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Fear Cuts Deeper Than Swords: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder Quest

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"And lastly, you get an Unicorn!"
"Oh man, sweet!"
"Oh look, it has arrived"
"... Is that a goat?"
"Please, as if I'd give my champion something like that. It's a magical goat."
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
"And lastly, you get an Unicorn!"
"Oh man, sweet!"
"Oh look, it has arrived"
"... Is that a goat?"
"Please, as if I'd give my champion something like that. It's a magical goat."
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Yeah, aren't Planetosi unicorns just a species of shaggy goat with a horn?

Not very Paladiny to me.
 
As a point of order, if we do go the ever-awesome ultimate mercy route, we can synergize that high charisma with the Noble scion, Enlightened scion feat route I mentioned earlier for an effective +6 initiative and free Intimidate or bluff attempt at the start of every fight. We could even throw on Intimidating Prowess if we get our strength t something decent (not a 14 :p) for some really nasty intimidation.

Additionally, we could take the Steadfast Personality feat if you're worried about Hold person etc. and double dip cha to will saves
 
Goldfish un-liked the write-up just because of the pony. How petty is that :V

Anyway, a build!

[x] Plan TNE
-[x] STR 14 DEX 8 CON 14 INT 12 WIS 8 CHA 18+2
-[x] "Paladin of Dawn" archetype.
-[x] Flaws: Pride of Arms, Chivalrous Courtesy – d20PFSRD
-[x] Feats: Battle Blessing, Power Attack, Step Up, Scion of War
-[x] Traits: Reactionary, Focused Mind
-[x] Skill ranks (2 class + 1 Int + 1 Human + 1 Favored Class): +1 in Diplomacy, Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (History) (background bonus), Knowledge (Religion), Ride, Perform (String) (background bonus), Sense Motive


@Goldfish the temptation of not going for the trifecta of Mounted feats was great, I will tell you.

Battle Blessing is non-negotiable for me, Power Attack we gotta get now as our next combat feat will only be at 9th, barring shenanigans (like Wishing for a feat or a divine boon or such). We get Greater Mercy on 3rd, Extra Lay on Hands on 5th, and by 6th we will have precisely 10 Lay on Hands (3 from levels, 5 from Charisma, 2 from the feat), so we pick up Ultimate Mercy at 7th.

At 9th, who knows? Improved Critical, Lunge, the world is our oyster, as long as it doesn't have many pre-reqs and doesn't need Dex, Int or Wis :V

Step Up and Scion of War I'm not dead-certain on. While I like Furious Focus on low levels, PF power attack doesn't grant as big a malus as 3.5, only up to what, -6 at 20th? I think Furious Focus on anything not an NPC (which desperately needs every edge to hit and hurt PCs) is something of a false economy, especially without 3.5 PA like we have on our Shocktroopers in the Legion.

Step Up is just plain good, either for cheeky shits wielding reach weapons or mages.

Scion of War is good for negating our negative Dex, and goes well with Reactionary (which I think is something he'd have gotten beaten into his head by his isntructors, being a naturally slower fellow). Focused Mind fits his personality as quiet and studious a lot.

Pride of Arms is very fitting for someone trained in the Vale, and a noble besides, and so does Cold-Blooded for a notherner.

And for gear, I'm thinking a Breastplate, quality protection for day-to-day use, a set of fullplate he got as a gift from Lord Horton, a falchion he picked up in a fit of fancy while touring Gulltown's markets, a composite (+2) shortbow that's just neat- fun while practicing archery, great for hunting on horse-back and in the bush, and good for self-defense too, a kuhkri he has a hold-out weapon on the small of the back (like Bronn), a Lance because he is great on horseback, and a plain longsword and heavy wooden shield combo, the shield being useful while mounted and when wielding the longsword. A heavy warhorse with a military saddle close the ensemble, besides miscelanous stuff a rich young knight would have on his saddlebags, which I won't bother to track.

Obviously he doesn't carry all of this on his person, but I figure it's a reasonable spread of stuff for someone of his stature and position to have. Falchion for main weapon (to diversify a little from the usual greatswords, and hey, his strenght is merely above average, so a nimbler weapon makes sense), a lance and shield because he is a damn knight, a holdout weapon because he isn't dumb and neither is Horton's Master at Arms, the bow because, again, very versatile tool, and the sword in case he has need of a shield while on foot, and I doubt his father sent him south without at least a good, if plain sword at his side.
 
