Well, I hope your beliefs are justified if Uttermost manages to win. I for one am not counting on it though.

More pragmatically, the Forebear's Blade clearly has options that allow for SORD to apply to an increasingly wide domain of things and the Ring is sufficient versatility for me in its own right.

Mhm. I am just unwilling to take the "Can't mitigate Tyrant's Doom beyond it's initial" downside. I am perfectly fine with every other downside of any option. But that one sounds crippling for everyone who is going to need to do some serious social especially since it comes with charisma penalty. That's an very unfortunate combo.

Here's the thing: when did Odyssial ever bother with social? Trick question, he didn't. The closest he got was Presence: Intimidation. Otherwise, he just let his power do the talking for him. As a Progression-type Cursebearer, there's no reason we shouldn't follow in his footsteps. And with +++++++Willpower, we'll become much closer to that ideal.
 
Sky Abone Sky Reaction and Analysis. 1132 Words.


Oh shit, a Kong reference. This bodes ill tidings.

Hunger had an uneasy feeling as he carved through the legions of the Outer Temple, rushing headlong towards the Middle once more. He was making visible progress every day, growing in strength and proximity to the Imprisoned, but some ill premonition dogged him still, a feeling that, despite the life-and-death battles he'd participated in, the real challenge was still to come.

Focused exclusively on blood enhancement, his strength, speed, and regeneration all had increased prodigiously after the fight with the Archer, though his ranged attacks had benefited most of all. Now his blade-winds and projections struck with singing force, curving and dancing across the battlefield with easy fluidity, far less taxing to employ than before. With a substantial exertion of self, he could compress the power of his strikes even further, folding seven cuts into a single blow that would rend flesh and spirit alike.

Such power had served him well, rendering the entirety of the Outer Temple a trivial exercise, and yet...

So a summation of our current abilities and then deconstructing them. Another bad sign of our impending conflict.

The residents of the Middle Temple treated the Outer as nothing more than ablative armor, its autonomous armies culling the chaff from those unfortunates bound to the Temple's call. Any who made it to the Middle were controlled via carefully selected incentives, the carrot of bribery and the stick of the Outriders acting in concert to neuter the outsider threat. Even the weakest Outrider patrols seemed a match for the mightiest beasts of the Outer Temple.

If the Middle represented so great an increase in sophistication over the Outer, then what did that bode for the Ring's guardian itself? For all that his rate of progression had been absurd, was he growing strong enough, fast enough, in the fields that mattered against so versatile and well-resourced a foe? This was no single monster, to be baited and easily hunted. It was an entire civilization bent to the purpose of keeping their Ring imprisoned and extracting its value thereby. Was his own power too linear, too physically focused, to overcome them?

But for all that he could doubt his chances of success, there was no doubt as to his course of action. He would cut through, until the Ring was freed.

I never considered the Outer as a way to kill off the chaff, but I guess it makes sense as you don't want your outriders just gallivanting around killing overconfident randos. Though, this makes me wonder how the hell they are able to generate nigh endless amounts of guardians, and maintain the system that does it. The Magus hints that the Middle sends out people to maintain the system as there is no other reason why Middle denizens would be sent out. Though that is odd in the grand scheme of things as Soul Evocations are kinda random in manifestation so they can't be entirely reliant on them. Fairbright did hint to multiple magic systems so a they must be developing people able to repair, and maintain the defensive systems

Mid-morning saw him in the Middle Temple again, deep past the bucolic pastures of its outskirts and into civilization proper, densely-populated towns of high medieval architecture separated by sweeping, carefully regimented fields of crops. In the valley between two towns he spotted an ongoing battle: A one-armed swordsman in grey Outrider leathers against a figure clad in unadorned plate. It was going poorly for the latter, puncture holes dotting their torso, the heavy steel of their armor rent and ruptured around each exit wound.

Here we are, the showdown and our erstwhile ally. One thing to nite is that swordsman isn't equipped with appearance magic items aside from his sword, so that means they lack a system conductive to producing worthwhile magic items of this level consistently or the Inner denizens are hoarding them to themselves.

