Don't you see the obvious inconveniences of needing fights, shit, needing to lands hits to heal? It's fine just as long as as ride the wave, but we can get into an obvious death spiral. Seal-based healing is much more reliable. We just seal the wounds and are in shape. We likely don't even need to study much since it will be boosted by Hunger when we use it in combat; Experience is Experience. It will be much better long-term and we won't even get Maw until we win our next fight anyway, we might not even need healing by that point.
This isn't really an issue unless we lose a fight so badly someone else has to bail us out of it. Any fight we win is likely to be one in which we land the finishing blow and so one where we heal at the end. If we're losing our fights we've got bigger problems than not being able to heal out of combat, like being dead.

Counterpoint One: We can keep Lord Hunger doing 'interesting things' until he literally drops dead from exhaustion or is murdered by an enemy exploiting his vulnerability. It has become very clear from context that periodically voting for rest is not an optional thing we can avoid doing. if we vote for him to do so, then Lord Hunger will push himself and then not take time to heal or recuperate, until we lose the quest from it.
I'm dubious that we have to take a bunch of options to recover from exhausted instead of a minitimeskip where we can choose to spend one of choices on sleeping for a day. I'm even more dubious that going from exhausted to mostly exhausted is going to make any kind of a difference in a fight.
 
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[X] Research the Spoils
[X] Save 3 Options
[X] [Ruling Ring]

I only really want to keep the Ruling Ring as it not only increases all stats, it boost our reality manipulation to a level where we can fight Apoc Curse in it's own game.

Also, it fricking increases our already monstrous progression by an order of magnitude.
 
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Well, time to vote strategically.

[X] Save 3 Options
[X] [Pillars of Creation]


This isn't really an issue unless we lose a fight so badly someone else has to bail us out of it. Any fight we win is likely to be one in which we land the finishing blow and so one where we heal at the end. If we're losing our fights we've got bigger problems than not being able to heal out of combat, like being dead.
Maw just heals us as much as we damage our enemy; if they hurt us more then them then we still might walk away limping even if we kill them. It provides good sustain for the fight, but only for the fight and not before or after, which is quite the weakness. We'd basicalmly still have no strategic healing option.
 
What did Hunger do when he first awoke? Prioritize carefully.
The second sentence is concerning, given the portents of doom on the horizon. At least the 10% Apocryphal mitigation won, that has guaranteed relevance no matter what rains may come.
[ ] Finally Get in the Robot - Matters of the Decimator's Affliction have been put off for too long. They must be addressed immediately. If Verschlengorge has the same Curse as you, does that mean Gisena and Letrizia are being drained of life force at double the rate? This and other questions should be answered quickly if at all possible. [+Verschlengorge Information, +???]
A strong option, not just because of the information gained but because if trouble strikes we'll be in the robot, with all the benefits that entails! That's the best way to learn to pilot, after all, a situation with real stakes where our gains are dectupled. Exhaustion precludes using our Astral Rank, but Versch retains Rank of its own, however diminished it is. We should've already done this, the implications of our landing site alone mandate investigation. We don't even know if we're being Decimated, but better late than never. The only downsides are that we just effectively locked ourselves out of being able to use him for Decimator mitigation and we procrastinated away all the +Letrizia bonuses.
[ ] Research the Spoils - The pearl, the message, and the scale. Gisena's work is good, but you have your own perspective to add, the insight made possible through long experience and formidable Astral Rank. Though the latter has been somewhat depleted, hampering your efforts on every front, nonetheless it is critical to absorb or acquire whatever strength you can from the fish you spent so dearly to conquer. [+???]
Another mystery box. At this point the King Fish is a Matryoshka doll of the things; opening one just reveals another. The gains have been good so far, but this can wait, none of these items are in danger of spoiling. The message has languished in the thing's belly for Accursed only knows how long. The option itself calls out its inefficiency, since we're hampered without the ability to exert Pressure. Just tuck these inside Versch for the proverbial rainy day when we can afford to poke them.
[ ] Sleep In - Rest is critical. Though it will not relieve your Exhausted condition, you will receive small some leeway in using your Astral Rank for the day. [Exhausted -> Mostly Exhausted]
We picked Crown over Saber, which doesn't do much until we employ our Volumetric Shit Compressor to get it together, so this is a strong option. This or Finally Get in the Robot are front-runners; after our overweening greed, we must see to Hunger's safety until the storm passes. Sleep In may be basic, but basics shouldn't be neglected.
[ ] Brunch - Get the girls together and finish off the rest of that fish. Sure, one could save it smoked in cold storage to be parceled out across the length of this journey, but that would simply leave you spoiled and wanting for more. Best to finish it off with a second exquisite feast and create happy memories with your traveling companions! [+Letrizia, +Gisena]
A nice, wholesome social option that shoots ourselves in the other kneecap. Let's not do this, we've fucked around enough that I'm already worried about what it means for our characterization. Reckless, lacking in forethought, prioritizing gabbing over greatness. If we were in a period of malleable competence akin to the start of TCMM, this would be awful, but with Hunger's intelligence bonuses if we can just thread the needle to Exhaustion expiring our strategic position'll be a lot better.
The Forebear's Blade

