A Simple Transaction I

DarkSideBard · May 16, 2020

I have been nurtured long in the cradle of spiteful Rihaku voters, and their gleaming, vociferous maws reach for one future and one future only....

But this Hero has lost everything, and given of his own flesh until but a thin slip of wax remains. Deep in his origin, the Isekai hero knows the truth. Beyond his attempts, beyond his failures, beyond his self-imposed shackles of duty, he knows that an opportunity like this comes less than once in a trillion lifetimes. To have two is the height of bliss in this ever-turning wheel.

And so, moving beyond the momentary demands of ego, he reaches for

[X] Freedom

And though he abandons this life, completed as it is, for a time in another sun, it remains in his memory, ever a guiding light. In his first life, he was unremarkable. In his second life, he abandoned that fate for a hero's, but remembered the lessons of his birth. So it goes for this next life. The hero refuses to become a calamity; the man refuses to give all to heroism once more. He will settle for another role.

[X] Doom of the Tyrant
[X] Plenary Brand

No more nobles. No more royalty. No more kingdoms, no more polities, no more politics. No more institutions, no more systems, no more authorities. No more waiting.

I am the tyrant, now.

No more strings.

[X] The Sword That Ends The World

Lealope · May 16, 2020

An idle thought but here's the choices I imagine the Hero would take if we weren't in the driver's seat.

[ ] Choosing Happiness
-[ ] Freedom
-[ ] Affliction of Slumber
-[ ] Doom of the Tyrant
-[ ] Three Wishes

Ask the Accursed to resurrect your wife and to direct you to a nice little corner of the omniverse where you can live in peace, at least for a while. Make a life with your spouse and children, use your powers to protect and nourish, make things better wherever you find yourself. Train when you have the time but never forget that power won't bring happiness; that's a lesson both your life and your patron have made clear.

Perhaps you'll never see the sky above the sky, never achieve vengeance against the gods, never drink from all the joys and sufferings of eternity. But you'll be happy and healthy and have your family at your side. You'll be a good husband, a good father, a good king and a good man.

Isn't that enough?

Maragas · May 16, 2020

Rihaku said:
Remember that the hero only has one hand, one eye, and is missing half a lung.

Oh yeah, can we recover them or are we stuck with them like Odin after his hanging?

Rihaku · May 16, 2020

Aabcehmu said:
Rihaku, is it incidental that [ ] The Sword That Ends The World is described as 'the Praxis' rather than 'the Imperial Praxis', or will this remittance be granting us access to a different tier or version thereof?

The Praxis is the Imperial Praxis, yes. It's the lesser forms that have to include the prefix for clarification.

vali said:
The measure of a man is in the quality of his enemies. I'll work as hard as I can to make his death bitter and glorious.

You should vote for a different Primary Remittance if you desire to live long enough to achieve a glorious death!

Skeletickles said:
I just finished catching up with the thread, and I'm getting the impression that many of the people here come from Rihaku's previous quests.

Welcome! I hope it's accessible to new players.

Elero said:
But Lesser Remittances can be allies/minions, no? How would having a powerful ally to protect us not grant immediate power? Do we need to work hard to get their favour before they'll fight for us, even if just to save our life from a stray wandering ork?

The companions on offer are usually not primary combatants. It's assumed the Cursebearer will fill that role. And yes, they're not automatically loyal to you, though the Accursed wouldn't offer them if they weren't compatible at all.

vali said:
These seem to contradict each other.

How so?

DarkSideBard said:
I am the tyrant, now.

No more strings.

Affliction of Slumber could be good for such a build as well! Comfy vacation life, plenty of time of sleep!

Elero · May 16, 2020

Actually, since our hero has spent some time fighting in a fantasy setting against the tyrant, does he come with any combat skills or maybe even the setting's magic system learned? Even if he is physically crippled, if we find a way to restore their body it could be really useful.

