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Even Further Beyond [Complete]

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Alectai said:
Little wonder that it bars the way to becoming an Immortal
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Everything else in your post I agree with, but my sole contribution to this thread has always been pointing out where someone misunderstands something and therefore makes a good argument from a false basis. Although I myself have been wrong.

So far as I can tell, Might does not block Immortal Ascension. It merely doesn't help out ability to do it any. Now, I may be wrong there, I may have missed @Rihaku saying it does, but if I'm not your main argument against the ring is invalid.
 
Alectai said:
Little wonder that it bars the way to becoming an Immortal. To be Immortal is to be True to oneself--even in the face of uncounted tribulation--a theme that's pretty well shared throughout the literature as a whole, after all, one needs not be good or bad to pass Immortal Tribulation, merely to have made suitable preparations and have a firm grasp on their own heart. However, to manifest the Ring of Might here in this final hour? To accept that Truth merely exists to be the midwife of Might and to be cast aside for lacking inherent beauty in itself? It's little wonder that the mysterious path that showed itself when we touched Truth for the first time is forever barred to us for this act.
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I like this a lot.

My take on this isn't that the Ring of Might will prevent us from Immortal Cultivation, but rather won't help us. A Ring of Truth grants insight to the self; a Ring of Might just lets you punch better and cultivate regular style better, neither of which are all that helpful.

It's also possible that making the Ring of Might will have other effects; what does it mean that we "are the master" of fate, and that "to see one's Fate is to be bound by it, but to see all Fates is to bind it in turn"? In a conflict between a Ring of Fate and a god of Fate, who wins? The Ring binds all fate, but what if something binds the Ring in turn? It would hardly be unprecedented for magic rings of power to have secret masters...

Also just want to reiterate my theory that Immortal Cultivation is when you forge your own Ring of Self and maybe kick off an Age of You.
 
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[X] Rain - Many months ago, a boy who was the Nameless Scion of Yong considered the construction a weapon for his bodyguard, a girl with eyes of blue whose sword-strokes fell like rain. Victim to indolence, it was never begun, nothing more than an idle daydream. The boy became a man, the dream became a memory, the memory became an ideal, and the ideal became a sword.
-[X] Go Even Further Beyond [10 BPs] - A smith puts down his hammer at the conclusion of his greatest work because he knows he will never again attain the heights he once reached. This option will permanently sunder the Grand Diagram, Forge of the Nameless One, and prevent its erasure or occupation by any other Diagram. Nor will Nameless' Artifice ever again be able to produce another weapon, or even a blade made in jest. Neither Truth nor All Paths can overcome this deficit, for he who wanders All Paths must be free to sacrifice permanently, and some sacrifices are irrevocably True.
[X] Annihilation

My appreciation of Suizhen and her bits with Nameless is more important to me than cool vampires or rings of power.
 
[X] Rain - Many months ago, a boy who was the Nameless Scion of Yong considered the construction a weapon for his bodyguard, a girl with eyes of blue whose sword-strokes fell like rain. Victim to indolence, it was never begun, nothing more than an idle daydream. The boy became a man, the dream became a memory, the memory became an ideal, and the ideal became a sword.
-[X] Go Even Further Beyond [10 BPs] - A smith puts down his hammer at the conclusion of his greatest work because he knows he will never again attain the heights he once reached. This option will permanently sunder the Grand Diagram, Forge of the Nameless One, and prevent its erasure or occupation by any other Diagram. Nor will Nameless' Artifice ever again be able to produce another weapon, or even a blade made in jest. Neither Truth nor All Paths can overcome this deficit, for he who wanders All Paths must be free to sacrifice permanently, and some sacrifices are irrevocably True.
[X] Annihilation
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Aabcehmu on Jul 31, 2019 at 7:50 PM, finished with 490 posts and 68 votes.
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[X] Rain - Many months ago, a boy who was the Nameless Scion of Yong considered the construction a weapon for his bodyguard, a girl with eyes of blue whose sword-strokes fell like rain. Victim to indolence, it was never begun, nothing more than an idle daydream. The boy became a man, the dream became a memory, the memory became an ideal, and the ideal became a sword.
-[X] Go Even Further Beyond [10 BPs] - A smith puts down his hammer at the conclusion of his greatest work because he knows he will never again attain the heights he once reached. This option will permanently sunder the Grand Diagram, Forge of the Nameless One, and prevent its erasure or occupation by any other Diagram. Nor will Nameless' Artifice ever again be able to produce another weapon, or even a blade made in jest. Neither Truth nor All Paths can overcome this deficit, for he who wanders All Paths must be free to sacrifice permanently, and some sacrifices are irrevocably True.
[X] Annihilation

The Suizhen route.
My heuristic? It avoids turning people around us into douchebags or obedient vampires. Also ultimate Suizhen loyalty.
My ape heart tingles.