[ ] [A Thousand Cuts] - 7 Arete. In the Forebear's grip could even a common knife blaze with fell power. All melee attacks made with the Forebear's Blade now apply cursed wounds. Septuples the power and speed of the Fell-Handed Stroke and allows it to be used with blade projections. Such horrific offensive power allows one to challenge foes vastly stronger.
The Lord Reaper rises again. A very strong option that makes us a better endurance fighter. With one level of Echo of the Forebear propping up our lacking physicals, we can rack up nicks that inflict physical and spiritual damage over time, bleeding our foe as their own attacks are lost in the gloaming majesty of the Evening Sky. Septupling the power of our finisher is also a great perk, fodder for the already-mentioned A7X puns. All in all, a great boon to our offense. Still, it's pretty weak against groups enemies. The Fell-Handed Stroke is draining to us too. We didn't pick Saber so we don't get to defer the cost until the battle's over. If we don't time it carefully or have support, it'll get us killed when the Apocryphal Curse sends in a second wave. Exhaustion sucks, we're in the process of learning that the hard way.
[ ] [Iron Curtain] - 7 Arete. The Forebear could not be dissuaded, nor could he be stopped. To dissent was folly, to resist was death. The laws of the Forebear were as natural law, and just as inevitable. When active, ++Willpower, +++Protection, ++Constitution, Ignore Wounds, Deflect Exotic Attacks. Become Tired afterwards.
The more hints are dropped about him, the more I want to learn about the Forebear. The lore may be deep, but in execution this plays simply: we become the Juggernaut, unbowed and unstoppable. It's a straightforward 'fuck your bullshit' option, applicable against anything the Apocryphal Curse or Human Sphere can throw at us. Hunger's already a determinator, this gives him physical endurance to match the inner. The debuff waiting on the far end of the rampage's unfortunate, though.
[ ] [Once And Future] I - 25 Arete. Channel a fraction of the Forebear's true might, and glimpse a small fraction of his true history. +1 Astral Rank, applied externally after all other factors. Does not raise the difficulty of improving Rank. +2 Astral Rank in matters military.
We want this. Not only because of its absurd power, but because it gives insight into the nature of our enemy. If Rank is the godstat, Rank bonuses applied atop all other modifiers elevate us to the head of the proverbial pantheon. 'Military matters' is laughably broad, too: personal combat, mech piloting, grand strategy, conquest? All applicable. This has direct relevance to our Geas-imposed task and mission of vengeance.

Of the EFB-tier effects, this should be priority one. Ignoring the obvious benefits, the most fascinating part's this: I. Once and Future's part of a series, and the name implies the Forebear yet lives. Is he the 'new master' the Tyrant was bending the world to serve? But if that's so, how did we take up his sword? So many unanswered questions, but this will cross a few off the list.
The Ring of Power

