- Location
- Argentina
Hmm. I would have thought that this would come naturally if those are integrated.
But assuming things is bad for business. I can get behind this too
Tales of History - A Civ-Builder Quest
- Thread starter Azel
- Start date
- Original
Hmm. I would have thought that this would come naturally if those are integrated.
But assuming things is bad for business. I can get behind this too
Ancient Scholar
Amateur Editor/Beta
- Location
- United States
Man, this is a fine mess. Was there a mistake that was done that could ha e prevented this? I hope we can restore the Mandate and get back to forming an Empire as soon as we can. Feels like we are falling behind and Bushcrest is more powerful then us, if this continues I don't think we would be able to catch up and the AI will crush us.
- Location
- Germany
The plan is enough, but as recent votes show, it can help to make intentions more clear.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
Scouting more turns before attacking.
- Location
- Germany
[X] Tomcost
GildedSergeant
Tarnished Gold and Rattling Bones
- Location
- Over There
- Pronouns
- They/Them
- Location
- Germany
They have a chance to decay / morph, but you also have a chance to pick up new ones. This process is greatly influenced by the actions of all factions.
Take for example the silver mine. If the Artisans hadn't rushed it to finish this turn and Greenvalley ran into a massive culture deficit, it would have raised the chance of Perseverance being straight up lost. Had they only spent some token effort instead, it could have still been downgraded to a Fad.
- Location
- Denmark
Something that has me a bit worried about the argument is, if it sounds too much like we are siding with the Artisans.
We are to a certain extent not going to maintain a position of neutrality, but I would at least prefer to not seem like we are siding with one faction over another.
@Azel Would you say that the argumentation used in this plan sounds like something known to be a position held by the Artisans?
- Location
- Argentina
This benefits the artisans, but it is incidental. What we want is to not get devoured by the outside world while we sit in our little Valley. And that involves poking your head outside from time to time.
- Location
- Denmark
I agree that the argument is good that ought to appeal somewhat to their way of thinking, but my concern is about is about how the Fishes will react, when they hear it.
If it sounds like a argument that they are used to hearing from the Artisans, then it might be possible that it would backfire, even if they trust the Bone Tenders a lot more than the Artisans.
- Location
- Argentina
There must be some sort of middle ground, and we are spending a damned lot of culture on changing their ways. The artisans could be moderated once we know what they are doing.
Speaking of which, I'm amenable on sacrificing one culture to send a diplomat to the artisans and know what they are doing.
- Location
- Denmark
Yeah, I guess that would really influence, if it was something the Artisans would say.
- Location
- Argentina
I'm answering for myself, but I think that this actitude is easier to achieve than outright losing the isolationism interest.
@Artemis1992 ,@thefoolswriter ,@Kirron 999,@looseanon, do you agree?
Well it could be economic protectionism sure, but id like to think more in line with the serf's safety goal. Just general protectionism. Diplomatic, military, cultural. The whole nine yards. Ignoring the world is a really bad idea especially when we are not isolated.
I MEAN FISHES FOR THE LOVE OF THE ANCESTORS WE WERE NEARLY BURNED TO THE GROUND. How stupid can they be...
Yes getting rid of isolationism is very likely going to be significantly harder than just changing to a less extreme version of it. (I know protectionism is an economic term but its protection-ism instead of isolation-ism so thats how im treating it for the purposes of the game)
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- Location
- yorkshire
I agree we cant get rid of isolationism but tuning it down is the best we can do for now
- Location
- Denmark
Well, I guess that we next turn then will have to get the Artisans to accept not trading, since I am unsure how they can trade, if they cannot import stuff.
- Location
- Argentina
Bear in mind that the problem is with importing what they produce. Why would they be opposed to importing one new kind of shiny?
- Location
- Denmark
Yeah, I guess you are right that protectionism means the protection of existing industries, which makes it less limiting.
The Fishes does seem like to be the types to be all about self-sufficiency so it sounds like a good idea, while still a bit weird, since nothing is really threatening their occupation of food production just yet.