The swordsman spotted him out of the corner of his eye and swiftly attacked, jabbing with his blade in Hunger's direction. His movement was a blur even to the Cursebearer, and scarce had Hunger interposed the Evening Sky before it was pierced easily through, a wound sprouting across his lower torso. Whipping his cloak around he sprinted behind a nearby hill, blocking the swordsman's line of sight.

A perfect shot to the liver, punching clean through to daylight. Were it not for his Ring of Blood, it would quickly become a lethal wound. As it was, the relatively small cross-section of the attack meant it would only be the inconvenience of seconds. And yet there was no time to lose. Once the outrider dispatched his current opponent, Hunger would be next, and the enemy's incredible speed meant that pursuit would not favor him. What did he know so far? High physical parameters, already wounded, ranged thrust attacks with apparently infallible aim. His best solution was to meet offense with offense.

Of course he has some sort of ranged sword swing ability, practically everyone in anime has them once they are above a certain level. His aim though is actually amazing given that he's fighting another guy, and has swapped from what I assume to be a two handed swordsmanship style to a one handed one due to his injuries.

Did not expect Evening Sky to basically be paper against him, then again we really didn't upgrade the thing's defensive abilities at all. It does bode well that our healing is fast enough to trivialize organ wounds.

Wasting no further instants, he quickly leapt out from the hillside, launching a sevenfold blade projection directly at the swordsman as he charged. Eyes flickering briefly, the enemy intercepted his blade projection with one of his own, the thrust every bit the equal of the cut, spearing it in twain. Collapsed blade-force carved a meters-deep divot into the ground as the attack folded in on itself.

Hunger was already lunging, sword like a flickering thresher as he fired forward consecutive blade-winds, Ring of Blood flaring to exacerbate the outrider's wounds and repair his own. Without hesitation the swordsman turned to face him, effortlessly countering the swarm of blade-winds while a strategically placed thrust put a hole through Hunger's heart.

That might actually be a problem as our heart pumps the blood in our body and is vastly more significant to a fight than our liver.

A critical organ for most, but not for the bearer of the Blood Ring. Without so much as breaking stride Hunger continued brazenly forward, and the swordsman was forced to leap back in order to avoid a close-range grapple. At that moment the armored figure fired, its arm falling away to reveal a cannon-like apparatus before launching a thunderous salvo.

Never mind, so basically unless he has attacks that work via another attack vector than kinetic we should be fine, he probably does though as it wouldn't be a difficult fight if he couldn't do meaningful, and lasting damage as hinted form the Devasting Condition.

Though the Knight guy turns out to be a cyborg or android. I can see how he might be a R-Type. Being purely mechanical or made of magitech he simply needs to create new parts out of slain foes, that's actually pretty synergistic with our own method of advancement as we only take the spiritual. Unless or course, he needs both the physical and spiritual.

With unerring grace the outrider shifted in midair, blur of his sword a deflecting dance to answer the storm of bullets. Hunger joined in, charging again for the grapple, exerting the full power of his Ring to denude his enemy's blood in erratic, disorienting fits. At last the swordsman appeared to falter, but sensing a feint Hunger juked to the side in the moment before contact. Wisely so, as the outrider spun and thrust twice, displaying heretofore-unseen speed even as his blood was further suppressed. Light jabs both, but Hunger felt his eye put out all the same, and a corresponding groan from the armored figure.

Blind, but he still had his blood sense. No time for despair. And yet what could he do? The enemy was simply too fast, his reflexes too sharp, form and instincts impeccable, every attack landing exactly where it was placed. Desperately he exuded raw Pressure, sheer murderous intent, the cruel shining sun of his spirit blazing ceaselessly over his foe. At this finally the swordsman relented, reeling under that supernal might. For all his strength, there was a seam in this outrider's spirit, a thin dividing line that was only imperfectly sealed.

He lured us into a tempo where we remain complacent in, then he amped up the speed to surprise us to deal crippling wounds. This guy's very good at this!

Blood sense is great though and combined with Astral Rank we should be able to bypass need of mundane sight. Anyway, the other guy's partly mechanical so he can't be taken down this easily by loss of eyesight.

It's suprising he doesn't have a unlocked Astral Rank like us and instead only as a defensive one like Letrizia. Though this does fit with what Rihaku mentioned earlier in the thread.

