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A Simple Transaction I

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[X] Nightmare Praetor
I really want repose so I guess I'll just have to live with more social and being a bit evil. At least there's the upside of getting along with Gisena better!
 
runeblue360 said:
I don't think anyone's paid much attention to this section of the Repose. Considering the theme of the option (sloth and an elder dragon), do we really want to choose this option? Why become an old man in literally our first year under the Geas when we've still got a few octillion to go? We're in our youth as a Cursebearer; we should enjoy it for a while.
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That's a tall claim, so I'll just confirm with Rihaku to be sure.

@Rihaku, will Repose turn us into an old man?

Bear in mind that I really doubt that, especially since the description says that it's like that the diminishment of aging is reversed into growth.
 
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runeblue360 said:
I don't think anyone's paid much attention to this section of the Repose. Considering the theme of the option (sloth and an elder dragon), do we really want to choose this option? Why become an old man in literally our first year under the Geas when we've still got a few octillion to go? We're in our youth as a Cursebearer; we should enjoy it for a while.
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I think you are a tragic backstory too late on the whole "enjoying our youth" thing. We are guided by vengeance and have decided to use the Tyrant's methods if necessary; innocence has long left the station.
runeblue360 said:
To say nothing of what actually making use of our constant sleeping will do to our legend under Accretion. Moreover, resting is nice but it opens significant avenues of attack for the Apocryphal Curse. Its going to be hard enough to deal with as is without letting them catch us literally sleeping on the job.
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What the hell, we literally sleep a single extra hour, and can benefit from time dilation on top of that as well. We aren't Arthur here, "Wow, this guy sleeps an extra hour" is not legend worthy. We don't even get penalized for not sleeping.
 
Remember the Extrusion? Remember the Veil of Maya we got last time we overly modeled ourselves on Yong Liefang? Do people really want to find out what political effects we're going to get with Decimator's Affliction and 2/3 Yong Liefang's Ruthlessness? We have Accretion and that means our powers are subject to our actions for better or worse.

Emanation of the Final Scion - The Veil of Maya

This emanation can be modulated to range from a city-sized radius to one encompassing an entire galaxy. All characters within its range receive an increase to their worldly and intellectual pleasures and to the intensity of all emotions experienced. The Nameless one fled Earth and the grey banality of its office corridors. Never again will he return. The only source of sensation not subject to the Veil of Maya is that cultivated by enlightenment itself, but who has time to cast away the world when it is ever so alluring?

The increase can be adjusted, from 50% to 2000%. It cannot be turned off, worsening Spoiled by an amount proportional to the amount of increase, and as a 'positive' effect bypasses many mental defenses. All within the radius including the Cultivator are affected to some extent. Higher levels may cause society to descend into an anarchy of indulgence and vice. Elven societies are resistant.

Nameless receives a 90% cut of all Cultivation progress that would have been made, but was prevented due to the Veil's presence. The more distracted the world's Cultivators are, the more thoroughly chained by desire, the greater his power swells.

*Most populations don't contribute a noticeable Cultivation increase, but affecting someone like Suizhen, the Heroine, or Zang Kong could lead to significant gains.
*The effect falls off with distance and is strongest near the source, causing his presence to be associated with the inflaming of all pleasures. Alas, if only he could turn it off. (?)
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Conjured Blade said:
Remember the Extrusion? Remember the Veil of Maya we got last time we overly modeled ourselves on Yong Liefang? Do people really want to find out what political effects we're going to get with Decimator's Affliction and 2/3 Yong Liefang's Ruthlessness? We have Accretion and that means our powers are subject to our actions for better or worse.
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That was because of our Spoiled Heroic Passion. Veil of Maya had nothing to do with ruthlessness and everything to do with Nameless's hedonism.

Besides, Veil of Maya was fundamentally Nameless's power. Our Curse of Decimation, on the other hand, isn't. I doubt Accretion could affect it to that extent.
 
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I remember when the red option was about being daring, ambitious and unwilling to bend instead of about becoming a troglodyte.

