Cacophonous Interlude is NOT active
(the QMPC does NOT hear what you write right now)
Next story update : Sometime in July would be nice
Next vote closing : TBD
Progress toward next update : 3,146 words
Code:
Anything I post that's not in text blocks or in spoilers
may be understood to be said by the QMPC, with the
exception of the Collaboration Post
(see Collaboration Post for details on itself)
Code:
Players do not need to use code blocks or spoilers
outside of cacophonous interludes
If you use code blocks, please limit yourself to 32 lines
and your lines to 57 characters, so that people on mobile
can read them without scrolling within the code block
Code:
This is not meant to be Plagiarism Quest.
You're not discouraged from using outside reference
material or quoting other sources. When you do, please
cite your sources in spoilers or a code box.
Code:
I have added some players who contributed a fair amount
the last two times as thread collaborators who can update
the collaboration post. If you'd like to update the
collaboration post too, contact me by PM and we'll talk
about it.
Check the Collaboration Post and read the latest story post in the Threadmarks to get a rough idea of where things are at.
If you're not already involved in the game, portions of either of these may be difficult to follow. But you can skip to the line that says "B R E A K" in the latest threadmarked story post and skim from there to get an idea of what's going on.
If there's no corresponding Closing The Vote post in the Informational threadmarks for the latest story post in (normal?) Threadmarks, then the game is in a cacophonous interlude and the QMPC will hear what you post, unless you do so with spoilers or code boxes. The NOTICES portion at the top of this post should also tell you if the game is in a cacophonous interlude.
So you can engage with other players, make suggestions, ask questions, and propose plans and you can compose a message to the QMPC all whether or not the game is in a cacophonous interlude. And once it is, you can vote and/or send a message to the QMPC by creating a post in the thread.
If you want to vote, simply do so as you would in other quests on this board. You may look at other players' votes to see how yours should be formatted. And you may check the tally to see that yours are counted as you intend them.
If you want to send a message to the QMPC, though, keep in mind that they are a creature of their time. They may not understand what you mean if you don't take the time to make it clear. This game rewards and demands work from its players. When a player wants to introduce a concept or tool or technology to the QMPC, that player will probably need to expend effort to explain it carefully, and take into consideration the limits of the QMPC's understanding of the world.
I think this is similar enough to Graeber's 'interpretive labor' that we can use the term colloquially to describe what is being asked of players. Put yourself in the mind of the QMPC and ask yourself how such a person can be made to understand what you want to tell them.
The QMPC has different values than we do. They have different assumptions about the world and objects and forces within it. Their goals may not align directly with number-go-up or color-get-big gaming agendas. But they want something, and will listen most attentively to players that tell them how to get more of or closer to what they want.
The Quest Master posts story updates that have 3 parts.
Quest Master Player Character responses to player posts made during the last cacophonous interlude
An update by the QMPC following a break of varying length but usually some number of years, covering what the character believes is worth mentioning
Requests by the QMPC for direction on a number of issues, which the players will provide in the form of votes
Following each story update, players posts are audible to the QMPC until voting is closed.
This is the cacophonous interlude.
Players may convey any information they can represent in text.
No images, sounds, or hyperlinks will get through (this is my limitation, not a limitation of the game, so please do not try to transcend it with clever protocol tricks).
Players may use spoilers or code blocks to communicate with each other without doing so in ways the QMPC can hear.
When votes are tallied, the QM collects player posts so that it may be known what the QMPC heard.
Votes are tallied in the conventional fashion. So only votes in the most recent post by each player are counted. [X] marks what the player is voting. And only identical write-ins accumulate.
Some votes are querying the players for their preference, in which case the only suboptimal answer is that which does not accurately reflect the preference of the players who nonetheless chose it (I don't think these kinds of misunderstandings can be helped).
Other votes are intended as puzzles where there is a choice the QM believes would best meet what they believe to be the goals of the players.
However, in these sorts of votes the QM has in mind a choice that would provide the players with what the QM thinks they most want, but which is not listed in the available votes.
In this way, clever write-ins are encouraged.
QM reads player posts, researches their suggestions, checks notes for precedent, determines what the QMPC thinks they already know on the topic, what they're right or wrong about, how likely they are to engage with the topic, how likely the QMPC's followers are to follow-through in the matter, and finally what the result is going to be later on.
QM composes QMPC's responses to player posts made during the cacophonous interlude and updates their notes.
When narrative benefits from uncertainty and chance, QM devises tests for QMPC or other characters and makes those tests using die rolls on a post made just for that purpose.
Skill or attribute tests will be made with a largely undocumented homebrew modification of the Burning Wheel system, mangled to suit the format of this game. (The Burning Wheelis a good system and I encourage you to check it out.)
Tests may be a contest between two characters or against a static target with tiered results.
The rules being used and followed will be described in each post in which tests are made by die rolls.
Normal mortals count 7s and better as successes.
Heroic characters and characters who are otherwise innately magical count 6s and better as successes.
Demigod characters and characters who otherwise possess some spark of divinity count 5s and better as successes.
New gods and characters who have otherwise stolen the power of Old Gods count 4s and better as successes.
Old Gods count 3s and better as successes.
Sorcery and other magic skills lower the threshold of success by 1 to a minimum of 3 only when they are the skill being tested, not when they provide a bonus to other skills. Players may note that Old Gods' threshold of success does not improve when they use magic.
Bonus dice provided by Kahl's Warhorses and any incendiary devices more complicated than a burning arrow reroll 9s & 10s and keeps successes. These same bonus dice cancels successes on 1s & 2s, rerolls those, and additional 1s & 2s cancel additional successes. More 1s, 2, 9, or 10s mean more rerolling and more successes or cancelations, but only in the manner of the original die. That is, a 1 or 2 that comes up when a 9 on a bonus die is rerolled don't cancel successes or lead to further rerolling.
Research project results are determined by percentile dice with results falling into 5 tiers.
Uh oh: something has gone horribly wrong
Nuh uh: failure, but the boring kind
Huh: partial success
Uh huh: full success
Whoa: superior special case success
When players expect a test to be coming up -- for example if they vote for an invasion or to send a diplomat to manipulate a foreign leader -- they can improve the odds of the test turning out the way they want by providing the QMPC with advice specific to that matter. If the advice is not mistaken or outright bad, there will be at least a chance it will help. That is, decent advice adds dice.
QM composes the QMPC's post-break update, player vote questions, and player vote options.
GOTO 1
The QMPC is intended to be the only character the players will interact with in this game. (It's kind of possible that the players could maneuver the QMPC to surrender control of the Astute Cacophony to another character, but unlikely.)
The QMPC is a small, evil woman who knows magic and has not died, despite looking like she probably should have at some point. She goes by the name Bianca the Undying. Her early life took place in the Paleolithic, in which she has said that she traveled around quite a bit and came to understand the malleable nature of populations of people and animals and even the land itself. At some point she was trapped underground, to her displeasure. She remained trapped for a very long time.
When Bianca got out, she found her way to a community of eight tribes living pastoral and agrarian lifestyles in the local Copper Age. She made these people hers and they relied on her for magically enriching their fields so that they did not need to slash, burn, and move around a bit, unlike their neighbors. Bianca and her followers formalized their relationships into the Eight Ways Pact. Later, another tribe joined Bianca's followers bringing small horses and the Bronze Age and their pact was updated with a ninth directive.
Bianca has an agenda that requires her to have more power than she does right now. She believes that achieving divinity will get her that power.
