- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Amble.... amble...? That should be Ample.
A Game of Crowns (Mafia)
- Thread starter LostDeviljho
- Start date
- Mafia
Amble.... amble...? That should be Ample.
- Location
- US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
But why would you and @PyrrosWarrior have to be allied? If you're town you have no way of knowing more about Pyrros than any of the rest of us. He could be scum and his ally could be 1K or IH or Cyri or anybody really.Not even my paper, its my mother's. If it was mine I'd willing procrastinate more.
Lines of Logic:
Assuming the set-up has 5 scum, and 3 currently aligned scum alive.
- If we lynch DG and they are town, game is over and scum have majority after night phase.
- If we lynch Pyrros and they are town, game is over and scum have majority after night phase.
- If we lynch DG and they are scum, game continues with 2 scum remaining and 5 town remaining, dropping to 2 v 4 during the following day phase. Amble information to be gained from the last lynch.
- If we lynch Pyrros and they are scum, game continues with 2 scum remaining and 5 town remaining, dropping to 2 v 4 during the following day phase. Amble information to be gained from the last lynch.
Assuming the set-up has 4 scum, and 2 currently aligned scum alive.
- If we lynch DG and they are town, Pyrros must be scum, and scum make it to 2v4 going into the next phase Pyrros is lynched and game simplifies to 1v3 the following day.
- If we lynch Pyrros and they are town, DG must be scum, and scum make it to 2v4 going into the next phase, DG is lynched and game simplifies to 1v3 the following day.
- If we lynch DG and they are scum, game becomes 1v5 the next day phase and the game has one mislynch and a no lynch possible for town victory.
- If we lynch Pyrros and they are scum, game becomes 1v5 the next day phase and the game has one mislynch and a no lynch possible for town victory.
However, a DG death provides the following,
-If scum DG's following "information" becomes suspect. Night 1 Cyric's "use" of their ability is no longer a point in their favor, n2 I lose any evidence of myself not being the roleblocker, and the claim that Pyrros visited Nictis the night they died as a vanilla is thrown away.
-If town DG's following information becomes truth. Night 1 Cyric in some form either visited Nictis, or their claimed ability resulted in DG being deflected into someone visiting Nictis, I am confirmed to be not the Roleblocker, Pyrros is confirmed to be Scum.
Thus a confirmed DG as town results in more solid information, and a confirmed scum DG results in much less conflict down the line.
Also... frankly a big reason is looking at the vote the three voting for Pyrros have a high chance of being a 3 man scum team (that Meso just voted for Pyrros excluded) and from my perspective knowing I'm town I know I'm not trying to support a scum ally, thus that line of thought doesn't work.
So hopefully this doesn't come back to bite me but I believe it is fair to assume that the way I've played this day indicates that Pyrros and I are aligned if pyrros is indeed scum, if they are scum I'm legitmantly not but its a fair assumption to make.
So people need to try and indicate what makes more sense to them a Pyrros/CT scum team, or a scum team that includes DG with Cyric, IH, and 1k. In either a 2 or 3 remaining scum game.
So what makes more sense to the game, a Pyrros/CT scum team where neither of us can be the roleblocker (thus a third individual 1k/Hobo/DG must be the 3rd scum.
Or
A scum team that includes DG with either 1 or two of Cyric/Hobo/1k. Or me making a strange play against my ally I guess?
Or you could be a ninja roleblocker and there is just the two of you.
It doesn't make sense if you, Pyrros, and DG are a scum team. Why would DG reveal who visited Nictis in that case? If there are three of you, it would have to be you, PW, and 1k or IH.
If you have some better reasoning for thinking Pyrros is town (a claim which you have repeatedly made) I'd really like to know what it is. We're well past the point town should be keeping secrets from each other.
- Location
- US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I figured asking would give DG the excuse to lie to the scum. I didn't expect them to tell us the truth.
- Location
- US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Null I need to think on this more.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
If there are 3 remaining scum, they would in likely wish to be on the same lynch on any player that isn't them as that is their win condition. I know for certain I am town, and I've had a town read on Pyrros since day 3, Pyrros has been the longest vanilla claim in-game. Currently, only myself and Pyrros are voting DG, while DG, 1k, and Cyric (before you) were voting Pyrros, Cyric and 1k utilizing the "not as risky lynch argument because Pyrros is claimed vanilla, and both arguing against this being mylo, and even harder against disorganized scum team. From my perspective, it is very simple to see a DG, 1k, and Cyric scum team from my vantage point. However, as others can not have such information available to them (basically the certainty that I am town, and thus not defending a scum ally) it is fair for one to try and assume that I am allied scum with Pyrros in the case that Pyrros is scum defending my ally for a "win" over the night phase. However if one assumes such it is most likely for one to assume that DG in turn is telling the truth which indicates that 3 scum must exist and neither myself or Pyrros are the roleblocker (and frankly a ninja roleblocker in this set-up would be bastard in the build that this game appears to be in and that is the only other explanation. And yet we don't really have a 2nd voice fighting for Pyrros, the best bet would be Hobo, which is certainly a theory that could fit, but Hobo is being extra non-committal on this vote.
