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Game, Set, [MAFIA]

Do people like pointless polls with their mafia?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 7 24.1%

  • No.

    Votes: 2 6.9%

  • I didn't answer this.

    Votes: 7 24.1%

  • Wynaut?

    Votes: 13 44.8%
  • Total voters
    29
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Totadileplayz said:
That being said. I do believe Interstellar's Watcher Claim, and as such. Shadell is either a Doctor or Scum.
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I've confirmed that I visited ondine as a doctor.

This doesn't confirm IH as town (scum could get to the same solution, particularly as they'd know if there's no actual watcher in play), but does confirm that I'm either the doctor, scum or another role that visited ondine.

Totadileplayz said:
Leaving only Young Pyromancer, Tykan, mesonoxian, Scia, and Swarmingu left.
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I'm lacking your positional information, so a few of these aren't persuasive, but I think this is mostly solid argument from the perspective you've stated (obviously, we don't know how far to trust the cop cover claim on QT.)
 
Shadell said:
I've confirmed that I visited ondine as a doctor.

This doesn't confirm IH as town (scum could get to the same solution, particularly as they'd know if there's no actual watcher in play), but does confirm that I'm either the doctor, scum or another role that visited ondine.



I'm lacking your positional information, so a few of these aren't persuasive, but I think this is mostly solid argument from the perspective you've stated (obviously, we don't know how far to trust the cop cover claim on QT.)
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Scum shouldn't. The best they could do from the roles mafia has is know that a doctor protected ondine. Even if they did use their rolecop role which is the only role listed which could give information helping them on you, they'd still have to do a 75% gamble that you actually did protect ondine. The 25% chance being there's not one doctor and you in fact did do it. That's not a strong play by scum. It's unlikely to be approved by any competent scum team, because if it did fail it would immediately expose interstellar, and even if it didn't. If there are watcher roles that can crop up problems in the future. If there aren't any it doesn't give them a strong position for the future either.

It's effectively too bad a play by a competent Scum Team I'd think.

That being Said. I didn't include IH as a definite town, because it's still possible it would just be a bad play on scum's team to actually do that play. On the other hand. Ondine can't possibly be scum, because It would need all 3 scum actively combating each other and hoping they showed themselves stronger for it, while wasting a night kill. If scum seriously did perform that action, and one of those 3 were revealed to be scum. It might actually not be a half bad play it would be really risky. Though if a single agent was revealed to be scum the others would still have a strong town position. However, this play could only work if all 3 of you were truly scum, and were making the play of the lifetime. If You IH, and Ondine are Scum. I'll give you a round of applause, and frankly you should win this game, just by the ballsy nature of the play itself. However, I doubt that plan truly was thought of and employed in this game. I seriously doubt it.


This I can say with safety. These don't effect any of the kernels of knowledge I'm keeping close to my chest simply because I don't want the scum to find out about them.
 
Well, this is suboptimal. We have likely outed two town power roles to no benefit. (Or, as @Totadileplayz says, you all deserve victory.)

Hopefully we have another protective who can keep our Doctor alive tonight.
 
mesonoxian said:
Well, this is suboptimal. We have likely outed two town power roles to no benefit. (Or, as @Totadileplayz says, you all deserve victory.)

Hopefully we have another protective who can keep our Doctor alive tonight.
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Yeah. It is suboptimal. And from where I'm sitting there was no way to prove Shadell was scum from what IH did anyway. He could have said I tracked someone to ondine. Do they want to out themselves? Then maybe we get a fake claim. Maybe we don't. IH gave Shadell no choice but to say they were the doctor.... But also the perfect chance to clear herself. This just definitely outed the doctor for good this way and didn't force the mafia to necessarily do anything.

If there is a doctor out there who healed me and knows Shadell is lying you should speak up.
For now though I think.

[X] vote Interstellarhobo
 
ondine said:
Yeah. It is suboptimal. And from where I'm sitting there was no way to prove Shadell was scum from what IH did anyway. He could have said I tracked someone to ondine. Do they want to out themselves? Then maybe we get a fake claim. Maybe we don't. IH gave Shadell no choice but to say they were the doctor.... But also the perfect chance to clear herself. This just definitely outed the doctor for good this way and didn't force the mafia to necessarily do anything.

If there is a doctor out there who healed me and knows Shadell is lying you should speak up.
For now though I think.

[X] vote Interstellarhobo
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If Shadell really is a Doctor, that means IH did really track them. Scum don't have a tracker. We really need to try to kill scum today.
 
mesonoxian said:
If Shadell really is a Doctor, that means IH did really track them. Scum don't have a tracker. We really need to try to kill scum today.
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There exists a rolecop.

And IH did the very odd thing of asking if I had GM confirmation? Huh why? Seems pretty obvious I would unless I was totally lying.
 
ondine said:
There exists a rolecop.

And IH did the very odd thing of asking if I had GM confirmation? Huh why? Seems pretty obvious I would unless I was totally lying.
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If Shadell were rolecopped why bother outing them to the thread? Scum could quietly nightkill Shadell tonight. This way, there is a significant chance Shadell will be under protection tonight, giving Scum a choice between letting the Doc live or risking wasting another night.

There are four possibilities.

1. Shadell and IH are both town. This seems plausible to me. In that case IH accidentally outed the Doc, which was an error, but killing him compounds the problem.

2. Shadell is scum, IH is town. This one is also plausible. In this case, IH did town a favor, and Shadell had no choice but to claim Doc. We still shouldn't kill IH.

3. IH is scum, Shadell is town. For reasons I explained above, this one is implausible. It puts scum at a disadvantage for no real reason. Killing IH would make sense here, but this is probably not accurate.

