A Simple Transaction I

DarkSideBard · May 30, 2020

Damn Gamers. I knew it would come to this eventually. Shame about the near-total party wipe, but when dining with Lord Hunger, you get what you ask for.

Rihaku said:
Hunger frowned. It almost sounded like this guy had come from Earth, or a realm like it.

I warned all of you about the thousandfold Isekai Chumps in my omake. I warned you, bro.

Rihaku said:
"Hate..." she rasped, blood flecking his cheek. "I... hate you..." 

He closed his eyes. "I know."

Whoever was talking about Hunger/Gisena blackrom in the thread before, move aside. This is like some classic novel blackrom plot conclusion, shit.

Rihaku said:
But don't underestimate this guy's short-term growth curve.

"I'll just go grind mobs for a few months and come back at a way higher level! It's not like anyone can escalate harder than I, The Gamer. Certainly not a hidden boss with parameters my system can't even grasp whatsoever!"

Rihaku said:
"Information not found..." the intruder whispered, eyes going wide. "System, what the fuck is this? Some kind of hidden boss bullshit?"

This guy is overconfident and overreliant on his system for tactical decisions. He's gonna show up later, thinking that he's outleveled us in the interim (can't read our info and therefore can't tell the difference), and THAT is when we'll beat his ass.

Actually, on second thought, we'll use Scent of Prey to catch him where we want him. If we wait for his return he'll just be an Apocryphal Curse proc right in a bad situation.

[X] Hunt for Healing
[X] Hunger - Ring of Blood
[X] Hunger - Scent of Prey
[X] Fury - +1 pick above

Healing needs to happen. I won't say that it's our fault for not taking King's Blood; without the extra might of Vigor we might have been even worse off as a party. But I'd rather not leave Letrizia in this state.

If I'm advocating looking for healing, I've got to say that Echo and Opalescence aren't good enough. What Rains and Treachery aren't specific enough for this situation, though if we all came out unscathed I'd probably be pulling for Treachery. I think it's between Ring of Blood and Amaranth Star, with Scent of Prey being unquestionably necessary for a decent chance of success (plus taking care of Ber later, and generally hunting specific capabilities). Is it better to have our arm back and some general healing capabilities in the long term? Or is it better to gain agility and mitigate the Exhausted condition that continually plagues us? Or maybe the right move is even to not hunt, take Ring of Blood and Amaranth Star, and a non-Fury option, and just wait to heal?? Bluh.

In the end I think Ring of Blood has high long-term potential for closing out the "healing" question, especially combined with whatever we pull from this hunt. It doesn't relieve the burden of exhaustion, but I think having our arm back for the hunt is more important than getting faster and slightly less Astrally impaired.

Orm Embar · May 30, 2020

Unelemental said:
The more I hear about the Forebear, the more I'm led to believe that 'be like the Forebear' is the solution to most our problems

Words of wisdom. Why mess with a proven recipe for success? If the hand of destiny moves against us, so be it. We will show our foes that there is always a greater power. But, for now:

[X] Hunt for Healing
[X] Evening Sky - Amaranth Star
[X] Hunger - Scent of Prey
[X] Fury - +1 pick above

Time to take a leaf out of Noboru's book and learn speed, of both body and advancement. Scent is a versatile tracking power that will pull its weight long after Letrizia's restored, since Hunger's reliant on enemies. We can get leads on Huntress' Moon targets, enemies we can kill for powerups, all that good stuff. It only gets better once we get access to the Human Sphere's internet. Amaranth lets us track down healing faster, mitigates our conditions, and avoid taking further damage. It's a one-off, but I can see an argument for Ring of Blood here too.

BrainInAJar · May 30, 2020

Byzantine said:
if we choose recuperate and Ring of Blood, would we be able to heal Let sufficiently in time she doesn't face permanent injury?

Rihaku said:
Waiting to heal her will result in significant scarring and nerve damage, though that can be resolved with further Progression over time.

Considering the above statement, I don't think so, considering we'd need to rest for a full day for the Exhausted condition to be removed, and that's if we can actually use our healing ability while still Tired. I wouldn't count on it, it's what I'm saying.