Your Divine Majesty, would you prefer to be called "Great Undying One", as your people say? According to my customs "Your Divine Majesty", when used, shows much more respect, but I shall obey your wish.
First of all, I apologize Your Divine Majesty. It's sometimes difficult for me to pronounce some sounds properly. Obviously, proper alphabet should include symbols for all short sounds that are common in your language, so that all words can be expressed properly. But you can understand this easily enough, concerns about proper power over people are more important.
Your Divine Majesty, powerful ruler can change laws as he or she wishes, even when people know that laws were changed. Even mortal kings of the faraway cities can do that! People should respect when something much more powerful and greater than them decides to change laws, this means that there are very good and wise reasons for that. When there are changes in the world, laws need to change. Merely being engraved does not mean that rules cannot be replaced should you see fit.
You shouldn't claim that laws and customs are eternal. You should claim the power to change laws and make people respect said power because there is much more power and wisdom in you than in mortal people. Because there are good reasons.
Evidently, you need to explain this to your people, if this is not obvious. They should fear you enough to respect you regardless, and be grateful enough for your protection to respect your decisions and changes. Fear and respect, fear and love both.
Make them fear you and love you properly, with both punishments of offenders and safety for good servants of your will.
Power of many mortal kings over their cities, where writing exist, is great.
Your people, on the other hand, can start a war without your orders. Sounds like a herd of wild cats, not properly obedient mortal servants.
Cities are sources of great wealth and great numbers of mortals that could serve you, and you wouldn't be able to have proper cities and power without writing, not in the long term. You simply couldn't have 30 000 people in a city, supplied with grain from many villages, without writing about wheat production, trade, written and sometimes changed laws, etc. Nor you will be able to fight against such opponents in the future without adopting their methods and improving on these methods.
But I can, Your Divine Majesty, teach you also other things, if you are so skeptical about writing for now. I can teach you how to grow more food for your people, and more food means more warriors, more power.
A secret of the black soil, also known as the "terra preta". You can create fertile, good for growing plants soil by adding a mixture of charcoal, bones, broken pottery, compost, and manure to the otherwise relatively infertile soil. To create compost, you need a heap of wet organic matter (also called green waste), such as leaves, grass, and food scraps, and wait for the materials to break down after a period of months. You need to overturn compost pile from time to time. After a year or so there shouldn't be any too dangerous to health things in the waste, things are broken to simpler stuff good for plants. Human waste must not be used directly to help plants but is safe to use after sufficient composting. Charcoal is very important.
I can share with you also another secret. A secret of sterilization. If you want more people to survive minor wounds, then rags or other things used to stop bleeding, protect a wound or for sewing wound should be first boiled in water, preferably for a long while. Then these things should be used when no longer too hot. This may sound weird, but should truly work so that not all but more wounded survive. Useful, given that there may be that stupid war now. There are animals smaller than worms, so small that people cannot see these animals - germs. Germs are bad for wounds, and very hot water kills most of the germs.
There is also a simpler secret of hygiene: when possible, people should wash their hands in clean water before touching wounds and eating, also because of dangers that come from the germs. Maybe a comparison of germs to worms so small that you cannot see them would be better than comparison to animals, though both comparisons are not fully true. Even cold water can wash away some of these creatures.
You fear changes, Your Divine Majesty, but without changes, cities will destroy your people, even if many generations from now. The world will change with you or without you, you need to tame this "Change" beast instead. With proper changes, you could rule over these great settlements yourself.
In regards to greed, this emotion also will be needed to compete with cities and to create wealthy cities. Because cities will slowly start to dominate the next hundreds of years. Cities mean enormous numbers of people, power and wealth. Some people will be jealous, but inequality of wealth between mortals is another thing that you will find as impossible to avoid if you desire true power.
You need to learn more about distant cities, Your Divine Majesty. These cities are distant only now, in the future there will be more cities. The faster we start working on this great issue, the better, because this is the great danger of the next few hundreds of years.
In regards to the recent war, I consider this war as rather idiotic, but we probably should stand together with our people, so that you could show that you care about your mortal servants.
Your Divine Majesty, thank you for considering my words.
[X] [Cacophony] liberty90
[X] All the Nine Nations should go to war against the Forest People and Bianca should join them.
[X] Bianca should take up writing because it is a tool for improving the ability to think.
I don't know if you mean to flatter me with regard to my height or size, voice, but I am not in much possession of either. My singers call me Leader Bianca when they speak to me themselves. But their songs and the people call me Goddess Bianca the Undying.
"How many short sounds is a language made from? And which language? All tongues? There are sounds in the tongue used by Lan tribe use which few people of Tash tribe can make properly. And the tongue of the Sleomjash makes sounds no other people of the Nine Nations use, even in some words that they share. Would I not need as many marks as there are different ways to speak?
"People dispute laws when it is to their advantage to do so. One of the best answers to such dispute is to say, 'It has always been so. If what has always been can change, then how can you be sure of the seasons, or of the lands of your family, or of the pacts on which you rely?' It need not be the case that any of these things have always been as they are. The seasons have changed. Landmarks and even whole rivers have moved at times. And pacts are at times broken. But the people do not need to know that, so they do not, and with wisdom and song I lead them to believe in permanence, because it takes the fire out of some arguments.
"Arguments take up so much time. I argued with First Chief Haronno and Chieftess Utroffa of Naumo for days before I consulted you. Haronno claimed that the raids of the Forest People count as attempts to force the Sleomjash and Eppam to pay tribute, which the Nine Ways Pact forbids. And I think when no one is alive to say differently that is how the story of this war will be remembered, if it is remembered at all.
"Many wish to be the one to give commands to others as though to slaves. Few understand that even slaves only obey because they themselves think and believe that the harvest of obedience is less bitter than the harvest of insolence. Free people follow leaders, not those who give commands with thought only to the harvest they alone reap from others' obedience. And leaders do not stand at the back of the lines of war and shout. You can only lead from the front, otherwise you are driving as like oxen.
"I could seek out any one person of the Nine Nations, run them down, set upon them, and send their spirit to the underworld by throttling or striking with fists or furious shaking. No one person, no family could stop me if I wished any person dead. And when one person has stirred up sufficient trouble I have done this very thing. Only Risl of Zouchaud escaped me with his wives and husbands and children in boats. And because they had forewarned him and assisted him and broke the boats of Zouchaud that remained I slew every member of his family that remained behind.
"While that story was remembered, the people did fear me more greatly. But in their fear they spoke out against me more often, only not where they believed my singers could hear them. And so while the escape of Risl and the death of the family he left behind was remembered, more of my singers were struck down or vanished in the night.
"The people do love me. But if I do not leave certain fields unblessed at certain times, they do not remember why they should love me. The people do fear me. But if I do not every so often slay a thief who seeks to take from my tribute hoard or some other oath breaker, then they do not remember why they should fear me. And in the midst of all their love and fear, still people and especially chieftains will question me, with argue with me, and will consider each time whether perhaps that time might be the right time to defy me. They might question with respect and they might argue with flattery and guile. But they only need to craft their questions and arguments more carefully. And the people of the Nine Nations are clever in this regard.
"If it is not so for mortal kings in cities, I do not know how that could be. Surely among their lessers there are those who do not take their words as they take their own. If slaves question their masters, how much less would any free person question their leader?
"They are not like a herd of wildcats. The people are like people. Perhaps the ways of free people are unfamiliar to the voices? They fight among themselves much less than a gathering of wildcats would, I think.
