This does seem like an okay place to get our feet wet with Tyrant's doom. It's very unlikely a place like this is going to be monolithic. So even if we piss off one faction/person it probably doesn't sink us as we have the INT/CHA to muddy the issue of blame, the bigger issue is probably how strong they may be, if they're a level suitable for the place they could beat us potentially.. The .5 Arete really does put us in striking distance of making the 7/7 plan feasible though.

Yup, it's certainly possible they could just kill you! Whether by being inherently hostile, or turning hostile because of your Doom, or because some number of them want Letrizia's head for the bounty, etc. You just don't know!

Anyway, aside from the Arete bribe going around the base feels odd. Surely the unknown is more dangerous than these adventurers? Wouldn't backstabbing be far more likely in the temple anyway? It's both arrogant and cowardly, I thought Hunger was the danger.

Of the adventurers you've encountered, two of five have been significantly stronger than you were at the time, so why would you assume you're more powerful? Hunger isn't anywhere near top dog in this setting yet.

so after a rambunctious knife fight which generated a bunch of Arete, we're down to a small list of plans that were devised before knowing what our Arete budget was.

Where did you draw that conclusion from?
 
[X] Hail the Outpost
[X] Bright Vanquisher

If we can't even take down the people outside if things go south with a 10% bonus, we we're probably screwed going in. On the flip side any idea at all what we're in for could be near priceless
 
The real reason why the Apocryphal Curse left off if we chose Temple is that it knew we would get cocky and saunter right up to these people when we got here, at least one of whom will then proceed to permanently take another limb off our dwindling stock.
 
If we can't even take down the people outside if things go south with a 10% bonus, we we're probably screwed going in. On the flip side any idea at all what we're in for could be near priceless

That's a really good point, if we are so outclassed by the people going in there we aren't going to have much of a chance inside.
 
Oh yeah, that. I could've told you guys, but it was funny seeing you trying to rig the vote and shit.
Uh, pardon? I don't see how anyone could even rig the vote in this quest, much less how I or anyone else was doing it.
Now Bilbo. I know the ring is... precious... to you. But we've talked about this.
I'm not going back to any RA meetings! I can handle this by myself, yes, by myself, hehehe.
[] The Ring The Ring THE RING THE RING THERINGTHERINGTHERING

[X] The Barest Cut
[X] Investigate the Main Entrance
 
Alright guys, remember the true superpower - s a v i n g

Your goal is not to go "hey, I am convinced that this vote is the strongest!", your goal is to extract maximum value from Moon dungeon. That means that we are here to pick the most optimal growth curve for clearing the dungeon, which is what Cut provides. Value of Arete spent on 7AP option and value of Arete spent in dungeon are both greater, and together even more so. So ride tha efficiency train for maximum gains.

And it's not like the build is even weak; you gain the same amount of stats Vanquisher does(+1Str/Agi vs +2Con) with difference only being access to form/upgraded super move. Indeed, with Thousand Cuts we get that alpha strike ability which would allow us to win our first battle and get our super scaling ball rolling.
Mm, not quite. It's usually 2-3 of the popular plans with no or small modifications, then 1-2 plans that I create to address capabilities the popular plans may lack. Like Balance, for example.
It's a chicken egg kind of deal. Usually we have two to three distinct votes anyway.
 
Where did you draw that conclusion from?
Claim 1: Our knife-fight discussion about plan votes generated Arete
I suppose it's possible that Arete generation is causally unrelated to Plan discussion, but the upward trend of Arete means that our total budget was unknown at the beginning of the process.

Claim 2: Plans were devised before knowing our budget constraint.
Voting for plans with expenditures < 11 may be partially explained by optimism about the temple and/or marginal propensity to save Arete. However, I think it is unreasonable to assert that there is NO inertia benefitting plans devised under the initial 9 Arete budget constraint.
 
[X] Hail the Outpost
[X] Bright Vanquisher

If we can't even take down the people outside if things go south with a 10% bonus, we we're probably screwed going in. On the flip side any idea at all what we're in for could be near priceless

Not quite!