[ ] [Pitiless Maw] - 7 Arete. A Conjunctional Advancement that requires the Forebear's Blade. How can hunger perish from this world? So long as there is one hungering thing, it will emerge again and again to feast upon this realm of mere phenomena. Passively restore health equal to 100% of the damage you deal in melee combat, and triples the Power of Ruin associated with melee strikes.
The existence of Conjunctional Advancements is interesting. If we get Verschlengorge as part of our panoply, could we develop some for him? The thematic Venn diagram overlaps strongly with our ring. Anyway, Pitiless Maw: it's good. Really good. Passive bonus, no cost in stamina to use, helps with battles of attrition against both powerful single units and hordes of smaller enemies. 100% lifesteal patches a hole in our skillset and boosts our offense. We should save for this, it's more of a steal than King of Thieves.
[ ] [Dead But Dreaming] - 25 Arete. That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange aeons... Death merely induces slumber in the wearer until the heavens align for his emergence once more. Gain access to the [Outer Sorcery] skill, by which means one's dreams may twist reality towards one's purposes. Apply the effects of To Shatter Heaven to [Outer Sorcery].
Even when held up against effects of a comparable tier, Dead but Dreaming retains its appeal. More To Shatter Heaven mileage, a cushion of safety to catch us should we fall in battle, and of course the mystery box of [Outer Sorcery]. Warping the world while slumbering makes sleeping an even more productive activity. It could dovetail with our Rank to indirectly mitigate the Apocryphal Curse, help with our conquest task, any number of wonderful things. But I don't think we can prioritize it knowing this little, so... so long, Dead but Dreaming. I wish you good fortune in the build votes to come.
[ ] [Ruling Ring] - 25 Arete. There can only be one Ruling Ring. Enormously increases the strength, range, and control of the [Ring of Power] effect. ++All Stats, ++Progression.
This is powerful, no doubt about it. More reality warping and upgrading our Progression? All good stuff. But the blurb doesn't call to me in the same way other EFB effects do. There's no lore buried here, only raw potential, an improvement in areas where we already excel. We can't afford to throw Arete away into deposits for every shiny, so some are necessarily going to have to be cut. This is one of them. Plus, the phrase 'there can be only one' gives me Highlander flashbacks. Does taking this get us into conflicts with other Ringbearers? With the Apocryphal Curse, one has to assume doom waits around every corner and behind each unopened door.
The Evening Sky

[ ] [Azure Moon] - 7 Arete. That which reigns resplendent once in a blue aeon. The wearer gains access to his true [Soul Evocation], [Imprisoner], and high-grade talent in its use. Powerful as this may be, recall that the use of Soul Evocations requires extensive technical study which will be difficult to perform under the constraints of Hunger. However the potential benefits are enormous enough that it may be worth pursuing even at a mortal's pace.
The have our cake and eat it too option, unlocking the Soul Evocation we passed up in chargen. Imprisonment is powerful, but I don't think we can afford to invest in it. The anti-synergies with Hunger are awful and I fully expect we'd have to spend Arete in pursuit of relevance. As this vote proves, we have more than enough Arete-sinks already. Hard pass.
[ ] Total Eclipse - 25 Arete. The numinous time of sacred transfixion. Night sweeps field and horizon in a thundering advance, halo of the blinkered sun the only residue of day. Twilight's orphaned half-brother, cast aside on the eve of creation and trotted out only for spectacle and occasion. No longer, for the flare of your cloak is this twilight pretender, the liminal glow that precludes day and evening both. Unlocks the [True Quintessence], by which She Who Was The Maiden attained supremacy over the Manifest Realm, and for which the Maiden's successors might one day be anointed.
Accursed only knows how many words I've spent speculating about the Manifest Realm, so this is appealing. The Maiden had a true buffet of bullshit: eye lasers, precognition, every Grace ever bequeathed to a Sorceress was once within her grasp. This unlocks that level of power, but the key word is 'unlocks'. It's yet another mystery box and potential Arete sink, and Gisena upgrades aren't gated behind this. Poring over the text of Total Eclipse reveals little in the way of specifics, only numinous fluff. We should invest in options with more certain payoff.
[ ] [Pillars of Creation] - 25 Arete. At the end of each lunar month, wearer and companions may steal away to the realm of Evening, during which no time passes in the mortal world. Divine opulence and every conceivable luxury await the fortunate interlopers, restoring wholeness of mind, body, and spirit.

The realm of Evening responds to the desires of the wearer and can be shaped to induce a variety of effects at nigh-deific scale - worthy enemies, fields of unique reagents, anagathic peaches, arms and armor of myth - only one rule is absolute: that each stay lasts seven days, no more or less. Items typically cannot be carried out, though the effects of items consumed within the realm remain after departing it.