"Again, yes. Some value of your graven numbers is clear. Almost I am persuaded to follow at least that trail.
"I am very interested in learning of means by which fertility of soil may be increased. It is only by my magics that the people of the Nine Nations are able to reuse the same fields year after year. How much of each part is needed to make your 'black soil?' When you say to make instruments of leaves, grasses, and food waste, do you mean harps or flutes? And how is that done? How often must the pile be turned? Otherwise, it sounds like the rotten instruments, wood ash, bones, pot shards, and livestock leavings should accumulate for a year, then nothing more should be added for a year, then what results should be spread across fields. Is that so?
"On the use of rags, then, when cloth has worn away it should be first boiled, then stored away. Then, if it is to be used to bind wounds then more of the wounded will no waste away? Is this so? Or will they grow back their limbs?
"How can we know these very small animals if they cannot be seen? Can they be touched or heard?
"I do not fear change, voice. I fear very little other than confinement. But I would not cast away the good that is here now for disorder, discord, and unfruitful undertakings.
"The mortals themselves dislike disparity of fortune between them, as often as they themselves have the lesser share. When disparity persists they are prone to plot, scheme, and steal. How do you propose to change their own hearts?
"How can a city dominate the people of the Nine Nations? How can people who live in endless festival bring themselves to take up spears and go to war? Why would they leave their plenty and how would they have time for anything other than maintaining the festival and defending themselves?
"You are right, voice who has not given their name, that the people will love and fear me more when they know I stand beside them in war and see what happens to our enemies. And I thank you for all that you have said, as much as I am not helped by your strange claims that free people would act as people think slaves ought to."
Perhaps I am indeed confused o ancient one, after all, I am but a voice which bears no name!
But indeed it is more wholesome for a name to be attached to a voice, for that purpose you may call me Sheep, or the voice that is confused if you so like o undying one.
It bodes well that your command of the spirits and the elements is so great, but it is strange that time has so escaped your grasp.
Does not the unceasing river have pretenders and petty lords upon it currents? Have none tried to swim in it? Are there none amongst the divines and the spirits who hold a claim to echos of its might?
But I digress, allow me to inquire as to the old gods.
They where made of the primordial stuff of creation, of the void that is all and naught?
Where they born with time or in time? Or do they preceed it? What manner of being is a divine? Is it shackled to passion or mantle in absolutes, or is it but a mortal mind given godhood?
And what of the world ? All things are matter and all things have distinct properties, but do they have a substance? That is, a soul or spirit of sort or a quality that is not of the material realm?
And lastly, amongst the spirits and the elements, I presume that there are hierarchies of station, power and significance. That there exists spirits so meek and meagre that any with a pretense to skill can sway them, and that there exists spirits of such might and pride that lay at the cusp of divinity.
If such is the case, then surely the spirits and the elements must have their own fueds and rivalries.
Whould a spirit of flame not relish at the thought of unleashing its hunger upon a forest? Would a lord of the winds not cackle with glee at the mayhem his gusts would dance to? Would the Kings of the earth that sleeps and the courts of regrowth and decay not delight at woodland turned ash and cinder, from which a new forest would spring all the mightier?
Would a master of the rains and hail not delight at the havoc his involvement will bring in such chaos?
I say if that be the case, then let the tribes gather in full, let then witness your might as you cajole, command or bargain with the forces of nature to do your bidding.
And then let the tribes be let loose upon what remains of the forest people. Let that be a tale worthy of song, a monument to your might unrivalled.
If that be not the case, then I say let them gather in full and accompany them in their war.
Let the blood shed and stalled build new and greater oaths, let obligations of honour flourish across the nine, and let them see what bloodsoaked glory and bounty they can reap when striking as a tide with purpose.
"Very well, Sheep. You have named yourself in the manner of the Old Gods, though I have not heard of an Old God by that name. Still, I may call you 'voice Sheep,' so that all know I am not speaking with an Old God.
"There are spirits which move in rivers. And I have thrown rivers about by great and costly magics when it suited me. And, yes, the people who go about in boats do swim also.
"There has always been River and Sky and Clay. They made grasses and reeds and clouds for each other as gifts. But they knew they were incomplete, so they made the first Old Gods: Crocodile, Bear, and Leopard. The Old Gods also knew they were incomplete, but they called it hunger so they made Fish, Deer, and Hare. Then Fish, Deer, and Hare made Sea, Forest, and the Underworld, respectively, to hide away in. Finally, Crocodile, Bear, and Leopard made Rorqual, Wolf, and Hawk each to answer their prey's creations.
"Most of the New Gods were born as mortals. Some were created by artifice of Bear, or by mortal artifice worked on the flesh of an Old God.
"The breath of life is not the spirit which goes on after death. The two cannot coexist. While a creature lives, it has the breath of life. When one dies in whom the breath of life had been, a spirit is made in the Underworld like the shape of a hand pressed into clay. Neither gods nor the Undying breathe. I know not what became of the other Undying, but gods have died and there are not spirits of gods.
"No spirit, no matter how mighty, is like a god. They are all limited in the scope of their actions in ways that gods and people and even animals are not. They do fight with each other, at times. If the spirits are of nearly equal strength it is best for people to leave the area if there is not among them one who can becalm both spirits.
"There are... no spirits of flame. When a flame dies there is no spirit made to answer it in the Underworld. Neither are their spirits of winds nor stones or rain. All spirits are answers to the deaths of living creatures.
"Still, there are spirits which can carry fire. These are the spirits of fire-tenders of long, long ago. They are very old and there were more to be found in the time before my captivity than there are now. Those left are strong and not easily compelled. Similarly, there are spirits which cast up dirt or blow wind about or make hail. And I could take the time before next summer to prepare spirits and magics that would ruin the woodlands of the Forest People, instead of leading the warriors of the people into those woodlands unprepared.
"This is doable, voice Sheep. And I thank you for all that you have said."
What might the Nine Nations gain from this war, should they somehow win? I'm seeing alot of risk and loss in such a war, but not much in the way of gains. The Forest People's territory? I think they are difficult to drive out of their lands, very difficult indeed. The costs of such an attempt would be immense if you want a chance of winning, and even then it's only a chance. It might be a victory you would dearly regret.
Your own assistance is not required for mere raids. The spoils of a few raids would not make up for the time you'd lose on other projects. "Time is wealth", as the saying goes.
That aside, how much do you actually know about the Forest People? Who leads them? What are their beliefs, their customs? Do any of your people speak their language?
[X] The Nine Nations are not required to join in the war against the Forest People and Bianca should not join any war that occurs, so that engagements are limited and losses minimal
[X] [Cacophony] Random Member
"The tribes of Sleomjash and Eppam would gain relief from the raiding of the Forest People. All brave warriors would gain honor and glory. Those that survive will gain a share of the plunder taken. It is unwise to take Forest People as slaves, as the spirits of their dead come for them in a season or two. But there may be other peoples taken as slaves among the Forest People. A standing, live forest set alight is not the best way to prepare fields or pastures. But if the Forest People are driven off then some families of Sleomjash and Eppam would move into the new lands, possibly splitting off or just expanding their existing lands.
"The Forest People were made from the First People by Hare, Wolf, Leopard, and Deer. At times they choose their warleaders by contest of might or song, at others by election, and at times the spirits of their dead appoint warleaders from among them. They live in woodlands, taking game and pulling nuts, roots, mushrooms, and berries as they travel along, ever moving. I don't know what they 'believe,' but I don't know what I would know if I knew what they 'believe.' It is an odd question.