"If I can't kill the guys who think they can beat the dungeon, I can't beat the dungeon."

A level 20 wizard thinks he can beat a level 10 dungeon. A level 11 character therefore shouldn't bother challenging the dungeon?

Too bad Verschle doesn't have a power level scanner...

There are a lot of magic types that never make it out of the Voyaging Realm, so any such scanner wouldn't be fully reliable within! Though notable magicians congregated at this density are a relative rarity inside, with most people and societies being mundane more or less. Still, this is presumably a highly dangerous and lucrative zone for dungeoneering...
 
Our Current Stats look like this:

++INT, ++++CHA, +Strength, +Constitution, ++++AGI

Taking into account the addons from the different plans, things look like this:

Immortal Regiment(Adds ++++Str, +++Agi, +++++Con):

++INT, ++++CHA, +++++Strength, ++++++Constitution, +++++++AGI

Murderer's Panopoly(Adds ++++Str, +++Agi, +++++Con):

++INT, ++++CHA, +++++Strength, ++++++Constitution, +++++++AGI

Bright Vanquisher(Adds ++Str, ++Agi, +++++Con):

++INT, ++++CHA, +++Strength, ++++++Constitution, ++++++AGI

The Barest Cut(Adds +++Str, +++Agi, +++Con):


++INT, ++++CHA, ++++Strength, ++++Constitution, +++++++AGI

The Forbidden(Adds ++Prot, +Cha, +Str, +Agi, ++++Con):

++INT, +++++CHA, ++Strength, +++++Constitution, +++++AGI, ++Protection
 
Think about this rationally. What kind of person would willingly go to the Temple of the False Moon and encamp outside? How is this likely to interact with the Doom of the Tyrant? As with fishing, the Tyrant Beast or the Temple itself, just because an option is offered certainly doesn't mean it's safe, and even if safe in the short-term, it may not be in the medium-term or afterwards.

Voting for plans with expenditures < 11 may be partially explained by optimism about the temple and/or marginal propensity to save Arete. However, I think it is unreasonable to assert that there is NO inertia benefitting plans devised under the initial 9 Arete budget constraint.

Sure, but that doesn't affect the plans that made it to this vote, since they were modified to account for increased budget if it would significantly help them.

Alright guys, remember the true superpower - s a v i n g

Your goal is not to go "hey, I am convinced that this vote is the strongest!", your goal is to extract maximum value from Moon dungeon. That means that we are here to pick the most optimal growth curve for clearing the dungeon, which is what Cut provides. Value of Arete spent on 7AP option and value of Arete spent in dungeon are both greater, and together even more so. So ride tha efficiency train for maximum gains.

The true superpower would be taking on reasonable levels of risk and using Progression to acquire substantial abilities anyway... Now that you're here, some might say the priority should be survival.

The real reason why the Apocryphal Curse left off if we chose Temple is that it knew we would get cocky and saunter right up to these people when we got here, at least one of whom will then proceed to permanently take another limb off our dwindling stock.

I think they'd probably just kill you! No reason to stop at a limb of all things!
 
Actually, if Ber is in anyway representative of the usual sorts around here, we definitely want to avoid the camp.

[X] Investigate the Main Entrance
[X] Murderer's Panoply
 
Think about this rationally. What kind of person would willingly go to the Temple of the False Moon and encamp outside? How is this likely to interact with the Doom of the Tyrant? As with fishing, the Tyrant Beast or the Temple itself, just because an option is offered certainly doesn't mean it's safe, and even if safe in the short-term, it may not be in the medium-term or afterwards.

Speculation: People confident in their own personal power, people with similar psychological profiles to Darkest Dungeon player characters, the desperate, the crazy?
 
[X] Murderer's Panoply

This build gives extremely substantial immediate power, while avoiding some of the spending inefficiencies associated with purchasing 2 Arete instead of 7 Arete options, since it allows us to "upgrade" to Undying Vanguard relatively painlessly later.

