fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I hear you. I like the idea of Praxis, but it really doesn't feel like a good fit for this hero.
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
Maragas
Nothing to see here.
- Location
- Tree House
Don't worry, the glorious thing about Rihaku with build votes is the combos we vote on in the second half of the voting. I am pretty sure there will be Non Praxis Freedom combo in them.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
I disagree with selecting more than 2 Curses if we pick Freedom. Is not the Eons for the Hero to enjoy? Selecting additional Curses for power just seems self-defeating, with the sheer power of the Combat Cursebearer combined with the fact that we have no immediate problems facing us.
Yeah, the current mess of votes could certainly benefit from Consolidation. That's an additional effort tax for the GM, though, streamlining and paring down the interests of the thread into a handful of viable builds and characters. Saving us from ourselves, to put it less charitably!
When you said this one would have a more experienced protagonist, you weren't kidding.
Progression-type appeals more than combat-type, though that's a close-run thing – but the Hero has done enough for this world, and it has done enough to him in return. I'd rather move on than linger in the epilogue of a story that's done. And vengeance has a way of eclipsing more worthy pursuits. The hero once had a dream for which he fought, and pursue only Vengeance would be to lose at his true goal, even should win against his foes.
Also, having a way to travel between worlds of our own initiative has potential.
Vengeance / Tyrant / Decimator would make a pretty cool Enemy of the World, which is an archetype I have some fondness for. But this is a hero, and moreover, an idealist who kept to his ideals even when his heroic task was done, so it would be rather the wrong tools for the work at hand.
Better choices, here and now, might be:
Doom of the Tyrant
I'd not wish the hero to become a tyrant. He's better than that. But if we are to choose freedom, is there any curse more appropriate than this?
Plenary Brand
Do not mistake a desire for freedom for an aversion to conflict. Plenary is no small risk, but a Combat-type is more prepared to bear it than most.
As for remittances...
Regalia - the hint at the Diagram tempts me. But I'd take one broad ability over an array of narrow ones.
King's Scepter - the description is too vague to judge.
Three Wishes - this may be my preferred choice. If we take power, we can make a more informed choice as to its nature. And it is simple, clear, but still affords a greater breadth of choice than any other option.
The Sword That Ends The World - you know how I said Three Wishes may be my preferred choice? Wrote that before I got to this one. We've been waiting a long, long time to find out what the Praxis is like, but that wouldn't be enough to sway me. I vote for this because it cuts closest to the core of the quest so far — the Accursed, and the traits he seems to share with our protagonist. Endurance in the face of all the world's cruelty, and an ideal of fairness imposed upon the world by both persistence and raw power.
Though I wrote much of this before Orm Embar posted An Immodest Proposal, the two plans are similar enough and Orm's case for a third curse compelling enough enough that I'll stand behind it:
[X] An Immodest Proposal
Progression-type appeals more than combat-type, though that's a close-run thing – but the Hero has done enough for this world, and it has done enough to him in return. I'd rather move on than linger in the epilogue of a story that's done. And vengeance has a way of eclipsing more worthy pursuits. The hero once had a dream for which he fought, and pursue only Vengeance would be to lose at his true goal, even should win against his foes.
Also, having a way to travel between worlds of our own initiative has potential.
Vengeance / Tyrant / Decimator would make a pretty cool Enemy of the World, which is an archetype I have some fondness for. But this is a hero, and moreover, an idealist who kept to his ideals even when his heroic task was done, so it would be rather the wrong tools for the work at hand.
Better choices, here and now, might be:
Doom of the Tyrant
I'd not wish the hero to become a tyrant. He's better than that. But if we are to choose freedom, is there any curse more appropriate than this?
Plenary Brand
Do not mistake a desire for freedom for an aversion to conflict. Plenary is no small risk, but a Combat-type is more prepared to bear it than most.
As for remittances...
Regalia - the hint at the Diagram tempts me. But I'd take one broad ability over an array of narrow ones.
King's Scepter - the description is too vague to judge.
Three Wishes - this may be my preferred choice. If we take power, we can make a more informed choice as to its nature. And it is simple, clear, but still affords a greater breadth of choice than any other option.