Shard said:
What? It's the opposite of risky. One of our major issues is entering a vicious cycle where [less hp] -> [less effectiveness] -> [lose even more hp, repeat] positive feedback loop until we're dead. Apocryphal Curse scaling to us at max HP and with no conditions. This fixes that glaring risk, turning the positive feedback loop into a negative feedback loop: [less hp] -> [more effectiveness] -> [reduced hp loss].

That's way better if we weren't heavily wounded and plan to be even more wounded by taking Letrizia's damage. And again, it doesn't heal us, so repeated battles are still a problem. Even if we are stronger, as long as each enemy damages us a little bit each we'd still die in the end. This isn't a sustain option, is what I'm saying.

However, now that I said the above; Rain be would absolutely insane with any healing option. So that plus Hunt for Healing so we can fix ourselves is absolutely a valid vote.

OctarineShrike · May 30, 2020

Rihaku said:
If your priority is to heal Letrizia, What Rains May Come is right there... it's quite a powerful ability in its own right, as well! Imagine, only growing steadily stronger as your enemies attempt to wear you down, or transposing an otherwise-lethal wound from one of your squishy companions onto yourself, thereby also entering a super mode!

That's surprising. I thought taking this route was just Emiya Syndrome at first glance/didn't understand what precisely was met by reversing wound penalties.

Byzantine · May 30, 2020

BrainInAJar said:
Considering the above statement, I don't think so, considering we'd need to rest for a full day for the Exhausted condition to be removed, and that's if we can actually use our healing ability while still Tired. I wouldn't count on it, it's what I'm saying.

That's why I'm asking. Basically "How much" of a delay is allowable.

MoeDeathStar · May 30, 2020

[X] Recuperate
[X] Hunger - Ring of Blood
[X] Evening Sky - Amaranth Star
[X] Coldly Calculating - +.75 Arete

Genesys · May 30, 2020

We need to pick an option to heal Letrizia, which would be either What Rains or Ring of Blood, or go searching.
If we keep getting exhausted ... things will go badly. So I would like Amaranth Star if we can afford it.

So, for recuperate:
Either of these would be acceptable. One expends significant Arete and thus takes the Arete, the other has to take Fury to afford What Rains.
[ ] Recuperate
[ ] Hunger - Ring of Blood - 2 Arete.
[ ] Evening Sky - Amaranth Star - 2 Arete.
[ ] Coldly Calculating - +.75 Arete

[ ] Recuperate
[ ] Forebear's Blade - What Rains May Come
[ ] Fury - +1 pick above

For Press the Attack:
When Pressing the Attack, we could use healing as a safety measure(and to heal Letrizia later), and Scent of Prey is fairly useful to track down Ber. Fury to afford both.
[ ] Press the Attack
[ ] Hunger - Ring of Blood - 2 Arete.
[ ] Hunger - Scent of Prey. [2 picks]
[ ] Fury - +1 pick above

If we instead just want to make sure we kill the guy if we manage to find him, pursue short-term power. Healing and Tired mitigation, and picking up the 1-pick power with Fury. This will, however, still be dangerous.
[ ] Press the Attack
[ ] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
[ ] Hunger - Ring of Blood - 2 Arete.
[ ] Evening Sky - Amaranth Star - 2 Arete.
[ ] Fury - +1 pick above

This may be a viable alternative for combat power, since it reverses our wound penalties. Note, however, that it doesn't heal us. While it's probably a bigger combat power leap, it's got much less HP as a buffer.
[ ] Press the Attack
[ ] Forebear's Blade - What Rains May Come
[ ] Fury - +1 pick above

If Hunting for Healing and ignoring the two possible healing options in this very vote, then it's more important to take power. (honestly, this just seems like a really bad idea.) Age and Treachery is likely the strongest of the short-term power options, Amaranth Star is a ward against getting ambushed after killing something for healing and getting Tired/Exhausted.
[ ] Hunt for Healing
[ ] Evening Sky - Amaranth Star - 2 Arete.
[ ] Feat - Age and Treachery. Gain +.25 Rank. [2 picks]
[ ] Fury - +1 pick above