Satar
Xetares, Third Redeemer; World Drinker
- Location
- Sesh
Rationale: Effectively we've got +4 Culture (3 from White Halls, 1 from Pilgrim Village. I want to save at least 2 so our Cultural Ideals/Identities don't disappear overnight. I'm also being conservative about what we change. Fundamentally the disagreement between the Artisans and the Fishes is about trade, and so trade's the only thing where the Fishes have to make a slight concession. I don't imagine the Artisans will be too bothered about heathen lowlanders not being allowed into the Valley (since conversion loophole and, you know, they can sail down to Brushcrest or Riverbend to trade anyway. Also it only says the valley, nothing about any settlements we might found outside it). I'm also subtly pushing for Fishes tolerating some manner of alliance or entanglement with the lowlands, but rarely and not too much. Frankly I think this positions the Fishes nicely to be the canary in the coal mine if we over-commit ourselves to lowlander politcal affairs instead of patiently waiting for them to hit their bust period and become easy pickings. Though, by all means, the trade part is the preeminent focus and I won't weep if the alliance toleration bit is a dud.
As for White Clans, with Stone Age tech, distance is going to be a killer, so they can have their mountain representative. However, to maintain some level of centralization and culture-control, we do need the White Halls to do the training. It's a decent compromise.
[X] Plan Bishoprics & Coalitions Of The Willing
-[X] [Training] Begin recruiting orphans from among the clans and have them brought to the White Halls for training.
-[X] [Authority] The issue of distance needs to be resolved. Let the White Halls congregation name a representative who will hold sway over the Bone Tenders in the mountains.
-[X] Try to influence a faction.
--[X] Fishes
--[X] Remind the Fishes that while it is all well and good for heathen lowlanders to be barred from the Valley, it is also normal for the Valley People to venture forth, for it is the whole world that is given to the People of the Valley by the Ancestors. It is only when the Valley People become too entangled in the affairs of the lowlanders that disaster strikes. But to trade away one's excess, or to empower some few traders to venture forth and make money/spread the faith, is nothing to be feared. (Summary: heathens shouldn't be allowed into the Valley and the Valley should avoid becoming too enmeshed in the political affairs of the lowlands; but having our traders in the lowlands is fine and even desirable, because it might help spread the faith as well as warn the People of future lowlander perfidy).
--[X] Spend 2 culture
-[X] Gain +1 Culture to spend this turn.
-[X] (Optional) Change the focus of the Pilgrim Village.
--[X] Encourage own culture. (+1 Valley People Culture in Greenvalley)
As for White Clans, with Stone Age tech, distance is going to be a killer, so they can have their mountain representative. However, to maintain some level of centralization and culture-control, we do need the White Halls to do the training. It's a decent compromise.
[X] Plan Bishoprics & Coalitions Of The Willing
-[X] [Training] Begin recruiting orphans from among the clans and have them brought to the White Halls for training.
-[X] [Authority] The issue of distance needs to be resolved. Let the White Halls congregation name a representative who will hold sway over the Bone Tenders in the mountains.
-[X] Try to influence a faction.
--[X] Fishes
--[X] Remind the Fishes that while it is all well and good for heathen lowlanders to be barred from the Valley, it is also normal for the Valley People to venture forth, for it is the whole world that is given to the People of the Valley by the Ancestors. It is only when the Valley People become too entangled in the affairs of the lowlanders that disaster strikes. But to trade away one's excess, or to empower some few traders to venture forth and make money/spread the faith, is nothing to be feared. (Summary: heathens shouldn't be allowed into the Valley and the Valley should avoid becoming too enmeshed in the political affairs of the lowlands; but having our traders in the lowlands is fine and even desirable, because it might help spread the faith as well as warn the People of future lowlander perfidy).
--[X] Spend 2 culture
-[X] Gain +1 Culture to spend this turn.
-[X] (Optional) Change the focus of the Pilgrim Village.
--[X] Encourage own culture. (+1 Valley People Culture in Greenvalley)
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ThatGazzer
Minds Eye Bind
- Location
- PNW
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[X] Plan Bishoprics & Coalitions Of The Willing
Satar
Xetares, Third Redeemer; World Drinker
- Location
- Sesh
In all honesty, accepting outside contact but rejecting outside imports would really be the worst of all worlds. Imports/Exports or trade in general is the biggest sticking point between the Fishes and the Artisans. We should want the Fishes to be more amenable to trade, not less.