- Location
- Omniverse #1345
If rihaku had answered anything but what he did about seeing inheritir again I'd be with stranglethorn first too!
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
Stranglethorn is honestly the most reasonable Defining Advancement we've seen so far, one penalty to a stat - even agility - compares favorably to stuff like Knight of Holly. But Hunger isn't facing reasonable challenges and its biggest advantage, the ability to establish himself, isn't relevant to the hurdles he's trying to clear. Immediate power is still the name of the game, though we can finally see the light at the end of tunnel Temple. Uttermost for its raw power or one of the Inheritor builds would be better. Maiming + Kinslayer's also quite strong, though it seems to have fallen behind.
Dark Abstraction
Infrequent Participant
- Location
- United States
I hadn't noticed that, actually. They neutralize the maluses, and still end up a net positive for growth. Very nice.
- Inheritor has a -10% malus to future Rank +'s, Stranglethorn has a +20% bonus to future Rank +'s
- Net +10% Rank +'s
- Inheritor gives +50% to user's highest Attribute +s (AGI if Unerring), Stranglethorn does -20% malus to AGI
- Net +30% to AGI +'s
Plus I'm interested in Vanrier, and I liked the commiseration he and Hunger felt. I'm not exactly thrilled with the premise of MUH ERII that will undoubtedly happen, but it's tolerable and I can always just vote to have Van GET IN THE
Behold my nigh-immediate betrayal of my previous betrayal!
[X] True Maiming
[X] Fierce Quickening
[X] The Ring of Power - Inheritor (3 picks, 2 Arete)
-[X] The Unerring
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I'll be honest, anytime I think about not voting Uttermost, i read the paragraph for it, and I lose all ability to resist. It's so damn cool.
Unerring does seem interesting though, does anyone know how the "training rank manually" might work? it's hard to imagine it being better than just some standard astral hunting, but who knows.
Unerring does seem interesting though, does anyone know how the "training rank manually" might work? it's hard to imagine it being better than just some standard astral hunting, but who knows.
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
That's not the case. Uttermost makes it so that every single slash and blade projection is a Fell Handed Stroke*. No arete expenditure needed.
*with no extra stamina expenditure and 10% chance of crit
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LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
The advantage of Uttermost over unerring is we can afford to take exhaustion without losing our combat effectiveness. Unerring doesn't get as much benefit from this since it can't use Thousand Cuts while exhausted.
- Location
- Pindorama
Come on guys, do it for Rage-chan! She's always been there with us, quietly supporting our suicidal charges through the Temple, and yet having to stay out of sight due to the cruelties of fate! She's never talked to her sempai once! Let's overturn fate, make sure this isn't a Bad End for her and give her the route she deserves! Only the, will the Golden Ending be achieved! Onwards, to the shining tomorrow!
ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
I feel like people are really being blinded by the stats here. Stats aren't everything, they don't give you new capabilities, just improve old ones. And we've had hints, like Hunger's internal monologue just last update, that our build is too linear. Too narrow.
Unerring,Uttermost, and Stranglethorn all double down on stuff we can already do, they don't increase versatility. Librarian does.
Furthermore, people are talking about how Unerring is limited to this update - so is Librarian. And while we have seen Agility gain abilities before, the only times we've seen a new magic system, they're always had low immediate power. Librarian is competitive in immediate power with Uttermost and Unerring.
When are we next going to see an option that substantially increased our versatility, and also has good immediate power? We could be giving away a one-time opportunity to increase our capabilities in a way that doesn't take a hit to our immediate power.
Unerring,Uttermost, and Stranglethorn all double down on stuff we can already do, they don't increase versatility. Librarian does.
Furthermore, people are talking about how Unerring is limited to this update - so is Librarian. And while we have seen Agility gain abilities before, the only times we've seen a new magic system, they're always had low immediate power. Librarian is competitive in immediate power with Uttermost and Unerring.
When are we next going to see an option that substantially increased our versatility, and also has good immediate power? We could be giving away a one-time opportunity to increase our capabilities in a way that doesn't take a hit to our immediate power.