Out of the combinations I've listed here, I'm inclined to pick this one, because Press the Attack is risky, and Hunt for Healing just seems flat-out dumb considering we have two options this vote that can heal Letrizia anyway. This heals us and Letrizia(though a bit later), plus it picks up Evening Star.
[X] Recuperate
[X] Hunger - Ring of Blood - 2 Arete.
[X] Evening Sky - Amaranth Star - 2 Arete.
[X] Coldly Calculating - +.75 Arete

lava beard of sorrow · May 30, 2020

[X] Recuperate - Rest for now until the Exhausted and Tired conditions clear, then continue onwards without diverging from the plan. It's likely you'll outscale this particular enemy without any special actions. Don't get distracted and focus on your own Progression.
[X] Feat - Age and Treachery. Gain +.25 Rank. [2 picks]
[X] Feat - Age and Treachery. Gain +.25 Rank. [2 picks]
[X] Coldly Calculating - +.75 Arete
Power levelling all the way baby. If at our current level and while exhausted we were strong enough to drive off Ber after killing his party than adding another 1.25 rank means that short of him pulling some Zang Kong nonsense i'm pretty confident we can kill him later whenever he turns up.

Shard · May 30, 2020

BrainInAJar said:
That's way better if we weren't heavily wounded and plan to be even more wounded by taking Letrizia's damage. And again, it doesn't heal us, so repeated battles are still a problem. Even if we are stronger, as long as each enemy damages us a little bit each we'd still die in the end. This isn't a sustain option, is what I'm saying.

However, now that I said the above; Rain be would absolutely insane with any healing option. So that plus Hunt for Healing so we can fix ourselves is absolutely a valid vote.

Why would we need to take the option that negates the need for immediate healing with the option that hunts for healing? That sounds like antisynergy to me.

Rihaku · May 30, 2020

Byzantine said:
@Rihaku, if we choose recuperate and Ring of Blood, would we be able to heal Let sufficiently in time she doesn't face permanent injury?

Probably not, but is such injury really permanent to the likes of a Progression-type Cursebearer? Just get an ability that heals so-called permanent damage completely!

Byzantine said:
He's literally an Isekai protagonist. And a fairly recent one. This is likely the first time Destiny has ever failed him. So... yeah, he honestly thinks his companions couldn't die... because short of us they couldn't.

Poor Seralize. She had it all planned out, and then she ran into Hunger...

Harried said:
If 'Ber' isn't killed, does he remain 'the apocryphal curse's attack', or does he just become 'a guy that hates you', such that Apocryphal could hit us again the moment he attacks, basically doubling it's power?

You don't know how the Apocryphal Curse works, but it's safest to assume that it can always hit you again, even if someone is currently its attack.

DarkSideBard said:
This guy is overconfident and overreliant on his system for tactical decisions. He's gonna show up later, thinking that he's outleveled us in the interim (can't read our info and therefore can't tell the difference), and THAT is when we'll beat his ass.

Or maybe he'll actually have outleveled you! He's sure to pull out all the stops against an unknown level threat, and without his party to ~~hold him back~~ suggest the path of prudence there's nothing to stop his relentless optimization!

Projectile · May 30, 2020

[X] Hunt for Healing
[X] Evening Sky - Amaranth Star
[X] Hunger - Scent of Prey
[X] Fury - +1 pick above

Upon further thought, I am an asshole who doesn't care much about Zee's health, cute kohai or not. Hence my initial vote. Having said that, I would find less enjoyment playing that asshole, so I have to make him Hunt for Healing, and the obvious options flow from that.

Now that I'm voting for Scent of Prey, I'm incredibly interested in it's limits. How quickly can he toggle "prey"? For example, the stated plan would be hunting a creature to kill, but could we also check if there's a doctor around? Having said that, I now realize I should also ask if we have to hunt-kill rather than just hunt-track. Originally thought the second, but the descriptive terms used and that it's a Hunger upgrade suggest otherwise. But how on earth is this enforceable? Hm

Could we tack on descriptors that we're unsure about to truth-check? "Ber, the blah blah within 1000km" to see if he's relatively close?

No, I don't think so, sincerity is probably important here. Bet it draws straight from our memory.

I am having a conversation with myself. "Yes, this is totally cheesable." "Nuh uh, it doesn't even cost Arete."