Basically, because I know I'm not scum and am defending Pyrros, and that I believe we have 3 scum remaining at this time, scum's win condition is to live through this day phase with a lynch on any town, and the easiest option to push in a 1k/DG/Cyric scum team is Pyrros claimed vanilla, and not known to be part of the neighborhood that "copped" players. The only other option for that scum team to have reasonable pushed is myself, and I'm tenacious and... well inconsistent under the knife, but I am known to be able to defend myself.
Man... I'm concerned this doesn't really get my point across and just comes off as rambling but it just kinda a trail of thought reasoning.
- Location
- Hell
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I mean, I don't think it's MYLO, but I'm pretty sure my vote wouldn't be different? Like, if people can make the case for a scum DG/town PW, I'll hear it. I just don't really have much of a read either way. I can see why town!comi could see a 3stack, but honestly I'm... not really on board with cyri's reasoning. It's just I haven't seen much in the way of anything on either side, at least nothing fresh enough to be relevant for me.
- Location
- US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The first reason I could find for ComiTutle to declar PyrrosWarrior town was when Pyrros called out his fakeclaim about being a survivor way back when.
It might have been a set piece intended to sell them having a strong town read for one another as scum buddies, but if so they laid the foundation a ways back.
Cyricubed
Residant Bird.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him/Birb
I'm pushing against it because I think a disorganized scum team would be Bastard to me. Not to mention, if there were 5 scum in this game, it'd be endable by the end of Day 3 with perfect play. I strongly doubt any game is designed to not last till at least End of Day 3 under worst case scenario for town.
Except the town read reasonings is poor. They only town read Pyrros because he pushed against him for his claim for easy to deduce flavor reasonings? Like, please, that's bland and it's why I can't trust Comi's judgement right now.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
To be fair I agree with you a lot there, I disagree with Nictis being a killing role super strongly. And a ton of what Evenstar has pointed out does feel like ghost stories and getting lost in trying to find a cool but unlikely theory. (To be fair its one of the ways I scum hunt, assume a condition and see where it takes you, but its not the most reliable).
Yes, my opinion from them "counter" claiming my survivor flavoring does continue to paint part of my town read on Pyrros. Perhaps more than it should.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Can I please get who you think is the "second" scum then?
- Location
- Hell
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Also, thinking about it, 6 or more disorganized scum isn't possible, because if that were the case, since there'd theoretically be 2 down and 4 remaining they could all just lynch Evenstar/Meso and win the game, even if they didn't have contact with eachother. They could just go masks off, claim scum, and end the game here.
- Location
- US
- Pronouns
- He/Him
@DimensionalGuy can you explain why you chose your targets to track each night?
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yep, I said hard max is 5 for disorganized scum. Unless you wanted to assume multiple groups of scum, which does seem to be the more popular theory at this time. 1-3, 2-2, 2-3, 2-4, 3-3 is the possible ways one could set a multiple scum faction that could be reasonable. (the just complete lack of a second kill I feel hurts this theory).
I believe the alternate theory would be the following: LTTL Nictis were just trying to get into this neighborhood and thus have no-kill abilities, and then there is a 2 or 3 man scum team remaining that have the classic kill game. Or one could assume that there is a 3rd Brotherhood member but in this theory I don't see that as possible.
Cyricubed
Residant Bird.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him/Birb
I already told you my thoughts on that.
Pyrros scum narrows it to either you or IH for scum.
I lean further towards IH being scum simply because Even got locked down hard the exact same night after IH gets recruited and then I also look at Nictis's day plays. Nictis actively pushed you and kept mentioning Me to go back to, while also declaring his Town read of 1k. Meanwhile Pyrros's only main stay of activity was when they pushed against your claim...got a loud town read from you, which you hammered over everyone's heads up till now and then disappeared for the rest of the game really. DG was a bit the same but at least gave some reasonings to that with his claim.
And going back to nictis play, he more or less Ignored IH and Pyrros, it felt odd and if you want an I'm not scum argument from me in the same tangent he stuck on me last day and was fine with the lynch swinging to me.
I think he did earlier, bit lazy to go clicking through pages right now though.
Evenstar
Triple Jump Unlocked
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- She/Her
InterstellarHobo
Cosmic Vagrant
- Location
- No Fixed Planetary System
Been teaching for the past two hours. I'll also be incommunicado for ~15 minutes soon.
I'll drop my vote before disappearing tho
I'll drop my vote before disappearing tho
InterstellarHobo
Cosmic Vagrant
- Location
- No Fixed Planetary System
I think I believe DimensionGuy, at least provisionally, since there are very plausible arguments this isn't MYLO. (Will argue why this supports in 15 mins.)
I think the scum team is 1K + PW.
I think 1K is the roleblocker, and would be entirely for a lynch there, except the 1K roleblocker logic works equally on me for others.
So,
[X] Lynch PyrrosWarrior
I think the scum team is 1K + PW.
I think 1K is the roleblocker, and would be entirely for a lynch there, except the 1K roleblocker logic works equally on me for others.