All Curses save the Geas of Indenture are only at one-third severity within the realm, though this does not stack with other forms of mitigation, nor impede their function externally.
This is a godsend in terms of utility, though it comes at a goddamned high price. Still, Huntress' Moon won so it behooves us to at least try to capitalize on that. We can access Evening once a month and hopefully generate a worthy opponent, earning mitigation for the next and training. Anagathic peaches can treat Decimation damage in our companions. We can strategize with the Tyrant's Doom at one-third potency and not frantically prepare for the next bout of Apocryphal fuckery. Hell, we could even try to shatter the threefold limit on our Accreted panoply and exert dominion over the realm itself, if this option doesn't effectively do that for us. It's really nice, and Hunger deserves nice things, so we should try to save up for it.

1337 words. In conclusion:

[X] Finally Get in the Robot
[X] Save 3 Options
[X] [Once And Future]
[X] [Pitiless Maw]
[X] [Pillars of Creation]


One of Robot or Sleep In has to win, for safety's sake. Saving three options balances greed with long-term thinking and leaves latitude for a two-Arete purchase in the future if necessary. Saving for Pitiless Maw in the short to medium term's better, though, since we lack healing and it doesn't risk overextending again on the stamina front. In the long term, this route gets us one power-type and one utility-type EFB. Evening Sky's a welcome respite from the world, a regular vacation or training arc. Once and Future is only fitting for a Tyrant on a mission of conquest, a marriage of lore and power that I can't wait to see consummated. It promises new opportunities beyond its own considerable benefits.
 
This is a godsend in terms of utility, though it comes at a goddamned high price. Still, Huntress' Moon won so it behooves us to at least try to capitalize on that. We can access Evening once a month and hopefully generate a worthy opponent, earning mitigation for the next and training. Anagathic peaches can treat Decimation damage in our companions. We can strategize with the Tyrant's Doom at one-third potency and not frantically prepare for the next bout of Apocryphal fuckery. Hell, we could even try to shatter the threefold limit on our Accreted panoply and exert dominion over the realm itself, if this option doesn't effectively do that for us. It's really nice, and Hunger deserves nice things, so we should try to save up for it.
The thing I don't like about pillars is that it's effectively the opposite of a potential type EFB. It only gets weaker over time as eventually it stops being able to heal decimation damage and gives less and less reliable huntress procs.

It's really nice utility and quality of life I'm just not sure about paying 25 arete for it. It definitely wouldn't be my first EFB pick and I'm not sure if we'll ever manage to save up for more than one given the steady stream of potent blurbs we'll no doubt be subjected to. Spending arete to keep it always available doesn't seem like the best way to secure or position right now.

Maw just heals us as much as we damage our enemy; if they hurt us more then them then we still might walk away limping even if we kill them. It provides good sustain for the fight, but only for the fight and not before or after, which is quite the weakness. We'd basicalmly still have no strategic healing option.
I'm not sure how relative hp values are calculated but for one on one fights or even two on one where Gisena's backing us up I expect we'll be dealing most or all of the damage. Assuming opponents of equal strength have relatively equal hp to our own we should come out of most fights close to fully healed because Evening Sky resists a portion of all incoming damage. It's especially good in long drawn out fights or fights with a large number of combatants.
 
The thing I don't like about pillars is that it's effectively the opposite of a potential type EFB. It only gets weaker over time as eventually it stops being able to heal decimation damage and gives less and less reliable huntress procs.

It's really nice utility and quality of life I'm just not sure about paying 25 arete for it. It definitely wouldn't be my first EFB pick and I'm not sure if we'll ever manage to save up for more than one given the steady stream of potent blurbs we'll no doubt be subjected to. Spending arete to keep it always available doesn't seem like the best way to secure or position right now.
While Decimation and Huntress procs are large parts of its utility, safe progression, dodging Apocryphal for seven days; getting extra seven days per month for free and all the artifacts and reagents are there too. It's basically the ultimate option in strategic flexibility. Anything we lack it can provide.
I'm not sure how relative hp values are calculated but for one on one fights or even two on one where Gisena's backing us up I expect we'll be dealing most or all of the damage. Assuming opponents of equal strength have relatively equal hp to our own we should come out of most fights close to fully healed because Evening Sky resists a portion of all incoming damage. It's especially good in long drawn out fights or fights with a large number of combatants.
I don't think we need to worry much about opponents of equal strength unless we don't have our companions with us anyway. And it's terrible if we actually need to retreat or find ourselves in an unfavorable situation. We don't actually want to stay fighting our enemies all the time. There's also ambush to consider as well, even with the Cloak.
 