The seam must be the thing joining the guy's father's soul to his. That's evident weak point we can exploit! And the source of his instability as the power isn't entirely his own. Didn't expect Astral Rank to let us see souls.

And yet, how to exploit this weakness? His uttermost extrusion of Pressure had given the man pause, but it was not feasible to continue for long. A spirit-rending attack could harm him for sure, but he had no way of targeting that specific fault-line, and no way to reliably land such an attack against an enemy of this speed. If he let up the pressure for even a moment, the outrider would have time enough to prepare a serious thrust targeting Hunger's brain, and that would be the death of this flesh body. His ghost form, bereft of blood to enhance, would be completely outclassed by this foe. Idly he noted that the armored figure, his erstwhile ally, had no blood at all.

Damn, even Ruin isn't enough even if we land a clean bow aye? That's a shame, along with the fact that our ally is as expected to be entirely mechanical so he can't be buffed or healed.

He felt more than heard that figure's next movement, steamroller charge of pure crushing force, fury and clangor like an ironworks onrushing. Hunger redoubled the expulsion of his Pressure, hollowing himself out, pinning-in-place the outrider by sheer verity of spirit. Even so, at the last moment he felt the enemy throw off his influence, violent force as the outrider's very soul seemed to nearly rupture in twain, one-half of it absorbing the brunt of his assault so that the other could go free.

This reminds me so much of Bleach with the spiritual pressure, and the Quest a Destiny of Strife where the main character who specializes in Spiritual pressure.

His abilitiy to have half of his soul take the hit is alarming as it means he basically has more than one health bar like us. Unlike us though, I don't believe losing half of his soul will give him a new Stage, and will most certainly screw up his fighting as suddenly his win soul or his dad's soul will pop.

There was a clap of thunder.

Blind and briefly spent, Hunger could barely react to the outside world as he marshaled his reserves once more. Through his bloodsense he saw the figure of the swordsman, blade outstretched, and heard the tinkling of armor plates falling to the ground.

Slowly his Ring's regeneration restored his sight. The swordsman was a ragged ruin, raw muscle and bone naked to the winds, blood dribbling and pooling from countless tears across his form. In the last instant he must have met the incoming armor with a counter-charge of his own, a full-bodied piercing lunge that cored out the mass of plate in a single fell stroke. Indeed, there was a swordsman-shaped exit blown out the back of the hulking machine, which now slowly toppled. Of course, such an attack left no protection for its executor against the terrible crushing momentum of the armored figure's charge.

Pretty brutal, though he's extremely physically annihilated as seen before his physical injuries don't really effect his fighting capabilities noticeably. That body change though is nasty though expected to bypass a machine's incredible amount of redundancies.

Panting, Hunger gave his opponent a nod of acknowledgement. He could respect the tenacity, the sheer force of will behind his unswerving technique.

Politely, the outrider inclined his own head. Neither had the strength in this moment to summon an attack capable of bringing his opponent low. Hunger could only hope that the Ring of Blood rejuvenated him faster than the swordsman adapted to his own wounds. Trauma that would have killed a normal man seemed to only briefly faze him. Under the influence of his Ring, very little blood now remained in the man's veins, but the outrider stood stoic and nearly upright, a blade bent but unbroken. And like a blade, chipped and marred, damage to his physical form would weaken, but fail to render useless, so long as the edge was sharp.

"Vanreir, Amarlt," said the outrider, breathing heavily still, his voice a whispery croak. "The strength, of your spirit, is commendable."

"The spirit," Hunger remarked, his breaths equally ragged, "is willing; but the flesh, is weak."

Vanreir raised his hand and waved it slightly, as if to say that he had seen worse.

Slowly, painfully, he turned his blade to face Hunger, its tip pointed unsteadily at his eye.

"I, regret, the necessity of this," he said, "but know, that it's for, a good cause."

Fighting through the exhaustion, Hunger took up his own stance, blade raised and poised to cut. The world contracted, static fuzzing in at the edges of his vision. He'd gone too far again, spent too much of his own essence pursuing an impossible feat. Still he dredged up what pitiful slivers remained, enough perhaps for one concerted attack.

