- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
I'm certain she would puff her cheeks out and pout if you told her so!
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
I'm certain she would puff her cheeks out and pout if you told her so!
- Location
- Pindorama
This one is per build.
Inserted tally
Inserted tally
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
She still broke through, and will have Vanguard backing her up. Besides, the plan is not to rely on her for offense, but to use a joint offense to bring anything sufficiently strong down.
No? I'm arguing that it's specialized into exactly what he says, and the drawback is that it is not nearly so useful in any other situation. Which is about par-for-course for 7 Arete options.
Rihaku
The Internet
But would it be cute, or vexatious?
By the way guys, the Irisdescence + Thousand Cuts build is worth a look for those interested in Thousand Cuts. ++Protection, broader Protection, and +Charisma alongside one Echo's worth of stats gives great survivability, while Thousand Cuts brings offensive punch. It is a bit low on the number of Echoes taken, but there's no utterly perfect build!
I'm really not sure whether mental builds are competative! The King Fish which guarded the map to this temple seemed to be an entirely physical encounter. The crux of the choice seems to be security, we're expecting an enormous threat and banking on an enormous reward to justify our investment. So the question is whether we need more esoteric defense and utility as provided by mental options, or more damage throughput and/or burst as provided by physical options, or more tankyness as provided by cloak!
I'm generally in favor of physical agression over physical defense, since I'm led to believe we're in a decent place with defensive choices thus far, but lagging behind in offensive stats.
So, which is more likely? Nefarious traps and puzzle gimmicks, or fog doors with big half-animal half-person full-healthbar bosses inside? Swarms of moonmen bum rushing us down, or gleaming windows into the moon-that-could-be, damaging our mind and resolve with truths as well as lies?
Our leads are:
Color analysis (fun but I've never trusted it outside memes)
The name, which could be associated with the Lunacy curse, I suppose. Hardly the first temple to be named after a celestial body, or defamed as untrue!
The architecture - Tall big, kinda spooky, very white/blue palette.
tl;dr I dunno man, I usually build STR in dungeon crawlers!
I'm generally in favor of physical agression over physical defense, since I'm led to believe we're in a decent place with defensive choices thus far, but lagging behind in offensive stats.
So, which is more likely? Nefarious traps and puzzle gimmicks, or fog doors with big half-animal half-person full-healthbar bosses inside? Swarms of moonmen bum rushing us down, or gleaming windows into the moon-that-could-be, damaging our mind and resolve with truths as well as lies?
Our leads are:
Color analysis (fun but I've never trusted it outside memes)
The name, which could be associated with the Lunacy curse, I suppose. Hardly the first temple to be named after a celestial body, or defamed as untrue!
The architecture - Tall big, kinda spooky, very white/blue palette.
tl;dr I dunno man, I usually build STR in dungeon crawlers!
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
Yes it does it increases our con substanitially. It also means we don't have to rely on fell handed strike as much as a Cuts build does.
Blasphemy! Did you not see how excited Gisena was by the rain this update! How upbeat and positive she always is! Her constant witty banter! These things are the essence of cuteness!
Depends how fast we attack I guess? If we're landing dozens of attacks at a time a 10 percent chance to crit looks pretty damn good!
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
[X] Plan Sorcery
-[X] Evening Sky - Philosopher's Wreath - 7 Arete (2 picks)
-[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear + Undying Echo
As Rihaku has repeatedly pointed out, Philosopher's Wreath provides major bonuses to noncombat situations as well as 8-hour duration powerup sequence that is basically guaranteed to be synergistic with our magical system*. In a dungeon crawl, being smart about dangers is incredibly invaluable. I feel people are seriously underestimating the power of this option in the short-run (before even considering long-run benefits).
Basically, what if we meet an encounter we can't solve via SWORD? Philospher's Wreath is the best hedge against that (in addition to providing major help to SWORD-type problems).