Orm Embar · May 16, 2020

Rozencrantz said:
For that matter, Nameless had mediocre suitability, and he need three curses(and four orbs) just for power type

Before becoming Nameless, EFB's protagonist lived a dissolute life as a cog in the corporate machine, ineffectually assuaging emptiness with hedonism. Now that we're through with him, he's living a fulfilling life assuaging emptiness with marital bliss and phenomenal cosmic power, having carried out his mentor's vengeance. It's a bit nebulous what it means to be 'pure in mind and body', but Nameless certainly wasn't. His suitability was mediocre and the conditions imperfect, to quote the Accursed. Our Hero may have dabbled in forbidden techniques and tied the knot, but there's definitely a consistent thread of conviction in his actions. He has high compatibility with the Praxis, which might be a decent heuristic for mental purity.

~~[X] The Sword That (Actually) Ends The World, but with more stuff~~ Invalidated by WoG.

The idea here is to use the additional Remittances to buff our starting power as much as possible. With both Indenture and the Apocryphal Curse's ominousness breathing down our neck, a shortage of starting power means we might as well start picking out coffins. If the default version of the Sword plan wins, it's absolutely imperative that we take Lesser Curses to shore up this weakness. Good news is, we might qualify for the Brand of the Chaste! The Hero's not a virgin but 'horrific tragedy' is an apt description of his life up until this point. Go full Ryūken; having lost one love, he'll harden his heart against repeating past mistakes. Shame about no Mutilating Affliction, sacrificing limbs for powerups is a time-honored Rihaku quest tradition, but the protagonist beat us to the punch.

I reserve the right to ricochet shamelessly from option to option as I reread and mull over the opening. I did spot one error on the first pass, though, it appears that taking Gisena as a companion doesn't grant any Lesser Remittances? Is this meant to imply her company isn't a Curse?

formalAI · May 16, 2020

Skeletickles said:
Survivability is key for a Progression-type.

I agree! Which is why I wonder why you voted for the one remittance that does not provide initial survivablity?

Rihaku · May 16, 2020

Maragas said:
Oh yeah, can we recover them or are we stuck with them like Odin after his hanging?

There's nothing stopping you from healing them if you have the means. They just don't come pre-healed!

Elero said:
Actually, since our hero has spent some time fighting in a fantasy setting against the tyrant, does he come with any combat skills or maybe even the setting's magic system learned? Even if he is physically crippled, if we find a way to restore their body it could be really useful.

Yup, but he's far weaker than he once was. Still, any Remittance that grants immediate power can more than compensate for his physical injuries, at least in the realm of battle. Or you could use a wish to restore him to his apex!

Unelemental · May 16, 2020

Orm Embar said:
I did spot one error on the first pass, though, it appears that taking Gisena as a companion doesn't grant any Lesser Remittances? Is this meant to imply her company isn't a Curse?

We'd probably get free sandwiches out of it even with the Brand of the Champion, seeing how in no world it would constitute a favour, so at least we wouldn't starve?

George · May 16, 2020

[X] Freedom
[X] Affliction of Slumber
[X] Plenary Brand
[X] The Sword That Ends The World
We stand with a hollow victory and a desire to fight for Freedom, Justice, and Truth. Let's act on that desire, seize our freedom, and go find happiness in the world by wielding our Selfhood as a weapon against those who dare stop us. It has magic, agency, and leaves room for us to enjoy our successes. Happiness doesn't come from chasing down every grievance and accumulating power - it comes from letting go and building up and not having obstacles to what we enjoy. These choices provide that.