Come on dialogue, we spent Two Arete on you don't let us down! Stall him so he can die of blood loss or have him join us!

"I understand," Hunger said, steadying his blade. "Cut through, even if it cannot be cut. It must be quite the cause."

The swordsman frowned, eyes sharp. "You..."

Sensing an opening, a moment of weakness, Hunger still did not strike. He allowed his opponent to gather his thoughts.

"Hmph," Vanreir shook his head. "What are the chances... my father once said something very similar. I'm not one to believe in fate, but I'm glad you were my final opponent. A worthy enemy can be rarer than even a true friend."

"Well said," Hunger replied, idly scanning the battlefield. He raised his hand, setting his opponent's heart to beating, restoring some volume of Vanreir's blood. "Shall we decide properly which of our swords is the greater?"

"If you wish," Vanreir said, with the air of a man granting a final request. Hunger circled around to a particular point on the battlefield, matching the angle of his initial entry, where the sun fell in neither swordsman's eyes. Slowly he raised his blade aloft, jewel on his finger grim and subdued. The pallor of mortality was like a shadow across the battlefield. Each man knew that this moment could be his last.

Aye, two people finding a bond and connection on the battlefield on opposing sides! But, wait he isn't letting us go or joining us?!

Vanreir walked to match him, taking up the stance of his signature thrust. Now within melee range, tip of his blade aimed squarely at Hunger's brain pan, the crystal-steel edge caught and splintered the sun's rays, a daytime thunderbolt.

Enough of sword-projections. An opponent such as this deserved the physical blade.

On the same count they inhaled. An unspoken understanding passed between them. Time compressed, congealed, folded over on itself like molten amber. On came the thrust, that viperous lash of silver like lightning made steel. Hunger's blade descended, but slowly, far too slowly to land any serious blow. By the time Amarlt's thrust loomed before him, his hand had managed only to interpose itself between the enemy's sword and his own head.

There was a clang of steel against silver, a clarion note of pure deflection. The Forebear's Blade fell from nerveless fingers.

Oh shit, come on arm of ours block the hit!

Like an inverse kingfisher Amarlt was pointed skywards, his blade thrusting forwards and up, the all-piercing force of his strike no match for the indestructible Ring in its path, which had been bound to Hunger's finger by the Accursed himself. Hunger pressed downwards with his right foot, titanic strength collapsing the weakened ground around the divot that his very first blade-projection had created.

Falling rapidly, the bones of his hand a shattered ruin, the Foebear's Blade was level now with his mouth. Snatching it in his teeth, he fired a single blade-projection, one last absolute exertion. Committed still to his thrust, Vanreir could not change his trajectory. Cleanly bisected, chest from sternum, still his arms and eyes and blade could only face up, up, up: turned forever heavenward, as if to pierce through the sky itself.

The Ring blocked it?!

But there was always a sky above the sky. One could pierce for all eternity without finding its limit.

Age and treachery had prevailed again, though victory tasted like ashes in his mouth. Slowly he examined the Ring, its jewel flaring crimson, the pulse of its inhalation drawing a thundering sea of power.

Jewel and band and finger all were whole and untouched. Of Vanreir Amarlt's final attack, no evidence remained, not even so much as a scratch.

Bruh, playing the villain is kinda amazing though it's sad that we weren't able to finish him off with our sword itself, but had to do it with a Blade Wind.

[ ] Punctured Soul - Rank reduced by 10%, physical attributes by 20%, mental attributes by 30%, and social attributes by 40% for 1 month.

[ ] True Maiming - Liver wounded on a metaphysical level. Permanently reduce CON and CON improvements by 10% and suffer 400% increased vulnerability to poison and supernatural disease. Suffer severe damage upon strenuous exertion for the next three days.

[ ] Lingering Exhaustion - Exhausted for a week and Tired for the week after. Any interruption of rest may worsen Exhaustion.

What fresh hell is this?! All of them except for True Maiming last longer than the Apocrypal quelling. I can already tell the voting won't be fun for this. Hopefully the picks we get are worth it.

We can't take Lingering Exhaustion as we must increase in power and freaking ourscale Ber. Even with the exhaustion mitigation that we have it won't be entirely enough to to fend off him, that's not to mention any other Apocyphal summoned foes.