Redshirt Army · May 30, 2020

[X] Hunt for Healing
[X] Evening Sky - Amaranth Star
[X] Hunger - Scent of Prey
[X] Fury - +1 pick above

This is the best approach, I think. Kudos to Orm for compiling it. Scent of Prey and Amaranth Star will remain useful long into the future, and short of What Rains, this is the only option that gets Riz fully healed.

Shard · May 30, 2020

Personally I'd say Press the Attack + Rains (Fury) is the best option, since:

1. Being short-term outscaled and then attacked by this Gamer dude, possibly while the Apocryphal Curse 'procs' again so we get outnumbered or placed in a tactically disadvantageous situation is horrible and possibly fatal.
2. Rains is the option which maximizes our short term power and safety, by preventing death spirals and immediately resolving the current spiral.
a. It also heals Letrizia immediately, basically letting us have our cake as well as eating it. This healing is also guaranteed.
3. Requires no Arete expenditure, thus appealing to those who desire we save Arete and to then take a 7 Arete or 25 Arete option.

Consequently, I don't know why it is unpopular in the current voting.

Harried · May 30, 2020

Rihaku said:
You don't know how the Apocryphal Curse works, but it's safest to assume that it can always hit you again, even if someone is currently its attack.

In that case, it seems like we basically have to hunt down Ber, no matter how likely it is to kill us; otherwise the Curse can trivially multiply its power by hitting us with dangerous, but cowardly and vengeful enemies, such that each one we don't kill adds to the curse's next attack, quickly overwhelming our growth and ensuring our death.

Rihaku · May 30, 2020

Giving up on the Rank Upgrade train already? There's always Amaranth Star + Age and Treachery (+Hunt if you'd like to hunt)! That gets you some of your effective Rank back in a way that you don't have to spend 2 picks on a tracking-based ability.

Projectile said:
[X] Hunt for Healing
[X] Evening Sky - Amaranth Star
[X] Hunger - Scent of Prey
[X] Fury - +1 pick above

Upon further thought, I am an asshole who doesn't care much about Zee's health, cute kohai or not. Hence my initial vote. Having said that, I would find less enjoyment playing that asshole, so I have to make him Hunt for Healing, and the obvious options flow from that.

Now that I'm voting for Scent of Prey, I'm incredibly interested in it's limits. How quickly can he toggle "prey"? For example, the stated plan would be hunting a creature to kill, but could we also check if there's a doctor around? Having said that, I now realize I should also ask if we have to hunt-kill rather than just hunt-track. Originally thought the second, but the descriptive terms used and that it's a Hunger upgrade suggest otherwise. But how on earth is this enforceable? Hm

Could we tack on descriptors that we're unsure about to truth-check? "Ber, the blah blah within 1000km" to see if he's relatively close?

No, I don't think so, sincerity is probably important here. Bet it draws straight from our memory.

I am having a conversation with myself. "Yes, this is totally cheesable." "Nuh uh, it doesn't even cost Arete."

It's not spammable, no. It is extremely powerful and versatile, pulling information from basically nowhere to continuously update you on your target's location, but you can't change the target once acquired until the hunt is complete, and switching to a new target is non-trivial.

PrimeNumber · May 30, 2020

[X] Recuperate
[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
[X] Evening Sky - Opalescence
[X] Coldly Calculating

Simon_Jester · May 30, 2020

[X] Recuperate
[X] Evening Sky - Amaranth Star
[X] Feat - Age and Treachery.
[X] Fury - +1 pick above

Rank upgrades are powerful, Amaranth Star means we can keep up with faster opponents and so not be at as much risk of getting cut to ribbons, and recuperate is exactly what we need to avoid getting drawn into a death spiral of harder and harder fights.

Shard said:
Personally I'd say Press the Attack + Rains (Fury) is the best option, since:

1. Being short-term outscaled and then attacked by this Gamer dude, possibly while the Apocryphal Curse 'procs' again so we get outnumbered or placed in a tactically disadvantageous situation is horrible and possibly fatal.
2. Rains is the option which maximizes our short term power and safety, by preventing death spirals and immediately resolving the current spiral.
a. It also heals Letrizia immediately, basically letting us have our cake as well as eating it. This healing is also guaranteed.
3. Requires no Arete expenditure, thus appealing to those who desire we save Arete and to then take a 7 Arete or 25 Arete option.