*In EFB terms, we can basically get Beyond/Further Beyond Might (1/2 Stages), compared to Beyond/Further Beyond Organ Refining (0.25/0.5 Stages).
If Rihaku posted even a single Grace we could get via Sorcery, the tides would likely turn substantially.
-[X] Evening Sky - Philosopher's Wreath - 7 Arete (2 picks)
-[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear + Undying Echo
As Rihaku has repeatedly pointed out, Philosopher's Wreath provides major bonuses to noncombat situations as well as 8-hour duration powerup sequence that is basically guaranteed to be synergistic with our magical system*. In a dungeon crawl, being smart about dangers is incredibly invaluable. I feel people are seriously underestimating the power of this option in the short-run (before even considering long-run benefits).
Basically, what if we meet an encounter we can't solve via SWORD? Philospher's Wreath is the best hedge against that (in addition to providing major help to SWORD-type problems).
*In EFB terms, we can basically get Beyond/Further Beyond Might (1/2 Stages), compared to Beyond/Further Beyond Organ Refining (0.25/0.5 Stages).
If Rihaku posted even a single Grace we could get via Sorcery, the tides would likely turn substantially.
Last edited:
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
This is another advantage of the Vanguard build! Since we get to bring Gisena we can work together to take down any puzzles and traps. We'd make a good team for that, particularly with her passive healing from Vanguard.
- Location
- Pindorama
If you rely on nullification to bring enemies down, you are just relying on her in general. We were lucky with the King Fish that we had him reeled and so he had to move as we wanted to. Other enemies won't give us that luxury. If she has dispellate indiscriminately, we basically wouldn't be able to use her.
And I'm sating that the situation that it's useful for is more more critical than bringing Gisena along. Which is the point.
We already have ++INT and the benefits of Rank, we are far more prepared for that then a serious boss fight.
Rihaku
The Internet
Both mental builds offer substantial physical edge as well, alongside lateral offense and esoteric defense / utility!
Ring - Boosts all stats, can take Echo for more stats, boosts Rank by +.5 (!)
Philosophers - Boosts physical stats quite a lot actually, you can take it alongside Undying Echo for +STR +AGI ++++CON on top, and you get a Grace which could just be a ton of stats!
You certainly won't be landing several dozen Fell-Handed Strokes against one!
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
[X] Plan Gisena Supremacy!
[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
[X] Forebear's Blade - Fall of Night - 2 Arete
[X] Forebear's Blade - Undying Vanguard - 7 Arete.
[X] Gisena - Sorcerous Advancement I
Here's a plan vote to try and make deciphering the vote tally results a bit easier.
[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
[X] Forebear's Blade - Fall of Night - 2 Arete
[X] Forebear's Blade - Undying Vanguard - 7 Arete.
[X] Gisena - Sorcerous Advancement I
Here's a plan vote to try and make deciphering the vote tally results a bit easier.
My chief concern with Vanguard builds is Verschlengorge's safety, not Letrizia's or Gisena's or our own. We can't apply the effect to our robot pal, and I'm worried we'll be in there too long, leaving Letrizia to fight off Astral horrors by herself. I'm sure she'd survive, but I doubt she could see them off efficiently enough to prevent some serious paint job problems.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
If we picked a pure physical stats grace (say STR since we're weak there), how much +s could we get?
- Location
- Earth
>becoming Hunger: Shadows Die Twice
>going to the temple
in a different timeline...
gisena is of course actually quite good at video games, but that apocryphal curse tho...
>going to the temple
in a different timeline...
gisena is of course actually quite good at video games, but that apocryphal curse tho...
ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
You know what? We could just take 3x Echos and Thousand Cuts. It gets 2 less Str and Con then Ruinous Valor, but get 3 more Agility, and our Agility is already really high so this lets us go SUPERSONIC SPEED and kill thing with Thousand Cuts while dodging all the things.
...The fact that this seems honestly pretty viable just proves your point about us not having taken enough Echos is the past.
