A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Probably, that's the point of the increased mental stats I was assuming.
- Location
- USA
It's 20% increase to future rank +. Until we pick one it does nothing, it also doesn't work with Once and Future. It would change Apex to .24 instead of .2 if we picked it. It's still good of course, just no immediate impact.
- Location
- Brazil
[X] Dreadnought - Echo, Dreadnought's Bearing
-[X] Rune King
[X] Don't Bring Gisena
[X] Search for Humans
Personally, arguments for Hunger's mental state rings hollow with me, due to a plethora of things. This whole situation is one that i am more than willing to sacrifice things for the sake of power, because we put ourselves in a unecessarily risky situation. It has been hammered on us, again and again, that an progress type cursebearer is better of minimizing risks, especially taking geas into consideration. If you take 10% risk of death each year for a millenia, the odds of you surviving are astronomically low.
Hunger has, multiple times, not only put himself at unecessary risk, but in doing so, putting at risk his whole reason for choosing the path that he did: He can't save his companions if he dies. If he dies, it's likely that Gisena and Letrizia will soon follow, and if we keep taking these risks, he will die an inglorious and unecessary death, having acomplished nothing of worth with the gift that he received from the cursebearer.
Never mind what this says about Hunger's mental state, again and again throwing himself at an huge amount of danger to gain some short-term power. What does this say about him? On top of taking form of rage, which is ennourmously risky, especially because, as Rihaku has stated countless times, isn't even guarranted to activate, due to needing an immense rage. We entered the dungeon with an literally suicidal build.
If people had chosen more conservative things, i would be more welcoming of restoring hunger: To begin with, he wouldn't need as much power, and healing him would be quite an nice arc. Sure, i still prefer rune king, i prefer the narrative of being willing to accept sacrifices and learning with them, such being the path of wisdom, on top of it encouraging more towards learning magic, but i would also be more convinced towards restoring Hunger to the hero he once was.
On top of all of that, if people cared more about his mental state...Unshattered was an option. Sure, it sacrificed an arm and an eye, but it would be coming to terms with it, accepting what happened, and moving past that. It undoubtedly would leave him in a much healthier mental state than he is right now.And now, ironically, people are pushing towards sacrificing one of the things that he retained by not taking it. So, utimately we choose to not give him an better mental state because of an arm, and because of to shatter heaven, which, as far as i am aware, had minimal effect so far.
Don't get me wrong, an arm is quite nice. But...how many would be willing to sacrifice an arm to find the peace within oneselves? Come to terms with the horrors of their past?
And i didn't even mention how potentially powerful an Unshattered build would have been...might write an omake about it later, though.
-[X] Rune King
[X] Don't Bring Gisena
[X] Search for Humans
Personally, arguments for Hunger's mental state rings hollow with me, due to a plethora of things. This whole situation is one that i am more than willing to sacrifice things for the sake of power, because we put ourselves in a unecessarily risky situation. It has been hammered on us, again and again, that an progress type cursebearer is better of minimizing risks, especially taking geas into consideration. If you take 10% risk of death each year for a millenia, the odds of you surviving are astronomically low.
Hunger has, multiple times, not only put himself at unecessary risk, but in doing so, putting at risk his whole reason for choosing the path that he did: He can't save his companions if he dies. If he dies, it's likely that Gisena and Letrizia will soon follow, and if we keep taking these risks, he will die an inglorious and unecessary death, having acomplished nothing of worth with the gift that he received from the cursebearer.
Never mind what this says about Hunger's mental state, again and again throwing himself at an huge amount of danger to gain some short-term power. What does this say about him? On top of taking form of rage, which is ennourmously risky, especially because, as Rihaku has stated countless times, isn't even guarranted to activate, due to needing an immense rage. We entered the dungeon with an literally suicidal build.
If people had chosen more conservative things, i would be more welcoming of restoring hunger: To begin with, he wouldn't need as much power, and healing him would be quite an nice arc. Sure, i still prefer rune king, i prefer the narrative of being willing to accept sacrifices and learning with them, such being the path of wisdom, on top of it encouraging more towards learning magic, but i would also be more convinced towards restoring Hunger to the hero he once was.
On top of all of that, if people cared more about his mental state...Unshattered was an option. Sure, it sacrificed an arm and an eye, but it would be coming to terms with it, accepting what happened, and moving past that. It undoubtedly would leave him in a much healthier mental state than he is right now.And now, ironically, people are pushing towards sacrificing one of the things that he retained by not taking it. So, utimately we choose to not give him an better mental state because of an arm, and because of to shatter heaven, which, as far as i am aware, had minimal effect so far.
Don't get me wrong, an arm is quite nice. But...how many would be willing to sacrifice an arm to find the peace within oneselves? Come to terms with the horrors of their past?
And i didn't even mention how potentially powerful an Unshattered build would have been...might write an omake about it later, though.
Dark Abstraction
Infrequent Participant
- Location
- United States
Rihaku is the final arbiter of the strength of arguments, omakes, and all non-vote metrics by which value is ascribed towards a given vote. Which ultimately comes down to Rihaku reading it and saying "What fanworks do I like most and what arguments are the most persuasive to me". And really, he's a human and may have his own preferences for what he wants to write about.