"There are people among the Sleomjash, the Eppam, and the Tash who speak the tongue of the Forest People here. It is not the tongue of all Forest People. There are others on islands the Naumo visit to raid or trade with who speak differently. And the Forest People I met before my confinement spoke different tongues in different places as do all people.
[X] [Cacophony] Ciber
[X] All the Nine Nations should go to war against the Forest People and Bianca should join them.
[X] Bianca should take up writing because it is a tool for improving the ability to think.
All of you miss entirely the point of writing. Or at least the reason that Bianca should learn and promote it's spread. Yes it can be use to spread knowledge to the far corners of
the earth and the annals of time, but that is not the reason we need Bianca and her people to learn the ways of the written word.
She must learn this skill because the process of transforming ideas into symbols is the first step on the path of strengthening the mind. Through the detailed observation of
numerous peoples over many years, perhaps more than currently populate the Nine Tribes, we have discovered some measure of the workings of the mind. I tell you now that the mind of mortals arise from the complex interactions of the smallest components that make up the brain. Now the whole of the brain participates in some aspect thought or bodily control, with the more primitive and vital functions such as the beating of the heart or ability to recognize faces being near the stem of the brain. But we (or at least I) say that the mind is housed within the outermost layer of the brain, concentrated near the forehead. This is the portion most associated with active thinking, self control, and the ability to understand others intentions.
I have left something out. My explanation is lacking the most obvious, most important aspect of the human mind. Storytelling. Pay attention to the mortals and I'm sure
you've seen, the live their lives within a story of their own making. Constantly they are creating stories "why does my toe hurt, oh I must have kicked that rock", "Why am I looking at that bush, did I see something move?", "Why am I angry at that man? He looked at me wrong". You see, the rest of the brain is always taking actions without informing the mind, and the mind is always making up stories about why it did things that were never under its control in the first place. Look, you will find people constantly taking actions and then coming up with explanations for why they did it only after the fact.
This must happen, this process where much of the work of noticing threats, controlling muscles, and regulating the body must take place without the minds supervision
because the mind is limited. The mind is specialized in solving problems and making plans and determining when to override the rest of the brain. Consider swimming, the mind must constantly overrule the brains desire to breath. Or consider confronting a predator, the mind has created a plan to defeat the beast, but must override the brains desire to fight or flee in order to lure it into a trap.
Part of the process which makes the mind so good at problem solving the division of ideas into discrete pieces before comparing, combining, or splitting them. We call this
process "Chunking". Through our work we have determined that most people may deal with between five and seven chunks at a time. Those who have put great effort into thinking about and investigating the nature of the world have at times managed ten. One simple exercise for understanding chunking is to visualize the movement of a point, then another, moving differently. As you add points, you will eventually notice that, beyond your control, some points start moving as though connected. This is chunking in action. Your mind consolidates two small ideas of movement into one slightly more complex method of movement.
Becoming a better thinker is not about increasing your available "Chunks" as much as using what you have to more effect. Through practice you can compress several related
ideas into a single chunk. And finally we return to writing. Each symbol may stand for a sound, and many symbols together may be a word, and idea. And many words together form a sentence. Many sentences a paragraph. Many paragraphs a page. And so on and so forth. The process of reading and writing is the process of combining and splitting chunks, and it is excellent practice. And eventually your mind "solves" writing and passes the solution onto your brain, and it gets to the point where you can read and understand faster that were someone to speak the word to you.
The greatest way to get better at solving problems, is to try and solve some problems.
"So writing makes people more clever. It is truly of greater use than I had considered. But how much time does it take one to master writing to that end? How much paint on cloth? How many signs hammered into metal or stone? Even though writing might make people more clever, in addition to the other benefits, the time and goods to reach that end may still be an expense better put to another end.
"I do thank you, voice, for describing the benefits of writing. I would hear more of the uses of writing, and more of how it is done."
I shall speak of language, writing, and graven records.
Your chief objection to the notion of graven records is that it may be used to question you, due to apparent inconsistency between current and previous pronouncements. The people are as children, lacking understanding. They seek to make sense of the world. When a father allows his child to frolic in a certain area sees a wolf and thereafter forbids the child from venturing into the area for a certain time, is the child not curious, seeking to make sense of the world? If the father explains to the child the sighting of the wolf, does not the child understand better the world?
So long as your decisions and their alterations do not stem from caprice or whim, writing is a potent means of conveying wisdom and knowledge.
Similarly, if your previous pronouncements are questioned due to inconsistency, do the people truly discern inconsistency, or merely your judgments which have changed due to changing circumstances? Consider that for every question raised regarding your edicts and judgments, many others ask the same question silently in their hearts. Thus the seeds of doubt are sown.
Rather explain in this graven record the reasoning behind your decisions, and the change in circumstances which has prompted such. The people may recall that you have altered your edicts, but here too the shortness of memory arises: they may not recall clearly the circumstances which led to the initial judgment. This recorded reasoning can quell their doubts and questions. If the people can consult records of your reasoning, they need not bother you with questions. Thus can you convey your wisdom to your people. Additionally, if they may understand your previous judgments, they can come to trust your current judgments. Why do your people trust the wisdom of their elders? Because they have earned that trust through previous actions and deeds. You who are older than all have a far greater history of deeds and judgments to support your wisdom. But the shortness of human memory does not allow your people to truly appreciate the scope of your experience. Maintaining records in this way allows them to do so.
The stone laws of which you speak will also allow your people to settle disputes among themselves or guide a headman in making a decision; they may consult not only the currently living wise men and elders, but also those of generations before. You moderate the disputes of your people, but you certainly do not moderate all disputes, as most fall beneath your notice, surely. As your people grow more prosperous and more populous, the number of disputes brought before you will be of weightier things, leaving unanswered disputes which you previously had time to render judgment on. The stone laws allow you to render wisdom to the people as methods to resolve their disputes in the manner you yourself would render judgment. It is a means of making your will known even when you or your singers are absent. Nor are the stone laws eternal; merely being engraved does not mean that they cannot be overturned and replaced should you see fit.
You are by your own admission not infallible. You admit that you may be deceived. You have instantly and correctly seen the utility of graven numbers. These can indeed be used to record harvests and herds and tribute. Suppose then that one of your subjects has cheated you of your just tribute. He tells you that he has presented the whole of what is owed, but he has in secret removed one part in ten from it. Your representative may be deceived; the cheat may convince him that he has misremembered the amount owed. With written records of herds, harvests, and tribute, your representative may discern the deception. Another example: Merchants quarrel over the agreed-upon price for their wares. They are not well-known to each other, and so record the numbers they have agreed on. They further inscribe the nature of the items and their promise of exchange, and each mark with a personal sign. This creates a record of their agreed transaction, so that one cannot later contest the matter without contradicting the written record.
Do not see written records of your edicts as a cage to bind you and enable others to demonstrate apparent contradictions. See it instead as a teaching opportunity, to enable your people to learn and grow, to share your wisdom with them, so long as your decisions make sense and are not capricious. For one of your subjects, it may be like a cage, but do not forget your position of power; the questions asked of you might topple a lesser ruler, but to you, they are ultimately an annoyance. Further, consider that even if matters are written, very few among the population will be able to dedicate the time to learn to read and write them.
You ask us for advice. We perceive the benefits of writing far outweigh its negatives. Such is our advice.