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It might be better if he has a normal horse that he then breeds with a Skagos Unicorn, then blessing of the Old Gods awakens it's magic.... That way it looks more like a traditional Unicorn but retains the Murder Goat's Omnivore/Predatory traits for battle and hunting..... Hell if you go for Old Gods Blessings you could make it a bit like Ixion from the Final Fantasy series.... Holy Lightning natured. The Storm God is technically one of the Old Gods after all just like the Drowned God is sometimes classed as.

I think it would be cool though if we make Domeric more into riding, not necessarily traits but as aspects of his upbringing and interests.

It would be great if he started gathering a Menagerie at the Dreadfort. Like at first maybe just Horses, such as Ryswell Horses and Reach Horses maybe even Dornish expies of Andalusian/Arabian Horses with elements of dressage techniques to learn for improved agility in mounted combat.

Then his interest could widen to Slightly more Exotic Mounts, fisrst Skagos Unicorns and Horse/Unicorn Hybrids, then Zorses/Zebras from Essos, then Camels and Llamas then Elephants, Dwarf Elephants from Essos with Two Trunked Yi Ti Elephants/Oliphaunts and Mammoths maybe Snow Bears from North of the Wall.

Then the Magical Mounts, like Awakened Unicorns, Pegasi, Gryphons, Hippogriffs, Manticores, Wyverns etc....
 
We get three Orisons - cantrips that don't run out, and three first level spells.

I'm thinking Light, Stabilize and Detect Magic for Orisons, and Bless, Stunning Barrier and CLW for first level spells (when we get Lay on Hands, we substitute CLW for Stunning Barrier or something), who Sun Metal, while weak, is sort of pretty good for demonstrating we do, in fact, have magic, and we can't underestimate even 1d4 damage at lv 1. We have like 10 HP after all.

Due Battle Blessing, casting buffs mid-combat is actually perfectly valid. Really want to upgrade Sun Metal to Flame of Faith.

Here's a nifty list I've found on the webs for the enterprising 3.P paladin:
1st level
  • Bless Weapon (3.5 PHB/PF CRB): makes your weapon good-aligned, allows confirming all crits, and in the case of Pathfinder, it also grants the equivalent of ghost touch against evil creatures.
  • Deafening Clang (3.5 SpC): swift-action, adds a die of sonic damage to all attacks made during your turn, plus deafens. It's great on a full attack. Sort of a mini-smite, if you think about it.
  • Divine Favor (3.5 PHB/PF CRB): an increasing luck-based bonus to attack and damage rolls, which stacks with other bonuses you might get
  • Divine Sacrifice (3.5 PrC): take damage, get a huge boost to damage (a return ratio on average of 5:3 in terms of damage dealt/damage taken), and lasts for a few rounds. Just make sure to have healing available.
  • Lesser Restoration (3.5 PHB/PF CRB): sure, it's a Cleric spell, but you get somewhat better use out of it because 1st level slots are easier to recover (Pearls of Power)
  • Hero's Defiance (PF APG): obviously meant for use with the Pathfinder Paladin. You get to use one Lay on Hands as you fall unconscious, which means a ton of d6's worth of healing plus mercies, as an immediate action. Otherwise known as "not dying because of HP". In 3.5, it can only be used once, and that's it.
  • Knight's Calling (PF APG): basically, you pull an enemy towards you, and if it gets close, you get a free AoO. It's an enchantment spell, so Mind Blank ruins it. But, it's an early spell though.
  • Protection from Evil (3.5 PHB/PF CRB): much better in its 3.5 incarnation, because it blocks mind-affecting abilities, but it's no slouch in either game.
  • Rhino's Rush (3.5 SpC): double damage on a charge. I don't think I have to say more.
  • Shield of Fortification (PF ACG): get the Light Fortification armor quality for a while, as a 1st level spell, for minutes/level.
  • Silverbeard (3.5 SpC): on one hand, it's a +2 to AC, which isn't that great. On the other, it's a sacred bonus to AC gained early and lasts for minutes, which is a decent boost nonetheless.
  • Stunning Barrier (PF ACG): you get a minor boost to AC and saves (deflection and resistance, though, so they won't stack), but you get a nice ability to stun enemies that attack you, and requires a Will save, so chances are it'll work wonderfully against melee targets.
  • Sun Metal (PF UC): it's 1d4 fire damage, but accessible while it still works. It has a lot of fiddly bits, and 3.5 has a MUCH better incarnation, but as a 2nd level spell
  • Tactical Acumen (PF UC): a way to boost bonuses from flanking, high ground, cover, etc. It starts as a measly +1, but improves to a +4, which is pretty solid.


