I have no idea where your "logic" comes from tbh.
Notion of "saving up" is hardly something that needs explaining, I feel.
If we are going to win, we should do so properly. EFBing at this point is just half assing it.
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Even Further Beyond [Complete]
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
If we are going to win, we should do so properly. EFBing at this point is just half assing it.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Might only guarantees victory in a direct confrontation. It doesn't stop our foe from fucking off somewhere we don't know and plotting our demise.
You want Fate buffed Kong out to take our cheat code in accordance with his Dao? That's how you get it.
You want Fate buffed Kong out to take our cheat code in accordance with his Dao? That's how you get it.
Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
Not to say anything about your actual point, but this line out of context is wonderful.
Thank God there is not option where we make ourselves perfectly loyal to one of Heroes for no reason. I'm sure some people would actually vote for it.
Blowing your load prematurely is never a good thing.Not to say anything about your actual point, but this line out of context is wonderful.
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- They
I mean we are going to be removing The Fates from the game in one month. I don't think they have enough time to make a meaningful difference or save themselves, if we go with Might. They are greatly constrained in there actions.
Most importantly, with Might we would no longer need to worry about our lose condition. Which remains our great Vulnerability. I still think that's how we are most likely going to lose, if we don't take any action to remove it soon. *looks sadly at Awl-blade"
At the level Kong is, he might just be able to destroy the world entire trivially and Boom, we are done.
Edit: So, I consider the downsides of Might more than worth it, for that alone.
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Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
All the Titans were capable of that TBH..
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
I think it is unreasonable to say the option Rihaku has said guarantees victory guarantees defeat.
Do we even have to worry about the loss condition if the fates are dead? Seems like it's possible we might not. So Suizhen destroying them all with arrogant ease seems like it would solve our problems.
At this point i honestly think we'll win no matter which option we pick, except that distillation might take longer to get there since there might be an actual fight instead of autowin.
At this point i honestly think we'll win no matter which option we pick, except that distillation might take longer to get there since there might be an actual fight instead of autowin.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Nothing in the writeup guarantees victory, only that we won't lose from an esoteric vector, like our death event.
Funny thing is? Ring of Might only lasts as long as the Age of Might. All they need to do to turn the tables is go around us and end the Age some other way. We'll win a straight fight, but there's nothing innovating them to sit tight in Heaven and wait for us to knock them down. And Kong will instantly be made aware of the Ring of Might through his Eyes.
And we know the Fates aren't above making common cause with foes to solve threatening problems. It's actually easier when Kong will instantly be tempted the first time we use the Ring anywhere.
Funny thing is? Ring of Might only lasts as long as the Age of Might. All they need to do to turn the tables is go around us and end the Age some other way. We'll win a straight fight, but there's nothing innovating them to sit tight in Heaven and wait for us to knock them down. And Kong will instantly be made aware of the Ring of Might through his Eyes.
And we know the Fates aren't above making common cause with foes to solve threatening problems. It's actually easier when Kong will instantly be tempted the first time we use the Ring anywhere.
- Location
- Somewhere on the flat earth
[X] Rain - Many months ago, a boy who was the Nameless Scion of Yong considered the construction a weapon for his bodyguard, a girl with eyes of blue whose sword-strokes fell like rain. Victim to indolence, it was never begun, nothing more than an idle daydream. The boy became a man, the dream became a memory, the memory became an ideal, and the ideal became a sword.
-[X] Go Even Further Beyond [10 BPs] - A smith puts down his hammer at the conclusion of his greatest work because he knows he will never again attain the heights he once reached. This option will permanently sunder the Grand Diagram, Forge of the Nameless One, and prevent its erasure or occupation by any other Diagram. Nor will Nameless' Artifice ever again be able to produce another weapon, or even a blade made in jest. Neither Truth nor All Paths can overcome this deficit, for he who wanders All Paths must be free to sacrifice permanently, and some sacrifices are irrevocably True.
[X] Annihilation
-[X] Go Even Further Beyond [10 BPs] - A smith puts down his hammer at the conclusion of his greatest work because he knows he will never again attain the heights he once reached. This option will permanently sunder the Grand Diagram, Forge of the Nameless One, and prevent its erasure or occupation by any other Diagram. Nor will Nameless' Artifice ever again be able to produce another weapon, or even a blade made in jest. Neither Truth nor All Paths can overcome this deficit, for he who wanders All Paths must be free to sacrifice permanently, and some sacrifices are irrevocably True.
[X] Annihilation
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Rihaku outright says it guarantees victory. Saying otherwise is dishonest.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
That's a philosophical statement, not an Objective Truth.
It's the philosophy that with enough force, all schemes and cheats and lesser powers are without meaning. Technically correct, but the fact it locks our Truth influenced Immortal Ascension and shoves us bodily onto the Titanic path should be telling. Might doesn't respect its master, Truth, or any higher ideals, and will happily betray you for a more suitable holder.