Curse Commentary in the context of the Freedom choice:
[ ] The Geas of Indenture
We've paid so much to complete just a single task - signing up for another octillion similar endeavours is too much to ask.
[ ] The Decimator's Affliction
We will never realize our ideals of Freedom, Justice, and Truth if we are a bane to every civilization we join.
[ ] Affliction of Slumber
Half a life... but half a life lived well is still a good life. It has challenges to be sure, but every Cruse does. We will need to seek defenses through our Lesser Remittance.
[ ] Brand of the Champion
This leads to an onerous and lonely life filled with complication - we need to build up our Self and learn how to be happy and spread our ideals.
[ ] Doom of the Tyrant
This is indeed a Doom - one to risk becoming that which we hated and spent all we had to defeat.
[ ] Doom of Lunacy
Sealed power and uncontrollable rampages - too angsty, dangerous, and tragic in my opinion.
[ ] Plenary Brand
When you have the power to back it up and the freedom to leave, why worry about people knowing?
[ ] The Apocryphal Curse
We're directly told not to take this - let's stick to that.

Maragas · May 16, 2020

Orm Embar said:
Before becoming Nameless, EFB's protagonist lived a dissolute life as a cog in the corporate machine, ineffectually assuaging emptiness with hedonism. Now that we're through with him, he's living a fulfilling life assuaging emptiness with marital bliss and phenomenal cosmic power, having carried out his mentor's vengeance.

I want to add to this. Nameless can and did that. If we take Vengeance here we will virtually never manage to do that. We will always on the move, always under the chance of dying, always burdened by curses. No matter what our power level is we will be under danger even if we survive the start.
If we take Vengeance here we will have no hope for a fulfilling life.

Rihaku said:
Or you could use a wish to restore him to his apex!

Isn't he technically in his apex since he become Cursebearer?
Joking aside I wouldn't vote for a wish like that even with a progressive type. We can either get a healer or have one of our powers be a healing power.

Skeletickles · May 16, 2020

formalAI said:
I agree! Which is why I wonder why you voted for the one remittance that does not provide initial survivablity?

I'll admit a large part of my choice was because Praxis sounds cool, but I do really like the reliability and potential power it offers. I don't think it will be a major issue since both of my choices for Curses allow for powerleveling in peace.

Unelemental · May 16, 2020

You know what? That sounds fine.

[X] Freedom
[X] Affliction of Slumber
[X] Plenary Brand
[X] The Sword That Ends The World

This way we can learn the Praxis and live our life without being suicidal about it.

Dark Lord Bob · May 16, 2020

I am quite tempted by the various Freedom+Wishes votes. It sounds fun. But I know I'd regret not voting for the Praxis, so:
[X] The Sword That Ends The World

Freedom or Vengeance are both fine with me.

George · May 16, 2020

Skeletickles said:
I just finished catching up with the thread, and I'm getting the impression that many of the people here come from Rihaku's previous quests. I haven't, so I'm probably missing some context, but here are my votes:

welcome

Don't worry about missed context, your position is still valid! In my opinion, as long as you read all of Rihaku's posts in the thread, you'll have plenty of knowledge to offer good arguments in defense of your choices throughout the quest.

Rihaku · May 16, 2020

runeblue360 said:
Ask the Accursed to resurrect your wife and to direct you to a nice little corner of the omniverse where you can live in peace, at least for a while. Make a life with your spouse and children, use your powers to protect and nourish, make things better wherever you find yourself. Train when you have the time but never forget that power won't bring happiness; that's a lesson both your life and your patron have made clear.

Doom of Lunacy could work well here if you intend to rarely ever use your power. And the hero's wife might be compatible with the Geas!

Unelemental said:
We'd probably get free sandwiches out of it even with the Brand of the Champion, seeing how in no world it would constitute a favour, so at least we wouldn't starve?

I doubt you'd want the sandwiches Gisena makes... Jeanne's an amazing cook, Gisena's also an amazing cook but in a different way!

George said:
We're directly told not to take this - let's stick to that.

A wise choice!

Maragas said:
Isn't he technically in his apex since he become Cursebearer?
Joking aside I wouldn't vote for a wish like that even with a progressive type. We can either get a healer or have one of our powers be a healing power.

Well, if he's a Progression type with no immediate power, he'd certainly be weaker than he was at his apex, since he'd have no additional strength and numerous additional Curses!

