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A Simple Transaction I

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So, tactics!

I don't see the angle for diplomacy. Maybe we try to express how our situations mirror one-another, maybe we reveal we're here to get stronger so we can protect those we care for, and he does the same, in the opposite direction?
Poor odds indeed!

Fighting, we obviously will be getting stabbed, the question is what do we have to lose and what do we not have to lose?
The only thing I can think of is to try and steer the wound as we did in Age and Treachery. We have a bum lung just like he does. It's also pointless to protect with evening sky, better to save the mantle for his lesser strikes (if he even does lesser strikes) and take the thrust head-on. I think it unlikely that it could reduce such a penetrating attack, more likely that we would lose its protection for little gain.

The odd fusion of souls he's working with is outside Blood's domain, but his gradual diminishing might not be. Not exactly a revolutionary note, since we're going to be debuffing him regardless.

The moment immediately preceding the blow seems like his only real vulnerability. Unless we've somehow found a companion even tankier than we are, we should coordinate to eat a blow in order to give them an opening to attack. Likewise, offense seems to be the best defense against this guy. More important to hit him than it is to be safe when dodging or blocking his Thrust is effectively impossible.

Could Ruin sunder his blade? It would be worth it to have half a sword through Hunger's bad lung if we get to improve our symmetry.
 
[X] Close of Day
[X] Preparation: Focus
[X] Preparation: Dialogue
The only reason I am even including Dialogue is because I have weakness to big brothers with little sisters and sob stories.
Plus if we kill him I feel like his sister will be a pawn of the Apoc Curse.
 
Preliminary vote count?

ImperatorV said:
You did say we would regret not taking her... Prophetic words as it turns out.
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I was actually referring to an entirely different scenario! But yes, this is an opportunity for regret as well!

vali said:
And you even killed off the amiable brutes!
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They had it coming, going up against Gondor Gondar unprepared. Fools. Even Vanreir would break a sweat against the White CIty made manifest!

Though perhaps it would be more accurate to say that there's a reason the Temple hasn't fallen, despite the huge variety of threats it attracts. The power of a Ring is not so easily denied, even when twisted against its own ends...

Byzantine said:
An unstoppable single linear attack.
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It's unstoppable, but not single! Think of it more like, "every thrust attack he makes, has these parameters."

LordOfMurder said:
We might actually be able to turn this guy if he hates the Inner residents that much because of his fathers influence. Are these guys related to the same Forebear whose blade we're using or is it just a coincidence? They have similar sayings, similar techniques, similar philosphies they even refer to him in the same way. Not sure how descendants of his would have ended up here though.
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Well, he was called the Forebear for a reason...
 
Fumbles said:
Could Ruin sunder his blade? It would be worth it to have half a sword through Hunger's bad lung if we get to improve our symmetry.
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Fun thought. He is the Unerring Blade, yet those two traits are separate. Sundering him, in body and physical blade with the Power of Ruin might quite possibly break his nature as Blade. If so, his attacks now will strike true but will no longer have the force to pierce through regardless of defense.
 
[X] Preparation: Dialogue

And if this vote lasts around 24 hours I actually might be able to rustle something up for this. @Rihaku , can we use vague parts of this update for in character knowledge and strategy building, say, the strange symmetry?

Edit : Actually stupid question, we'd be able to see that. I need sleeeeep
 
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Rihaku said:
His right arm was burned, his left arm a seared ruin, one eye gone, the lung on his left side unresponsive
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Whhhyyyy is his right arm burned. Because of the fire, obviously, but our working arm is fine... right? psst, hunger, watch out for fire on the way to the fight.

Also: Googling how to fight thrust with cut, need to figure out how to refine my search with "but magic tho".
 
cheesyme said:
Fun thought. He is the Unerring Blade, yet those two traits are separate. Sundering him, in body and physical blade with the Power of Ruin might quite possibly break his nature as Blade. If so, his attacks now will strike true but will no longer have the force to pierce through regardless of defense.
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Probably not the passive Power of Ruin, but the Fell-Handed Stroke could make an attempt! The question is whether you are willing to bear the cost... on the other hand, your access to additional forms is quite useful against this particular foe, though even the Form of Rage is not invincible before him.

Thanatanos said:
[X] Preparation: Dialogue

And if this vote lasts around 24 hours I actually might be able to rustle something up for this. @Rihaku , can we use vague parts of this update for in character knowledge and strategy building, say, the strange symmetry?
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Sure, go ahead.
 
He sacrificed much as Hunger did to defeat Fairbright, who was apparently weaker than him. He can be defeated because he is overly willing to trade hits to himself for hits to the enemy. Because he knows his will not fail.

So we simply need to make them be insufficient.
 
Projectile said:
Whhhyyyy is his right arm burned. Because of the fire, obviously, but our working arm is fine... right? psst, hunger, watch out for fire on the way to the fight.

Also: Googling how to fight thrust with cut, need to figure out how to refine my search with "but magic tho".
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To be honest, I don't like the combination of "No range limitations" and "No defense". We can't dodge as there is no way we can get away from the attack and we can't block because it will just go through the defense. Best way is enduring it with regen and/or killing him quickly. Maybe stopping him from attacking or slowing his attack speed?
 