I'll hold off on the question of approaching the base for now, since I want to hear more arguments before I decide.
 
[X] Hail the Outpost
[X] Immortal Regiment


I like immortal regiment because it means we can take Gisena in with us, so she can figure out the sliding tile puzzles while we dum-dum our way through endless hordes of monsters.
 
Boosting our charisma/social power seems like the kind of thing that'd improve the odds of success when it comes to Hailing the outpost. If we can get in far enough, learn about peoples magic systems, we improve our groundwork for the possibility of taking Philosopher's Wreath in the future.
 
[X] Investigate the Main Entrance
Quickest bought us time so this is free Arete.

[X] Immortal Regiment
Gisena's utility is too high to pass up and we get our STATS too.
 
Boosting our charisma/social power seems like the kind of thing that'd improve the odds of success when it comes to Hailing the outpost. If we can get in far enough, learn about peoples magic systems, we improve our groundwork for the possibility of taking Philosopher's Wreath in the future.

Perhaps. But there are situations which the Doom of the Tyrant can create that no amount of Charisma would rescue you from.

Seriously, why take the risk? Do you guys think they won't kill you just because the Apocryphal Curse is defrayed? Such things can still happen from simple causality. Should I have put "X% chance of death" on the option?

Well, that's the last I'll say on this particular point. Now you guys can't say I didn't warn you! Perhaps I'll weigh arguments more heavily on this vote since most of the votes are blanks.

Accretion not magic confirmed.

I believe the Druids, Clerics, Sorcerers and Magi would like a word with you...
 
Verschlengorge loomed long over the land. And the Temple loomed long over Verschlengorge. Both The Lady Gisena and Letrizia stood still just before the gaping maw of the False Moon.

Gisena held her arms crossed tightly as the hero so boldly, so foolishly, went on alone.
She had pressed only so far as the Tyrant's curse would allow, daring to go no further than suggestion. He was adamant though that he bear the risk. Acknowledging, and accepting, that she would be an immeasurable boon against the dark artifices that no doubt lay within. Even still, the risk of her demise was too much for his conscious, and what was left of the crater that once contained his heart.

The sun was only just setting, but already it was cold. Chill beyond any rationality emanated from the edifice. The False Moon seemed to drain the very earth of it's warmth, and sans the sun nothing save their bodies had any to offer. Before she had even realized it, both she and Letrizia found themselves running. The world between Gisena and the gate became cracked It froze and crusted and all life ceased within the shadow of the Temple.

Only behind the sturdy frame of Verschlengorge did the ill wind recede. The looming giant almost seemed to resonate for a moment as the frost kissed the lands about him. Then, by whatever cosmic force powered him, the oppressive chill was willed to cease.

It was now obvious that this was by design, that nothing short of a being resonant with Astral could interrupt the proceeding within. As though to confirm her thoughts, Gisena could feel pockets of instability. Soon the ravenous unceasing Astral beasts would be gracing their presence once again.

By her reckoning they would have about an hour before it would become too cumbersome to keep shutting down the rifts. In the meantime, she started handwriting an immaculate little note for her hero. She hoped he would never have to find it.

---------------------

Hunger. Too apt. It was all he had in this cold desolate place. The entrance had long since faded behind him, his companions falling further away with every step. His footfalls echoed forward, and forward, further, and yet even further beyond. Yet nothing greeted him. Not the return of his steps, not the howling of a mad beast, not even the jarring Snap of a trigger trap.

He had nothing within this place, and this place held nothing for him. Minutes stretched to hours which stretched for seemingly days, yet that was impossible. Never growing tired. Never growing weary. Only growing Hungry. Hunger was not alien concept to him before this, yet in a place so devoid of everything else why did the manifestation of gluttony burn so brightly upon his finger?

The cold dark recesses of this place were like iron ramparts. Even as he willed fate, Demanded, that it bend... nothing happened. Astral was burned, the flame grew, yet it was consumed before him, ineffectual against the power proliferating this place. It was almost maddening, and had he not been fully lost once before in his life, he would surely have submitted to the dark will of this place.