I would also briefly clarify the notion of the alphabet previously discussed. The sounds associated with this alphabet are names assigned to particular characters. These characters are but one of many systems usable to record words and deeds, and is merely one known to us that can be used for our current mode of speech. Truly, constructing your own system of writing would be more advantageous, rather than attempting to convey one to you. Select a number of easily-distinguished signs which may be easily engraved. Assign to each a sound. In some cases, similar sounds may be associated with the same character, allowing context to determine which is correct.
"Hrmf. There was a time when I more easily enjoyed exercise of caprice and whim, Burning One. But, yes, it is true that I am already deprived of such pleasures. Certain freedoms are enjoyed only by the meek, after all.
"And I think that meekness might be a portion of where the cacophony is erring in terms of writing. Perhaps you know only meek people. The meek may be driven toward a goal. The meek will readily comply with demands made by the willful. And the meek will not bring themselves to raise question when they are told what they think might not be true or might not be best for them.
"I am not concerned with the meek. They do not enter my presence. They do not become chieftains or the sort of elders who are listened to. They do not bring disputes before me. They go on living their lives in the meek ways the meek always have.
"My concern is with the bold among the free people, with the daring, the brave, the brash. My concern is with people who have many seasons of practice standing up for what they want against others who would deny it to them. These are the people who stand up to me. These are the people who argue the law. These are the people who will attempt to hold me to their own interpretation of the evidence of past events, written or not.
"And though you have not brought up cities, Burning One, I nonetheless will assert that the rulers of distant cities are also confronted by the bold, the brave, and the willful.
"I can foresee already that this will be much like the sheep brought by the Tribe of Lan from far away: a mess of errors, misadventure, bloodshed, and wasted time. But. But the sheep have been very useful once the manner of their keeping was worked out.
"I will speak with my wisest singers and we will make writing. Though it is more for the arguments of greater cleverness presented by another voice who did not give their name, thank you no less, Burning One, for your words."
You are very polite Bianca, thank you for that. Manners maketh man, or woman in this case.
Now firstly I'd like to ask, for the sake of thoroughness, what your current agricultural methods are, to clarify in case you do not know that word, I mean how your people cultivate plants and raise livestock, as well as what metals you are aware of, what you know of alloys, that is mixing metals to produce stronger metals or ones with different properties, as well as common building materials for houses, common weaponry and armour and other such details. This should help us help you by informing us what we need to inform you of and what you already know and thus we do not need to inform you of, as well as any corrections to incorrect information or presumptions you currently hold. Best to get a good idea of current resources in detail before we make any erroneous assumptions.
In addition the an and ca in your name would be spelt a-n, as an is a a sound followed by an n sound, and c-a, as ca is a c sound followed by an a sound, however some alphabets have additional symbols for such sounds, the one presented to you should not be assumed to be the best one, merely a well known and spread one.
However it may not be wise, if you choose to construct an alphabet, to have a symbol for every sound as, while it seems logical, such an alphabet would get very complicated very quickly, as such it would be best to use mixed symbols as demonstrated above.
Unless you want the language to be overly complicated to prevent easy access by the average citizen?
Oh and you may call me Rom, good luck.
"When I came to the Nine Nations they made their fields much as their neighbors do now. When there was a need for new fields, they would cut down all the trees and plants in an area within their lands before the dry season. At the end of the dry season, they would burn all that they had brought down. And when that ground was broken up with plows, it would serve as a fruitful field for some harvests, rarely more than five.
"And for a time I lived among them as they continued to grow their crops that way. But moving around caused conflict between the families of a tribe, and between the tribes as well. I foresaw that the Eight Ways Pact would not last, and sought to bring stability to the people. And so over the course of multiple of their lifetimes, I bargained with spirits, tested magics, and learned the people's ways of farming, which were not known prior to my confinement.
"Now I visit all the fields of the people, each one once every so many years. And I make them fruitful. I visit the winter pastures as well and less often. When there is a great upwelling of mice or locust or some other peril, the people send their best to plead that I come to their fields to solve it. There are still times when matters are too far gone when I arrive and some famine occurs.
"Shepards move their herds of cattle and sheep between pastures as the seasons change. Farmers and villagers alike keep goats, pigs, and fowl around their homes. They put ash on their small plots for medicine, flavor, and dyes. They grow wheat and barley and brew beer. They take game and gather nuts and berries from the woods. Some of the seed each year is sown the next.
"The people work silver, gold, copper and bronze. Some means are known by which metals can made more pure. And some copper can be added to bronze for a more plentiful but often weaker bronze. The people acquired all metals are acquired through raiding and trade, except for copper.
"All the people know that it is best to build a house from stone, but not all the people have stone to be quarried. So many houses are build from fired brick. And many who live outside their family home may live in huts of clay.
"The people use axes, spears, and knives for hunting and war and for work as well. At times we obtain long knives of bronze, which are apparently well regarded as weapons in distant places. But they use so much bronze and can be made into three or more axe heads. So they are.
"Warriors desire armor of bronze, but it is not available to all. So they make do with hides and leathers, sometimes boiled, and wood that is carved in thin strips and then set together with pastes.
"And thank you, Rom, for explaining the nature of the dividing of sounds."
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B R E A K
"Aklot of Eppam and First Chief Haronno wasted the last two days of my time competing over who could most graciously grant the other the first lands to be taken in the coming war.
"Before winter, before harvest, I had expected each to be arguing that the battles should be fought from their own lands, so that the first gains would be available to the families of their tribe. But last year was lean in their lands, the winter leaner, and the spring calving leaner still.
"Now, neither wishes to be responsible for provisioning the war parties of all of the people. And each are willing to lose the chance at new lands in order to keep their people as well fed as possible.
"Even with my magics, the Forest People will not be fought without effort. If the war parties of all the people are divided between the two lands, they will be much less effective in each engagement. This is especially true if the Forest People concentrate themselves to meet us.
"The Sleomjash lands are especially well suited to chariots, if the Forest People can be drawn out. The Forest People are even worse attacking or defending against chariots than other horseless warriors, so long as the engagement takes place on open ground.
"Conversely, the Eppam have greater woodcraft, even within the lands of the Forest People. If the battles are fought beyond their lands, the warleaders of the people will be better able to find the places of their choosing and will better known the movements of the enemy.
"Most exhaustingly, the young chieftain of Zouchaud is arguing that the warriors of the people should leave the lands of the Nine Nations and enter those of our neighbor, the Chaussow. He claims that the Chaussow cannot stand against the full might of the warriors of all of the people of the Nine Nations, and so they will offer no real resistance. In this way the warriors can support themselves on foreign lands much sooner and strike the Forest People from a direction they are unlikely to anticipate.
"What course should the warriors of the people take when they go to war with the Forest People?"
[ ] Through Sleomjash lands [ ] Through Eppam lands [ ] Divided between Sleomjash and Eppam lands [ ] Through the lands of the Chaussow, who are not of the Nine Nations [ ] Write in
Code:
Voting will close 2019-03-08 1800 GMT. I'd
like things to move fast for the first week
or more.
[X] Through Eppam lands Argument for [X] Through Eppam lands
We anticipate that your magic would be of more use within the forest, where minor magic could be used to effect greater trickery. Your enhanced physical abilities could allow you to climb and jump from the trees in ambush perhaps.
If you do not go through the Eppam lands then at least stay away from the folly that is the Chaussow. It would not do to unnecessarily anger the neighbors and invite retaliation, especially when their are so many more worthy uses of your time.
Gimme
True Names have meaning and no small measure of power, but a name given and a name taken are of very different natures. It would suit my goals to be gifted a name. But be aware, such could alter the nature of our relations.