Wait.
I didn't even consider this! Taking Undying without Vanguard - that's genius! It gets us a ton of stats, more stats from the Grace, and opens the path to picking up Vanguard later! I have a new favorite build maybe.
Wait, if we pick that, do we get another build vote before we go in?
Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
Just realized that Thousand Cuts is mandatory. We have to close the swordbeam gap!
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Where are you getting the idea that I'm relying on nullification to bring enemies down? It's a bonus to what we can do.
Rihaku's devil's advocacy seems to be suggesting otherwise, unfortunately.
With vanguard she should be more than able to hold, including protecting the robot.
We actually get useful Swordbeam with Fall of Night!
Last edited:
Talace
It must be raining somewhere else!
[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the ForebearX2
[X] Forebear's Blade - Fall of Night - 2 Arete
[X] Forebear's Blade - A Thousand Cuts - 7 Arete (0 picks)
[X] Letrizia - Hollow Star
The Path of the Muscle Wizard never truly left us. I'd vote for Ruinous Valor if it wasn't also important that we get Agility to be able to strike opponents that would otherwise dodge. I don't believe that the speed Amaranth Star gives us enough-- and as such the way forward is Echo spam. It is time for the [Locker of the Forebear]!
[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the ForebearX2
[X] Forebear's Blade - Fall of Night - 2 Arete
[X] Forebear's Blade - A Thousand Cuts - 7 Arete (0 picks)
[X] Letrizia - Hollow Star
The Path of the Muscle Wizard never truly left us. I'd vote for Ruinous Valor if it wasn't also important that we get Agility to be able to strike opponents that would otherwise dodge. I don't believe that the speed Amaranth Star gives us enough-- and as such the way forward is Echo spam. It is time for the [Locker of the Forebear]!
ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
[X] Philosopher's Wreath - 7 Arete (2 picks)
[X] Echo of the Forebear
-[X] Undying Echo - 2 Arete
That's three picks and 9 Arete, gets us Sorcery (Across the board stat boosts, including things like Luck, and a Grace), +Str, ++++Con, +Agility
It's low on offense, so we'll want to pick up a Grace that does that. It also opens up the path to getting Undying Vanguard in the future, and it buffs Gisena via Wreath.
[X] Echo of the Forebear
-[X] Undying Echo - 2 Arete
That's three picks and 9 Arete, gets us Sorcery (Across the board stat boosts, including things like Luck, and a Grace), +Str, ++++Con, +Agility
It's low on offense, so we'll want to pick up a Grace that does that. It also opens up the path to getting Undying Vanguard in the future, and it buffs Gisena via Wreath.
- Location
- Pindorama
The main benefit of Gisena is her dispellation. To compensate for the added value of other picks does imply relying on her. If you are bringing Gisena along just because it be nice; I'd argue that Thousand Cuts does a lot more than being nice. An extra tank doesn't help us against what we truly need to worry about. Fall plus Echo is just so behind offensively.
1/3 extra damage isn't really a swordbeam though.
Last edited:
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
I'm wary of picking that when we have no idea what Graces we will have access to. and hence if any will be situationally appropriate.
It only matters against something with beyond ridiculous defense. Anything else Thousand Cuts isn't much better suited for than what we already have, though it is a nice boost to take things out that would survive a few hits in one.
Last edited:
TwistedJester
Tired Lurker King
- Location
- Hell
[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
[X] Forebear's Blade - Fall of Night - 2 Arete
[X] Forebear's Blade - Undying Vanguard - 7 Arete.
[X] Letrizia - Hollow Star
To be honest the only thing I'm really looking for is a plan that has Vanguard winning.
[X] Forebear's Blade - Fall of Night - 2 Arete
[X] Forebear's Blade - Undying Vanguard - 7 Arete.
[X] Letrizia - Hollow Star
To be honest the only thing I'm really looking for is a plan that has Vanguard winning.