So,
[X] Lynch PyrrosWarrior
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Okay numbers:
17 Players:
If 5 single faction scum, game must have disorganized scum as otherwise, things are basically over-
12 v 5, Day 1 Mislynch Successful Night Kill, 10-5 Day 2 Mislynch Successful Night Kill, 8-5 Day 3, if Mislynch and Successful Night Kill Day 4 begins 6-5 LYLO, rest of game minus a killed stopped. This is technically workable in the 3 mislynch allowance build paradigm. Though is still pretty unfair outside of an unorganized scum, because without it that vote advantage is fairly hard to overcome. However, the lynching of their own unawares does gain the consolation prize of lynching scum credit. This does make sense within the fiction with that being the entire purpose of the veil, to confuse enemies (and why I and others assumed that the invaders would be town and the citizens would be scum)
If 5 Scum with two factions, game is designed with a minor scum faction (2 strong) that has the win condition of joining the neighborhood, with a 3 strong classical scum faction that is after just winning on numbers alone, they have 1 kill, a roleblocker, and 1 something else. In such a design, the earliest the game could end is, 12v3v2 D1, 10v3v2 D2, 8v3v2 D3, 6v3v2 D4, 4v3v2 D5... with a non-town majority but with a potentially already lost brotherhood or a half scum that still is trying to get their win condition and just delays the game. That is 4 mislynches which honestly is quite a lot for scum to try and achieve especially since they have 2 non-town they don't want to kill.
If 4 Scum with one faction, scum could be disorganized but it has less mistakes it can get away with. Best case line for this build: 13v4 D1 MsLy+NK, 11v4 D2 MsLy+NK, 9v4 D3 MsLy+NK, 7v4 D4 MsLy+NK, 5v4 D5 LYLO. Thats also kinda harsh, but its possible. This wouldn't work without scum being aware in my opinion too much room for mistakes to occur.
I guess the two faction 5 scum thing could in theory work if the Brotherhood successfully infiltrates the neighborhood leads into a second kill or even a massacre that eliminates the whole neighborhood but that second thing is super swingy (I'd assume normal mafia scum would be allowed in the neighborhood and would die with the whole neighborhood in a massacre design. But that is only to actually LESSEN the swingyness)
17 Players:
If 5 single faction scum, game must have disorganized scum as otherwise, things are basically over-
12 v 5, Day 1 Mislynch Successful Night Kill, 10-5 Day 2 Mislynch Successful Night Kill, 8-5 Day 3, if Mislynch and Successful Night Kill Day 4 begins 6-5 LYLO, rest of game minus a killed stopped. This is technically workable in the 3 mislynch allowance build paradigm. Though is still pretty unfair outside of an unorganized scum, because without it that vote advantage is fairly hard to overcome. However, the lynching of their own unawares does gain the consolation prize of lynching scum credit. This does make sense within the fiction with that being the entire purpose of the veil, to confuse enemies (and why I and others assumed that the invaders would be town and the citizens would be scum)
If 5 Scum with two factions, game is designed with a minor scum faction (2 strong) that has the win condition of joining the neighborhood, with a 3 strong classical scum faction that is after just winning on numbers alone, they have 1 kill, a roleblocker, and 1 something else. In such a design, the earliest the game could end is, 12v3v2 D1, 10v3v2 D2, 8v3v2 D3, 6v3v2 D4, 4v3v2 D5... with a non-town majority but with a potentially already lost brotherhood or a half scum that still is trying to get their win condition and just delays the game. That is 4 mislynches which honestly is quite a lot for scum to try and achieve especially since they have 2 non-town they don't want to kill.
If 4 Scum with one faction, scum could be disorganized but it has less mistakes it can get away with. Best case line for this build: 13v4 D1 MsLy+NK, 11v4 D2 MsLy+NK, 9v4 D3 MsLy+NK, 7v4 D4 MsLy+NK, 5v4 D5 LYLO. Thats also kinda harsh, but its possible. This wouldn't work without scum being aware in my opinion too much room for mistakes to occur.
I guess the two faction 5 scum thing could in theory work if the Brotherhood successfully infiltrates the neighborhood leads into a second kill or even a massacre that eliminates the whole neighborhood but that second thing is super swingy (I'd assume normal mafia scum would be allowed in the neighborhood and would die with the whole neighborhood in a massacre design. But that is only to actually LESSEN the swingyness)
InterstellarHobo
Cosmic Vagrant
- Location
- No Fixed Planetary System
Fuck, I dunno what I think the setup is.
^ is also convincing. I don't have the experience to evaluate claims of "x is very scum-favor" or similar. I think anyone confidently claiming something that isn't patently wrong is going to be able to convince me.
I'm gonna come back to this and think again.
^ is also convincing. I don't have the experience to evaluate claims of "x is very scum-favor" or similar. I think anyone confidently claiming something that isn't patently wrong is going to be able to convince me.
I'm gonna come back to this and think again.
- Location
- Hell
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I uh, don't really see this? Can you quote or something?