The True Maiming is actually insane as I'm sure as hell that Apocryphal will send enemies filling those exact conditions after our ass. Plus its a permanent debuff! Though it does let us fight within 4 days.

Punctured Soul is crippling as well but atleast we can go back to the grind pretty much immediately, though the harm to our mental capabilities are significant.

[ ] The Ring of Power - Inheritor (3 picks, 2 Arete)

He whose soul contains multitudes, may inherit the legacy of those fallen.

Defining Advancement. You may only have three Defining Advancements.

*Choose one Soul Evocation user you have slain. You may use their Soul Evocation at a substantial fraction of the original wielder's skill. Apply [To Shatter Heaven] to their Soul Evocation, but gain fragments of their selfhood.
*+50% to the value of that user's highest Attribute +s.
*+50% the value of that user's second highest Attribute +s.
*-10% to the value of future Rank +s, but you may train Rank manually.
*++Mental Contamination from the user you target. Their soul lives on as your prisoner.
*Available Evocations: The Librarian. The Correspondent. The Unerring.

This is actually pretty crazy. We get to keep a soul around to take advantage of its powers! Though that mental contamination is worry we already have Heartlessness, so the more the merrier! Not sure why we were given the Archer's Soul and powers given that he's alive, but we take those!

The stat boosts and the Evocation itself are a extremely potent boost. We can take the Magus for spells, the Archer's for spatial distortion, or we can get Attacks that don't miss!

[ ] Feat: Kinslayer - A true opponent's worth. Set Rank to 5. (4 picks)

Simple, yet effective. Don't think it's gonna win given the other options, but the thread surprised me before with Rank picks.

[ ] Forebear's Blade - Uttermost (4 picks)

Focus beyond absolute focus. To cut what cannot be cut. To pierce what cannot be pierced. To go further and even further beyond in the unrelenting pursuit of perfection. To exert every iota of self, turn every faculty of purpose, bind every testament of will towards a single, unswerving ideal: that is what it means to do one's uttermost. There are no compromises for he who walks the path of the blade.

Do, even if it cannot be done.

Defining Advancement. You may only have three Defining Advancements.

Cannot mitigate the Doom of the Tyrant beyond its original state
Expends and sacrifices the Form of Rage
Increase by 30% the value of all Rank +s
Reduce by 30% to the value of Luck, Protection, Wisdom and Charisma +s
+++++++Willpower, ++All Other Stats
First Blade: Restores the Forebear's Blade. Apply the effects of the Fell-Handed Stroke, including modifiers, to all basic attacks with no surcharge. You may upgrade [A Thousand Cuts] to [Cut Through] for the difference in their Arete costs.

So pure tyrant? This is pretty amazing given that we got confirmation that we won't lose stats from our base. We even get to apply our ultimate move to our basic attacks! We can even buy a EFB at a discount.
 
Mhm. I am just unwilling to take the "Can't mitigate Tyrant's Doom beyond it's initial" downside. I am perfectly fine with every other downside of any option. But that one sounds crippling for everyone who is going to need to do some serious social in the future, especially since it comes with charisma penalty. That's an very unfortunate combo.

Realistically speaking though, how much mitigation were you going to get on Tyranny anyway? And would you guys have actually picked it over the more-efficient alternates?

@Rihaku How "permanent" is the liver damage? Is it "merely" on-par with our current losses of an eye/arm/lung, and thus recoverable with appropriate options, or is it more like sacrificing an eye to Rune King and thus irrecoverable barring much greater advancements?

It's slightly easier to heal than Tyrant-inflicted wounds, so a 3-pick would likely be able to do it after a few months, or an EFB-equivalent for free in the long term. I'd expect it to hang around at least for several months barring a specialized EFB-equivalent.

Don't be Vanreir, who failed to Cut Through. Embrace R A N K so you always have a way to Rank Through!

Vanreir wasn't even trying to cut, man.
 
[X] Forebear's Blade - Uttermost (4 picks)
[X] True Maiming


So here are my thoughts on this vote.

I think that narratively things can perform far and away above expectations. What I mean by this is the next time we're facing down some supermassive foe, I want this to be a paragraph on it's own.