And Kong is quite literally the ultimate distillation of Might.
The fact it's only temporary makes it worse Not better. Since the temptation is persistent, but the power boost is strictly finite, permanent effects are the purview of Grand Diagrams.
We dunk on the fates, but risk Kongmaru using his spatial nonsense to sail in and squish us during the cool down. This is a very real possibility.
Because the last thing we want is a transcendent schemer being corrupted by an ultimate temptation that strips him of his idealism in favor of twisted self gain.
Since he, if anyone, might be able to straight up steal it. After all, he's optimized to exploit the gaps in Might.
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I mean, it's a statement following a few paragraphs talking about the risks of the other choices, and it's immediately preceded by
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We're not getting EFB IA in quest with this plan because that would require us to get 6 BP within one update of the quest (because we'll be doing Heavenly Tribulation Immediately afterwards lest the Fates attack us or trigger Kong). If you want us to do that, I'm assuming you'll be paying for the ~300$ worth of art* needed to get us there.
Choosing this plan forces us to settle for FB IA, in fact since that's the only way we'll be powerful enough to fight the Fates and Kong. The other options at least leave room for EFB IA as a post-game epilogue elements.
*Baenlixnaire's was 50$ and was worth roughly 1 BP.
He sails in, his Space effect is crushed, we punch him and he dies immediately. The possibility is about as real as doomsaying usually is.
Moreover, Might leads to Stage 17.5 Suizhen, who could deal with either the Fates or Kong on our behalf. I'm not voting for the Ring but making arguments against it based on obvious and flimsy strawmen doesn't help your position.
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
...
It's a Battle Diagram. A warm up time that's measurable by human intellects and a duration of an hour or two at best.
When it's not on, we're significantly weaker than Kong, and he's well suited to showing up out of nowhere.
Ring of Might guarantees one of our foes dies. The other gets far more dangerous and aggressive, while our assets become liabilities thanks to the corruption.
It's a Battle Diagram. A warm up time that's measurable by human intellects and a duration of an hour or two at best.
When it's not on, we're significantly weaker than Kong, and he's well suited to showing up out of nowhere.
Ring of Might guarantees one of our foes dies. The other gets far more dangerous and aggressive, while our assets become liabilities thanks to the corruption.
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
If your belief that it'll last only an hour is based on the fact that it's a Battle Diagram, you should find something else.
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I always guess that fate effect of stack decked is fate create openning for Lie Fang to scam us.
If he don't has Fate effect stack decked then Lie Fang need to do it the hard way.
Rain or Blood is good but not protect us form fate effect.
I am somewhat don't trust Shuizen to protect us form Lie Fang attack vector.I remember that you are the one who worried that Life fang can trigger many way to end us.
Ring of Might put all of that to rest.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
I really, sincerely doubt that a cheat so absurd that it requires an EFB at all to learn comes with a permanent duration.
Also, Suzhen half a stage behind us sounds great... Except she's a good enough fighter to overcome a half stage gap while Nameless is a garbage fighter, and the corruption can even penetrate absolute effects, as it's an explicit power of the Ring of Might and thus benefits from the rest of it.
You want to get an Elf artisan forging the actual Ring of Might? Thus stripping it from us. This is how.
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It's pretty clearly a mechanically standard, though very good, Power type EFB with drawbacks that suit its status. It gives +3 Stages and some extras. So did the Form of Vehemence. The fact that it has such a massive downside and that it was derived from the Logos and the Truth is what makes the extras so powerful.
Meanwhile, Tyranshal's Distillation is also a Battle. Do you think we'll have to refresh that one repeatedly?
Putting aside the other problems with this*:
okay.jpg
*We can teleport. We react faster than her due to Quickening. We can just send her away on her mission before we summon the Ring. I'm sure there's more I haven't thought of.
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[X] Tyranshal's Distillation [Blood, Battle]
-[X] Go Even Further Beyond [10 BPs]
-[X] Go Even Further Beyond [10 BPs]
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The meaningful consequences are that The Nameless Yong rules as an unassailable God-Tyrant, hiding away from most of his friends in fear that his Ring will corrupt them. Or just stop using the Ring entirely and risk being found wanting by some hitherto unknown threat, in addition to the diminishment that such would represent.
On a tangentially related note:
You're right, it's the Diagram's last laugh.
As such:
[X] High Hand of the Norn [Fate, Battle]
-[X] Go Even Further Beyond [10 BPs]
[X] Negotiation
After all, I'm a loyal servant of the Diagram Schools.
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Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
10 BP of blood and sweat of the thread, plus basically Nameless in charge of the world are not meaningful consequences and costs? If Nameless wasn't tied down to Aurelia I would be concerned he might destroy it by accident or amoral exploitation. The final vote option of the thread in basically 'thematics of winning' is 'instantly winning'?
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