The most important part of this quest; arguably of any quest, is the decisions we make. Having better decisions improves us in basically every front. It is never not relevant. The Hero has already accepted that he is going to become more tyrannical, let us not hesitate ourselves.
Conjured Blade said:
Remember the Extrusion? Remember the Veil of Maya we got last time we overly modeled ourselves on Yong Liefang? Do people really want to find out what political effects we're going to get with Decimator's Affliction and 2/3 Yong Liefang's Ruthlessness? We have Accretion and that means our powers are subject to our actions for better or worse.
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Yong Liefang wasn't spoiled, that was just Nameless. You can hardly blame our idolization of Yong Liefang for the Veil.
 
[X] Auspicious Vanguard

I've got to say, love the synergy bonus from this one, given how Hunger incentivizes us to be diving headfirst into dangerous situations to increase our power.
 
ReaderOfFate said:
That was because of our Spoiled Heroic Passion. Veil of Maya had nothing to do with ruthlessness and everything to do with Nameless's hedonism.

Besides, Veil of Maya was fundamentally Nameless's power. Our Curse of Decimation, on the other hand, isn't. I doubt Accretion could affect it to that extent.
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BrainInAJar said:
I remember when the red option was about being daring, ambitious and unwilling to bend instead of about becoming a troglodyte.

The most important part of this quest; arguably of any quest, is the decisions we make. Having better decisions improves us in basically every front. It is never not relevant. The Hero has already accepted that he is going to become more tyrannical, let us not hesitate ourselves.

Yong Liefang wasn't spoiled, that was just Nameless. You can hardly blame our idolization of Yong Liefang for the Veil.
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It's about the mythic archetype we fit into. A Simple Transaction I Original, The story we tell ourself and the story people tell about us is also a factor. A Simple Transaction I Original

Do we want to be the Enlightened Despot leading the people into a brighter tomorrow or something worse? What kind of rationalization we give ourselves when our people are suffering under Decimator's affliction matters. The people who remember life before we took over and how their life sucks now matter.

"Hey, I need to be in range to devour their lifeforce for a 3 day brawl or the aliens are going to kill all of them, can't make an Omlet without breaking a few eggs".

"I need to get stronger, and if a few more of the faceless masses die, I'm just playing with the cards fate dealt me"

If we've got a rationalization like that, odds are we're going to get something that makes us better at breaking those eggs.
 
[X] Force Unto

As much as I like Unshattered, some arguments have swaided me. We don't really need much in the term of raw power currently.

Personally, I just don't want to take any amount of thick as thieves. Yes, we have chosen the path of the tyrant, but I don't think that going further into becoming one is a good thing.

As unlikely as it is, if Unshattered grabs steam, I'm totally changing sides!
 
Conjured Blade said:
Do we want to be the Enlightened Despot leading the people into a brighter tomorrow or something worse? What kind of rationalization we give ourselves when our people are suffering under Decimator's affliction matters. The people who remember life before we took over and how their life sucks now matter.

"Hey, I need to be in range to devour their lifeforce for a 3 day brawl or the aliens are going to kill all of them, can't make an Omlet without breaking a few eggs".

"I need to get stronger, and if a few more of the faceless masses die, I'm just playing with the cards fate dealt me"

If we've got a rationalization like that, odds are we're going to get something that makes us better at breaking those eggs.
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Being ruthless and being cruel are different things, as any political philosopher would tell you. If the populace is discontent enough to actually negatively affect our abilities, we likely have far worse problems. Not that Vanguard is any guarantee against that when the Hero has already made peace with tyranny.
 
Honestly I do want to take utility options. I just don't quite favor the options we have here, so I'm delaying to future options for it. I figure this is fine since we also need considerable martial power.
 
BrainInAJar said:
Being ruthless and being cruel are different things, as any political philosopher would tell you. If the populace is discontent enough to actually negatively affect our abilities, we likely have far worse problems. Not that Vanguard is any guarantee against that when the Hero has already made peace with tyranny.
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I think we're getting into semantics here. I'm not sure what your boundary between ruthlessness and cruelty is but all my hypothetical rationalizations seem firmly on the side of Ruthlessness, using the excellency of She Who Lives in her Name as the reference point for Ruthlessness. Yong Liefang sought the Empire's downfall with an army of mind controlled slaves.