2nd level
  • Angelskin (3.5 SpC): sure, it's minor, but DR 5/evil is hard to beat. Pretty decent early on.
  • Checkmate's Light (3.5 SpC): like Bless Weapon, but against chaotic creatures, and your allies get a minor bonus against fear effects. Kinda nifty.
  • Conduit of Life (3.5 CC): while PF Paladins get to heal themselves as a swift action with Lay on Hands, 3.5 Paladins get...the ability to heal themselves a bit less each time they channel positive energy (turn undead, lay on hands, divine feats...ooh, that last one is nice!) Of course, if you steal it for Pathfinder, you get that using LoH as a swift action just got better, and if you can channel positive energy to heal everyone, you...do that as well. Hmm... Oh, and if you get healed by a spell, you can discharge the spell for a larger burst of healing, but who cares?
  • Corruption Resistance (PF APG): like Resist Energy, but for alignment-based attacks. Resist Energy is great, so this spell is great as well.
  • Divine Protection (3.5 SpC): +1 morale bonus to AC and saves is never a bad thing, though a Cleric also gets this spell
  • Energized Shield (3.5 SpC): sure, it's quirky, because it's a minor Resist Energy effect (limited to resist 10 to one element), but if you get a way to shield bash (say, the Agile Shield Fighter feat from 3.5's Player's Handbook II), it's a cool boost to damage. Still - quirky.
  • Flame of Faith (3.5 SpC): remember what I said about PF's Sun Metal spell, which had a better incarnation in 3.5? Well, compare 1d4 fire damage to the Flaming Burst weapon quality. However, by the time you get this, many enemies get fire resistance, so...yeah...
  • Holy Javelin (PF HA): this is a spell I didn't realize they got, and it's pretty nifty. It works ONLY against Evil creatures (which is the alignment you'll usually face), it deals 1d6 damage every turn, and imposes penalties, and it's a ranged touch attack, and it has no saving throw. Sure, it lasts only for a handful of rounds (about 2 rounds in 3.5, about 4 in Pathfinder), but it's pretty solid nonetheless.
  • Ironskin (PF MC): it's Barkskin, but ridiculously buffed (+4 enh. bonus to natural armor at start, +7 at the end), plus you can discharge it to ignore a critical hit or sneak attack. It's personal only, but it's one huge boost to AC nonetheless.
  • Litany of Righteousness (PF UC): in short - what Rhino's Rush would love to be. If you have a good aura (you do, of course), you deal double damage for 1 round. Also, any ally with an Aura of Good (good-aligned Cleric, another Paladin, a good-aligned Inquisitor if you play PF), so it could be a potential buff to allies as well
  • Mark of Doom (3.5 PHBII): a fun but quirky little spell. It deals retributive damage each time the opponent makes an offensive action (attack, cast a spell/use an SLA, make an AoE, etc.) Sure, it's a measly 1d6, but that stacks up pretty quick. Better yet - it has no saving throw, no SR, and has a nice range. Also a Cleric spell, but who cares when you get Battle Blessing so as to NOT lose your turn?
  • Paladin's Sacrifice (PF APG): basically, a supercharged Shield Other useful if you HAVE to save someone, no questions asked. You take full damage for that ally, plus any effects it suffered.
  • Resist Energy (3.5 PHB/PF CRB): an old mainstay, it grants up to 30 points of resistance to an energy type, which can mean the difference between life and death in a battle.
  • Righteous Vigor (PF APG): damn useful spell. Each time you hit an ally with a melee attack, you get a +1 bonus to attack rolls and temporary hit points that happen to stack (up to 20). That means you build a buffer AND also happen to make your attacks more accurate. Sure, the effect resets once you whiff once, but it gets to stack up pretty quickly.
  • Shield Other (3.5 PHB/PF CRB): one of my favorite spells, because it's "tank and forget" to an extent. Sure, your ally has to heal nonetheless, but you reduce its chances to die from HP damage, which is what your squishy ally probably needs the most. And, when you need to heal, your Cleric has all the more reasons to use an AoE healing spell. Or just...you know, forget about it. PF Clerics can channel energy to heal at an area, PF Paladins can self-heal pretty easily, and 3.5 Crusaders can spank and AoE heal later on.
  • Shield of Warding (3.5 SpC): as long as you carry a shield, you get a decent sacred bonus to AC and Reflex saves. It stacks up potentially to +5 (less if you're a 3.5 Pally), which is pretty swell
  • Weapon of Awe (PF APG): the damage is kinda minor, but it stacks with a lot of stuff. It's the chance to shaken (or worsen a fear effect) with a crit that makes it so nice. Of course, it loses its luster later on when just about every single enemy gets immunity to fear effects.