I'm dubious that we have to take a bunch of options to recover from exhausted instead of a minitimeskip where we can choose to spend one of choices on sleeping for a day. I'm even more dubious that going from exhausted to mostly exhausted is going to make any kind of a difference in a fight.
It depends on the fight. There can be a big difference between "has enough stamina to fight for two minutes" and "has enough stamina to fight for twenty seconds," even though both conditions can reasonably be described as 'exhausted.'

That's especially true when you're an amputee running on 1.5 lungs.
 
I don't think we need to worry much about opponents of equal strength unless we don't have our companions with us anyway. And it's terrible if we actually need to retreat or find ourselves in an unfavorable situation. We don't actually want to stay fighting our enemies all the time. There's also ambush to consider as well, even with the Cloak.
But we actually do want be fighting all the time. If we could find a way to stay in combat constantly we'd skyrocket in power. Ambush's are a much bigger problem without Maw than with it. Maw is perfect for unfavourable conditions or ambushes because we only need to connect with one attack to be back in the fight.

It depends on the fight. There can be a big difference between "has enough stamina to fight for two minutes" and "has enough stamina to fight for twenty seconds," even though both conditions can reasonably be described as 'exhausted.'

That's especially true when you're an amputee running on 1.5 lungs.
Exhausted stops us from using our rank prowess by doesn't prevent any of our other abilities from working. Mostly exhausted provides some leway to still use it but that could mean anything from "use it at less effectiveness" to "use it for some limited time per day". In any rate if we're in the robot we can just substitute it's astral rank for ours.
 
Hunger needs to go the fuck to sleep and stop doing things until the debuff's gone, holy shit. Just rest, the thread's gonna work him into another early grave at this rate.

[X] Sleep In
[X] Save 1 Option
[X] [Once And Future]

Rank's hyper-logarithmic, need as much of the stuff as possible. Once and Future's fucking nuts because it's a flat increase. Crown already won, this builds on that, let's get Hunger back to being more than a pasty shadow of himself and into the upper-middle class. Sooner we start saving, sooner we can buy things. At least once the costs are sunk the thread'll have to commit to pursuing something.
 
[X] Sleep In
[X] Save 1 Option
[X] [Once And Future]

At this point in time, EFB already accumalated something like a net 7 BP, or ~15 Arete. Along with like a bajillion discussion reward options. We're at, uh, 12? We should focus on 1 long term option at a time. Interesting note about Simple Transaction and EFB, though:

EFB: Prioritize perfected/beyonded stages, you can't ever go back and fix them once you're done.
Progression: Just zoom through ranks, even if things aren't perfect you'll out-scale everything anyway. (And if you really want to you can go back and fix them.)
 
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EFB: Prioritize perfected/beyonded stages, you can't ever go back and fix them once you're done.
Progression: Just zoom through ranks, even if things aren't perfect you'll out-scale everything anyway. (And if you really want to you can go back and fix them.)

It's probably because the incremental perfected growth is a carry-over trope from Xianxia that manifested within the setting-- and the theme of getting satisfaction from going through stages that everyone else has to go through but perfecting it and having nice cathartic wish-fulfillment scenes as everyone revels in shock about how impossible that was

also:


Cursebearers: haha cardinalities printer go brrr
 
[X] Sleep In
[X] Save 3 Options
[X] [Once And Future]
[X] [Ruling Ring]

Once and Future has the potential to give us info on the Hidden Masters, as well as being insanely OP, so it's basically a must take. Ruling Ring's ++Progression also seems really good, and holistic improvements to all our stats seem super strong, for all that it might not be flashy. Unfortunately, I'm rather torn on whether we should be saving for a third 25, or picking one of the 7 options for a more short term survivability oriented option.
 
