You don't know whether he actually has backing from an Astral Lord, or whether the Astral Lord is just a "quest-giver" that offered him some reward for killing Verschlengorge. Now, is it likely that an Astral Lord would be opposed to the existence of Verschlengorge? Certainly. Are they necessarily allied to this Gamer character? Possibly not.
 
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What are you even talking about? We're not teleporting into a different realm, we don't have that capability. He's simply somewhere else in the Voyager Realm, and we'd be hunting him down thanks to the coordinates he left behind.
 
I think the reason for the Press the Attack votes is people are worried about this guy coming after us later if we don't hit him while he's down, and I think that's a valid concern. He could well show up while we're dealing with a separate Apocryphal proc, or just become dangerous enough on his own to be a serious problem.
Oh, he will come after us.

It's just irrelevant. We have apocryphal. There will literally never be a time we do not have someone near our level coming after us.

You don't know whether he actually has backing from an Astral Lord, or whether the Astral Lord is just a "quest-giver" that offered him some reward for killing Verschlengorge. Now, is it like that an Astral Lord would be opposed to the existence of Verschlengorge? Certainly. Are they necessarily allied to this Gamer character? Possibly not.
They do not have to be allied for him to take advantage of us being one hit away from death. We have Doom of the Tyrant, so they can't force us to work for them. So if we clash with them we will be killed, and we are too weak to win that fight right now. They only need relative proximity, and we have no way to determine that.

What are you even talking about? We're not teleporting into a different realm, we don't have that capability. He's simply somewhere else in the Voyager Realm, and we'd be hunting him down thanks to the coordinates he left behind.
What are you talking about? That has no relevancy to my objection.
 
I also think Scent is going super underrated; it's the power to search for any power we want! How crazy is that!? If we have a critical lack of anything, we'd be able to hunt for it. That is absolutely insane together with our Progression. We can even search for more magic systems or enemies that increase our Rank! It's almost like having a Google for valuable enemies! Don't sleep on such a thing.
 
If the Astral Lord really wanted Verch dead it would have attacked itself. The fact that it did not implies inability, either due to other priorities or fundamental limitations.
 
I wouldn't say Scent lets you search for any power... it can definitely narrow things down between, say, "offense," "defense," "healing," and "none of those," and even prioritize enemies you can beat in your current state, but it's not Metafaculty or the like.

Very helpful in tracking Huntress' Moon targets, though. That much is true.
 
You were saying he's in some special realm protected by the Astral Lord, but there would be no hunting him down at all then.
No? I'm saying an Astral Lord may be paying attention to him and will take advantage of the situation to attempt to "recruit" us. And when Doom of the Tyrant prevents us from kneeling we die.

If the Astral Lord really wanted Verch dead it would have attacked itself. The fact that it did not implies inability, either due to other priorities or fundamental limitations.
Or politics. They can't be seen attacking the Armament of a rival, but using a third party is third game. As is trying to recruit/kill a third party that you find.
 
You were saying he's in some special realm protected by the Astral Lord, but there would be no hunting him down at all then.
His current location need not be an access restricted realm to be a place with its own protections and inhabitants, that may or may not have an opinion on us hunting down that guy, who may or may not be strong enough for us to have to worry about.
 
No? I'm saying an Astral Lord may be paying attention to him and will take advantage of the situation to attempt to "recruit" us. And when Doom of the Tyrant prevents us from kneeling we die.
In the same vein, when we search for creatures to kill for healing, what's to stop us from being ganked all of sudden?
 
It's just irrelevant. We have apocryphal. There will literally never be a time we do not have someone near our level coming after us.

This logic leads to never resolving anything because none of it matters. That's not generally how Apocryphal works though. Apocryphal can machine gun fire complications at us non stop, that doesn't mean it will though.

If we preemptively put an end to a scaling threat, that doesn't guarantee another one will immediately pop out of the woodwork, there can be lulls.
 
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His current location need not be an access restricted realm to be a place with its own protections and inhabitants, that may or may not have an opinion on us hunting down that guy, who may or may not be strong enough for us to have to worry about.
And even if they don't care about us killing him they may try to recruit us by force or just outright kill us as a potential threat. And we have Tyrant so we can't submit. So we die.

In the same vein, when we search for creatures to kill for healing, what's to stop us from being ganked all of sudden?
Nothing stops Rihaku from deciding "rocks fall, everyone dies". But that option is explicitly on the island we are on which does not have human habitation. On the other hand following the teleport could go anywhere in the realm.

