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A Simple Transaction I

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Shard said:
Can 3 Wishes True Wish can remove a curse? Effectively become a Cursebearer minus the Curse. Or at least 1 less curse.
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Remove it? No. Mitigate it 100%? Maybe someday, but even the Accursed can't remove his own curses at this time.

That said, some curses go away on their own. The Geas of Indenture is unique in that it goes away completely after 937 octillion years. If Seram had picked that curse and only that curse, he would eventually have ended up a cursebearer with no curses.
 
[X] Aggressive
[X] Bright Vanquisher
[X] +.1 Rank

Eh, honestly I just prefer the what the Aggressive head space implies both for Hunger in general and due to the way the Temple comes across and this is the best powerset for that. Hoping Form of Rage pays of rather than quagmiring us in the muck of paying too much for meh results is kind of a Dare to Dream move. This is one of the most likely places for it to pay off though, so I'm willing to take a chance.
 
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vali said:
Remove it? No. Mitigate it 100%? Maybe someday, but even the Accursed can't remove his own curses at this time.

That said, some curses go away on their own. The Geas of Indenture is unique in that it goes away completely after 937 octillion years. If Seram had picked that curse and only that curse, he would eventually have ended up a cursebearer with no curses.
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It seemed sort of possible to me though.

Also wondered about using 3 Wishes to be converted from Combat to Progression class. But that seemed difficult as well.
 
Guys, bright vanquisher is not a good choice. We are too weak. We will be reliant on actually using Rage. Which means we get a single fight the entire time. Which greatly limits our short-term growth (what's the value of an additional pick for one fight if you miss out on 3 more fights because of it?). And is painfully vulnerably to nullification. While walking into a magic dungeon that has at least some experience with nullity, if the King Fish was any indication.

I don't understand why people are ignorihg the "and then I have to take a day off" limit. It's critically dangerous!

Bright vanquisher with aggressive is just plain suicidal. We get two serious fights and then we are screwed.
 
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My Omake about what happens if we pick Temple of the False Moon literally predicted us having to leave the temple on the second fight, after triggering Form of Rage to get out because we couldn't handle it.
 
Byzantine said:
Guys, bright vanquisher is not a good choice. We are too weak. We will be reliant on actually uaing Rage. Which means we get a single fight the entire time. Which greatly limits our short-term growth (what's the value of an additional pick for one fight if you miss out on 3 more fights because of it?). And is painfully vulnerably to nullification. While walking into a magic dungeon that has at least some experience with nullity, if the King Fish was any indication.

Bright vanquisher with aggressive is just plain suicidal. We get two serious fights and then we are screwed.
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Bright Vanquisher is the opposite of sucidal. It relies on us finding places with stronk enemies and rewards and than using our full power to get those, the rewards would hopefully help us snowball. And if necessary, Hunger would retreat, he's not an complete idiot. It literally takes two attempts to kill us, it's even stated in the option fluff that it allows us to take dangerous actions.

What's sucidal is entering an high level dungeon with relatively shitty offensive and defense. At that point why even go into the Temple since we are not really capable of properly exploiting it?
 
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DkArthas said:
Bright Vanquisher is the opposite of sucidal. It relies on us finding places with stronk enemies and rewards and than using our full power to get those, the rewards would hopefully help us snowball. And if necessary, Hunger would retreat, he's not an complete idiot. It literally takes two attempts to kill us, it's even stated in the option fluff that it allows us to take dangerous actions.

What's sucidal is entering an high level dungeon with relatively shitty offensive and defense. At that point why even go into the Temple since we are not really capable of properly exploiting it?
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Then it's a pity Murderer's Panopoly and the Forbidden got Eliminated.
 
DkArthas said:
It relies on us finding places with stronk enemies and rewards and than using our full power to get those, the rewards would hopefully help us snowball.
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??? That's exactly suicidal! You're assuming exactly one wave of worthy enemies, or no gaps to let form of rage end. It then leaves us tired and hence cripples our strongest ability - rank. Not to the degree of exhausted. That comes after we are forced to use it a second time.

But Bright Vanquisher is not a good pick for fighting and retreating, really. Because the cool down time is really long.

Bright Vanquisher is not Panoply. Nor is it some "I win every fight!" Button. It's a trap that has a terrifyingly high probability of backfiring on us, because we aren't strong enough with that build to avoid hitting the panic button!
 
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Byzantine said:
??? That's exactly suicidal! You're assuming exactly one wave of worthy enemies, or no gaps to let form of rage end. It then leaves us tired and hence cripples our strongest ability - rank. Not to the degree of exhausted. That comes after we are forced to use it a second time.

But Bright Vanquisher is not a good pick for fighting and retreating, really. Because the cool down time is really long.