Edit:
[X] Tyranshal's Distillation [Blood, Battle]
-[X] Go Even Further Beyond [10 BPs]
Because I love bullshit synergies too much.
 
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PurposefulZephyr said:
[X] Rain - Many months ago, a boy who was the Nameless Scion of Yong considered the construction a weapon for his bodyguard, a girl with eyes of blue whose sword-strokes fell like rain. Victim to indolence, it was never begun, nothing more than an idle daydream. The boy became a man, the dream became a memory, the memory became an ideal, and the ideal became a sword.
-[X] Go Even Further Beyond [10 BPs] - A smith puts down his hammer at the conclusion of his greatest work because he knows he will never again attain the heights he once reached. This option will permanently sunder the Grand Diagram, Forge of the Nameless One, and prevent its erasure or occupation by any other Diagram. Nor will Nameless' Artifice ever again be able to produce another weapon, or even a blade made in jest. Neither Truth nor All Paths can overcome this deficit, for he who wanders All Paths must be free to sacrifice permanently, and some sacrifices are irrevocably True.
[X] Annihilation

The Suizhen route.
My heuristic? It avoids turning people around us into douchebags or obedient vampires. Also ultimate Suizhen loyalty.
My ape heart tingles.

Edit:
[X] Tyranshal's Distillation [Blood, Battle]
-[X] Go Even Further Beyond [10 BPs]
Because I love bullshit synergies too much.
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I'm not totally sure that the vote counter likes votes with blocks separated by text, and I don't know if Rihaku's letting us vote approval this round, so you might want to pick one of these to vote for and remove the Xs from the other.
 
[X] Rain
--[X] Go Further Beyond [3 BPs]
[X] Annihilate.

I still want to save BPs to try and use them for an insane Immortal Ascension.
 
Rihaku said:
The timing of such is that it would be in Nameless' favor, assuming the end of the current Age causes the Ring to disappear from his finger.
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Wouldn't Crush simply end the Great Game?

It would be pretty funny if we duplicated the Great Game as a Reality Effect, tied the Fates to the end of the age and then proceeded to end it.
 
I'm going to chime in with a vote for

[X] Tyranshal's Distillation [Blood, Battle]
-[X] Go Even Further Beyond [10 BPs]

because I should probably actually vote, but I do have a question before trying to provide my reasoning (the answer to which might change my vote): @Rihaku, would the vampire-ification from EFB Distillation actually create that much essence for Necromancer purposes (and this allow us to actually do the previously-mentioned infinite power-up by jumping straight from our current actually-technically-stage-7ish to actually-really-stage-15, meaning we suddenly gain an altogether absurd amount of power) or not? If not, about how much would "create vampire/eat vampire/repeat" gain us each time? Would it be notably faster than just eating the Overgrowth? Would it get increasingly fast as we grow (thus making each stage take a roughly similar amount of time and devoured life-force)?

Of course, if that's too much effort, no need to answer all of it, but I would at least like some idea for how much easier it would make growing in power, if we disregard Tribulation and just wanted to grow in stages as fast as possible.
 
[X] Rain - Many months ago, a boy who was the Nameless Scion of Yong considered the construction a weapon for his bodyguard, a girl with eyes of blue whose sword-strokes fell like rain. Victim to indolence, it was never begun, nothing more than an idle daydream. The boy became a man, the dream became a memory, the memory became an ideal, and the ideal became a sword.
-[X] Go Even Further Beyond [10 BPs] - A smith puts down his hammer at the conclusion of his greatest work because he knows he will never again attain the heights he once reached. This option will permanently sunder the Grand Diagram, Forge of the Nameless One, and prevent its erasure or occupation by any other Diagram. Nor will Nameless' Artifice ever again be able to produce another weapon, or even a blade made in jest. Neither Truth nor All Paths can overcome this deficit, for he who wanders All Paths must be free to sacrifice permanently, and some sacrifices are irrevocably True.
[X] Annihilation
 
I hope for the ring of Might here.


Power can help us brute force the scheme of Fate and Liefang.




@Rihaku


What us power level in scheming of sword maiden? Is Suizhen good enough to protect us form scam?
 
Due to various effortposts, omakes and posted fanworks, you guys are very close to 10 BPs now!

skaro said:
What us power level in scheming of sword maiden? Is Suizhen good enough to protect us form scam?
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Depends on a variety of factors. If she trained she could be as good at scamming as Amouthanos, who is probably better than Liefang without his Reality Effect.
 