Seeing how we almost die every time we get Rank the hard way, getting it through training will be worth it even if it is thirty times as slow or something.
Man, didn't expect to eat my words so soon and see a resurgence of Unerring, but seeing how it was my preferred option...
[X] True Maiming
[X] Fierce Quickening
[X] The Ring of Power - Inheritor (3 picks, 2 Arete)
-[X] The Unerring
Man, didn't expect to eat my words so soon and see a resurgence of Unerring, but seeing how it was my preferred option...
[X] True Maiming
[X] Fierce Quickening
[X] The Ring of Power - Inheritor (3 picks, 2 Arete)
-[X] The Unerring
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LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
I never liked Rage-chan to begin with!
ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
Exhaustion is actually really bad. It stops us from progressing for a week. Even with Uttermost we won't be able to handle the Middle Temple while exhausted. A week's worth of progression easily gets us enough buffs to offset the other complications, and in the long run when those complications are removed we come out ahead.
Exhaustion is therefore worse in the long term and is worse in the short term as well, since being exhausted is a much bigger debuff to our combat abilities then either of the other complications.
- Location
- The savanna.
Honestly don't give two shits about Van, I want to blow this place and go home. Form's been a decent hedge enabling our crazy decision making but it's served its purpose now. Not having used it is a good thing, guys. That shit costs Arete and Arete doesn't grow on trees, we're not some kind of fucking gardener. So yeah, sacrificing it and spending zero Arete to let us spam our ultimate attack? Hell yes. That's an amazing bargain.
We haven't even taken any +protection options beyond the basic Evening Sky at all, most of the downsides are irrelevant to us. Only upgrade I remember's Fall of Night, more pure offense. We're never gonna mitigate the Doom because it's not efficient, but we haven't seen a single damned Doom proc anyway. And you know who we just buffed, the social fu expert who can handle all our interaction issues with her increased app? Gisena.
Cut through, sword voters.
We haven't even taken any +protection options beyond the basic Evening Sky at all, most of the downsides are irrelevant to us. Only upgrade I remember's Fall of Night, more pure offense. We're never gonna mitigate the Doom because it's not efficient, but we haven't seen a single damned Doom proc anyway. And you know who we just buffed, the social fu expert who can handle all our interaction issues with her increased app? Gisena.
Cut through, sword voters.
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
Exhaustion is fine with Uttermost since we can use thousand cuts for free. We can alpha strike with it and then use Gisena to kite the enemy and remove their defenses while we just spam it over and over until they die.
Rihaku quotes for proof. We can fight at nearly full capability while exhausted because Fell handed stroke becomes free with Uttermost.
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I don't think fighting is a very restful activity, so it would count as an interruption and worsen our Exhaustion.
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
Doesn't matter since it doesn't slow Uttermost down at all. It's the only build that can do this and currently Lingering Exhaustion is the winning debuff.
ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
Look, does no one besides me care about versatility at all? Sword does not solve everything! It cannot get us strategic movement through teleportation, it does not help with social situations, it does not provide stealth, infiltration and information gathering capabilities, it can't create minions or support Gisena and Letrizia, it currently does not give us a way to target the mind and soul, and there's any number of other things it can't do.
Hunger was literally just talking about how his build is too linear, and you just go "MORE SORD?" When are we going to take a pick that expands what we are able to do?
The answer is never, because we've seen one option this entire damn quest that gets us expansive magical capabilities without paying for it dearly in lack of immediate power. And ya'll want to throw it away for combat buffs. We've seen combat buffs literally every vote for this entire quest. There will be more opportunities to get more SORD if that's what ya'll want. But if we decide we want versatility later we may not be able to get it without paying a high price, either in lots of Arete or in lack of immediate power. And lack of immediate power is often a death sentence in this quest.
Hunger was literally just talking about how his build is too linear, and you just go "MORE SORD?" When are we going to take a pick that expands what we are able to do?