This is the Black Cat again, Great Undying One. It was also me when I talked about cities and black soil.
First of all, do not start another war with the Chaussow. One war at a time is enough, and no more enemies are now needed.
And in regards to lesser matters. When I called you "Your Divine Majesty", as is my custom when I want to show great respect, I wanted to appreciate greatness of your mind and experience, not any literal greatness of the body. It's not very important anyway. It may be better to use words closer to your own customs, Great Undying One.
You do not understand cities fully, as can be expected, because differences are great, almost like differences between very ancient hunting and modern farming. Cities are not an endless festival. Cities can exist only when farmers can produce much more food than they need, and thus exchange food for goods of many specialized craftsmen that live in the cities and produce fine goods and wealth their whole lives.
There are also people in the cities that prepare for war their whole lives and do no other work. Their king takes some wealth and food from meek farmers and city craftsmen and gives said wealth to these extremely mighty warriors. The best food. The best bronze armor.
Most people in the cities are very bad at fighting, meek and only good at their excellent craft, but these people who can fight can be extremely dangerous.
People obey their king and changes in laws, at least usually, because they fear his warriors and want to enjoy safe lives. Warriors obey and love their king, at least usually, because they enjoy wealth given to them from the meek.
Sometimes there are weak and stupid kings that are killed and replaced by warriors, of course.
But when a king knows how to keep warriors happy with wealth and meek people content with food and safety, people do not argue with their king.
You kill people personally when people need to be killed. Kings rarely do that. They order warriors to do that, and warriors obey. Kings issue orders, sometimes written orders.
Warriors obey because they know that happy king gives to them wealth. They rarely raid anything, their wealth comes from their service to the king.
And how the king collects some of the wealth from the wealthy meek people? He orders his bureaucrats, people who know how to write and read both words and numbers, to collect needed amounts of wealth. Common people give to bureaucrats because common people fear that if they refuse bureaucrats, their king will send warriors instead.
In regards to the black soil. No, no musical instruments are used. I will try to explain again. You need a pile of rotten waste that is called compost. To create compost, you need a pile of green waste, such as leaves, grass, and food scraps, and wait for the materials to break down after a period of months. You need to overturn this pile once for every seven days, so four times during a month. After a year and only after a year, you mix this rotten pile of waste with charcoal, bones, broken pottery and manure. Then you mix this with soil that you want to make more fertile. Some testing how much is needed for proper quality of your soil would be useful.
Charcoal is not exactly wood ash. Charcoal is wood that looks black from heat, but is not yet burned. Wood that was heated but without transforming into ash yet. Cut some branches and put them in a pot. Put this in a fire. Without air, wood inside shouldn't burn but should create black wood, charcoal. Some testing for the best way to create charcoal would be needed.
You can mix wood ash with soil and compost, but charcoal is better.
In regards to healing, more of the wounded will no waste when you use clean rags to protect their wound from dirty things and to stop bleeding, yes. But it's the best to boil these rags not long before you need to use rags, ideally maybe before the battle. If you store rags too long, germs again will come to inhabit these. Rags simply shouldn't be hot when used, but otherwise, freshly boiled rags are the best, and rags boiled some time before are better than nothing.
Do you know that sewing wounds is possible? But you would need to use a freshly boiled needle and thread, obviously. Then you can sew together a wound, and then said wound should heal better. Sewing wounds is a skill that takes a considerable amount of practice. If you do it incorrectly, people may die, so maybe test this on captured enemies first? Then you could teach some of your wise people how to do that. This should be done when a wound is deep, rags alone cannot then keep wound together properly. Thread needs to be carefully removed after 10 days or so.
And remember, it would also help people with their health to wash their hands before touching wounds and food.
You can also use a secret known as the crop rotation. This way you allow a field to rest and regain good qualities. One field is planted in the autumn with rye or winter wheat, followed by spring oats or barley; the second field with crops such as peas, lentils, or beans; and the third field is left fallow. The three fields are rotated in this manner so that every three years, a field would rest and be fallow.
You can use also simpler rotation, but it's much worse, as too much land is unused, but at least soil can rest and regenerate. Under a simpler two-field rotation, half the land is planted in a year, while the other half lay fallow. Then, in the next year, the two fields are reversed.
Germs are in many places. You cannot observe these creatures by means that you now have, but you can observe that fewer people should die with proper care for wounded and handwashing. Often people are ill because of germs than entered their bodies through wounds, or eating dirty things, or eating rotten things, or through touching ill person too much. Of course, there are also magical and more mysterious causes of illness, but germs cause many though not all diseases.
Dangerous germs also like fresh human waste, so people should defecate away from water used for drinking, cleaning, and washing. You need to bury human waste well away from a water source or add said waste to compost. People should wash hands carefully after working with waste, and use tools for working with waste (to overturn compost pile for example).
It would be also very good for health if people could clean their whole bodies and clothes with clean water from time to time. Do you know about soap? Because soap is also good.
And you can also use willow bark to combat fevers. Boil willow bark, then an ill person should drink said drink when no longer too hot. This can also help old people with a small pain, or with headaches.
People shouldn't always believe in permanence. This is very, very, very bad belief to cultivate, and while this may help you now, long-term this will lead to your defeat. You need to change some things, there is no other way, and people must believe you as so wise, that your changes are for the better. Or fear you. Or fear these warriors that love you. Or be paid in wealth. Or, sometimes, many of these means.
And about graven numbers. Remember to do as I advised you before. Symbols for: zero, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine. Then you can write ten as "one, zero", twenty as "two, zero", fifty-five as "five, five". This may sound slightly weird, especially "zero", but trust me: this method is simple and allows to write any number imaginable with the use of only ten symbols.
Adhoc vote count started by liberty90 on Mar 8, 2019 at 7:48 AM, finished with 39 posts and 9 votes.
[X] The Nine Nations are not required to join in the war against the Forest People and Bianca should not join any war that occurs, so that engagements are limited and losses minimal
[X] [Cacophony] Forty-Second
[X] Through Eppam lands
I greet you once more, Bianca, and apologise for neglecting to introduce myself earlier, when I asked about your traditions and routines. I am known as Forty-Second, though you should know that the number has no relation to any hierarchy or organization within the Cacophony. It is a reference to a matter irrelevant to our discussions with you, which would require lengthy explanations of obscure context. Should you be more curious, know that the number is regarded as a symbol of knowledge, derived from a humorous and obscure legend from a distant land.
Now, on to the matter of advising. It is interesting, to hear your thoughts on cities. It would be incorrect to describe the lives of city-dwellers as an endless festival, as they do work and act as others do, if in a different manner. The existence of a city, a place where many thousands of men and women gather to live and work, with food and supplies transported to them rather than gathered by the city-dwellers, allows for individual workers to specialize. Imagine, if you will, two men with a passion for making arrows. One man is a tribesman. He spends his time hunting for his family, or farming, or raiding the enemies of his tribe. The other man is a city-dweller. As a specialised worker, he will not need to hunt, or farm, or raid, for there are other men who dedicate their lives to these things. Instead, he spends his time crafting arrows, or other tasks of a similar nature. In doing so, he develops great skill in his craft. His creations would likely be of superior make to his tribal counterpart, who dedicates his time to other matters. In addition, this city-dwelling fletcher would be capable of making arrows more swiftly as well, and in the end produce more overall due to devoting more time to the task and spending more time practicing.