3rd level
  • Axiomatic/Holy Storm (3.5 SpC): in essence, an AoE damage spell that affects only chaotic/evil creatures, deals decent DoT, and also makes ranged attacks harder to land. Oh, and chaotic/evil outsiders take double damage from the spell (also, chaotic outsiders may randomly get hit with 5d6 damage, just because)
  • Angelic Aspect (PF CoP): what Visage of the Deity would like to be. See addendum for details; also, the Paladin can't get Visage of the Deity, so there's that.
  • Deadly Juggernaut (PF UC): a disgusting little spell. Basically, each time you kill someone, you get a bonus to stuff as if you had increased your Strength by 2, plus stackable DR. Lasts minutes/level, as well. Again, disgusting little spell. Luck bonus, so doesn't stack with Prayer or Divine Favor.
  • Find the Gap (3.5 SpC): the first attack you make during the round becomes a touch attack, for rounds/level. That first attack just WON'T FAIL, period.
  • Greater Magic Weapon (3.5 PHB/PF CRB): when you need your weapon to hit harder. There's a distinction between the two - in 3.5, you can never get higher than +3, whereas in PF you don't get the benefits from having the weapon innately be +3 or higher. Otherwise, solid spell nonetheless.
  • Greater Shield of Fortificaion (PF ACG): as Shield of Fortification, but 50% reduction. Not half bad.
  • Greater Stunning Barrier (PF ACG): as Stunning Barrier, except it lasts longer (at least as long as your caster level worth of stunning attempts), and the bonuses are untyped, so they stack with everything. Pretty much a spell you won't ever be forgetting to prepare.
  • Holy Whisper (PF APG): lasts only for 1 round, but it's a solid "get out of a jam" spell - it grants buffs to allies for 1 round, and evil enemies get sickened (or worse, if they're outsiders). The Will save kills it, but it's not half bad.
  • Magic Circle against Chaos/Evil (3.5 PHB/PF CRB): Protection from Evil's bigger brother. Enough said.
  • Marks of Forbiddance (PF APG): when you absolutely MUST protect your healer or caster, you cast this, and they can't attack each other. Which is great when the caster uses AoE spells, or the healer just needs to move forth and heal or buff at its leisure. Allows a Will save, tho.
  • Prayer (3.5 PHB/PF CRB): this spell is a little gem that most people miss. It's a minor luck bonus to all allies, but what few people remember is that it ALSO works as a debuff to enemies, no save, no SR, and it works on saves AND skill checks. So - every single effect that requires a saving throw? Easier to land. Of course, it's a Cleric spell, but by the level you get this, Clerics get to cast better and shinier spells, so might as well help your friend out with this.
  • Undead Bane Weapon (3.5 SpC): so that you can kill undead faster.
  • Wrathful Mantle (PF APG): a spell that works if an ally doesn't have a Cloak of Resistance with a higher bonus. Also, you can discharge the spell for a minor burst of Force damage.