Consequently, I don't know why it is unpopular in the current voting.

Because pressing the attack is extremely dangerous under these conditions. We're down a party member, we're seriously wounded, and Gisena is wounded too.

Shard · May 30, 2020

Harried said:
In that case, it seems like we basically have to hunt down Ber, no matter how likely it is to kill us; otherwise the Curse can trivially multiply its power by hitting us with dangerous, but cowardly and vengeful enemies, such that each one we don't kill adds to the curse's next attack, quickly overwhelming our growth and ensuring our death.

I mean it's a curse that's worth 2 curses. Essentially the Geas of Indenture, except optimized to kill you.

Simon_Jester said:
[X] Recuperate
[X] Evening Sky - Amaranth Star
[X] Hunger - Scent of Prey
[X] Fury - +1 pick above

Because pressing the attack is extremely dangerous under these conditions. We're down a party member, we're seriously wounded, and Gisena is wounded too.

Rains immediately resolves those conditions, though.

Rihaku · May 30, 2020

Shard said:
Personally I'd say Press the Attack + Rains (Fury) is the best option, since:

1. Being short-term outscaled and then attacked by this Gamer dude, possibly while the Apocryphal Curse 'procs' again so we get outnumbered or placed in a tactically disadvantageous situation is horrible and possibly fatal.
2. Rains is the option which maximizes our short term power and safety, by preventing death spirals and immediately resolving the current spiral.
a. It also heals Letrizia immediately, basically letting us have our cake as well as eating it. This healing is also guaranteed.
3. Requires no Arete expenditure, thus appealing to those who desire we save Arete and to then take a 7 Arete or 25 Arete option.

Consequently, I don't know why it is unpopular in the current voting.

Yup, Rains is definitely an extremely powerful choice in your current situation! Resolves two of your major problems at once and gives you a substantial combat buff.

Harried · May 30, 2020

Shard said:
I mean it's a curse that's worth 2 curses. Essentially the Geas of Indenture, except optimized to kill you.

What I'm trying to say is I see less "optimized to kill you", and more "certain to kill you", because it scales with your current power, and also scales with any attack it makes that ends non-lethally for the ammunition it uses.

OctarineShrike · May 30, 2020

I tried Combinatorics on the Builds:

2 Pick Recuperate Builds:

Echo of the Forebear+Opalescence - Might work if regaining our Spiritual Pressure is enough to Heal us completely. Abandons Letrizia until we can outpace her injuries with magic though and who knows when the fark that will be. The Arete Bonus... maybe? Let's not do this. Slightly better with Wolf Moon for giving us a clear mitigation opportunity when our current expires but this is still a terrible idea.

Echo of the Forebear+Ring of Blood - We need Ring of Blood. We have one charred arm right now. Coldly Calculating preserves our Arete reserve to adapt to circumstances, but I can see this with Ber being a mitigation target too.

Echo of the Forebear+Amaranth Star - The Agility seems like it'll make us a combat monster once we recover. Maybe worthy of consideration if we're letting Letrizia's wounds fester. Arete or Mitigation target seems equally good here

Opalescence+Ring of Blood = Maybe? Seems like a decent enough full recovery build.

Opalescence+Amaranth Star = No, we need Ring of Blood

Ring of Blood+Amaranth Star - Maybe with .75 Arete this is worthwhile if we're letting Letrizia's wounds fester. Healing, condition recovery, and a giant agility boost?

Scent of Prey - Tells us what direction Ber is in and may serve as a surprise attack warning sign if he doesn't use portals next time. Maybe?

Age and Treachery - Gets us another Rank and the recovery we need to use it.

