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A Simple Transaction I

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Dark Abstraction said:
For a Cursebearer granted the gift of infinite Progression, that is the only true path; there is no accepting the dictates of cruel fate and foul foe. There is only the will of the Cursebearer, and what they would see done. The power born of accepting their diminishment is nothing before the endless growth laid before them on a path from which his feet cannot stray.
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The power to one day move beyond even this. To one day move beyond everything. To one gain the will, power, skill, knowledge, and beliefs to surpass everything that has ever been before. The power to not simply erase our foes, but to ensure their ilk never touch another. To save the countless they have broken all the name of some stupid scheme. They will fail. Because we will make them.

And I will not accept compromise. And accepting a wound they had a hand in dealing? That is just as much a compromise as letting them just have a few worlds to have dance to their strings. Never.
 
Shard said:
Scars on the flesh are cosmetic. Scars on the mind are not. I can say from personal experience, I prefer the former to the latter. If given the choice.
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I disagree. I can say from personal experience, having both, that it's easier to heal when you don't have to visibly look at the scar every day. But really now, this part of the argument is, frankly, totally worthless. It's subjective. And positing otherwise is just going to drag down the thread. We're going to stop this thread of discourse now.

If Hunger's wellbeing was truly valued, then we would have looked at options such as Forsaken Mask (which immediately brought back his wife and child) or Balance (stated by Rihaku to be the most psychologically stable). Then there were choices such as Unshattered or Conclusion which restored it. He did not select them. By our choices, Hunger is a man who much like Baenlixnaier - Vengeance, at any cost. What is a body part - or several - compared to that? Is having depth perception going to start healing him?

Or: Would you say amputees aren't able to live a whole and complete life? That by being marred of flesh, they are also marred in mind and spirit? There are many who would say that you are wrong.
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This argument is flawed at its core. You are approaching this argument from the perspective that an amputee cannot regain their missing pieces, but can find happiness and fulfillment despite that.

That is not the discussion we are having.

The discussion we are having is whether that individual should willingly choose to keep their disfigurement instead of completely undoing it. There is an argument that can be made that those who have already found peace with themselves in their present state might not wish to seek alteration, but that's not yet what Hunger has done. Voting for Unshattered would have been the act of making that decision, for example. So we're in this superposition of not accepting it and not having an opinion either way, until a vote goes through that actually successfully regenerates or permanently reifies his maiming
 
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[X] Dreadnought - Echo, Dreadnought's Bearing
-[X] Rune King
[X] Bring Gisena
[X] Search for Humans

Disappointed we didn't push deeper last update. While there is a push deeper option this vote, since we've already rested and regrouped I'd prefer to get some info and maybe a minor powerup before returning to that. Same reason I moved away from my previous apex vote, which assumed a deeper push.

Dreadnought gives power and sets us up to grow faster in the future. Gisena can share her thoughts on this place, and help us negotiate with any people we meet. As for meeting people, I want knowledge, answers, and potentially allies.
 
Shard said:
Well, I can tell you that my mother would gladly give up at least some of her limbs to bring my father back from being permanently bedridden. I would personally be willing to give up an eye, ear, leg or hand to not suffer depression. My personal experience is that quite frankly, being unable to have the full physical motion of the human body (or depth perception) doesn't actually matter that much to a complete life. I've seen people with broken legs and they were not suffering greatly during their recovery.
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It is not that I would not give up my arm to bring back my father. It is that I refuse to allow a world in which such sacrifice is necessary to continue to exist, if I have anything to say about it. That does not mean there is anything I would not give up, for there is not. But I want to bring Ruin to this world for not even having that... and if it had that I would still want to. Because I refuse to accept that.

Shard said:
And now, after all that, a single, already lost eye is now relevant?
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There can be no compromise. Not a single hair. not a single drop of blood. Not a single paper cut. Not a single bad memory.

My position is that to accept that there must be a price in the end is to lose. And I refuse that.

No. In the end there should not even be the slightest wisp of a memory left. Not the slightest physical hint.

For ultimately the curses are a reminder of the Accursed, not of them, and they are more than enough of a price for this.
 
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[X] Sweep the Outskirts
[X] Root and Branch

Guys pls. A multiplicative boost to a logarithmic progression curve? Way too good to ever pass up.