BrainInAJar · May 16, 2020

Having all that power, and wanting to do nothing with it. After all those complaints about EFB lacking stakes and conflict. The easy path is not often the most rewarding. Happiness is naturally fleeting. If the Accursed advises against this path, then he is just being a hypocrite. If he wanted happiness without responsibility, he had ample opportunities to do so. Some would say the multiverse is a better place thanks to him. By what right does he have to begrudge us for following his path? I don't think he would choose not to go on the path he did, had he the opportunity to undo it. Why not aspire to something greater? Is giving up on his original ideal for personal happiness really the best option?

Rihaku said:
Important PSA: Lesser Remittances do not grant immediate power. The best they can do is strengthen your Primary Remittance some, but if your Primary Remittance has a starting power of 0 due to being purely potential-based, like The Sword, that would not solve your problem.

Crud. Well, if things get tight, I'll be sure yo change my vote.

Maragas said:
I want to add to this. Nameless can and did that. If we take Vengeance here we will virtually never manage to do that. We will always on the move, always under the chance of dying, always burdened by curses. No matter what our power level is we will be under danger even if we survive the start.
If we take Vengeance here we will have no hope for fulfilling life.

What is a "fulfilling" life, Maragas? We will be cursed no matter what. Hiding our head beneath the sand doesn't cause the world to disappear.

Do you all seriously want to give up? You all seem to labor under the illusion that a fulfilling life is one of abdication. Of rejection of responsibility. As a Hero, if those who caused so much suffering are still at large, isn't it our responsibility to stop them? What would have been the point of even killing the Tyrant? It's just so meaningless.

Elero · May 16, 2020

Do you guys actually want to see the Praxis put to use? Vote Freedom! Freed from the desperate need to ramp up immediately and not be snuffed out, we can take all the time we need to study the Praxis!

Shard · May 16, 2020

Rihaku said:
[ ] Freedom - The eyes of the Accursed open. The ghost of a smile plays across his face, almost too quickly to catch. "Perhaps the wiser choice. Be careful which burdens you undertake; they will accompany you for eons to come. Go, enjoy your freedom. You've earned it."

*Become a Combat-type Cursebearer, granted immense personal might at the cost of 2 Curses.
*Yours will be power sufficient to crack planets and shatter nations, to drown the oceans themselves in ash, blot out sun and stars, the fire and impact of a nuclear bombardment as immaterial as rain against your skin.
*Your power will include some means of travel between worlds, allowing you to depart this wretched realm.
*Unless you decide otherwise, relatively comfy quest of nation-building, adventuring & slacking off.
*Perhaps the best revenge is living well.

-Granted power will not grow naturally.
-It is unlikely you will ever discover the truth behind your suffering, much less avenge yourself upon its architects. But the strings are cut, you are a puppet no more. Forget them, and live on.

Comfy nation building. Pretty nice all in all.

Rihaku said:
[ ] Vengeance - "...If that is what you wish."

"If you survive, no power will be beyond you. In time, there will be no blade you cannot sunder, no force you cannot rout, no foe you cannot ruin, no throne you cannot claim. Take care that you do not become that which you despise."

*Become a Progression-type Cursebearer, granted the potential to attain power beyond all reason through ingenuity and effort, at the cost of the Geas of Indenture, the Apocryphal Curse, and 2 additional Curses.
*Receive only a modest boon of power to start, but you will almost certainly grow rapidly.
*The Geas will take you away from this place, to a world more conducive to your growth, though no less dangerous.
*Should you survive the trials to come, you will almost certainly grow strong enough to plumb this realm of its secrets and overcome its true masters.
*Some say the best revenge is living well. They are lying to themselves. One can strive to live well regardless, but there is no true substitute for revenge. No substitute for doing unto them what they did unto you, for passing sentence upon their richly deserving selves. King or noble, brazen masters or hidden ones... it matters not. When the hour arrives at last, there will be no justice here. Only vengeance.