It is the same for all careers within the city. Food would be gathered and brought to the city by farmers and hunters within the countryside. Specialised blacksmiths would work metal to make tools, and carpenters would spend their time crafting furniture and other... wooden implements, I suppose. In specialising, the increased output of each worker allows for more resources and tools-which in turn allows for greater numbers of people to live and work in the area. This concentration of skilled workers allows for the construction of great buildings many times the height of a man, with many rooms and floors stacked atop one another. It allows for men to dedicate themselves to developing better tools or means of doing things, which in turn would increase the productivity of farms and labourers within the city, or the creation of better weapons or military tactics over time.
Some men dedicate themselves to art, and can create lifelike representations of worldly scenes out of stone or paint. Some mortal kings use these artists as a means of increasing their reputation and ensuring that knowledge of their deeds lasts after their deaths-imagine, if you will, stone statues of yourself that your people might look upon, that they might recognise you and know to heed your wisdom, even if you hadn't approached their tribe in a generation. I know not of the details of magic, but it is also true that learned individuals could work to pacify spirits and perform other such mystic tasks.
Most importantly, perhaps, this concentration of people allows for a source of warriors. I recall that you once said that the Nine Nations numbered in the thousands. How many of those thousands are warriors? The Cacophony knows of cities, of mighty nations, kingdoms, republics, and empires, capable of fielding armies in the tens of thousands, or even the hundreds of thousands, recruited from cities populated by millions. The human mind cannot even fully grasp or imagine the scope of, for example, two hundred men standing together to charge at their enemies, much tens of thousands or more. Oh! A million, by the way, is a number that represents ten groups of one hundred groups of a thousand. That is to say, one hundred groups of a thousand, ten times over. It does not matter how meek or fierce a warrior is, should he be faced with seemingly unending opponents on the battlefield. Of course, a city of millions shall not likely exist for centuries or even millennia yet, though centuries is more likely, in more populated areas of the world. Perhaps one such empire already does? Our knowledge is somewhat incomplete, though I personally rate it as relatively unlikely. Even then, such a city would only exist as the capital of some incomparably mighty nation.
Perhaps Va of the Lan might know of such things? He is well traveled as you say, and likely has heard rumors from other travelers in distant lands.
We know that the ways of your people are not currently conductive to gathering in cities or waging war on such a scale, and also that it is exceedingly unlikely that any such cities or nations exist and will attack you in the near future. It is our belief, too, that cities and nations such as those I have described will inevitably begin to form. In my estimation, such kingdoms will begin covering the entire world between at most three thousand and at least two hundred years from now. We know that smaller kingdoms and empires do exist even at this time, though you are currently distant from such powers. We know this because others have attempted to summon us, in distant lands, and we learned some small details of their circumstances in the attempts. Your summoning succeeded, of course. The Cacophony does not advise any other master at this time, and I for one shall immediately inform you should the incredibly unlikely circumstances required for such a thing occur.
Let us be away from the topic of summoning, though, and back to the nature of cities and larger kingdoms. These are the reasons why many spirits have attempted to advise you on such things as writing, or numbers. It is impossible to organise or rule such a large number of people, with armies and warriors scattered across the lands required to produce, wood, and animals for feeding and clothing them, without ways to store information, or convey messages and the like. It is certain, that in time some greedy mortal king might look upon the Nine Nations and consider them weak, desiring slaves, glory, or land, should your people not adapt over time to become more populous and have more warriors. Perhaps not now, and perhaps not even for thousands of years, but it will happen given enough time. Considering the fact that you are immortal, well... Should you not find means to consolidate your power, to exert your will over vast lands and many villages and cities through servants and messengers even without your direct presence, the chance of you someday being killed or sealed once more becomes uncomfortably high.
By no means do I suggest that you immediately restructure your society or attempt to create a city as such a thing would likely fail without experience, but rather that you should consider our ideas in how they would work in such a context and not strongly oppose any trends towards such centralization should your people develop them.
Oh, and as for the matter at hand... I believe that knowledge of enemy movements is more important than the advantage of chariots. You are invading the Forest People, after all, not the other way around. Why would they come out to meet you if they would face doom in doing so? In addition, unless the Chaussow have agreed to aid the people beforehand or decided to invade the Forest People themselves, it is certainly foolishness to make a second enemy at this time. Travelling through their lands would allow them to, even if they are too cowed to engage in a direct battle, harass and ambush your warriors from behind and all in all make it much less likely for you to be victorious against the Forest People. They would also likely view you and your people as an enemy in the future, for a few generations at least. As such, my advice is to invade through the Eppam lands, that you might not be surprised by any trickery your opponents might employ.
Someone should introduce her horse riding and stirrup. It seems that she's more interested in war like tribals than those lofty cities so why not indulges in it and transform her nation in to city-sacking horse nomads?
We can settle down into proper civilizations once we're done looting all the shiny stuff.
I'm not a very good writer so thats why I'm not doing it right now
Yeah I think we need to convince her to physically sees an actual city to at least give her an idea of what we're trying to teach her.
But we still need to introduce proper horse riding if we want to become a military superpower. From the time frame and what we have gathered everyone is still stuck with chariots and it wouldn't be several hundreds more year until someone actually tries to ride a horse.
But the people do not need to know that, so they do not, and with wisdom and song I lead them to believe in permanence, because it takes the fire out of some arguments.
Greetings, Great Undying One. You will not have heard my voice before, for I had not chosen to speak before now. But I would like to ask you to consider the usefulness of writing in establishing belief in permanance and tradition. Already with songs and wisdom you persuade your people that things have always been this way, or that way; would it not make it easier to make them believe things have always been so when the truth of your words is backed by truth engraved in stone?
Of course, permanency can be detrimental, if it causes people to be stubborn when they should learn to bend. Change is always necessary. But with the understanding of the past afforded by writing, people can be made to understand why change is necessary, when it is necessary.
Where we come from, there is a book, whose contents have been reproduced for many hundreds of years. It proclaims to contain the words of one of our Gods and his foremost prophet. Many people here believe in the words written in that book, even though there are none alive now who could verify the truth of those words now. People still believe in laws and records that were laid down centuries ago, for they believe in the immutability and permanence of the written word.
Finally, far from it for me to be presumptous, Great Undying One, but I assume that, unless I am mistaken, your memory is not perfect, and that like all beings you forget things with the passage of time.
Memory is a fickle and unreliable thing. We have many wise and learned men, and of these many who have studied in great detail the inner workings of the mind. These wise men have found, among other things, that it is possible to trick men in to remembering they had seen things that they had not witnessed, merely a week after the fact, or to fool them into describing in great detail childhood memories that had never actually occurred.
Writing will help bolster the mind and ward against forgetfulness. It can be consulted to verify or disprove the veracity of memory, and serve as an aid in remembering things that might have otherwise been forgotten. If nothing else, I would suggest to consider taking up the practice yourself.
In regards to the war about to be fought; if your magics can inflict such woe upon the forests, then it stands to reason that the forest people will be temporarily displaced and thus it would be advantageous to fight them as they evacuate the forest.
If not, then a war in the woodlands is better, it would carry risks, but the nine need be tempered in the ways of war.
And now I will speak on matters that my fellow voices have spoken.
You have struck the mark regarding cities. Most cities are maintained precisely because the inhabitants are meek, they fear the powers above and are content with the bread given unto them.
Thus the maintenance of the city is a simple affair, unless logistics, nature, religion or politics dictate otherwise.
But your people are not meek and will not be collared without resistance.
But let me tell you of some cities that whilst urban, still follow the ways of the proud tribe.