Besides, inexorability's always been the coolest quality for a powerful hero
 
Hm... alright, I suppose we'll try out two-option Approval Voting one more time. But if it disappoints again, it shall be cast into the pit and never retrieved!
 
Dark Abstraction said:
The discussion we are having is whether that individual should willingly choose to keep their disfigurement instead of completely undoing it. There is an argument that can be made that those who have already found peace with themselves in their present state might not wish to seek alteration, but that's not yet what Hunger has done. Voting for Unshattered would have been the act of making that decision, for example. So we're in this superposition of not accepting it and not having an opinion either way, until a vote goes through that actually successfully regenerates or permanently reifies his maiming
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Byzantine said:
It is not that I would not give up my arm to bring back my father. It is that I refuse to allow a world in which such sacrifice is necessary to continue to exist, if I have anything to say about it. That does not mean there is anything I would not give up, for there is not. But I want to bring Ruin to this world for not even having that... and if it had that I would still want to. Because I refuse to accept that.
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He had the opportunity to undo his disfigurement from the very first vote.

He chose the path of vengeance, to become an existence who was anathema to life that he bring death, destruction and worse to come upon the gods that inflicted it upon him.

He accepted curses (The Apocryphal, The Geas, Decimator) which will dog him for all of eternity regardless of any power or sacrifice he makes to alleviate them.

A single eye for more power is nothing now. It pales in comparison to the choices he has already made.
 
I know I'm silly. I get passionate about stupid things, and I'm not nearly as convincing as I wish I could be. But this is what I've got. If I has to I'll stay up all night writing and bury the thread in Omakes. I do not want to see such a pointless loss for power that, frankly, we can do without. We have so many other means of attaining power it's ridiculous.

Shard said:
He had the opportunity to undo his disfigurement from the very first vote.
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As I said, I was not here. Now? Now I'll argue to do what I can fix that mistake.

[X] Sweep the Outskirts
[X] Root and Branch
[X] Strong Sword-Arm
 
I think the reason the maiming options give unusual amounts of power is because they have a sympathetic connection to the maiming curse.

Rihaku said:
Mutilating Affliction - HP is halved. Cursebearer loses one eye, one ear, one arm, one leg, one lung, and one kidney. Organs cannot be replaced but prosthetics can be employed. However, the subjective enjoyment of the lost organs can never be regained. Shapeshifting into a multi-limbed form, such as that of an octopus, would see the Cursebearer with four tentacles instead of eight.
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My thinking is that being a one-eyed Odin is cooler than two eyes, but there's nothing cool about only having one arm so if we ever get around to it I'll vote to regenerate the arm.
 
Shard said:
Well, I can tell you that my mother would gladly give up at least some of her limbs to bring my father back from being permanently bedridden. I would personally be willing to give up an eye, ear, leg or hand to not suffer depression. My personal experience is that quite frankly, being unable to have the full physical motion of the human body (or depth perception) doesn't actually matter that much to a complete life. I've seen people with broken legs and they were not suffering greatly during their recovery.
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Your life experiences are real, and I see you. But they are not objective, that can't be used to say "this is the only truth". I have depression and I have lost loved ones, and if you would ever like to talk about your experiences, or mine, or the world in general, I would be happy to do so. Reaching out is a supremely hard and vulnerable act, and I will give all I have to be supportive to anyone that seeks out help from me if they choose to do so. Let's not leverage our hurt to win a quest debate on the internet.

Way more important is the people around us, and our mental well-being. The physical form is by far tertiary to that. And through our choices we have given up mental recovery for Hunger time, after time, after time. And now, all of a sudden, we should now suddenly care about our MC having an extra eye as opposed to having his wife and son back (that we gave up awhile ago at the start of the quest)? Give me a break. This sacrifice is nothing compared to the sacrifices we already voted for implicitly.

We voted for Hunger to become a Tyrant, to become a person whose very existence poisons life itself. We voted for him to give up the chance for recovery, a life with wife and child long thought lost forever. We voted for him to seek power as opposed to laying his scars from the Tyrant to rest (That's what Conclusion does). We voted to get even more power at the risk of life and limb, including that of his companions.

And now, after all that, a single, already lost eye is now relevant?
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Much of this was brought up in my previous post which was written before I'd seen this post I'm replying to, so I will not reiterate it.
 