Huh. Kind of salty that she died so anti-climatiaclly, but that's just life i guess. Also, this guy and Hunger's injuries are simetric, and both seem to be related somehow to the forebear...is he perhaps the Hunger equivalent of this universe? We don't actually know what Hunger's name was before. Hell, all of this is quite interesting, and i suspect that once and future is somehow tied to all of this.

[X] Close of Day
[X] Preparation: Focus
[X] Preparation: Resolve

Rules of nature.

More seriously, while i don't doubt our capacity to outscale him eventually, it's unlikely that we will ever face him this weak again. A risk, perhaps, but one i'm willing to take.

If we win, i'm...not too worried about devastating complication. Maybe i'm severely underestimating it, but i feel that whatever will gain from the fight will ve enough to ofsett the debuff.

Of course, i might flip the vote entirely. The fact that we don't see our survival odds...really worries me.
 
Rihaku said:
Probably not the passive Power of Ruin, but the Fell-Handed Stroke could make an attempt! The question is whether you are willing to bear the cost... on the other hand, your access to additional forms is quite useful against this particular foe, though even the Form of Rage is not invincible before him.
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That sounds like Resolve+Focus, take the thrust and break his weapon in turn. Hey, look what I'd already voted. :V
Byzantine said:
So we simply need to make them be insufficient.
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the multiple forms will help with that, as will coming towards the end. On the other hand, you can't exactly dodge tank someone whose power is quite literally "ignore distance durability and attempts to dodge, my thrust will pierce through.
Maragas said:
To be honest, I don't like the combination of "No range limitations" and "No defense". We can't dodge as there is no way we can get away from the attack and we can't block because it will just go through the defense. Best way is enduring it with regen and/or killing him quickly. Maybe stopping him from attacking or slowing his attack speed?
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That's actually quite viable, especially if we wait till he's weakened. No matter the will, he can only thrust so fast, and a worn down body + Ring of Blood should slow him down.
 
Maragas said:
To be honest, I don't like the combination of "No range limitations" and "No defense". We can't dodge as there is no way we can get away from the attack and we can't block because it will just go through the defense. Best way is enduring it with regen and/or killing him quickly. Maybe stopping him from attacking or slowing his attack speed?
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Potentially. But this type of foe to me screams to play his game back to him. Trade a killing blow for a crippling blow, then don't die.

I can see why Rihaku was shilling the last Defining Advancement. It would let this fight be hilariously trivial as he would have no way to expect or respond to someone that took hos perfect attack in the heart... and wasn't even slowed.
 
[X] R-Type #1
[X] Preparation: Dialogue
[X] Preparation: Resolve

I'm willing to give this a try in order to secure a bro. Take R-Type #1 so his undying resolve doesn't get in the way of dialogue. Try and pry things out of him as we fight to discover his reasons for doing this and hopefully the existence of his sister and his mistrust of the inner residents, maybe by leveraging our knowledge of the forebear and his thousand cuts technique? Then use resolve at a critical moment to show our dedication to resolving this peacfully. Maybe the resonance of showing our sincerity by putting our body on the line will resonate with how the forebear's technique required his father to sacrifice his life to show he was serious.
 
LordOfMurder said:
[X] R-Type #1
[X] Preparation: Dialogue
[X] Preparation: Resolve

I'm willing to give this a try in order to secure a bro. Take R-Type #1 so his undying resolve doesn't get in the way of dialogue. Try and pry things out of him as we fight to discover his reasons for doing this and hopefully the existence of his sister and his mistrust of the inner residents, maybe by leveraging our knowledge of the forebear and his thousand cuts technique? Then use resolve at a critical moment to show our dedication to resolving this peacfully. Maybe the resonance of showing our sincerity by putting our body on the line will resonate with how the forebear's technique required his father to sacrifice his life to show he was serious.
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Or, you could try to convince him that you're the Forebear! You carry his sword, after all! And a Ring with power over blood, doesn't that sound like something the Forebear would have?

Redshirt Army said:
[X] R-Type #1
[X] Preparation: Focus
[X] Preparation: Resolve

The only way out is through! Grab maximum fight bonuses, and go past your limits! More generally, fighting two foes at once is almost always harder than fighting two foes sequentially, and I imagine that's especially true with a fighting style all about "one perfect thrust".
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Not if they line up! Go, All-Piercing Thrust!!

ImperatorV said:
So, possible tactic to use with Resolve: once reduced to our Wraith Form, immediately begin trying to talk our way out of the fight. This guy doesn't seem like a big social person, use our social advantages to really sell that Wraith Form is our final card to play and that we're desperately trying to get out of the fight once he gets us that far. He goes for the finish, finally getting his long-held desire... And boom, form of rage and counterattack.

Of course, that requires that we take resolve. Withdrawal+Focus is safer even if it could leave us with nothing but Trauma for our efforts.
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Trauma's not so bad, it's mostly a penalty to social / mental checks.