The Sword That Ends The World - you know how I said Three Wishes may be my preferred choice? Wrote that before I got to this one. We've been waiting a long, long time to find out what the Praxis is like, but that wouldn't be enough to sway me. I vote for this because it cuts closest to the core of the quest so far — the Accursed, and the traits he seems to share with our protagonist. Endurance in the face of all the world's cruelty, and an ideal of fairness imposed upon the world by both persistence and raw power.
Though I wrote much of this before Orm Embar posted An Immodest Proposal, the two plans are similar enough and Orm's case for a third curse compelling enough enough that I'll stand behind it:
[X] An Immodest Proposal
- Location
- Pindorama
Affliction of Slumber and Praxis seem very anti-synergistic. Halving the amount of effort we can dedicate to an art that can only advance with effort seems misguided. Remember how we moaned about Arthur's burnout status and how annoying this made training with him?
As for that last point, that only makes Vengeance as rightful as freedom, if don't think the final goal of vengeance would be in any way beneficial yo the multiverse.
I get helping the Accursed, but I don't think the Anti-synergy of Praxis+Slumber to be worth the extra Remittances; Slumber is just way too hard to get rid of.
We can decide otherwise right now, and yet people don't seem enthusiastic. And of course we had inherent stakes, we were summoned to kill the Tyrant and thanks yo that we couldn't countenance our survival. Even that will be lacking. Usually, I find that having a goal can give wonderful direction to the usual floundering of quest votes.
As for that last point, that only makes Vengeance as rightful as freedom, if don't think the final goal of vengeance would be in any way beneficial yo the multiverse.
I get helping the Accursed, but I don't think the Anti-synergy of Praxis+Slumber to be worth the extra Remittances; Slumber is just way too hard to get rid of.
I'm not a fan of Affliction of Slumber. It's the most severe personal constraint of all the Curses, sacrificing more than half of our life. I wasn't pleased with Arthur becoming the Slumber.
Maragas
Nothing to see here.
- Location
- Tree House
I also thought like that but then, well most people already give half of their existence to sleep. Sleeping 16 hours every 24 hours is basically sleeping 8 hours every 12 hours. Which is the recommended amount for a human.
It's true that people can do it with less but humans still give 1/3 of their existence to sleep even with the best case.
So the curse is...well not that bad. Especially if you have the power to make sure you are safe. We can even lower it to 14 hours easily, which means 7 hours of sleep every 12 hours if we do the previous math.
Not particularly no, that would be indicative of some sort of medical condition.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Currently going for
[x]An Immodest Proposal
While I'm voting, I may as well trial balloon other Freedom/Praxis Plans, tally is too much of a clusterfark for me to bother keeping track of at the moment:
[]Doom of Lunacy/Plenary Brand(We get to be the Wizard Hulk, with the ability to make "You won't like me when I'm angry" into a credible threat. We may get the occasional lucid freebie even if we do not go Yandere for somebody)
[]Apocryphal Curse(Just that. Hard Mode Proportional to a Combat Cursebearer and somewhat beyond, with the full extent of human capabilities without any limits)
Or combine the two for 6 lesser remittances, make our Hulk into a heaven shattering monstrosity.
[x]An Immodest Proposal
While I'm voting, I may as well trial balloon other Freedom/Praxis Plans, tally is too much of a clusterfark for me to bother keeping track of at the moment:
[]Doom of Lunacy/Plenary Brand(We get to be the Wizard Hulk, with the ability to make "You won't like me when I'm angry" into a credible threat. We may get the occasional lucid freebie even if we do not go Yandere for somebody)
[]Apocryphal Curse(Just that. Hard Mode Proportional to a Combat Cursebearer and somewhat beyond, with the full extent of human capabilities without any limits)
Or combine the two for 6 lesser remittances, make our Hulk into a heaven shattering monstrosity.
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Maragas
Nothing to see here.
- Location
- Tree House
Do you mean the "every 12 hours" part? If so yes, it's not an exact match otherwise National Sleep Foundation gives 7-9 Hours of sleep to Adults. Which would make it between 7 hours of sleep for 17 hours of activity and 9 hours of sleep for 15 hours of activity.
Rihaku
The Internet
Do note that taking the Plenary Brand without Progression will eventually force you into some form of progression in order to keep up with its scaling! That's not very comfy.
