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A Simple Transaction I

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Dark Abstraction said:
As a reminder so people don't forget, the Apocryphal Curse scales threats to Hunger at his optimal capabilities and Rank, and does not factor in conditions like being Exhausted or temporarily crippled when producing those threats.
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Honestly is Rank a safe choice regardless of the curse? We're given a platter of options that are relevant to our power level. If we're rank 5 when picking the most dangerous option instead of the most dangerous option offered to us as rank 4.5 all that means is our companions/earlier picks are less able to help. It's good in terms of climbing up in the world sim, not good in terms of our personal EXP curve or enemies that are scaled to us.
 
Dark Abstraction said:
If you select True Maiming you are permanently introducing a crippling weakness into all our Forms (remember how much you all went REEEE about adding blood to the Final Form because it had the potential to be a weakness? This isn't just potential, and it's far more deleterious).
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I'm fairly certain it is only permanent in the sense that it requires significant force to heal it.

As Hunger's missing arm, eye, and lung are permanent. Yet we've had options to repair two of them outright, and the complete ring should be able to repair all three.
 
LordOfMurder said:
Punctured soul isn't actually that damaging to our combat abilities. If we take uttermost, a 10% penalty to rank and a 20% penalty to physical stats pale in comparison to a 500% increase in combat power.

You should probably pick someone who ranked not dying first in their priority list if that's whats important to you!
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I myself did that, and look where that's gotten me!
 
LordOfMurder said:
You should probably pick someone who ranked not dying first in their priority list if that's whats important to you!
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I ended up doing exactly that in the end after I realised how empty my days would become without being able to pour all my time into this quest. If nothing else, you can trust me to do my utmost to avoid that existential dread again!
 
[X] Lingering Exhaustion
[X] Hunger - Stranglethorn (4 picks)

Kinslayer is really, really good. I'm pretty confident that out of the three 4-pick options it's the most powerful, granting almost an order of magnitude of power. It's a bad pick with exhaustion though. If it becomes clear that voters want to be permanently damaged I'll swap over to it.

Uttermost just isn't very good. So what, it unlocks a 25 arete option? We've already spent 1 arete to keep Once and Future as an option, and we're slowly plugging away at the ring, last thing we need is YET ANOTHER 25 option. Plus it eats rage, nerfs 4 stats, blocks tyrant mitigation, and the only growth ability it grants is the +30% rank. No, it's a bad pick. Rihaku feel free to post the wording for Cut Through, I promise you I won't be impressed.

Finally, stranglethorn. It doubles 3 stats, boosts rank a respectable amount, and gives a neat ability. The lost agility is unfortunate, but 20% is really not that bad, and easily offset by the other bonuses.
 
TBH I'd be entirely fine with Uttermost; a discounted EFB is pretty much the exact thing we need to actually break the Temple and it's gradually rising danger levels.

Ofc, I'd rather prefer if the EFB was One and Future or The Ring, but you gotta take what you can actually get.
 
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runeblue360 said:
I ended up doing exactly that in the end after I realised how empty my days would become without being able to pour all my time into this quest. If nothing else, you can trust me to do my utmost to avoid that existential dread again!
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I genuinely rushed towards the bottom of the update to see if we had died horribly. The update title didn't exactly help...
 
Dark Abstraction said:
As a reminder so people don't forget, the Apocryphal Curse scales threats to Hunger at his optimal capabilities and Rank, and does not factor in conditions like being Exhausted or temporarily crippled when producing those threats.
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We can outscale it to some degree; but this is a great argument for Exhausted + Stranglethorn in my opinion. Exhausted doesn't affect stats and we will have only two days when it can hit us while Tired; as opposed to ~20 days for Punctured Soul and "for the foreseeable future" for True Maiming's poison and disease. If you want to maximize safety it seems like the best combo. It's just the one that wastes the most time comparatively; and we may not want to face an Apocryphal-boosted Inner Temple; which is definitely an argument for True Maiming...

Shit, now I'm torn again. Continue power grinding now with a penalty and a future weakness against Apocryphal later vs a two-weak break and turning on Apocryphal here in the Temple. It's a hard choice.
 
If we pick Exhaustion, we should get Stranglethorn, since it allows us to be competitive even without Rank! If we pick the other two, I think Rank should be the optimal pick? Unless Stranglethorn idk i'm indecisive
 
[X] True Maiming
[X] Forebear's Blade - Uttermost (4 picks)

Rare pick? Fuck yeah, no way should we spend these choices getting shit we can pick up elsewhere. Hunger's liver may be maimed but this fixes a way more crucial part of him: the Forebear's Blade.
 