Fumbles said:
I don't see the angle for diplomacy. Maybe we try to express how our situations mirror one-another, maybe we reveal we're here to get stronger so we can protect those we care for, and he does the same, in the opposite direction?
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You do have a Ring of Power... and his legacy is at least metaphysically a property of his blood...

Projectile said:
Whhhyyyy is his right arm burned. Because of the fire, obviously, but our working arm is fine... right? psst, hunger, watch out for fire on the way to the fight.
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Note that he seems capable of fighting at more or less full strength despite his wounds against Gabrielle! A blade that is chipped, can still Thrust, so long as it remains sharp!

Maragas said:
To be honest, I don't like the combination of "No range limitations" and "No defense". We can't dodge as there is no way we can get away from the attack and we can't block because it will just go through the defense. Best way is enduring it with regen and/or killing him quickly. Maybe stopping him from attacking or slowing his attack speed?
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He can also intercept your own attacks with his Thrust! What an absurd foe...
 
With all the similarities between them, this dude's determination and resolve in Close of Day might result in an unfortunate (for Hunger) self-and-soul-burning suicidal super attack.

On the other hand...
[X] Close of Day
[X] Preparation: Focus
[X] Preparation: Resolve

Time to die to win again. Let him think that his resolve carried him through to victory. Already in an exhausted state, there is a chance it will cause him to let down his guard. Then we FOR him.
 
[X] Close of Day
[X] Preparation: Withdrawal
[X] Preparation: Resolve

Here's my preliminary vote, and boy howdy does it look bad! Death spirals galore, wounded demoralized and unrewarded, ready to get skewered by any old trash mob. Yikes!

From a more optimistic point of view, I think Age and Treachery is our most viable way forward. If I'm aiming to deceive, I want an opponent to be focused in the wrong direction. To that end, an unerringly focused, and yet exhausted guy seems like a good bet.


ImperatorV said:
So, possible tactic to use with Resolve: once reduced to our Wraith Form, immediately begin trying to talk our way out of the fight. This guy doesn't seem like a big social person, use our social advantages to really sell that Wraith Form is our final card to play and that we're desperately trying to get out of the fight once he gets us that far. He goes for the finish, finally getting his long-held desire... And boom, form of rage and counterattack.

Of course, that requires that we take resolve. Withdrawal+Focus is safer even if it could leave us with nothing but Trauma for our efforts.
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To that end I support these tactics.
 
cheesyme said:
No matter the will
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See, this is the part I am afraid. The will is literally everything. Probably more vital to him than his perfect thrust.

Byzantine said:
Potentially. But this type of foe to me screams to play his game back to him. Trade a killing blow for a crippling blow, then don't die.
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Probably, we need to slow down his attack speed, interrupt his own attacks, making him block rather than attack and chip him away with Ruin?

To be honest, I like him enough to try for Diplo too.
 
If we want to fight him, I suggest one small modification to Blood debuffing:

make it as chaotic and uneven as you can

Weaken him then leave him be; buff him for just a split second, then stop; don't change his strength evenly; don't go just up or down.
He's all about straight lines. Fuck with that? You hit him straight in his metaphysical core.
 
If we are going to sword him and not go DOUBLE VALOUR, I don't think the answer is stepping away but rather getting close. If we can lock blades with him, we can position through footwork and deflection such that the tip of his blade is always kept pointing away from us or at least at non-fatal bits of us. From there, we can try hand to hand combat or some kind of grappling to make the relative shortness of our Blade work to our advantage. I don't think his stats are going to be higher than ours so that would work in our favour, assuming he can't use his Thrust to run away.

Even one wound on him would seriously improve our odds if we go with Close of Day since we could just work to stall until he bleeds out entirely. Doesn't matter how willing his spirit is if his flesh is weak. Alternatively, hold back the blood-fear of our Ring until a key moment, use Pressure to make him conflate us with his Forebear for a second while going full blast on the terror and use the resultant nanosecond of doubt to murder him.
 
PurposefulZephyr said:
If we want to fight him, I suggest one small modification to Blood debuffing:

make it as chaotic and uneven as you can

Weaken him then leave him be; buff him for just a split second, then stop; don't change his strength evenly; don't go just up or down.
He's all about straight lines. Fuck with that? You hit him straight in his metaphysical core.
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Sounds perfect. A chaotic beat set to no Rythme at all. Turned on his legacy itself.
 
Maragas said:
To be honest, I don't like the combination of "No range limitations" and "No defense". We can't dodge without stronger conceptual bullshit as there is no way we can get away from the attack and we can't block because it will just go through the defense. Best way is enduring it with regen and/or killing him quickly. Maybe stopping him from attacking or slowing his attack speed?
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This guy on Quora says that thrusting has the advantage of range, which tracks with... physical existence, I guess. Also our sword is broken and therefore short. We gotta get up in his face. He will not want us to be in his face, and will stab us so that doesn't happen. Solution: Cut anyway, I guess. Or grapple the heck out of this guy, don't let him thrust in the first place. Or second, he's almost certainly gonna get the first hit in if we aren't stealthy enough.

Edit: Thief Kinged by runeblue
 
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