"Cut, even if it cannot be cut"

The next time Rihaku needs an explanation for how we dredge up the Leviathan itself?

"Fish, even if it cannot be Fished"

The next time we're cast into the abyss in a universe with only us in it?

"Freedom, even if you cannot be Free"

As you can see, this gives us license to deus ex machina out of anything! Just think of the creative license you are giving yourself by breaking free the confines of reality and limits!

Tactics votes will never be the same friends, I guarantee it! with your vote today, you can be part of the solution for tomorrow!
 
It's slightly easier to heal than Tyrant-inflicted wounds, so a 3-pick would likely be able to do it after a few months, or an EFB-equivalent for free in the long term. I'd expect it to hang around at least for several months barring a specialized EFB-equivalent.

Hmm, then yeah, I'm very sure I prefer True Maiming to the other downsides. It'll be an extra incentive to get the thread to focus on getting Ruling Ring!
 
And yet you have elected to dodge my points. Again - Level 10 Rank maps to level 15 Cultivator, and difference two Ranks is "overwhelming" - for reference, Vanreir was overwhelming opponent.

Let's say Kinslayer is not the strongest "short term", sure. Who cares about single data point? With another pick we get War which is another massive upgrade, and we have excellent upgrade path that ends up with EFB without having to spend 18 Arete on being poor man's Arthur Drake. No need to get mental contamination either.

With Kinslayer now and Dominion next hunt we are looking at almost 1 Rank difference in fight.

Can someone explain where this "Rank is useless in combat" thing came from? Did people just forget entire thing with Ber and Letrizia getting wounded?
 
More pragmatically, the Forebear's Blade clearly has options that allow for SORD to apply to an increasingly wide domain of things and the Ring is sufficient versatility for me in its own right.



Here's the thing: when did Odyssial ever bother with social? Trick question, he didn't. The closest he got was Presence: Intimidation. Otherwise, he just let his power do the talking for him. As a Progression-type Cursebearer, there's no reason we shouldn't follow in his footsteps. And with +++++++Willpower, we'll become much closer to that ideal.
The difference is we are not Odyssial, not even close. And he had Lea for that shit, I believe she even got him to be somewhat better at social in Most High during the prologue.

We on the other hand are not him. And Tyrant's doom is far more crippling.
 
Cut through is actually harder to get then Ruling Ring, since it cannot be bought piecemeal, and we'd have to save up 18 Arete. That's not going to happen with our spending habits.

Furthermore, I personally am much more opposed to Cut Through then to Ruling Ring.
We managed to get 15.60 arete before; 18 is realistic with good thread activity considering Cut Through does not have an ominously vague blurb about further hardships like RR. Just pure power to survive. Arguments about how the Ruling Ring is better than Cut Through fail to reach when the thread is entirely unwilling to actually get it. We had been there, we had a vote, ringbros fought, they failed hard.

I see entirely no point in any build that does not plan in absolutely exploding in power in foreseeable future. The curve of resistance build-up gets only steeper as we penetrate deeper into the temple, and short-term "gotta survive next fight" options are not keeping up. We are going to die if we keep playing this stupid game and winning these stupid prises.
 
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Let's say Kinslayer is not the strongest "short term", sure. Who cares about single data point? With another pick we get War which is another massive upgrade, and we have excellent upgrade path that ends up with EFB without having to spend 18 Arete on being poor man's Arthur Drake. No need to get mental contamination either.

Pssh. Cut Through represents access to echelons of power that Arthur, bless his well-meaning heart, couldn't even conceive of!
 
Oh shit. Considering Arthur had access to the conceptual power of the Monarch, that means Cut Through might actually represent access to tier 3 power. That would actually be more powerful than Rank (heresy, I know, but its true!) which is only tier 2. If we could apply that effect to all of our attacks at zero cost with First Blade, we'd be able to shred our way through this world so long as we just kept grabbing +STATS.

As usual, we should've been asking ourselves "What Would the Forebear Do?" all along. SORD voters, this could be your finest hour.
 