Freedom will depart from this world just as Vengeance does, since Freedom lacks the power to oppose the hidden masters. Best leave as soon as you can, especially if the Accursed's not around.
I think they're selecting it more to relieve the burden of the Accursed. How selfless!
I'm really not sure how I'm going to consolidate this!
Do I ever kid?
Slumber's most restrictive aspect is that it stops you from benefiting from time dilation. Its second most restrictive aspect is how badly it weakens you if you lose sleep, creating a vulnerability that intelligent enemies can target. Of course, the latter matters less if you're a Combat type that outscales most opposition, but your enemies really only have to succeed once... unless you have the Regalia or Three Wishes.
In conclusion: Consider the Remittances that come with inbuilt plot armor!
Freedom will depart from this world just as Vengeance does, since Freedom lacks the power to oppose the hidden masters. Best leave as soon as you can, especially if the Accursed's not around.
I think they're selecting it more to relieve the burden of the Accursed. How selfless!
I'm really not sure how I'm going to consolidate this!
Do I ever kid?
Slumber's most restrictive aspect is that it stops you from benefiting from time dilation. Its second most restrictive aspect is how badly it weakens you if you lose sleep, creating a vulnerability that intelligent enemies can target. Of course, the latter matters less if you're a Combat type that outscales most opposition, but your enemies really only have to succeed once... unless you have the Regalia or Three Wishes.
In conclusion: Consider the Remittances that come with inbuilt plot armor!
Maragas
Nothing to see here.
- Location
- Tree House
Ah, a bummer. Oh well, maybe we can use that True Wish in the future proactively to get rid of them if we choose it and the freedom.
- Location
- Pindorama
Y'know what, Orm Embar is right when he said the action with the most positive utility is taking as many Curses as possible to help the Accursed. People don't seem too enthused about Vengeance and want our character to be more traditionally heroic. After Luseng, I don't want comfy-nation building ever again.
So, you all want to be a heroic, huh? Try this for size:
[]Plan Carrying the Cross
-[] Freedom
-[] Doom of the Tyrant
-[] Plenary Brand
-[]The Apocryphal Curse
-[]The Sword That Ends The World
Yes, we are taking four Curses. It's what a self-sacrificing person would do. Taking Slumber is bad for keeping up with Apocryphal Curse, and Decimator doesn't jive with self-sacrifice. We can use the 6 Lesser Remittances this affords us by getting stuff to help us progress faster.
Again, taking as many Curses of the Accursed as we can sustainably afford is the best thing we can do from a moral perspective. I still prefer Vengeance overall, but I think this is better and more interesting than Immodest proposal.
@Orm Embar if I can't convince you to adopt this, can you at least not support Slumber. It is directly in the way of exploring the Praxis, which seems to be the objective of your plan. I think just dropping the Curse would gey us more value than the additiona Lesser Remittances
So, you all want to be a heroic, huh? Try this for size:
[]Plan Carrying the Cross
-[] Freedom
-[] Doom of the Tyrant
-[] Plenary Brand
-[]The Apocryphal Curse
-[]The Sword That Ends The World
Yes, we are taking four Curses. It's what a self-sacrificing person would do. Taking Slumber is bad for keeping up with Apocryphal Curse, and Decimator doesn't jive with self-sacrifice. We can use the 6 Lesser Remittances this affords us by getting stuff to help us progress faster.
Again, taking as many Curses of the Accursed as we can sustainably afford is the best thing we can do from a moral perspective. I still prefer Vengeance overall, but I think this is better and more interesting than Immodest proposal.
@Orm Embar if I can't convince you to adopt this, can you at least not support Slumber. It is directly in the way of exploring the Praxis, which seems to be the objective of your plan. I think just dropping the Curse would gey us more value than the additiona Lesser Remittances
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
We are going to do some sort of progression in any case. This is a thread full of power gamers. I expect our hero will do plenty of training and power gaining well enjoying being with his wife. Really if the only problem we have to worry about is curse mitigation it will be a huge step up from our usual constant time pressure. Besides I feel like if we actually do get a nice vacation mitigating the curse is a good way to pay back the Accursed.