4th level
  • Archon's Trumpet (PF CoP): it allows a Fort save, but it's a paralysis effect that affects even non-evil creatures.
  • Bestow Grace of the Champion (PF UM): make a good ally a pseudo-Paladin for a few rounds. It's a really powerful spell (particularly if you're playing a PF Pally), but I don't like it because it cheapens the class itself.
  • Blessing of the Righteous (3.5 PHBII): your allies' weapons get to deal holy damage. Might not seem like much, except it stacks with the Holy weapon quality. Clerics can cast it, tho.
  • Bloodsworn Retribution (PF Dwarves of Golarion): a quirky spell, but if you make the right oath, you can get a solid bonus on a lot of stuff (as long as that stuff gets you one step closer to your oath, of course)
  • Break Enchantment (3.5 PHB/PF CRB): yeah, it's also a Cleric spell, and a Wizard spell, and whatnot, but you can use it on a scroll for good effect. Don't forget the power of having spells on your spell list to use as scrolls with little to no difficulty.
  • Burst of Glory (PF APG): can be cast if you go unconscious, as an immediate action - but, you get to heal your allies, damage your enemies, and cast Prayer as well. Pretty nifty - Righteous Aura is stronger, but riskier.
  • Crusader's Edge (PF ISM): for when you wanna kill evil outsiders faster. Plus a nausea effect on a critical hit.
  • Death Ward (3.5 PHB/PF CRB): in 3.5, this spell effectively negates the entire school of Necromancy. In PF...it got nerfed (you're no longer outright immune to death, just highly resistant to it).
  • Dispel Chaos/Evil: get a bunch of bonuses, negate a spell cast on yourself...it's a Swiss Army spell of sorts. Nifty.
  • Draconic Might (3.5 SpC): you get a ton of benefits, such as a huge enhancement bonus to Strength, Constitution and Charisma, increases to natural armor, and some immunities.
  • Eaglesoul (3.5 ISM): you get a ton of benefits (notice a trend), but the most notable is a long-lasting boost to initiative checks. Then you spend it to go Ranger on an evil creature, except it's what Favored Enemy would dream to be.
  • Favor of the Martyr (3.5 SpC): even MORE benefits, including immunity to non-lethal damage. Just what you get immunity against? Well, against charms, compulsions, daze, exhaustion, fatigue, nausea, pain effects, sickness, stagger or stun, plus the effect of Diehard feat for free. Oh, and Endurance as well. For minutes/level.
  • Greater Angelic Aspect (PF CoP): as Angelic Aspect, but sickeningly good. See appendix for an explanation.
  • Guardian of Faith (PF ACG): take Protection from Evil, add the benefit of Shield of Faith to it, and allow it to switch to whoever needs it the most. This is the spell in a nutshell.
  • Holy Sword (3.5 PHB/PF CRB): get any weapon to be +5, holy, and grant a Magic Circle against Evil effect as well. It supersedes any other spell you have, but when you're with a wimpy longsword and not your Holy Avenger, might as well use it.
  • Lawful Sword (3.5 SpC): as Holy Sword, but axiomatic instead of holy, and MC against Chaos instead of Evil.
  • Litany of Vengeance (PF UC): each time the target gets hit, it takes 5 points of damage. Lasts for 1 round and costs a swift action, but it's pretty solid.
  • Resounding Blow (PF APG): the uber-version of Deafening Clang. Better sonic damage, lasts for longer, stagger on a smite, stun and deafen on a crit, and can be granted to an ally. Also, it's innately a swift action.
  • Righteous Aura (3.5 SpC): you get a sacred bonus to Charisma while it works, but the idea is that, if they take you down, you go out in a blaze of...oh, dammit, that's a PF spell! Well, this one heals everyone, deals a ton of damage to enemies...and then you get pulverized. Have fun!
  • Sacred Haven (3.5 SpC): another Swiss Army spell. You grant a stacking boost to AC (sacred bonus), the benefit of Uncanny Dodge, you know the status of all your allies, and you can use Lay on Hands on a distance. That last one is even better for PF Paladins, who can heal a ton of damage and use it several times per day.
  • Sacred Nimbus (PF HA): like Fire Shield, but it deals damage only against evil creatures and allows you to dodge evil attacks.
  • Sacrificial Oath (PF APG): take Shield Other, remove the minor bonuses to AC and saves, and instead make it work like Paladin's Sacrifice. This is that kind of spell, and it's just insanely good, because it implies the enemy is affected by nothing. PF Paladins get it good, while 3.5 Paladins just slap Favor of the Martyr and forget about just anything they have to face. And Death Ward.
  • Seed of Life (3.5 CC): fast healing to an ally for a handful of rounds, with the ability to discharge for a burst heal.
 