But the ring that was a part of him, as much as his beating heart, yet thrummed soundly in his hand. Still it burned. And still he felt it. If Fate would not bend, if the Cold would not abate, if this place itself was False, he began to understand. He needed to Feed. To concume the chill and master the concept of entropy.

This entire place was an amalgamation of fate, all that entered it's halls were being subsumed into a greater being. A greater concept. Any earlier and Hunger too would have been another casualty in this edifices bowels. But he had a way to pass through the cold, to become a being untethered by the rational world. Deftly, before he faded anymore, he grasped the Forebear's Blade and embraced the Chill of the Grave.

--------------

Letrizia slumped in Verschs' cockpit. blood pooling beneath her. it stained her hair, dripped and congealed about her. She smiled, bitterly. They had held on through nearly four hours of blistering combat, blanketing the viscera of fantastical beasts across the land. Horned behemoths so large that they concussed the earth with every step, winged battalions of narrow visored simulacrum, thick with the chill that eclipsed this place. And at the end of the day they claimed victory.

Yet it proved to be only the first day. This was the second, but already the pace had proved itself fatal to the hero's allies. Gisena was clutched, presumably alive, in the left hand of Versch. Letrizia herself knew that she was wounded beyond the scope of bandages and prayers, she needed the warm glow of the Pristine to make it through the night.

Their only respite lied in the path forward, and the only way left was up. The creatures below bayed and howled, but Versch was empowered by something seemingly even beyond the astral. Her imputs were clunky and slow, yet on the ascent he never wavered. Further towards the gaping maw in the clouds he climbed. Soaring now as they passed beyond them. She saw him then.

At the peak, on the precipice of the tower was the ghost of a man. it's one arm gripped a blade, and draped about it was the evening itself, somehow even more brilliant than the stars that glittered behind him. Letting out a deep sigh, she felt the weariness that only the potent injection of adrenaline can achieve. It appeared her journey home may continue after all.

----------------

I don't know exactly how bonuses work, but if i get to credit this towards something, let it be our success in the next battle.


P.S. Well, it's my first time writing something. Anything outside of an English class anyway! Hitting that post reply button is certainly the most difficult part of this.
 
[X] Bright Vanquisher
[X] Hail the Outpost


Let's not go in blind, if Letrizia isn't aware of a bounty on her head or an Astral Lord recruiting mercenaries en masse, then it's unlikely these people will default to hostility. It's only been a few days, spreading the word takes time. With Gisena's help, we ought to be able to engage safely; at the very least an encampment means some level of cooperation between delvers. We can't avoid human interaction because of the Doom forever.

As for the build, we've got the Arete to employ the Form of Rage safely now. This solidifies our statblock without spending all our reserves, letting us save up for picks within the Temple or unleash our currently final form if necessary. In terms of total health, it's the toughest build on the field, which should be considered when every option but the Regiment goes in solo. The Divinities desired a Dark Lord worthy of the name, Bearic wants a boss fight? Well, as the saying goes: be careful what you wish for.
 
Right, taking that pointed hint... the Arete gained from Investigating the Main entrance makes 11 Arete builds slightly more palatable.

[X] Investigate the Main Entrance
[X] The Forbidden
 
[X] Investigate the Main Entrance
[X] Immortal Regiment


Free arete is always good. It's interesting that these guys are clustered around the side entrance rather than the main one though. Maybe the main entrance is more dangerous or takes longer? We have the time to check anyway since we took the quickest route.

Vanguard is still the best pick, it comes with lots of stats and makes our companions more capable. This is very useful because Gisena has a diverse skill set that differs from ours in a lot of ways so the range of problems we can solve with her help is much broader than those we can solve by ourselves. Without Vanguard we're leaving two squishy party members by themselves outside of a murder dungeon where one ambush could easily kill the both of them.

Zea hasn't even finished healing yet so without Vanguard's regen she's going to be still injured while we're inside even though Versch is repaired.
 
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