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
[X] Vengeance
[X] The Geas of Indenture
[X] The Decimator's Affliction
[X] Doom of the Tyrant
[X] The Apocryphal Curse
[X] Three Wishes
Vengeance because after that backstory there's no way I want the character to just ignore the problem and go off to live a happy life where he pretends everythings fine and some nebulous assholes didn't screw over his entire life.
Three wishes seems like it offers a good combo between power and versatility which seems better than the sword for surviving in the short term plus they come back if we put the effort in. Maybe even a lesser or true wish could grant us knowledge of the praxis?
[X] The Geas of Indenture
[X] The Decimator's Affliction
[X] Doom of the Tyrant
[X] The Apocryphal Curse
[X] Three Wishes
Vengeance because after that backstory there's no way I want the character to just ignore the problem and go off to live a happy life where he pretends everythings fine and some nebulous assholes didn't screw over his entire life.
Three wishes seems like it offers a good combo between power and versatility which seems better than the sword for surviving in the short term plus they come back if we put the effort in. Maybe even a lesser or true wish could grant us knowledge of the praxis?
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Since we're not playing as Odyssial, the limiting factor of the Praxis is our ability to work hard and sacrifice, not the time we have available to us. Regardless of what happens, I'm doubtful we'd spend the full 8 or 16 hours of our wakefulness training, not if we've chosen Freedom. Given that fact, the Affliction of Slumber isn't a particularly significant burden to our playstyle.
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] An Immodest Proposal
-[X] Freedom
-[X] Affliction of Slumber
-[X] Doom of the Tyrant
-[X] Plenary Brand
-[X] The Sword That Ends the World
I think Orm has the right of it here! With a potential-based Primary Remittance, the Lesser Remittances outweigh the danger of our Curses and will set us up for our ambitions.
-[X] Freedom
-[X] Affliction of Slumber
-[X] Doom of the Tyrant
-[X] Plenary Brand
-[X] The Sword That Ends the World
I think Orm has the right of it here! With a potential-based Primary Remittance, the Lesser Remittances outweigh the danger of our Curses and will set us up for our ambitions.
- Location
- Pindorama
Huh? Unless we always give Praxis training the maximal amount of priority each day, the fact of the increased opportunity cost of our spare time will harm our ability to progress. There are only so many ours in the day, as they say. The fact that this also stops even simple time-savers like not needing to sleep to massive feats of time acceleration just worsens things. It also harms our progression because even the capability to devote ourselves to a grueling regime can be relevant in certain situations, as well. Besides, if the meta-reason this plan exists is because we want to explore the Praxis, it should grab as many synergistic options towards that goal as possible.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
I just realized something. I'd like to call out that Doom of the Tyrant combined with the Plenary Brand means we're broadcasting that anybody can pick a fight with us on a whim via provocation. Also, what of the Hero's dream of spreading democratic governments?
[x]Plan Let's be the Hulk
-[x]Freedom
-[x]Doom of Lunacy
-[x]Plenary Brand
-[x]Sword that Ends the World
This plan is scalable for interested parties via the Apocryphal Curse, more power in base form with potential for a heavenshattering full power form. Or again, we could always take the 0 sacrifices, maximum difficulty route of just taking the apocryphal curse with Freedom.
[x]Plan Let's be the Hulk
-[x]Freedom
-[x]Doom of Lunacy
-[x]Plenary Brand
-[x]Sword that Ends the World
This plan is scalable for interested parties via the Apocryphal Curse, more power in base form with potential for a heavenshattering full power form. Or again, we could always take the 0 sacrifices, maximum difficulty route of just taking the apocryphal curse with Freedom.
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Enohthree
Hypersane
If it was just Sidequest Quest that would be one thing, but it would be Side Side Side Quest Quest. Any quest that doesn't involve handing over something material and instead involves any other player would spawn it's own side quest, in however long that chain exists.
Anyway! Freedom!
[X] An Immodest Proposal
-[X] Freedom
-[X] Affliction of Slumber
-[X] Doom of the Tyrant
-[X] Plenary Brand
-[X] The Sword That Ends the World
Orm's words are convincing, but also I want to be free finally. We were vengeful. Freedom was this heroes' actual aim, and he lost basically everything in the pursuit of it through things not working like they should have. It's the thing he buried his wife and child wishing they could experience.
