OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
We aren't even taking maw now.
This vote is about how much arete you want to spend for recurring, discounted arete spending opportunities in the future, and which opportunities you want.
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
We aren't even taking maw now.
This vote is about how much arete you want to spend for recurring, discounted arete spending opportunities in the future, and which opportunities you want.
- Location
- Pindorama
The man himself has spoken; there's no need for Maw and Cuts. Again, this vote is for long term options; why vote for things so likely to be offered in the future? This is like the third healing option we'd been offered. Why not get something as cheap but much more effective for long term growth while still having the safety of Cuts? We won't lack for immediate options in the future, that's for certain.
- Location
- USA
[X] Finally Get in the Robot
[X] Save 3 Options
[X] [Ruling Ring]
[X] [Azure Moon]
[X] Total Eclipse
Actually, thinking about it, I think I would rather pursue more of a mage build. I'm sure we are going to have chances to get more physical for lower cost.
Let's get a good second magic system to start the cross system synergy train rolling. All Stats to make ourselves an all around better everything, but the mental stats should definitely help us enter our second career as a mage and then finish it off with the pure mage potential of Azure Moon.
[X] Save 3 Options
[X] [Ruling Ring]
[X] [Azure Moon]
[X] Total Eclipse
Actually, thinking about it, I think I would rather pursue more of a mage build. I'm sure we are going to have chances to get more physical for lower cost.
Let's get a good second magic system to start the cross system synergy train rolling. All Stats to make ourselves an all around better everything, but the mental stats should definitely help us enter our second career as a mage and then finish it off with the pure mage potential of Azure Moon.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Because if we want them, then banking a point of Arete towards them means we're more likely to get them sooner rather than later?
- Location
- Earth
HRMMM
drawing mecha is hard good night
edit: whoops used the wrong format, let me know if it's not fixed!
drawing mecha is hard good night
edit: whoops used the wrong format, let me know if it's not fixed!
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[X] Finally Get in the Robot
[X] Save 1 Option
[X] Total Eclipse
Not particularly invested in the Arete options; more interested in learning what's the deal with Verschlengorge. While the Exhausted condition is concerning, I don't think shifting to 'Mostly Exhausted' will meaningfully improve our chances of survival. The safest way would have just been to not go so deep into the fish vote, especially with such meager rewards as the result, but that vote's passed already. Rather than trying to make up for it, I'd prefer continuing along a direction I actually find interesting in a narrative sense.
Regarding the 25 Arete options, I feel that focusing so much on Pillars of Creation is not a good idea. Like other voters have said, it provides little actual power and is more of an utility option than anything else. Although its benefits in relation to Curses are probably very good in the long-term, we have to first ensure we achieve a high level of strength in the medium-term life of the quest to actually exploit those advantages. Prioritizing nebulous benefits such as Curse mitigation over strength might prove to be less efficient than first acquiring the power necessary to carve a place at the top where we have the freedom to pursue options that do not directly contribute to personal power.
As Nameless did in Even Further Beyond, we should invest in a pure potential-type ability as our first 25 Arete option. I think that the reason Nameless was so successful in EFB was because he took All Paths which granted such a huge amount of leeway and strength that we had much more flexibility in regards to future votes because we had already secured that degree of potential strength. Total Eclipse is a similar potential-type based off what Rihaku has said so we should aim for that first.
I don't think saving for more than 1 option is wise; Hunger is still in a stage where he needs the flexibility to acquire 7 Arete options to guarantee a certain level of power before he can commit to attaining a 25 Arete ability. Spreading the thread's attention over too many 25 Arete effects might prove unwise, particularly when we haven't even explored the local setting and determined what would be the most suitable powers to focus on. Best to concentrate on an effect with high power-potential now and examine other 25 Arete abilities when we are better positioned to do so.