However, he does try to give everything at least a chance to win, and he does eliminate losing things and then set up consolidation votes to allow people to reorient themselves towards their most preferred alternatives when necessary.
So while it's not a perfect system, Rihaku actually offers what I would consider perhaps one of the more forgiving voting environments on any of the quest subforums of SB, SV, or QQ.
((Yes, people will recall rightly that I did quit EFB because I held the very ungenerous opinion that Rihaku was just picking the options he liked most. Nearly all the votes I supported lost and I was extremely bitter about it; time and distance allowed me to look back and say that it was not the case, I had just been unfortunate in supporting many options which fell short of victory and had taken it somewhat personally. This really just adds potency to the above statements.))
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It'd bed nice to see a few explicit instances of this stuff as opposed to the "kill things and take from their corpses" that has been the primary manifestation.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
We're fighting over two things with no immediate impact.
Rune King does very little for us right now.
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
That's going to happen no matter what we pick. If we go magic we'll be voting for mental stats and arguing physical is a waste of time and vice versa. Rihaku quests are made of salt and arguments and that won't change regardless of the choice we make.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
That's not what I mean.
I mean his habit of playing devil's advocate pretty universally has attacked the options I've wanted the most, while supporting the ones I've liked the least. Maybe I'm just a terrible judge of these things, or my perspective is skewed. it just feels very frustrating to have the option you utterly revile talked up by the QM at the same time the option you'd prefer is attacked every third post. This is especially frustrating when it isn't even *really* winning at the time.
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
I get what you mean but it's because he's arguing against whatever seems to be winning at the time and then usually doesn't have time to re-argue when the votes change around again. For instance this voting round he also eviscerated Sharp eyes.
Probably the best way to win is to have your preferred option be the least popular in the early and middle stages of a vote so Rihaku argues for it and hope for a resurgance after he's gone to sleep before writing the update the next day.
Dark Abstraction
Infrequent Participant
- Location
- United States
Luck of the draw, really. Luck being, of course, found in two axiomatically opposed types. We've all been there and we all will be again at some point. Nothing to do but speak all the more passionately in favor of your preferred votes, and potentially sway people by your fervor.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
There is a reason I said I feel like literally arguing for whatever I hate the most next time so Rihaku does my job for me, since he is far more persuasive than I am.
- Location
- USA
@LordOfMurder if you want Gisena screentime so badly, consider this. Rune King is absurdly good with Wreath. I think picking it here makes it extremely likely that we will get Wreath eventually and use our increased mental stats to boost Gisena and keep her relevant long term.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
I've written more than 3000 words and not swayed a single person. I'm apparently bad at it. While at the same time I've watched the option I utterly despise getting higher and higher.
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
it's tremendously difficult to convince someone to change vote and also sometimes people just don't announce why they voted some way, it's hard to be sure whether your argument was effective
Dark Abstraction
Infrequent Participant
- Location
- United States
People don't necessarily say if they've changed their opinion, or if your arguments have solidified things for them. Many people just post a vote and go from there. That vote might only be constructed in the fashion it is because of something you (or someone else) said, but it will often and perhaps usually, not say so. Doesn't mean you shouldn't try.
Besides, the act of getting people to change their vote isn't the sole value of making arguments. This is a Rihaku quest; your arguments have an intrinsic value in and of themselves, as support towards your given option.
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LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
The problem is that people aren't going to want to take Gisena with us until we have Vanguard since otherwise there'll be arguments that shes just dead weight. I like Rune King and think it's a powerful option and I'd like to take a mage option in the future sometime, but right now I'd like to secure Gisena's place in the party.
I don't think Rihaku is necessarily more persuasive than you. He has the massive benefit of being the only arbiter of how things work and since so many of the effects of options and how the game system works are opaque his arguments carry more weight.
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
How do I vote tally?
Dark Abstraction
Infrequent Participant
- Location
- United States
To follow up on this, Rihaku doesn't account for his own arguments when weighing the argument and omake value towards votes; his advocacy is purely to foster consideration in voters about their options.
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Welcome to the Statement Index 3.0. Not the prettiest right now but I'll try to work on making it look nicer as time goes on.
You are not bad at it or unconvincing, you have made so very compelling arguments. People are just that difficult to convince. It is near impossible to get someone to change their mind particularly if they feel invested in their current mindset, if I remember correctly it is more effective to have people convince themselves to change their position than to convince them of anything (itself quite a difficult proposition).
Your arguments have nearly swayed me several times, it is just that at this moment I feel that Stranglethorn is not what we need. Perhaps if we had more strength and con to double I would feel differently, but currently we don't, so I want to go for something either more directly offensive or something with more immediately relevant secondary effects ( though I could probably be persuaded that Stranglethorn has these, the tired and exhaustion mitigation looks really good right now).
So please, do not feel that you are unpersuasive.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
he's also pretty persuasive to be honest, at least if you like his style