This logic leads to never resolving anything because none of it matters. That's not generally how Apocryphal works though. Apocryphal can machine gun fire complications at us non stop, that doesn't mean it will though.
Pretty much. No point chasing lost prey when hurting. But I'm not saying we never pursue. Just that as we are now doing so is incredibly risky.

By the way, my own arguments here made me realize something horrifying.

Could the Tyrant have been a cursebearer with Apocryphal, Geas, and Doom of the Tyrant? ...I think we may have more or less literally have become our own enemy.
 
That Ber and the Astral Lord may not be cooperating doesn't preclude opportunism from the latter; we should definitely keep that in mind.
Very helpful in tracking Huntress' Moon targets, though. That much is true.
Good to have that confirmed; makes Scent a whole lot more crucial.
In the same vein, when we search for creatures to kill for healing, what's to stop us from being ganked all of sudden?
We can prioritize enemies who we know we can beat. Right now Ber is avoiding us because we have an unknown level, and he might tell that to the Astral Lord, if they are cooperating. However, if we show up at their doorstep, they can't exactly ignore us. And Rihaku confirmed Ber would be very hard to beat even had we been rested:
Still, even at full strength actually killing this guy would have been quite the feat.
 
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Nothing stops Rihaku from deciding "rocks fall, everyone dies". But that option is explicitly on the island we are on which does not have human habitation. On the other hand following the teleport could go anywhere in the realm.
If they care to that extent of helping the Gamer, are we not already dead?
Could the Tyrant have been a cursebearer with Apocryphal, Geas, and Doom of the Tyrant? ...I think we may have more or less literally have become our own enemy.
Doubt it. Progression would have been unbeatable since the Tyrant would have scalrd, and Combat is clearly too weak to be the Tyrant.
 
No? I'm saying an Astral Lord may be paying attention to him and will take advantage of the situation to attempt to "recruit" us. And when Doom of the Tyrant prevents us from kneeling we die.
Then we - hear me out - don't immediately attack like a berserker and explore the situation first instead.

And if the Lord could just smite things here, he'd do that instead of hiring this scrub.

This is by no means safe, but there is no need to exaggerate the dangers.
 
Then we - hear me out - don't immediately attack like a berserker and explore the situation first instead.

This is actually one of our explicit strengths yeah.

Planning and preparation are the keys to victory. Not because things will go to plan, but because greater experience wins the day, and improvisation is merely the accelerated form of preparation.
Synergy: As Planned - Competence bonus to creating and adjusting schemes.
 
[X] Recuperate
[X] Forebear's Blade
- What Rains May Come
[X] Fury


Getting more powerful as we loose health is a really good protection against death spiraling, and it lets us heal Letrizia right away.

[X] Once and Future

Sorry, but gotta get that Rank up
 
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I wouldn't say Scent lets you search for any power... it can definitely narrow things down between, say, "offense," "defense," "healing," and "none of those," and even prioritize enemies you can beat in your current state, but it's not Metafaculty or the like.

Very helpful in tracking Huntress' Moon targets, though. That much is true.

Well, keeping my vote on Scent then. Especially since Pillars of Creation seems to be falling behind. Having Access to Decimator Mitigation is crucial, and Scent also lets us search for a healing power for Zea.
 
The Gamer accused the Astral Lord of trying to screw him over, and acts like an asshole so far, so I don't think he is remotely on good terms with the Astral Lord.
 
[X] Once and Future
[X] Recuperate
[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
[X] Hunger
- Ring of Blood
[X] Evening Sky - Amaranth Star
[X] Fury


I'm not exactly impressed by the idea of hunting alone for some vague power that may or may not heal Lertrizia to full. Had we taken Tribulation I would have agreed, but as it is the Apocryphal Curse could just spawn a Dragon while on the hunt. If we have to deal with that Curse, at least we should stay with our companions.

Recuperate has synergy with Ring of Blood, bringing Hunger back to full health and mitigating his fatigue. Amaranth Star brings further mitigation - possibly enough to start using Ring of Power on Lertrizia - and a huge boost to Agility. Echo of the Forebear enhances physical aspects and boosts Agility even more (presumably ++++ is exponentinally better than +++).
 
Inserting tally
Adhoc vote count started by Unelemental on May 31, 2020 at 3:54 AM, finished with 195 posts and 38 votes.
 
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