-Limited initial power
-Forced to take a large number of Curses
-Including the dreaded Apocryphal Curse

Perpetual power escalation similar to EFB. In theory, permanent and incessant number of challenges to create an exciting and fun quest. Quite likely to be true due to Apocyhral Curse+Geas of Indenture. Promises constant, exciting fight scenes! Not so nice for the Hero, but thems the breaks.

Man, Seram really is special if he never had to go through that.

Though it seems his Remittances were also initially weaker due to his low level?

Rihaku said:
[ ] The Regalia - A crown and throne of stars.

A combination of Remittances. While it lacks in focus, it presents its recipient with an arsenal of superior versatility. A practical choice that focuses on minimizing risk and mitigating downside.

*Fortune: Once, upon your death or suffering of an unacceptable loss, you may rewind the relevant timelines up to one hundred years, though not to any point before you became a Cursebearer. All Cursebearers will retain their memories of the period rewound. Triggers unprompted if you die unexpectedly.
*Force: You will acquire a modest but useful superpower synergistic with your existing capabilities.
*Favor: Choose one additional Lesser Remittance.
*Wild: Copy any one of the above effects, making new choices for the copy.

Any powers granted by Remittances are scaled to your current power unless otherwise noted. A Combat-type Cursebearer would receive a greater boon than a starting Progression-type, though the latter might need it more...

Several questions:

Is Fortune a once-only thing, or does it recharge, either over time or by doing stuff for the Accursed?
Is Wild a permanent choice? Can it be a temporary one that we change as according to our situation?

formalAI · May 16, 2020

Skeletickles said:
I'll admit a large part of my choice was because Praxis sounds cool, but I do really like the reliability and potential power it offers. I don't think it will be a major issue since both of my choices for Curses allow for powerleveling in peace.

I really, really doubt we'll have the opportunity to powerlevel in peace if we have to deal with the Apocryphal Curse. Plus Rihaku explicitely stated that picking Vengeance and Sword together was a bad idea:

Rihaku said:
I agree! Taking Vengeance and Sword together is a fundamental risk. It's not something you can really buy or work your way out of; if like Seram you are attacked right out the gate, there's a significant chance you will die. Remember that the hero only has one hand, one eye, and is missing half a lung.

Orm Embar said:
The idea here is to use the additional Remittances to buff our starting power as much as possible.

That doesn't work:

Rihaku said:
Important PSA: Lesser Remittances do not grant immediate power. The best they can do is strengthen your Primary Remittance some, but if your Primary Remittance has a starting power of 0 due to being purely potential-based, like The Sword, that would not solve your problem.

Rihaku · May 16, 2020

Orm Embar said:
The idea here is to use the additional Remittances to buff our starting power as much as possible. With both Indenture and the Apocryphal Curse's ominousness breathing down our neck, a shortage of starting power means we might as well start picking out coffins. If the default version of the Sword plan wins, it's absolutely imperative that we take Lesser Curses to shore up this weakness. Good news is, we might qualify for the Brand of the Chaste! The Hero's not a virgin but 'horrific tragedy' is an apt description of his life up until this point. Go full Ryūken; having lost one love, he'll harden his heart against repeating past mistakes. Shame about no Mutilating Affliction, sacrificing limbs for powerups is a time-honored Rihaku quest tradition, but the protagonist beat us to the punch.

There won't be any Lesser Curses this time, since you're taking so many Greater Curses. I don't want to draw focus away from them. Plus, there are probably going to be enough chargen build votes anyway!!

BrainInAJar said:
If he wanted happiness without responsibility, he had ample opportunities to do so. Some would say the multiverse is a better place thanks to him. By what right does he have to begrudge us for following his path?

Vengeance isn't about making the multiverse a better place!

Shard said:
Though it seems his Remittances were also initially weaker due to his low level?

Hm... I'd say they were different, not necessarily weaker. Pay to Win is basically a stockpile of defensive True Wishes. New Game Plus is a more powerful but narrower Regalia. Game of the Year is King's Scepter, weaker in absolute terms but proportionally pretty much the same. And Admin Privilege is The Sword That Ends the World.