Once and Future has the potential to give us info on the Hidden Masters, as well as being insanely OP, so it's basically a must take. Ruling Ring's ++Progression also seems really good, and holistic improvements to all our stats seem super strong, for all that it might not be flashy. Unfortunately, I'm rather torn on whether we should be saving for a third 25, or picking one of the 7 options for a more short term survivability oriented option.
I sincerely doubt that we'll gather 75 arete during the lifespan of this quest. Let alone 75 arete that we save for three EFB's. Even 2 25 point savings are pushing the realms of possibility here.

We've only got limited time until Rihaku loses a fight and has to trigger Dead but Dreaming until the next quest after all!
 
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Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by BrainInAJar on May 30, 2020 at 11:16 AM, finished with 190 posts and 32 votes.
 
[X] Sleep In
[X] Save 1 Option

Oh hey guys, what's going on in this thr-

The bait starts coming and it doesn't stop coming. I see here a new way to greed, where we spend Arete for no immediate benefit when we're already in a less than great position. The particulars of the cool shinies that we're not buying now anyway are very much not the point, so I won't discuss them here. There will always be new upgrades, to a progression cursebearer.

The only thing that piques my interest about this is the hint that these options might increase in cost. Considering that we've only seen 2, 7, and 25 for prices, I have no idea where that would lead.
 
Interesting. Total Eclipse has a good amount of argument power, though no omake power. Once And Future has a considerable amount of omake power despite being behind in votes. This is going to be complex to adjudicate when the vote's over...

The existence of Conjunctional Advancements is interesting. If we get Verschlengorge as part of our panoply, could we develop some for him?

One doesn't see a reason why not... the power of Progression is not bound by such limitations, after all!

Hell, we could even try to shatter the threefold limit on our Accreted panoply and exert dominion over the realm itself

But how separate is that realm from the Evening Sky?

One of Robot or Sleep In has to win, for safety's sake. Saving three options balances greed with long-term thinking and leaves latitude for a two-Arete purchase in the future if necessary. Saving for Pitiless Maw in the short to medium term's better, though, since we lack healing and it doesn't risk overextending again on the stamina front.

Sleep is probably the safer of the two, as you still can't pilot the robot!

But we actually do want be fighting all the time. If we could find a way to stay in combat constantly we'd skyrocket in power.

Only if fighting against relevant opponents...

Exhausted stops us from using our rank prowess by doesn't prevent any of our other abilities from working. Mostly exhausted provides some leway to still use it but that could mean anything from "use it at less effectiveness" to "use it for some limited time per day". In any rate if we're in the robot we can just substitute it's astral rank for ours.

Can you?

Progression: Just zoom through ranks, even if things aren't perfect you'll out-scale everything anyway. (And if you really want to you can go back and fix them.)

Progression sure is nice! A shame it's so expensive. But then, all the best things frequently are, one way or another!

[X] Sleep In
[X] Save 3 Options
[X] [Once And Future]
[X] [Ruling Ring]

Once and Future has the potential to give us info on the Hidden Masters, as well as being insanely OP, so it's basically a must take. Ruling Ring's ++Progression also seems really good, and holistic improvements to all our stats seem super strong, for all that it might not be flashy. Unfortunately, I'm rather torn on whether we should be saving for a third 25, or picking one of the 7 options for a more short term survivability oriented option.

All 25 Arete options are insanely OP in their own ways!
 
[X] Finally Get in the Robot

I'd vote to Sleep In if it had a bigger effect on Exhaustion. As it is, I prefer to gather some information - regular sleep will have to happen after that.

[X] Save 1 Option
[X] [Once And Future]
I

As much as I like Ruling Ring, the bonuses it provides are perhaps a little weak for the cost involved (ludicrous Progression aside, but even so Hunger is no Combat class in need of gaining power in some way). Once and Future is a huge bonus from the start, even more so when it comes to military matters (which is where high Rank really shines).
 
[X] Sleep in
[X] Save 1 Option
[X] [Once And Future]

I've been voting to sleep in and save Arete for all of the past 6 thread-marked updates and I'm not stopping now.

Anyone who wants to get into the robot while half-dead of exhaustion is just tempting fate. DO NOT OPERATE HEAVY MACHINERY WHILE MENTALLY COMPROMISED!!!
 
Maybe if we get a few more +'s, the girls will bring us brunch to bed so we can sleep in and brunch eventually! A man can dream.
 
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