The answer is never, because we've seen one option this entire damn quest that gets us expansive magical capabilities without paying for it dearly in lack of immediate power. And ya'll want to throw it away for combat buffs. We've seen combat buffs literally every vote for this entire quest. There will be more opportunities to get more SORD if that's what ya'll want. But if we decide we want versatility later we may not be able to get it without paying a high price, either in lots of Arete or in lack of immediate power. And lack of immediate power is often a death sentence in this quest.
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
If unerring takes Lingering Exhaustion it can't use Thousand Cuts or Form of Rage for at least a week. Uttermost doesn't even have to move to win a fight with Thousand cuts blade wind spam which costs no stamina to use. We can just get Gisena to piggyback us while we blast blade winds at things!
? It slows everyone down. Uttermost might be the least affected, but every build is taken out of commission for a week unless we want injuries to our soul in addition to everything else.
While perhaps not as knowledgeable as the Groundskeeper, remember that Vanreir was the First Blade of the Outriders. He's guaranteed to have tactically relevant intelligence we can capitalize on: the Middle Temple defenses, coordinator protocols, Gondar's abilities, all that good stuff. With True Maiming, we can rest and mine him for information, then get back to the grind with a new and improved Gisena at our side to clean up the Middle Temple. Exhaustion'll take longer, but the raw stats approach means it's less crippled by the inability to exert Pressure.
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
Uttermost preserves almost all of it's combat power despite being Exhausted, we could feasibly just keep fighting without letting it wear off if we wanted to. It's also the only build that can effectively fight back if they send an outrider or inner resident against us in the next week.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Please stop underestimating how bad exhausted is.
Dark Abstraction
Infrequent Participant
- Location
- United States
Oh, I didn't realize I copied Lingering Exhaustion instead of True Maiming. Fixed in my vote above.
True Maiming has a much shorter period of downtime (3 days for activity-induced injury malus to subside instead of the 7 days to remove Exhausted & additional 7 daysto remove Tired), which means we essentially get 6 more Apocryphal-free days to do...whatever. Grind astral beasts attacking Versh, visit the Encampment and pick up our groceries to feed Letrizia, shove Not!Narsil down some Temple-pleb's throat and make him yodel, etc.
True Maiming has a much shorter period of downtime (3 days for activity-induced injury malus to subside instead of the 7 days to remove Exhausted & additional 7 daysto remove Tired), which means we essentially get 6 more Apocryphal-free days to do...whatever. Grind astral beasts attacking Versh, visit the Encampment and pick up our groceries to feed Letrizia, shove Not!Narsil down some Temple-pleb's throat and make him yodel, etc.
- Location
- Pindorama
Man, despite Inheritance being ahead, we are actually really split between Librarian and Unerring, which mean Uttermost is winning against each individually. It'd be really good to consolidate on just one option, preferably Librarian!
There's a point where immediate, brute power isn't enough, and we are quite past that point. We've been fighting esoteric bullshit through brute force, and it frankly isn't enough. esoteric shit of our own would have been far more helpful against Vanreir than just more brute strength. We can't actually afford to bulldoze everything we come in contact to.
And we haven't had a Tyrant proc because we keep avoiding it. If we want to conquer the Human Sphere that's obviously not gonna be viable; especially with 30% less Charisma. And Gisena acting has a go between has limits; see the Ritual grounds where they discuss this. It's no replacement for actual Tyrant mitigation.
There's a point where immediate, brute power isn't enough, and we are quite past that point. We've been fighting esoteric bullshit through brute force, and it frankly isn't enough. esoteric shit of our own would have been far more helpful against Vanreir than just more brute strength. We can't actually afford to bulldoze everything we come in contact to.
Lol; taking this thread into account the crazy decision making is far from over. We're gonna need that seatbelt for a good while yet.
And we haven't had a Tyrant proc because we keep avoiding it. If we want to conquer the Human Sphere that's obviously not gonna be viable; especially with 30% less Charisma. And Gisena acting has a go between has limits; see the Ritual grounds where they discuss this. It's no replacement for actual Tyrant mitigation.
I wonder in which interpretation "fighting" isn't an interruption of rest.
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
I'm not Rihaku explicitly said Uttermost retains most of it's combat power while exhausted and if we won fights with an alpha strike we wouldn't even notice the difference.