She Who Lives In Her Name: The Principle of Hierarchy is methodical and meticulous. She analyzes every variable and chooses the most efficient and orderly method by which to achieve victory. Her utilitarianism is absolute and consistent as clockwork. She is as brilliant as she is alien, cold and unfeeling. Her violence is dispassionate and perversely pure, unmotivated by sadism and yet capable of systematically disassembling every obstacle in her path without the slightest remorse. She builds and improves structures of all kinds and abhors chaos, randomness and free will in all its forms. She finds excessive effort wasteful and prefers to apply the minimum exertion necessary to attain the desired outcome. Her directives are fascist and totalitarian, but ruthlessly fair. She has no moral restraint against deception, nor any attachment to honesty, but her nature must choose the most expedient method even when it is not the solution that best matches her talents. She demands perfection, especially from herself.
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66% chance of sucky rationalizations farking with our Accretion powers goes beyond my risk tolerance. 33% does not.
 
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Conjured Blade said:
I think we're getting into semantics here. I'm not sure what your boundary between ruthlessness and cruelty is but all my hypothetical rationalizations seem firmly on the side of Ruthlessness, using the excellency of She Who Lives in her Name as the reference point for Ruthlessness. Yong Liefang sought the Empire's downfall with an army of mind controlled slaves.
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But even Liefang thought that saving the Empire with an army of mind controlled slaves was shitty; he just didn't see any other option. Again, if we are in a similar situation, we have far bigger problems.
History is filled with people who are lionized as ruthless, but not cruel. Pick any statesman at random and I give 50% odds. Ruthlessness is about doing what is necessary for the conclusion of your objective; if an action would damage it more than help, it is a failed application of ruthlessness. Many ruthless individuals saw the value of a happy populace; indeed, they often used that as a weapon against their enemies.

If you are saying that the perception of the people might weaken us, don't worry; a ruthless person would endeavor to solve that problem, exactly because it might weaken them.
 
[X] Auspicious Vanguard

Still think the Null Resistance is the best of all the options, but I'm guessing the choice will come with some problems with Gisena. No weaknesses and keep our options open for something truly OP, what more is there to like?
 
BrainInAJar said:
But even Liefang thought that saving the Empire with an army of mind controlled slaves was shitty; he just didn't see any other option. Again, if we are in a similar situation, we have far bigger problems.
History is filled with people who are lionized as ruthless, but not cruel. Pick any statesman at random and I give 50% odds. Ruthlessness is about doing what is necessary for the conclusion of your objective; if an action would damage it more than help, it is a failed application of ruthlessness. Many ruthless individuals saw the value of a happy populace; indeed, they often used that as a weapon against their enemies.

If you are saying that the perception of the people might weaken us, don't worry; a ruthless person would endeavor to solve that problem, exactly because it might weaken them.
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The rest of what you're saying seems compatible with She Who Lives in Her Name's excellency so we seem to be overlapping there. The stuff about a similar situation and bigger problems though, Liefang thinking it was shitty... I was actually going for a Liefang-esque rationalization with "I need to get stronger, and if a few more of the faceless masses die, I'm just playing with the cards fate dealt me". Maybe I'd add "to save the 97% after "to get stronger" for more clarity or something. As for the bigger problems, I'm thinking accumulated collateral damage after the third or forth Apocrypha Proc once we're controlling territory. Us having those kinds of problems is going to be exceedingly probable.
 
Conjured Blade said:
The rest of what you're saying seems compatible with She Who Lives in Her Name's excellency so we seem to be overlapping there. The stuff about a similar situation and bigger problems though, Liefang thinking it was shitty... I was actually going for a Liefang-esque rationalization with "I need to get stronger, and if a few more of the faceless masses die, I'm just playing with the cards fate dealt me". Maybe I'd add "to save the 97% after "to get stronger" for more clarity or something. As for the bigger problems, I'm thinking accumulated collateral damage after the third or forth Apocrypha Proc once we're controlling territory. Us having those kinds of problems is going to be exceedingly probable.
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The point is, desperate situations often require desperate solutions, and if are in a desperate situation we likely can't afford to think about PR. In a non-desperate situation, considering that PR does have tangible benefits even without our powers, a ruthless person would account for it.

Considering our resolution to get Vengeance; we likely will make PR sacrifices in the future, it's just that we will do so expecting more benefit than the loss. If you wanted someone who is only willing to pick the "good" option, that ship has sailed.
 
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