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I'm a big fan of immediate physical power/parameters -- despite the fact that everyone we've faced has been a soul evocation user (and thus been unable to use Rank offensively, and with a penalty defensively), it doesn't seem to have been as important as our actual physical stats. Moreover, since it doesn't seem like folks are willing to pick Vanreir:

[X] Lingering Exhaustion
[X] Forebear's Blade - Uttermost (4 picks)
I mean, I'm willing to vote for him, but @ImperatorV is making some excellent arguments for Librarian. I'd be half-willing to bet that Librarian gives some bonuses to Martial Stances, too - that seems like the sort of indexed, cereberal neatness that combos well.
This is somewhat missing the point of those individuals' concerns for opposing given options, because all those things are an absolute must; they are simply an absolute must in relation to what I mentioned above; what aesthetics and thematics are important to a given participant. It really comes down to subjective taste, and what you, or another participant ,might call an advantageous or narratively enticing quality another participant might call anathematic to their enjoyment. That can't be argued objectively because individual preference is not grounded in logic
I mean, it absolutely is grounded in logic. It just isn't grounded in fully-shared values.
Honestly, I'd quite like to see a new-school-storygame-styled Rihakuquest, where we get to enjoy his prose and lore and general excellent ideas, but our choices are all focused on those aesthetics and thematics. It's just easier to care about them than the opaque, high-crunch mechanics which we can't really dollcraft with.
(I've just realized that a Rihaku-System RP would also be pretty cool.)
 
If any of you out there are willing to accept this offer of opposing Stranglethorn with your fan works and enable us to win I will on three separate occasions use my fan works to support what you want. This will be a Reaction and Analysis for each occasion, and probably one or two 500+ word omakes for specific ones. If we lose I will still support one of your votes.
 
And yet you have elected to dodge my points. Again - Level 10 Rank maps to level 15 Cultivator, and difference two Ranks is "overwhelming" - for reference, Vanreir was overwhelming opponent.

Let's say Kinslayer is not the strongest "short term", sure. Who cares about single data point? With another pick we get War which is another massive upgrade, and we have excellent upgrade path that ends up with EFB without having to spend 18 Arete on being poor man's Arthur Drake. No need to get mental contamination either.

With Kinslayer now and Dominion next hunt we are looking at almost 1 Rank difference in fight.

I very much doubt that a rank of 5.5 is enough for us to overwhelm the Temple. If it is, I feel like Rihaku would have mentioned it by now.

Rank can get us advantages, but so can literally every other option we can take. I don't believe more rank can solve as many of our problems as Librarian can. I'll grant you I like rank better then Uttermost and Stranglethorn, but I'm arguing for my first pick here.

We managed to get 15.60 arete before; 18 is realistic with good thread activity. Arguments about how the Ruling Ring is better than Cut Through fail to reach when the thread is entirely unwilling to actually get it. We had been there, we had a vote, ringbros fought, they failed hard.

I see entirely no point in any build that does not plan in absolutely exploding in power in foreseeable future. The curve of resistance build-up gets only steeper as we penetrate deeper into the temple, and short-term "gotta survive next fight" options are not keeping up. We are going to die if we keep playing this stupid game and winning these stupid prises.

The Ring enthusiasts lost once, and now you act like they will always lose forever? That's a take. Furthermore, Uttermost is not the option of "absolutely exploding in power," It's even with both of the competitive Inheritor choices in power! Also, Inheritor grants us another magic system that we can use to scale up in power, Uttermost gets us the ability to obtain an EFB in around 7 updates if we don't spend Arete at all (which is both greedy and unlikely to occur). Uttermost does not have any great advantage in power!
 
We managed to get 15.60 arete before; 18 is realistic with good thread activity. Arguments about how the Ruling Ring is better than Cut Through fail to reach when the thread is entirely unwilling to actually get it. We had been there, we had a vote, ringbros fought, they failed hard.

Eh, the situational was not optimal to pursue the Ring at that point. I believe the general sentiment is still that the thread is aiming for Ruling Ring in the mid term.

The difference is we are not Odyssial, not even close. And he had Lea for that shit, I believe she even got him to be somewhat better at social in Most High during the prologue.

We on the other hand are not him. And Tyrant's doom is far more crippling.

The power of Progression is an advantage far greater than even a Solar Exaltation, however...
 