I have been wondering, Rihaku, given the closure of the quest. What's the Logos, exactly? What benefits did it provide? What would have been the shape of the artifact?
 
UDwarf said:
...would the vampire-ification from EFB Distillation actually create that much essence for Necromancer purposes (and this allow us to actually do the previously-mentioned infinite power-up by jumping straight from our current actually-technically-stage-7ish to actually-really-stage-15, meaning we suddenly gain an altogether absurd amount of power) or not? If not, about how much would "create vampire/eat vampire/repeat" gain us each time? Would it be notably faster than just eating the Overgrowth? Would it get increasingly fast as we grow (thus making each stage take a roughly similar amount of time and devoured life-force)?

Of course, if that's too much effort, no need to answer all of it, but I would at least like some idea for how much easier it would make growing in power, if we disregard Tribulation and just wanted to grow in stages as fast as possible.
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The problem is that we're currently capped right before triggering Immortal Awakening and can't grow further unless we do something like invent an entirely different Stage, discarding the Path of the Immortal, which would take too much time. So whether it'd work for essence-farming is irrelevant, at least for now.
 
Yeah,I guess as much.


Reality effect of Liefang is real issue here.


Everyone that don't underestimate Liefang should choose the Ring.

We can take stack decked form him and use it ourselves.


I imagine Liefang titanic reality effect of stack decked is "power of friendship" in the manner of "all of our power combine".
 
One could argue there is no need to fight Liefang if you have the Ring of Might - since you're immune to the loss condition, why would you care if the Labyrinth Empire falls? Of course, whether he can truly navigate the chaos to follow in order to build a better society out of ashes is another question altogether...
 
[X] Annihilate.
[X] Rain
-[X] even further beyond

Sorry, but no to the Ring of Might or vampirism.

About the first, actually, dunno how good Rihaku is with Silmarillion ( I assume quite swell )

But you know what name Morgoth had before he fell, right?
Melkor, He Who Arises In Might

Yes, the one, whose "Ring was the whole of Middle-Earth"

I'm sorry, but I'm not ready yet for our actions directly referencing a literal fantasy Satan
Indirect references will have to do for now

And the second is kinda meh
Feels like it has some real potential of starting a new Age where the top guns are vampires
And I'm prejudiced against vampires
Except for the cute ones
Obviously
 
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Rihaku said:
One could argue there is no need to fight Liefang if you have the Ring of Might - since you're immune to the loss condition, why would you care if the Labyrinth Empire falls? Of course, whether he can truly navigate the chaos to follow in order to build a better society out of ashes is another question altogether...
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Desire to save the Empire he was reborn into ought to suffice. Even if it's not his life on the line, Nameless isn't so callous that he'd rather let the world burn than bestir himself to save it. He's spent over a decade and a half living in the Labyrinth, even longer subjectively. The Elves may have better amenities, but he still cares for his Grandfather, who Liefang's in the process of killing... and of course there's Zhengyi, his mother, where the worst case scenario is horrifying. Liefang's means have warped his ends; Zang's Dao was altruistic, if too hastily chosen; how much worse will Nameless' father become in time? Without the support of the Fates buttressing his probability-warping, he may not be capable of delivering the world he's sacrificed so many to build. Even if he does, any victory built on gratuitous mind control could charitably be called pyrrhic.

The Labyrinth Empire may be rotten, but Nameless has more power and options. We can do so much better than Liefang's best. Honestly, after so long sitting back and watching the world fall into chaos across multiple updates, it'd be nice to see the Overlord sally forth to right the ship of state.
 
Rihaku said:
One could argue there is no need to fight Liefang if you have the Ring of Might - since you're immune to the loss condition, why would you care if the Labyrinth Empire falls? Of course, whether he can truly navigate the chaos to follow in order to build a better society out of ashes is another question altogether...
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We cant let our father get scammed by anyone else! Filial piety, etc. So he at least deserves to know he is being a pawn for Fate and that whatever age he is building they plan to rip apart again later.
 
I try to argue for people that fear Lie Fang in "Sin of the father" that rain or blood don't protect us form scam or fate.
We can also argue that Ring of Might made us can reform Empire without fear of lose condition.




Think about it.We can do that "democracy" thing in this world if we have Might for people to respect the result of voting form pleb.




We can throw responsibility back to the people and have our result show to Tyranshal that people truly choose for themselves.


Good or Bad form of governance is not our responsibility anymore.


Vote Might to bring democracy to Labyrint republic formerly empire.
 
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