[X] Save 1 Option
[X] Total Eclipse
Not particularly invested in the Arete options; more interested in learning what's the deal with Verschlengorge. While the Exhausted condition is concerning, I don't think shifting to 'Mostly Exhausted' will meaningfully improve our chances of survival. The safest way would have just been to not go so deep into the fish vote, especially with such meager rewards as the result, but that vote's passed already. Rather than trying to make up for it, I'd prefer continuing along a direction I actually find interesting in a narrative sense.
Regarding the 25 Arete options, I feel that focusing so much on Pillars of Creation is not a good idea. Like other voters have said, it provides little actual power and is more of an utility option than anything else. Although its benefits in relation to Curses are probably very good in the long-term, we have to first ensure we achieve a high level of strength in the medium-term life of the quest to actually exploit those advantages. Prioritizing nebulous benefits such as Curse mitigation over strength might prove to be less efficient than first acquiring the power necessary to carve a place at the top where we have the freedom to pursue options that do not directly contribute to personal power.
As Nameless did in Even Further Beyond, we should invest in a pure potential-type ability as our first 25 Arete option. I think that the reason Nameless was so successful in EFB was because he took All Paths which granted such a huge amount of leeway and strength that we had much more flexibility in regards to future votes because we had already secured that degree of potential strength. Total Eclipse is a similar potential-type based off what Rihaku has said so we should aim for that first.
I don't think saving for more than 1 option is wise; Hunger is still in a stage where he needs the flexibility to acquire 7 Arete options to guarantee a certain level of power before he can commit to attaining a 25 Arete ability. Spreading the thread's attention over too many 25 Arete effects might prove unwise, particularly when we haven't even explored the local setting and determined what would be the most suitable powers to focus on. Best to concentrate on an effect with high power-potential now and examine other 25 Arete abilities when we are better positioned to do so.
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Rihaku
The Internet
HRMMM
drawing mecha is hard good night
Looks like a broken link to me!
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Drag it into a new tab and you should be able to see it. It's a neat timelapse of Microwave adding details to the 3rd version of the mecha.
EDIT: Here's a normal hyperlink to the imgur page, if that's okay with you, @Microwave MKII?
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LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
Yes? Obviously we should be making reservations based on what would be good for our build? I think maw and total eclipse are the best 7 and 25 point options so I'd like to make sure they're available for future purchase. I don't want pillars or azure so I don't want to waste 2 arete reserving them.
- Location
- Earth
Thanks! I think I've fixed it in the original post, accidentally posted as image and not as media, but definitely let me know if it's not working on your end still
Rihaku
The Internet
- Location
- Pindorama
Yeah, but like, nothing it offers is very unique, and it's being chosen specifically for short-term survivability when this is basically a vote to see our interest for long-term options? Two choices focusing on the immediate is overkill and reflects the paranoia about Sleep In that has infected the thread. We won't even get to choose between them until we fight something, and even then it's just the one. Why double down on immediate safety like this? Maw is is basically fighting the last war where healing was needed except of actually planning future progression.
Looking at the votes, we'd need clear consolidation behind another option. Not an easy concept, since half the appeal of sports car options like these is in their aesthetics, and their predicted effects on our progression could alienate voters in a way that being a better Dark Souls character won't.
Alright, fine. I'll swing on Pitiless Maw for Azure Moon.
[X] Research the Spoils
[X] Save 3 Options
[X] [A Thousand Cuts]
[X] [Azure Moon]
[X] Total Eclipse
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
I'm not sure why though? They seem pretty good together? Maybe so much offensive power is just overkill?
We're never not going to need a healing effect. We'll need one eventually and one that works when we're fighting synergizes well with hunger.
Can we save 2 options or is that not allowed?
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- Location
- Pindorama
Azure Moon has healing. We could have healed with King's Blood. There were example healing options in the char sheet. The very first Hunger upgrade choice we were given had healing as one of the options. There's nothing to suggest a scarcity of healing abilities, and we get one if we pick Azure Moon. Meanwhile, there was only one offer of an additional magic system before this vote, and it was an EFB. Azure Moon is going for incredibly cheap, and we have no idea when it will be offered again, if ever. That makes a prime candidate to reserve.