I mean, I'm willing to vote for him, but @ImperatorV is making some excellent arguments for Librarian. I'd be half-willing to bet that Librarian gives some bonuses to Martial Stances, too - that seems like the sort of indexed, cereberal neatness that combos well.

I'm glad someone is reading those long arguments. Sometimes I feel a bit like I'm shouting into a void. I get more responses when I directly reply to people, but honestly that's starting to feel confrontational and I'm getting increasingly uncomfortable with it.
 
The Ring enthusiasts lost once, and now you act like they will always lose forever? That's a take.
I act as if they will fail to actually acquire the Ring before the end of the Temple, which is I reasonably believe to be true. The ominous warnings are always going to be there, resistance against the Ring is always going to be desperate, the argument that we need immediate power not progression is going to pop with every ever-more-desperate fight until we are strong enough to not need it... And we are just going to die before getting there, lol.
Furthermore, Uttermost is not the option of "absolutely exploding in power,"
Please. Although even Rihaku considers it as a competitive build in terms of immediate power, I speak about EFB. No other viable build at this point actually sets us on the path to the humongous power leap that is Combat-oriented EFB, only an immediate power boost with zero concerns for the future.
Eh, the situational was not optimal to pursue the Ring at that point. I believe the general sentiment is still that the thread is aiming for Ruling Ring in the mid term.
The threat judges the value of the options presented based on their beliefs; with what I saw of the thread, "mid term" is hopelessly far away. It is an entire Moon Temple away from us, which might as well be infinity.
 
Rank massively buffs Gisena. As some might remember, we recently purchased STATS for her, which get amplified further by our blood buffs. Having massive increase in power of Rank would amplify this even more, to obvious effect. Likewise, you might remember that more Rank is key to unlocking more of her Grace. Finally, you also might remember that Gisena can lower Rank of our opponents, increasing Rank disparity, and thus the power of our build.

So synergy town all around. Likewise, Kinslayer would make us better at healing Verse; thus, we might get to the point where Letrizia can fully meld with Verse, bringing our party to tip top shape.

Who knows, maybe we can then fight all together rather than rushing in on our lonesome?
 
[X] True Maiming
[X] Feat
: Kinslayer

Kinslayer goes by far the best with going for a Full Ring Build - We'll be at Astral Rank 5, and can bump that up to 5.5 with Domain + Preeminence War, which is an immediate and powerful synergy. True Maiming is the least damaging condition in the immediate short term, and vanishes completely when we attain Ruling Ring.

With this build, our ability to heal using the Chief Domain rises sharply, so we'll be able to perform significant healing on Vers. That'll provide protection during the three days we'll need to spend away from strenuous activity. Afterwards, we'll be in an excellent position to gather strength, since we'll have a peer-level combatant in Gisena, and we can easily take a breather from the Temple and grind on the Astral Beasts Vers attracts.
 
Yes, considering how value of every Rank increase only ever increases, the static value of that +0.5 Rank is going to be incredibly hefty at Rank 5. Combined with healing Versch and buffing Gisena, I consider it to have the most immediate value out of immediate value options, which makes it the other acceptable option of the bunch to me.
 
I act as if they will fail to actually acquire the Ring before the end of the Temple, which is I reasonably believe to be true. The ominous warnings are always going to be there, resistance against the Ring is always going to be desperate, the argument that we need immediate power not progression is going to pop with every ever-more-desperate fight until we are strong enough to not need it... And we are just going to die before getting there, lol.

I'm curious - what makes you think Cut Through will be any better?

Preeminence, at least, gets us some immediate benefit for our Arete. And once the first Preeminence is obtained, arguing for the second is much easier - we're so close, after all! But for Cut Through, we'd need to save up 18 Arete, and the primary argument against Heedless War (it's too greedy) applies even more so to Cut Through, which gets us no benefits in the short term, while Preeminence does in fact get us some!

In short, if you think Ruling Ring will always lose, you have no reason to vote for Cut Through. It's even less likely to win.
 
Yeah, I think it's time for me to give up Inheritance: Unerring as Librarian isn't something I want.
[X] True Maiming
[X] Hunger - Stranglethorn
 
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