I want to get Vanreir or Stranglethorn. Scratch that, I just want Vanreir. I like the guy, and his sister needs protecting now that he's gone.
Do it for Best Boy! And also stats and aimbotting!
[X] Inheritor: Unerring
[X] Fierce Vigor

No vote on the Complication - Punctured Soul is probably not wise, and True Maiming is concerning, but Lingering Exhaustion is terrible indeed.
I should really go to bed now, but expect omake and/or picture spam.
 
George said:
To some degree yes, but we have been told we can out-Progress it
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We've picked the dangerous trap option for great rewards, picked the option risky enough that it literally gave us a 'I am the danger' mindset, picked multiple fights that have killed us once and gotten within spitting distance of killing us a second time, gotten into a fight where without help we'd have lost no less than four distinct times and still almost lost regardless, and decided not slow and instead go towards the strongest opponent we had available instead of buffing the rest of our party or hunting things without a chance to leave us with permanent injury we can't heal with our three different healing sources.

We can out progress it, but do you think our bevvy of red options has already/is there a point where you can imagine us doing so in the near future/is there a criteria where you'd be satisfied as us having done so?
 
Based on the estimate of where we are on the power level of the Temple (I don't think his dad was a scrub among the inners based on the backstory even if he wasn't top of the heap) Exhausted might actually be workable, we'd have two or so days after it to try to grab whatever else we could get from the middle layer before Apocryphal reactivates, which would probably put us at a respectable tier among the inner power level. Seems feasible that's scaled enough it might not be our doom if it starts throwing inner complications at us at this point.
 
Think about how Stranglethorn will let us chill out, and just be thick as fuck! We'll manage being Exhausted for the first week and casually farm the Outer Temple for scrub amounts of XP, and then manage minimal exertions of Rank coupled with Gisena's beefy arms to handle the rest of the Apocryphal procs!
 
Enohthree said:
We've picked the dangerous trap option for great rewards, picked the option risky enough that it literally gave us a 'I am the danger' mindset, picked multiple fights that have killed us once and gotten within spitting distance of killing us a second time, gotten into a fight where without help we'd have lost no less than four distinct times and still almost lost regardless, and decided not slow and instead go towards the strongest opponent we had available instead of buffing the rest of our party or hunting things without a chance to leave us with permanent injury we can't heal with our three different healing sources.

We can out progress it, but do you think our bevvy of red options has already/is there a point where you can imagine us doing so in the near future/is there a criteria where you'd be satisfied as us having done so?
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I have utterly no idea! All I know is Rihaku claimed we could, so the scaling is a bit more complicated than just our power.
 
Dark Abstraction said:
As a reminder so people don't forget, the Apocryphal Curse scales threats to Hunger at his optimal capabilities and Rank, and does not factor in conditions like being Exhausted or temporarily crippled when producing those threats.
  • If you select Lingering Exhaustion, do not support the 0.7 Rank increase - it compounds danger and is anti-synergistic
  • If you select Punctured Soul, you are selecting an option with a very long period to "wait it out", so you are committing to taking your dick out of the blender and going on a short vacation to rejuvenate yourself before going back into the office.
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Follow-up:

Punctured Soul is the best option for the purposes of recuperation, provided we actually take a break.

Lingering Exhaustion makes us Exhausted. No shit. But it means we lost our ability to use Pressure for an extended period of time; we're gonna be sitting with Gisena and Letrizia and Vershlengorge outside for awhile, and we will have no capacity to meaningfully contribute to any issues tat might come up or act meaningfully regarding the Temple.

Punctured Soul lasts awhile but it does not make us Exhausted. Our Pressure will be 10% less effective, but we'll be able to use it. Which means we can use it to heal Vershlengorge to Rank 5. (Provided the thread doesn't decide we should be idiots and choose not to heal him. It's a hard sell, we are idiots. But we'll have to act against our nature, just this once.)

This is important.

Because if we take the Rank gain, we grow to Rank 5. And when we put Punctured Soul's effect into the mix, that means that Hunger is actually Rank 4.5 - that's still higher than our current 4.3 Rank. This means we can have Hunger act in conjunction with a Letrizia-piloted Vershlengorge to fight the accordingly stronger Astral Beasts that attack (a method of farming one-off threats for Rank and Arete; one that doesn't involve fighting the coordinated efforts of the Middle Temple's civilization).