3 Pick Recuperate Builds(Fury is implied as the Participation bonus in 3 pick builds):

Echo of the Forebear+Opalescence+Ring of Blood - Not bad if we're abandoning Letrizia
Echo of the Forebear+Opalescence+Amaranth Star - We need the ring of blood, the progression opportunity this provides isn't worth it with the damage to our arm
Echo of the Forebear+Scent of Prey - This doesn't seem like an eyesore but given lack of Ring of Blood I'm not enthusiastic about this
Echo of the Forebear+Age and Treachery - Quick Boost in power if we want to make this a power race between us and Ber.
Opalescence+Ring of Blood+Amaranth Star - Has potential if we're willing to spend the Arete I guess. There's probably better builds.
Opalescence+Scent of Prey - Paranoia build for spotting potential assassins that doesn't ensure we can keep up with them.
Opalescence+Age and Trachery - Synergizes with Evening Sky, possibly making this a better version of Echo of the Forebear+Age and Treachery
Ring of Blood+Scent of Prey - Maybe? This would be better if we could make Ber a Hunger Sated Proc too but we can't.
Ring of Blood+Age and Treachery - This seems like a solid 3 pick recuperate build
Amaranth Star+Scent of Prey - What's the point on a recuperate build
Amaranth Star+Age and Treachery - Has some potential I guess
What Rains May Come - Maybe? Depending on what our rank does for us this may have potential but I'm leery this just continues the deathspiral.

2 Pick Press the Attack Builds:

Echo of the Forebear+Opalescence - I am leery of this.

Echo of the Forebear+Ring of Blood - Antisynergy with Immediate Ber hunting, we can't heal much with this because we're exhausted

Echo of the Forebear+Amaranth Star - Seems like a decent setup to run him down. Take Wolf Moon and hope we get enough arete by the time we kill him to proc conclusion.

Opalescence+Ring of Blood = Antisynergy with Immediate Ber hunting, we can't heal much with this because we're exhausted

Opalescence+Amaranth Star = Seems like a better setup to run him down given our injuries. Take Wolf Moon and hope we get enough arete by the time we kill him to proc conclusion.

Ring of Blood+Amaranth Star - Antisynergy with Immediate Ber hunting, we can't heal much with this because we're exhausted

Scent of Prey - This seems ok for a Press the Attack build. We're going to want Wolf Moon to go with it though.

Age and Treachery - We can't make use of our rank. NO.

3 Pick Press the Attack Builds:

Echo of the Forebear+Opalescence+Ring of Blood - Antisynergy with Immediate Ber hunting, we can't heal much with this because we're exhausted

Echo of the Forebear+Opalescence+Amaranth Star - Antisynergy with Immediate Ber hunting, we can't heal much with this because we're exhausted

Echo of the Forebear+Scent of Prey - Leery because too little defense

Echo of the Forebear+Age and Treachery - We can't make use of our rank. NO.

Opalescence+Ring of Blood+Amaranth Star - Antisynergy with Immediate Ber hunting, we can't heal much with this because we're exhausted

Opalescence+Scent of Prey - Maybe?

Opalescence+Age and Treachery - We can't make use of our rank. NO.

Ring of Blood+Scent of Prey - Antisynergy with Immediate Ber hunting, we can't heal much with this because we're exhausted

Ring of Blood+Age and Treachery - We can't make use of our rank. NO.

Amaranth Star+Scent of Prey - Great for running down prey when exhausted. We should totally do this.

Amaranth Star+Age and Treachery - We can't make use of our rank. NO.

What Rains May Come - I have had enough of high risk Yoloing. NO.

2 Pick Hunt for Healing Builds:

Echo of the Forebear+Opalescence - I am leery of this.

Echo of the Forebear+Ring of Blood - Antisynergy, we can't heal much with this because we're exhausted

Echo of the Forebear+Amaranth Star - Seems like a decent setup to run prey down. Maybe take the Arete with this one?

Opalescence+Ring of Blood = Antisynergy, we can't heal much with this because we're exhausted

Opalescence+Amaranth Star = Get some Arete and this would be a decent search for prey build if we could find some. Take Fury if you're going for an Amaranth Star build

Ring of Blood+Amaranth Star - Antisynergy, we can't heal much with this because we're exhausted

Scent of Prey - We're going to want more to go with this given how injured/exhausted we are.

Age and Treachery - We can't make use of our rank. NO.