TheOmnimercurial said:
It might be better if he has a normal horse that he then breeds with a Skagos Unicorn, then blessing of the Old Gods awakens it's magic.... That way it looks more like a traditional Unicorn but retains the Murder Goat's Omnivore/Predatory traits for battle and hunting.....
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The Unicorn is lv 5 only, and we don't know who our patron is. I will add a disclaimer that it may turn out to be a grumpy magical goat, tho :V


Anyway, yeah, making him a Mount Enthusiast is pretty cool on my book, given this:
"Domeric. A quiet boy, but most accomplished. He served four years as Lady Dustin's page, and three in the Vale as a squire to Lord Redfort. He played the high harp, read histories, and rode like the wind. Horses … the boy was mad for horses, Lady Dustin will tell you. Not even Lord Rickard's daughter could outrace him, and that one was half a horse herself. Redfort said he showed great promise in the lists. A great jouster must be a great horseman first.[3]"​

I'm putting in the rank in Ride, and we got History for free. As it's a class skill, it sits at a respectable bonus. I do wish we got a background point into Nobility as well, even if it isn't a class skill at least he'd be trained in it.
 
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TotallyNotEvil said:
I'm putting in the rank in Ride, and we got History for free. As it's a class skill, it sits at a respectable bonus. I do wish we got a background point into Nobility as well, even if it isn't a class skill at least he'd be trained in it.
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Hmm... tell you what, someone make a little vignette/omake/etc about Domeric's life as a squire, and I'll gladly give one free rank for Nobility too.
 
Zioneer said:
Hmm... tell you what, someone make a little vignette/omake/etc about Domeric's life as a squire, and I'll gladly give one free rank for Nobility too.
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...please don't go further than this single instance with "Free stuff for omakes".

However much it may encourage player participation, it directly breaks the confines of the system used to play, and, more often than not, drowns the quest in tons of less-than-stellar omakes written but to get a bonus to a given action.
:confused:

[X] Plan TNE
 
egoo said:
...please don't go further than this single instance with "Free stuff for omakes".

However much it may encourage player participation, it directly breaks the confines of the system used to play, and, more often than not, drowns the quest in tons of less-than-stellar omakes written but to get a bonus to a given action.
:confused:
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This will be a one-time thing. I won't award more points for omakes again, I just felt that the comment about Domeric (who after all, is a major Northern Lord's son) needing a point in Knowledge: Nobility was a good one, but I didn't want to just give a point, as therein lies the same problem as omake spam; if I just give free points for a decent argument, isn't that functionally the same as giving it because of an omake?

Thus I'm doing a one-time omake boost, solely for the sake of helping characterize Domeric further, and to give him a good reason why he has that free point.
 
Seems like people dont really want to play paladin. What with the hombrew and casting. Might as well make a marshal or somethig and lwad a few cohorts.
 
Acolyte said:
Seems like people dont really want to play paladin. What with the hombrew and casting. Might as well make a marshal or somethig and lwad a few cohorts.
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To be fair, I don't think that's the case "I want to play Paladin, only not a paladin", and more of a "I want to play this character! Oh, it's a paladin... well, let's change it up a bit?", really.
 
egoo said:
To be fair, I don't think that's the case "I want to play Paladin, only not a paladin", and more of a "I want to play this character! Oh, it's a paladin... well, let's change it up a bit?", really.
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Yeah better articulation of my point. Sure the character is cool and i see the appeal. But it should feel like a paladin not another prc and homebrew fest that is is Aswah.
 
Acolyte said:
Yeah better articulation of my point. Sure the character is cool and i see the appeal. But it should feel like a paladin not another prc and homebrew fest that is is Aswah.
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Ah, I was arguing the exact opposite here :V
It seems to me, that many peopel are drawn to the character, and not the class archetype, so having chosen this one, they are also fine-tuning the class into something more mechanically playable afterwards.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I personally don't see the problem here.
Overly-rigid system is but a guaranteed path to downfall for a quest.
 
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