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Perhaps they still remember EFB, and are hoping to romance Spring instead?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Fighting the last war?
I disagree. See, I'm pretty sure "get hurt in a fight" is going to happen to us again. Over and over, at higher and higher levels. So addressing the issue of "we get hurt in fights" with "but we heal good in fights" solves a lasting problem.
One of the core problems with our basic progression mechanic here is that to grow, we have to fight, and fights include some risk of being killed. Mitigating the risk of being killed in battle is therefore an important long term strategy, because we're not gonna be doing our leveling up by sitting around on a mountaintop and saying "ommmm" for weeks at a time.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
It's like... what are we going to need on saayyy, the 2nd Arete spending opportunity after this update? What Arete spending options are going to be provided? What strikes a good balance between options that enable us to pivot in a new direction in reaction to circumstances vs options that boost our power because we're in a panic from an incoming fight? We don't know what we're going to need. We have even less of an idea of what our circumstances are by the time we attain 24-25 Arete, or whether or not the 1 Arete discount will turn out to have mattered. Tangentially though, I am leaning towards Pitiless maw right now as opposed to Thousand cuts as an endurance combat panic button in the event of sayyy... a Doom of the Tyrant Proc, or just an Apocryphal proc in general making us into a fugitive. Pitiless Maw also improves our broad spectrum defense penetration from Power of Ruin.
[x]Sleep In
[x]Save 3 Options
[x]Azure Moon
[x]Pitiless Maw
[x]Pillars of Creation
- Location
- Pindorama
Azure Moon does provide healing, and as I said before, it doesn't seem like a rare ability. I was going to say that the maximum long term safety option would be Azure Moon plus Maw, but luckily Conjured Blade changed his vote while I was typing this, so I don't even need to change mine! How convenient. I think it's still somewhat redundant with the capabilities of Sealing, but every option is to a degree; it's a whole new magic system after all.
Point is, there's no need to double down on the short-term by picking Maw and Cuts. If you think healing is more important since we already have a burst option in Fell-strike instead, feel free to vote for Maw. But there's little need for both. Either we kill stuff fast enough for healing to not matter or we pick a healing ability; saving for both is unecessary when we can guarantee a better long term pick.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Also we've got a broad spectrum defense penetrating effect on our attacks with power of ruin. Taking pitiless maw triples the strength of that for whatever it's worth. So it's power+speed+range+esoteric attack with stamina costs depending on what parts you use(The power+speed+range applies exclusively to Fell-Handed Strike, the esoteric attack does not), vs sizable amount of lifesteal and a boost to our armor piercing capabilities.
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
[X] Finally Get in the Robot
[X] Save 1 Option
[X] Total Eclipse
Thinking about it I don't think it's worth banking towards 7 cost options since we're likely able to afford them in the update they're offered if we really need them. This saves us 2 arete and still lets us save towards a 25 cost option. This should let us pick a 7 cost option that gives healing or offensive power next hunger proc.
I still favour get in the robot over sleep in since it only partly averts the exhausted condition and will lead to a less interesting update where we get neither social interaction nor cool curse and mecha lore.
[X] Save 1 Option
[X] Total Eclipse
Thinking about it I don't think it's worth banking towards 7 cost options since we're likely able to afford them in the update they're offered if we really need them. This saves us 2 arete and still lets us save towards a 25 cost option. This should let us pick a 7 cost option that gives healing or offensive power next hunger proc.
I still favour get in the robot over sleep in since it only partly averts the exhausted condition and will lead to a less interesting update where we get neither social interaction nor cool curse and mecha lore.
Azure moon doesn't provide healing in a relevant time frame. We'll have to pay 7 arete to get the magic system then spend precious time studying like a pleb and even then the better healing options will probably cost even more arete because that's just how Rihaku does things. The healing probably also won't be as convienant as "stab enemy feel better".