4. Both are scum and this is an elaborate ruse. This seems unlikely but not impossible. It would mean killing either Shadell or IH would be beneficial.

At this point I am inclined to think they are both town, but of the two I actually think Shadell is more likely to be scum.
 
One more quick thought before I get ready for work.

I expect the scum will have their lawyer on Shadell tonight unless they are going to attempt a nightkill. So Cop results from them tonight are probably compromised.
 
I really wish we hadn't voted out LDJ. A watcher would be ideal in this situation.
 
Shadell has come out as the doctor who healed me and no one has Counter claimed. She is town.
 
mesonoxian said:
One more quick thought before I get ready for work.

I expect the scum will have their lawyer on Shadell tonight unless they are going to attempt a nightkill. So Cop results from them tonight are probably compromised.
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Huh. Those are linked? News to me.

[X] vote mesonoxian

If it looks like a scum slip and sounds like a scum slip...
 
ondine said:
Shadell has come out as the doctor who healed me and no one has Counter claimed. She is town.
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Yeah she is most likely town. With only one theoretical plan that could reasonably keep her as a wolf.
That Being Said, just because she's town doesn't mean that interstellarhobo isn't. What Mesonoxian said there is still true.

ondine said:
Huh. Those are linked? News to me.

[X] vote mesonoxian

If it looks like a scum slip and sounds like a scum slip...
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I don't want to play devil's advocate here, but there's actually a perfectly rational reason for those two to be linked. If they are planning on killing shadell it doesn't matter what any seers scry her as she's going to die. If however they're not going to try to kill her, then a lawyer role would be the best role to help set some distrust in the ranks as it were. Doing both on one target is wasteful.
 
Totadileplayz said:
Yeah she is most likely town. With only one theoretical plan that could reasonably keep her as a wolf.
That Being Said, just because she's town doesn't mean that interstellarhobo isn't. What Mesonoxian said there is still true.


I don't want to play devil's advocate here, but there's actually a perfectly rational reason for those two to be linked. If they are planning on killing shadell it doesn't matter what any seers scry her as she's going to die. If however they're not going to try to kill her, then a lawyer role would be the best role to help set some distrust in the ranks as it were. Doing both on one target is wasteful.
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I wish you'd let meso respond to what I said and give this answer. Now he will just say this and we get nothing from him.

It's a fair point, I just would have liked to hear from.him why he said it.
 
Totadileplayz said:
I'm sorry, I'll not try to do that in the future.
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No man it's a good point. Just sometimes you can catch people out with things like that. Lots of figuring out who is mafia is how people respond to things and how much info they have and how they let that info ... Inform their decisions.
 
Sorry for being absent so long. I partly followed the thread and will go to reread in detail what I missed since I left. But first two things:

[X] Null

With Zaelix taking over, I'm not totally comformtable with my vote for now. He isn't cleared but I'll look for other suspects first, at least today.

2. In a normal game, the whole chain of events with ondine/shadell/Hobo would clear at least one person.
This isn't a normal game, so please don't be too hasty to clear people. All of them could still be scum.

2.1 Ondine claims to got attacked and healed. Could be true but there are several possibilities for her to lie.
a) She was informed that she was doc'd. Might be the doc's drawback. This could mean Shadell's telling the truth. Or she's scum as well, jumping on a clever built excuse.
b) She wasn't doc'd but claims to be. Only works with Shadell being scum as well. Hobo claimng to have seen Shadell visiting Ondine could be Shadell being the scum lawyer.

2.2 Given Ondine's town and is telling the truth. So we're going with scum Shadell
a) She was seen by Hobo to have visited Ondine. So she was the attacker and since it already is in the thread that ondine was doc'd, she claims doc.
But wouldn't be there a counterclaim? Well, there are possibly 2 docs in the game. There is always the possibility of two players choosing the same target. Ondine wasn't getting much suspicion yesterday, so she is a viable scum target.

2.3 Only Hobo is lying and is scum
Meso already mentioned that. It's truly possible. I can't really say if forcing Shadell to claim was a good move or a bad one yet. It rather seems towny to me since scum could have gone for the NK.

Before anyone asks where the NK went under 2.1:
Scum could have gone for dousing someone. I guess this could be silent. @QTesseract, since you have the most experience, how does arsonists commonly work here?
For the why: We don't know scum's drawbacks. They might only be able to kill every even night.

I don't say any of this is the truth and player X is scum. All I ask of you is to not clear someone prematurely.
 
ondine said:
Huh. Those are linked? News to me.

[X] vote mesonoxian

If it looks like a scum slip and sounds like a scum slip...
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What sense would it make to nightkill and Lawyer someone? If you nightkill them, they'll flip and so whatever the Cop did or didn't learn is irrelevant.

It might make sense if you expect to fail the nightkill, but at that point you should probably be targeting somebody else.

My concern was that Shadell doesn't get nightkilled, gets Lawyered, gets scumread by the Cop, and gets daykilled tomorrow, letting scum kill someone else tonight, let us take out our own Doc tomorrow, and then take out our revealed Cop tomorrow night. That strikes me as a scenario worth avoiding.
 
ondine said:
I wish you'd let meso respond to what I said and give this answer. Now he will just say this and we get nothing from him.

It's a fair point, I just would have liked to hear from.him why he said it.
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For what it is worth I answered you before I scrolled down.
 
Scia said:
Do other games normally tell the victim that they where attacked and survived thanks to a doctor? Considering it could also have meant that someone tried to douse you.
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I think I remember a game where the doc was informed if he successfully protected someone but not the victim? I'm not sure. But I'd say that it completely depends on the GM.
And I think you can't be protected against dousing by a doc.
 
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