Fortune doesn't recharge, Wild is one-time use, yup.

Mannan · May 16, 2020

[X] Freedom
[X] Affliction of Slumber
[X] Plenary Brand
[X] The Sword That Ends The World

I'm choosing freedom because seeking out Vengeance for payback rings really hollow if, in the pursuit of it, you ruin yourself. The Hero is already a ruined wreck but he can recover, especially with the power of a remittance. I am interested in a story where the Hero builds himself back up and generally tries to live a happy life.

The Praxis is because even without being a progression type curse bearer should the need arise the Hero can grow stronger. Perhaps not at the same rate as a Progression Type, but the Praxis is meant to have no limits so long as one is willing to sacrifice and for the Hero that chose Freedom anything that would require him to grow stronger would be something that would push him to develop his praxis further.

VNodosaurus · May 16, 2020

The Geas of Indenture fundamentally removes most of the persistent world of the story. It is, IMO, sort of a distillation of the problem with isekai-type stories of any kind. Unless we never got out of our starting world, I mean, but.

The Greater Remittance... well, Praxis is a lot more useful without taking Vengeance, and none of the others especially interest me. It does imply a theme that's not entirely focused on vacationing, and so works best with one of the Curses being one that inspires action. Decimator's is kind of evil-Indenture-lite to a sufficient extent for me to avoid it. Apocryphal Curse would be very fitting, actually, and covers both Curse slots, but the QM telling us not to take it is kind of a strong signal. Brand of the Champion would actually work really well, and could then be combined with Slumber or Lunacy (both of which have the main negative effect of lowering our growth, which is much less of an issue with Freedom+Sword); Tyrant similarly cripples our diplomatic ability in a way that's less fitting for our character and doesn't provide plot hooks. Plenary, finally, requires work on mitigation, but that's a less immediate need. Between Slumber and Lunacy, my instinct is Champion+Slumber or Plenary+Lunacy, because Lunacy is a more severe nerf but offers less room for our enemies to exploit it, though then again Sword offers an element of progression and presumably curse-mitigation regardless and thereby is anti-synergestic with Lunacy. Or we could go Champion+Plenary and just sacrifice social.

...And I still kind of want to take Apocryphal, even if I know it's a bad idea.

For the moment:

[X] Freedom
[X] The Sword That Ends The World
[X] Affliction of Slumber
[X] Brand of the Champion

Humbaba · May 16, 2020

I don't get people picking [ ] The Decimator's Affliction on either the freedom or vengeance paths. It doesn't follow at all from the character introduced in the opening post and just smacks of mechanics based bullshit. At the end of the day, the hero still held to his idealistic dreams of a better world. This is at minimum a 1/2 a continent scale wide (up to solar system wide for combat types) death effect that @Rihaku literally says can kill weaker people and will shave 10% of the lifespan off of everyone else in range per year. Imagine how many dead children, elderly and just plain unwell people that is per year. The hero is actively choosing to kill hundreds of thousands or millions of people by his very presence each year. And mitigation is explicitly called out as being really hard and really unpleasant.

That basically breaks the character from the intro, right there and it infuriates me that so many people are picking it.

Onto actual plans:
[X]Plan True Vengeance is a Life Well Lived

I don't really have too much to say here. I'm tired of vengeance over sanity. So let's pick freedom. Improve this corner of the multiverse.

Picked the plan with the three wishes because I can't see the character not wanting to revive his wife and child and going for any other option seems to lock that out. Praxis especially sounds nice, but we'd already be ridiculously powerful and infinite potential you're unlikely to ever actually reach < Actually achieving all your wildest dreams.

Mannan · May 16, 2020

Are we doing plan votes or regular votes?

A Simple Transaction I

Flying, without moving on

Not yet invincible

Nothing to see here.

The Internet

Refutation

The Internet

Nothing to see here.

The Internet

One and Many

The Internet