Without Geas of Indenture we... don't have a job we need to complete lest we die! Sure I'm not sold on Plenary Brand given that it grows, but we are taking Praxis and can work on it. Plus there's something novel of 'oh hey look a whatever nonsense this guy is' quest.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Let me try to create as many viable plans as possible.
[X] Happily Ever After - The Hero has fought. He has sacrificed. He has suffered. After all that, does he not deserve some measure of peace? And in that, he understands that power is only a means to an end. Far wiser, to live a life in peace, away from an eon of tribulation. The Accursed has given him this choice of a happily ever after, of a sort, and it would be unwise not to grasp for it. It might be an imperfect ending, but such is a nature of life.
Type: Freedom
Curses: Affliction of Slumber , Doom of Lunacy
Remittance: Three Wishes
Recommended Lesser Remitances: Any
* This build selects curses to optimize for a minimum reduction in the quality of life. This does come at a steep cost in power, however.
* Maximum comfiness, no QoL reductions (No need to upgrade Doom of Lunacy to Geas of Lunacy).
* The Hero can immediately use Three Wishes to resurrect his dead friends and companions, before immediately leaving this accursed realm.
* Vengeance consumes all of a man. Do not sacrifice unwisely.
* This build makes it so that becoming a Cursebearer is effectively a straight upgrade for the Hero in nearly all regards. What it lacks in power and versatility, it makes up for in sheer quality of life.
Pros:
* Maximum QoL. No work is needed to mitigate curses, as they do not impede living standards, only proactive power.
* No personality restrictions.
* Able to live a life of obscurity and pleasantness.
* Even diminished by the Doom of Lunacy, still highly powerful.
* Three Wishes is a powerful defensive panoply that requires no training to use effectively.
Cons:
* Minimum possible power of all possible options.
* From a meta perspective it will be difficult to compel the protag to challenges.
[] Prelude to Apocalypse - No. Vengeance, no matter the cost. It might cost everything. At the end he might wonder if it had all been worth it. You might become a monster. But, such is the nature of vengeance. And you will have it.
Type: Vengeance
Curses: The Apocryphal Curse, The Geas of Indenture, The Decimator's Affliction, Brand of the Champion
Remittances: The King's Scepter
Recommended Lesser Remittances: Artifact - Hunger.
* The build selects curses to optimize power with a minimum compromise of safety (thus not selecting Plenary).
* The path of vengeance is one walked alone. There is no negotiation. Only power, death and destruction.
* As a Progression-Type, it's far more important to not attract enemies than to be able to dispatch them.
* Vengeance, no matter the cost.
Pros:
* Maximum power, curses do not impede power growth in any way whatsoever.
* Does not impede decision-making ability.
* Constant and exciting fight and other challenges scenes for players.
* Wound that walks.
Cons:
* Constant and weary challenges for the eons to come.
* Is victory truly worth it?
* Minimum comfiness.
* Wound that walks.
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Rihaku
The Internet
Rather than updating you guys when I have the chance, would you rather I post the rough benchmarks I use for thread participation rewards? I just don't want to encourage spam.
Hm... I don't know if I'd say that even 10 Lesser Remittances would fully make up for the unpleasantness of a Curse! You can take the option if you want, but the power : cost calculation is definitely far less efficient than for the mandatory curses.
tbh 5 Curses for Progression is probably still more efficient than 2 Curses for Combat. Progression just overwhelms everything by an outrageous degree in the long run.
Hm... I don't know if I'd say that even 10 Lesser Remittances would fully make up for the unpleasantness of a Curse! You can take the option if you want, but the power : cost calculation is definitely far less efficient than for the mandatory curses.
tbh 5 Curses for Progression is probably still more efficient than 2 Curses for Combat. Progression just overwhelms everything by an outrageous degree in the long run.
TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
[X]Plan Happily Ever After
I would also vote for a variant of this that replaced the Curse of Slumber with something else. Mostly, I think I want to see the protagonist get his love and child back, and I don't think any man would turn such an opportunity down.
I would also vote for a variant of this that replaced the Curse of Slumber with something else. Mostly, I think I want to see the protagonist get his love and child back, and I don't think any man would turn such an opportunity down.
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