And yes, as people will say, Punctured Soul lasts longer than our period without Apocryphal. But it also means that when Apocryphal is up, it is going to be operating off the parameters of a Rank 5 Hunger even though he's effectively Rank 4.5; but lest we forget, we'll have a Rank 5 Vershlengorge as well.

Yes, this does really, really, really emphasize that point. That's deliberate. Hunger cannot continue to carry this party.

Hunger cannot continue to carry this party.

Hunger cannot continue to carry this party.

Hunger cannot continue to carry this party.
 
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My assumption is if we haven't outscaled Apocryphal for awhile we're just screwed. Because this progression rate has been absurd and absurdly risky.
 
Do keep in mind that our build is currently less than optimal. We can out-scale the temple, we are a progression type Curseberar. There is nothing on the multiverse that we can't, eventually, outscale. The thing is: How long it takes to do so, and if we can survive until then.
 
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George said:
I have utterly no idea! All I know is Rihaku claimed we could, so the scaling is a bit more complicated than just our power.
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On the flip side, taking every red option with no end goal is unsustainable. If we had more room to breath we could have had Gisena reduce it by an extra 10% which is just bonkers. But we couldn't because we needed might in the short term.
 
[X] Forebear's Blade - Uttermost

I'm not going to pretend this is the best option, but thematically speaking, I really like this ability as the result of our fight against the Unerring Blade. Not being able to mitigate the Tyrant hurts, but the sheer power offered by this ability is pretty great and I like the idea of strengthening our willpower to the uttermost limits.

We fought an overwhelmingly powerful enemy so let's take the greatest reward we can from overcoming him. The power to Cut Through even that which cannot be cut.

Also, sick blurbs man :V

Rihaku said:
I actually can't post the wording for Cut Through because it would definitely skew the votes. I can't even hint at it...
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Like I said, sick blurbs. :V And isn't that the real reason we play in Rihaku quests?
 
BrainInAJar said:
I'm kind of torn because I want Stranglethorn more than ever since we are leaning into the whole "Age and Treachery" thing super hard; but I think it's terrible with True Maiming; the winning complication right now. I feel it's best taken with Lingering Exhaustion since that doesn't affect Stats. But for maiming it's anti-synergistic and anything would be better in my view.
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If a build component becomes overwhelmingly popular, the condition component would naturally alter in votes to complement it! Have faith in the voters for these direct one-vote synergies!

Fumbles said:
I like the businesslike strike of a shot to the liver, but I wonder at the choice. Who dies when you stab their liver, but not their heart or brain? Is Hunger actually a bit evasive, did the Evening Sky occlude his target, or has Mr. Amarlt been doing target practice with Imperia, and found himself unable to pierce that diamond heart?
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He has to 'lock on' to the part in question first, and that takes extra time, so usually he just picks the nearest vital organ to where he's currently looking. The most crucial element is speed, after all!

Fumbles said:
You know, I really don't know how or why his physical attributes are so formidable.
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Soul Evocations have a number of ways to grant physical stats! His in particular grants enormous amounts of AGI when properly developed. Kind of like a Lunar Exalt!

Fumbles said:
Something to remember, though. Hunger's power has influence, his desire alone impacts the world, and it is an asset in battle as well as outside of it. Not just another stat stick to hit people with.
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This was actually a combined CHA + Rank social attack!

Fumbles said:
are you sure hunger didn't grab Master Baiter?
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His right arm IS much larger than his left...

Dark Abstraction said:
As a reminder so people don't forget, the Apocryphal Curse scales threats to Hunger at his optimal capabilities and Rank, and does not factor in conditions like being Exhausted or temporarily crippled when producing those threats.
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Hunger is outscaling the Apocryphal right now, though that may not be the case down the line. I don't know how sustainable 50-500% growth per day is, though...

vali said:
Uttermost just isn't very good. So what, it unlocks a 25 arete option? We've already spent 1 arete to keep Once and Future as an option, and we're slowly plugging away at the ring, last thing we need is YET ANOTHER 25 option. Plus it eats rage, nerfs 4 stats, blocks tyrant mitigation, and the only growth ability it grants is the +30% rank. No, it's a bad pick. Rihaku feel free to post the wording for Cut Through, I promise you I won't be impressed.
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Sorry bub, you're gonna have to bring the actual Mondo Bait for that one.
 
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