Shard said:
He had the opportunity to undo his disfigurement from the very first vote.

He chose the path of vengeance, to become an existence who was anathema to life that he bring death, destruction and worse to come upon the gods that inflicted it upon him.

He accepted curses (The Apocryphal, The Geas, Decimator) which will dog him for all of eternity regardless of any power or sacrifice he makes to alleviate them.

A single eye for more power is nothing now. It pales in comparison to the choices he has already made.
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One vote to pass up on an opportunity for healing in favor of greater capability when one knows they will eventually come across another such opportunity with greater ability to leverage it due to their greater capability does not a permanent decision make.
 
Shard said:
And now, after all that, a single, already lost eye is now relevant?
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There's also the question as to whether Warrior-Mage long-term benefits actually interest him. If he wants to go Warrior-Lord or straight Warrior, the benefits of Rune King become antithetical to his progression.

The intent, omni-directional pursuit of power is a sign of an unhinged mind, one that has already lost faith in their cause and believes only overturning the world entire is sufficient to achieve their goals. It may speak well of his current state of mind if he judges heretofore unknown vistas of power as roughly equal in worth to the regaining of a lost body part.

Byzantine said:
I know I'm silly. I get passionate about stupid things, and I'm not nearly as convincing as I wish I could be. But this is what I've got. If I has to I'll stay up all night writing and bury the thread in Omakes. I do not want to see such a pointless loss for power that, frankly, we can do without. We have so many other means of attaining power it's ridiculous.
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Quick, everybody throw in for Rune King so he'll start feeding us Arete!
 
Shard said:
But that's not the story we're telling anymore, of a man who chose freedom.

This is the story of a man who is willing to give up everything for vengeance.
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Does it sound like I care?

Besides, the best vengeance isn't living well. Nor is it blood.

It's both. To make your foe's efforts so meaningless they do not bear the slightest weight on anything.

Box Lunch said:
Quick, everybody throw in for Rune King so he'll start feeding us Arete!
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Don't make me come over there!
 
Hm, I'm seeing a lot of people who have a strong objection either to Rune King or Stranglethorn. Why not consolidate around an option that avoids the downsides of both, like Apex? Or Sword-Arm?

Better yet, you can vote for both of them!
 
Rihaku said:
Hm, I'm seeing a lot of people who have a strong objection either to Rune King or Stranglethorn. Why not consolidate around an option that avoids the downsides of both, like Apex? Or Sword-Arm?

Better yet, you can vote for both of them!
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Some part of me wants to get the non-sacrificial Dreadnought, just to cut this off once and for all. I can exaggerate how much I hate the eye of giving up part of ourselves for power.
 
Dark Abstraction said:
One vote to pass up on an opportunity for healing in favor of greater capability when one knows they will eventually come across another such opportunity with greater ability to leverage it due to their greater capability does not a permanent decision make.
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Well, from another perspective, there's also the ability to gain capabilities that outmatch the existence of eye - Touchsight, etc. Infinite cardinal exponentiation of progression applies to the senses as much as anything else.
 
LordOfMurder said:
Are you open to the vote trade I proposed earlier?
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I'm sorry but I don't think I am. The other options are just a bit too shiny.

Byzantine said:
I know I'm silly. I get passionate about stupid things, and I'm not nearly as convincing as I wish I could be. But this is what I've got. If I has to I'll stay up all night writing and bury the thread in Omakes.
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Well, at least you understand my motivation behind fighting for Final Form.

Shard said:
And now, after all that, a single, already lost eye is now relevant?
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This is what gets me. Hunger is literally a conquering Tyrant. As in, he decided that he was willing to spend the next few octillion years conquering worlds as an unquestionable, uncompromising Tyrant because he wanted vengeance. But now this is about psychological healing and refusing to let them define you?

As it turns out, you're a bit too late to die on that particular hill.
 
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Insert tally
Adhoc vote count started by Conjured Blade on Jun 8, 2020 at 12:07 AM, finished with 140 posts and 41 votes.
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Byzantine said:
Does it sound like I care?

Besides, the best vengeance isn't living well. Nor is it blood.

It's both. To make your foe's efforts so meaningless they do not bear the slightest weight on anything.
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But they do. It made Hunger choose the path of Vengeance and the curses it came packaged with.

Nothing Hunger will do will undo that.
 
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