Bright Vanquisher is not Panoply. Nor is it some "I win every fight!" Button. It's a trap that has a terrifyingly high probability of backfiring on us, because we aren't strong enough with that build to avoid hitting the panic button!
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A powerful, if circumstantial build that is highly effective against more fearsome single foes, and which has sufficient raw strength and endurance to carry the day against most lesser enemies. High constitution combined with three health bars (one of which has tripled constitution) grant this build unparalleled resilience against compelling opponents, but the costs of the Form of Rage are high. Still, played well it can easily snowball into an unstoppable force, and the extra layer of safety allows for a reckless playstyle while it persists, while providing a useful coordination point for retreat in the aftermath. When the hour of defeat is nigh, the vanquisher erupts forth as a cataclysm of light and fury, wraith of wrath given thundering flesh and set among the enemy to bring their end.
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Maybe someone should read the description?
 
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DkArthas said:
Maybe someone should read the description?
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Maybe someone thinks the thread is suicidal and unlikely to actually vote for that until exhausted? Given how few people even acknowledge the problem I'm quite certain we will treat it as if we are invincible, trigger it twice in quick succession, and then be brutually killed because we no longer have the ability to fight back.

Note that even after all of Rihaku's cautioning and the other warnings people continue pairing Bright Vanquisher with Aggressive. We are totally dead if we pick it, because the thread does not understand the meaning of "safe"!

Tell ya what. If bright vanquisher wins and we do vote to back off after we get a risky shiny rubbed in our face after triggering it the first time before resting I'll just let you have my votes for the rest of our time in the temple. That's how confident I am we will keep going straight to our deaths.
 
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Byzantine said:
Maybe someone thinks the thread is suicidal and unlikely to actually vote for that until exhausted?
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I can't imagine calling an build that literally gives us the ability to keep fighting after dying twice, rising each time mightier than before (Well, actually just the last) sucidal and a trap. It gives us immense safety margin, far more so than the shitty alternative.

If you believe that the thread is going to be sucidal than all options are going to get us killed but especially Immortal Regiment, which is mostly incapable of doing anything if faced with a nullity resistance enemy more powerful than Hunger, which we are very likely to face in the temple.
 
DkArthas said:
If you believe that the thread is going to be sucidal than all options are going to get us killed but especially Immortal Regiment, which is mostly incapable of doing anything if faced with a nullity resistance enemy more powerful than Hunger, which we are very likely to face in the temple
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If you completely ignore the psychology involved, sure.
 
[X] Immortal Regiment
[X] Conservative
[X] +.1 Rank

Bit late to the vote. Honestly, all builds feel risky, and I'm not entirely sure that this build is even viable. Such is the risk of going maximum greed. Let's just hope that maximum greed doesn't get someone killed...

Still tempted by form of rage, but I am afraid of the potential characterisation...
 
Bright Vanquisher offers same amount of stats as Cut for 2 Arete more, with Cuts stats being somewhat more valuable as Agi/Str>Con. Both then take 7AP options in order to gain more; however, while Cut does that in manner that makes it completely irrelevant what they do as long as they kill anything, Vanquisher has to YOLO their way through the dungeon, magically evading any lesser opponents that would pressure them due to weakness of the build until they somehow run into something powerful enough to be too strong for other builds but weak enough to be beatable by Rage form, and then somehow magically get out of temple while being weakened. And even if somehow everything does work out, our characterization is getting fucked in process

And yet people unironically pick this. They read the description, think(or don't I guess) about the implications, past vote in their reply field and put X inside.
 
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Considering one of the common points in both the eliminated builds Rihaku called more viable was thousand cuts... I'm going for it.

[X] The Barest Cut
[X] Conservative
[X] +.1 Rank - The will to go on
 
Wolfy said:
Bright Vanquisher offers same amount of stats as Cut for 2 Arete more, with Cuts stats being somewhat more valuable as Agi/Str>Con. Both then take 7AP options in order to gain more; however, while Cut does that in manner that makes it completely irrelevant what they do as long as they kill anything, Vanquisher has to YOLO their way through the dungeon, magically evading any lesser opponents that would pressure them due to weakness of the build until they somehow run into something powerful enough to be too strong for other builds but weak enough to be beatable by Rage form, and then somehow magically get out of temple while being weakened. And even if somehow everything does work out, our characterization is getting fucked in process

And yet people unironically pick this. They read the description, think(or don't I guess) about the implications, past vote in their reply field and put X inside.
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The characterization is a feature, for me at least.

Magical evasion is actually a thing Hunger does! With his magical superhuman stats and magical ability to alter reality to his will.

Most important is the philosophy of the vote. I'm approaching this temple from the standpoint of someone unfavored. I expect to lose. I therefore tailored my vote to escape and survive, rather than setting it up to press forward and prosper.