3 Pick Hunt For Healing Builds:

Echo of the Forebear+Opalescence+Ring of Blood - Less bad than on Press the Attack but still seems like a bad idea

Echo of the Forebear+Opalescence+Amaranth Star - We hunt and we get stuff to minimize our chance of further injury. Not too bad but a scent of prey build is better

Echo of the Forebear+Scent of Prey - Amaranth Star is better here

Echo of the Forebear+Age and Treachery - We can't make use of our rank. NO.

Opalescence+Ring of Blood+Amaranth Star - Less bad than on Press the Attack but still seems like a bad idea

Opalescence+Scent of Prey - Maybe?

Opalescence+Age and Treachery - We can't make use of our rank. NO.

Ring of Blood+Scent of Prey - This has potential albeit not as much as on Press the Attack

Ring of Blood+Age and Treachery - We can't make use of our rank. NO.

Amaranth Star+Scent of Prey - This Sounds Great.

Amaranth Star+Age and Treachery - We can't make use of our rank. NO.

What Rains May Come - Maybe? Changes the Game from killing something that gets us general healing powers to just something that'll get us pitiless maw. I'm not enthusiastic about it though. Emiya Syndrome.

Shard · May 30, 2020

Harried said:
What I'm trying to say is I see less "optimized to kill you", and more "certain to kill you", because it scales with your current power, and also scales with any attack it makes that ends non-lethally for the ammunition it uses.

Overall it looks like being Doomed in EFB's setting. Except worse. There are liches that survived for millennia without Cursebearer strength, after all.

George · May 30, 2020

Here's where my head's at on some build options on how best to go for three different goals, but I'm not sure what goal we should be going for here. Do we have a plan to quickly progress and take short/medium term power options if we want to out-progress his System? How much do we care about Letrizia's injuries, and do we want to characterize Hunger as someone who goes the extra mile for his companions? If we hunt this guy, will we win?

[ ] Press the Attack
[ ] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
[ ] Evening Sky - Opalescence
[ ] Evening Sky - Amaranth Star
[ ] Fury
I think this is our best bet if we Press the Attack. Protection is necessary to deal with his blue energy shenanigans and we need to spend some arete to blunt tiredness and get some extra stats if we want to fight in this condition.

[ ] Recuperate
[ ] Forebear's Blade - What Rains May Come.
[ ] Fury
Heal Letrizia with low risk?

[ ] Recuperate
[ ] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
[ ] Feat - Age and Treachery.
[ ] Fury
Move on from this mess and keep escalating our ability to kill stuff?

evtd said:
[X] Hunt for Healing
[X] Evening Sky - Amaranth Star
[X] Hunger - Scent of Prey
[X] Fury - +1 pick above

replying to you to comment on the build since you voted it first
For all that Rihaku said it's not an extreme risk, it's concerning to me for us to hare off into the woods bleeding and with no working arms to try to hunt something, and to give up two picks for the ability to do so. All to get a healing power that likely won't even be able to restore our lost limbs.
On the other hand, being Cursed to live in interesting times, maybe that's just what standing by our companions looks like.

Still undecided I think, so I'll keep looking at arguments i guess. I'd be interested to hear people's ideas on how we should fight without arms.

Thomasfoolery · May 30, 2020

[X] Press the Attack
[X] Forebear's Blade - What Rains May Come
[X] Fury

I've come around to this, I don't particularly like the ability, but it is perfect for us right now. So just suck it up and use the increased uptime to farm abilities I'll like better sooner. Also showing up shortly after the dudes teleported to safety stronger than ever and being all "Remember me, the guy you swore revenge on?" Is pretty great.

Rihaku · May 30, 2020

Mm, there are two concepts at play there. Firstly, the Apocryphal Curse does not follow any absolute rules. It always can throw yet another thing at you, even in the middle of throwing three things at once at you, with no regards to timing or circumstance. Now, such travails are typically unlikely (though see the caveat above). However, usually the Apocryphal Curse does not attack you with problems you are completely unequipped to handle. Not always, because that wouldn't be interesting, but usually.

A Simple Transaction I

Flying, without moving on

Refutation

Avatar of Mandos

(Discrete Mokona)

One and Many

The Internet

Thinking of Rabbits

Cannon Fodder

One and Many

The Internet

One and Many

The Internet

Avatar of Mandos

One and Many

The Internet