I dearly hope I'm wrong! It may well be that we can defeat the challenges of this place, and profit, but I take a more pessimistic view.
 
Wolfy said:
Bright Vanquisher offers same amount of stats as Cut for 2 Arete more, with Cuts stats being somewhat more valuable as Agi/Str>Con. Both then take 7AP options in order to gain more; however, while Cut does that in manner that makes it completely irrelevant what they do as long as they kill anything, Vanquisher has to YOLO their way through the dungeon, magically evading any lesser opponents that would pressure them due to weakness of the build until they somehow run into something powerful enough to be too strong for other builds but weak enough to be beatable by Rage form, and then somehow magically get out of temple while being weakened. And even if somehow everything does work out, our characterization is getting fucked in process

And yet people unironically pick this. They read the description, think(or don't I guess) about the implications, past vote in their reply field and put X inside.
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My main reason is that Rihaku has relentlessly hammered the "It's Dangerous" button at basically every available opportunity. To the point that I now think that it's quite likely Cuts just straight dies pretty much immediately without a chance to do anything regardless of approach. We don't need to magically evade lesser opponents for a big boss payoff if even basic mooks are still that much stronger than us.

If the baseline level is high enough, then a first challenge -> immediately pop rage -> +Rank/Exp -> Reevaluate pressing forward/Retreating while only tired and have the leeway. Seems a very plausible cycle. Maybe we end up not getting much out of the place. But we haven't spend much time on this venture either.
 
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[X] Conservative
[X] Immortal Regiment
[X] Ring Affinity

A shame that the Ring didn't make it, but ah well. My backup preference is still viable, it seems.

I still don't know why people like taking huge risks, though. Perhaps I have a different idea of what risks mean?
 
vali said:
Remove it? No. Mitigate it 100%? Maybe someday, but even the Accursed can't remove his own curses at this time.

That said, some curses go away on their own. The Geas of Indenture is unique in that it goes away completely after 937 octillion years. If Seram had picked that curse and only that curse, he would eventually have ended up a cursebearer with no curses.
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In theory, yes. In practice, you are more likely to eventually fail a task.
 
Thomasfoolery said:
My main reason is that Rihaku has relentlessly hammered the "It's Dangerous" button at basically every available opportunity. To the point that I now think that it's quite likely Cuts just straight dies pretty much immediately without a chance to do anything regardless of approach. We don't need to magically evade lesser opponents for a big boss payoff if even basic mooks are still that much stronger than us.
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What makes Barest Cut so much weaker than the other two options? It uses less Arete but I think Cuts let's it punch up pretty well. It gives it a harder hitting attack than Rage form.
 
If you all were worried about stronger foes, you should have vote for Panoply, because that's what it did best. Now we are in the position of either taking solo Cuts or bringing Gisena along and hoping we don't need a way to deal with stronger foes or dispellation respectively. Or just hope that Rage saves us and we gamble on making a clean escape.
Fumbles said:
Most important is the philosophy of the vote. I'm approaching this temple from the standpoint of someone unfavored. I expect to lose. I therefore tailored my vote to escape and survive, rather than setting it up to press forward and prosper.
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Thomasfoolery said:
My main reason is that Rihaku has relentlessly hammered the "It's Dangerous" button at basically every available opportunity. To the point that I now think that it's quite likely Cuts just straight dies pretty much immediately without a chance to do anything regardless of approach. We don't need to magically evade lesser opponents for a big boss payoff if even basic mooks are still that much stronger than us.
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What a terrible mentality. Now that we are here, it behooves us to maximize our chances of success, not declare this thing lost at the first opportunity. Have some courage! We haven't even suffered any setbacks, and you all consider defeat inevitable?

The whole point of the Temple is to gather strength. We can't do that by investing what power we already have in a emergency option! We would literally give up proactivity and leave the result to the whims of fate. A terrible position to be in. It's to early to say this has been a mistake. So let's invest in something that will let us face challenges proactively; preferably Cuts.
 
Thomasfoolery said:
My main reason is that Rihaku has relentlessly hammered the "It's Dangerous" button at basically every available opportunity. To the point that I now think that it's quite likely Cuts just straight dies pretty much immediately without a chance to do anything regardless of approach. We don't need to magically evade lesser opponents for a big boss payoff if even basic mooks are still that much stronger than us.

If the baseline level is high enough, then a first challenge -> immediately pop rage -> +Rank/Exp -> Reevaluate pressing forward/Retreating while only tired and have the leeway. Seems a very plausible cycle. Maybe we end up not getting much out of the place. But we haven't spend much time on this venture either.
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If basic mooks are that much stronger than us then none of the builds matter. Bright vanquisher suffers from decreasing power every time you use it, which means if we are forced to use it early we are just fucked.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Byzantine on Jun 5, 2020 at 3:30 PM, finished with 391 posts and 53 votes.
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