Once in a land far away, the tribes of a poor land joined in a pact, and united they conquered and enslaved the mighty empires which once proclaimed themselves as powers absolute.
These tribes where now incredibly rich with loot and slaves, so much so that the poorest amongst them had five slaves and ornaments of gold.
The first chief of the tribes had new cities built then, spread around his massive dominion, and placed between the largest concentrations of the conquered peoples, for the tribes must watch over the conquered, but they cannot taint themselves with meekness by living amongst the meek.
The new cities where built for the tribes, each construct divided into districts.
Each district would have a place dedicated to worship and a place dedicated to commerce. Furthedmore the district would be divided into houses, each massive and having both a well and a kitchen, and each holds three generations of a family in full, with its neighbours housing its kin.
Thus a district is in truth a place where a faction of a tribe is settled, and so the city as a whole houses a tribe or several.
The loot earned in war made sure that all tasks not pertaining to war, song, poetry and trade were performed by slaves. And the maintenance of order and stability was handled by the elders, seniors and chieftains within each house, district and city.
But much honour was had in the olden ways of the nomads, and so the tribes in the city often sent their young to their wild kin, so that they may uphold the olden ways when they return to dwell in the city.
This model of settlement maintains the familiar tribal structure and culture, whilst giving the benifits of urbanisation.
If this interests you oh Undying one, then I can go into further details.
But now unto the matter of writting:
It is true that writting and the consideration thereof can make you more clever, but that is not due to writting itself, but the excersies of the mind in such a fashion.
The same effect is had by song making and poetry, and both can be spread amongst the nine more readily than writting.
Furthermore, music holds a sway over memory far greater than any other. A man of 90 who lost all his mental faculties, will remember a tune he heard when he was but a babe if exposed to it again.
It is why tales in song and verse are remeberd and kept for far longer than those written upon paper or carved into clay, for the excerise of memory strengthens it, whilst relying upon others, be they man or object, to remember weakens it.
And as for permanence, it is the truth espoused that is permanent, not the method by which it was told. The book my fellow spoke of was not written until many years after the fact. And in that time its words where kept in memory and passed along, for those who kept it saw it as the highest truth, and so spared no effort in maintaining it in their minds and hearts.
So long as people belive in the absolute sacricy of a thing, they will remember it, and no single method can claim the cause of this remembrance.
Buy let me tell you of poetry and its rules.
The songs your singers make are doubtlessly arranged in a manner by which it is pleasing to the ear.
But consider laying strict rules on how a song is sung while using an instrument, and thus how it is composed.
This is done by observing how common are different methods of singing are, and then making a strict tradition of such.
Let us assume you end up with 20 methods of singing whilst using a drum, now observe and ask your singers about what topics and themes are most common for each of the twenty.
Now observe how the words are arranged and where the pauses are placed and sounds emphasised, and again make a rule of it.
This will give you a structure of poetry, both complex and encompassing and quite difficult.
Now why would you want such a thing? For one, once it is established, it will create a system that will last you till the end of time
It will also allow for greater complexity of songs and its difficulty will make the poet a man of great prestige and glory. Indeed amongst some people, a poem from a good poet was such that it could start wars amongst kin and end them amongst ancient enemies.
But most importantly, due to it being clearly structured, poetry becomes available to all the people, as all can learn of or observe the structure.
This gives a new avenue of glory, but more importantly, the mental excerises necessary will strengthen both the intellect and the memory.
And a people used to complex thinking and who have a strong memory are a blessing, and can be utilised and depended upon for many great things.
To make it even more accessible for people to learn poetry, observe how the drums are struck in a rhythm as the poem is sung.
The rhyme should broadly resemble the rhythm of the beat, make it a rule that the poetic meters are built to match the instrumental rhythms.
For you see, rhythms come very easily to people and are quite memorable. And so anyone who is familiar with a rhythm, can try his hand to matching words to it, and so poetry becomes much easier to learn.
If what I said is confusing to you o undying one, then I apologise, and will elaborate in greater technical detail in the future if you so seek.
Do your people have knowledge to craft armour of horn and bone? And by what method do they craft their bows and spears? And do they know to let the best amongst their beasts and fowls lay only with the best? And do they practice the keeping of only the seed of the best plants of the crop for to plant once more?
by the way... My explanation of cities and "warriors paid in wealth" feels very infantile, but I see no other way for her to understand. Any suggestions?
Evil? Probably, but we can at least speed up tech progress, perhaps. Whole bronze age mentality is very alien and often evil to us.
I don't think we need cities at this time, though. Need population growth for a city to naturally form. So rather than convince her to make a city, she need to understand what a city is.
Great Undying One, perhaps this comparison should help with the understanding of disease and how it spreads.
Your people make bread and brew beer, and they use yeasts to do these things, yes? Those yeasts are composed of a large number of those tiny living things, which feed upon the grain and water and produce the air that makes bread rise and fresh beer bubble, as well as the liquid that makes a cup of beer taste differently than a cup of hot water in which roasted grain was briefly soaked to flavor it.
Most diseases are caused by similar creatures that feed upon us or our plants or our animals in the same way as yeast feeds upon grain. Cleansing one's self after contacting blood or excrement or other viscera is a way to remove those tiny creatures before they can find a way past our skin, which for most of these creatures might be armor, and begin to feast upon our muscles and organs. This too is why cleansing wounds and sealing them with bandage or with needle and thread is important, as left alone they provide any such creature, even those that might normally never be able to penetrate our skin, with a direct path to our flesh.
Unfortunately, while there are ways to kill such creatures even once they have entered the body, many of them are impossible to create or to use safely with the tools you have. This is why we voices have been so focused on ways to prevent that from happening in the first place, as many of those are within your present abilities. Two ways that appear not to have been mentioned are using honey or alcohol (alcohol is the liquid in beer or wine that gives it a slight burning sensation in the throat and that makes your thoughts fuzzier when you drink it). Honey you would use most effectively by coating the part of a bandage that will touch the wound with it, or by filling in the wound with honey prior to bandaging. Alcohol you would use to wash the wound before bandaging or stitching it; you can also use it to clean your tools and your hands before treating wounds, although I would recommend using water first to remove any visible stains and debris and the alcohol as just a brief rinse to kill the creatures that cause disease, as water is easier to come by.
The alcohol should be purified first, however. The way by which you do this is that you take two pots and place a connection between the lid of one and the side or lid of a second, preferably a smaller pot than the first; the connection should be sealed off from the open air the same way the pots are. The second pot should also be level with or slightly lower than the first pot, and distant enough or separated by enough of a barrier that the fire used to heat the first pot does not substantially heat the second. You then put beer or wine into the first pot and begin to make it hotter until you just start to have liquid appear in the second pot. Keep it at that heat until the second pot is sufficiently filled. You can then do the same thing with the liquid in the second pot to purify it further, and will probably need to in order to get alcohol strong enough for proper wound cleaning. This same method can be used to purify other liquids as well, although in some cases the liquid you want to keep might be the liquid left in the first pot instead, with the second pot having water or some other impurity you wished to remove. You can also use this method simply to produce water that has been purified of salt and dirt, which can be useful for various things; too, the salt and dirt itself might be useful, and this method is a way to extract the salt that we eat from seawater for later use.
Should someone become ill, however, there are a few things that can be done to make it more likely for them to survive their illness. In particular, regularly wiping away their sweat and trying to cool their skin to normal temperatures if they have a fever, and keeping their bedding and clothing clean and dry if at all possible. Providing their bodies with enough water is also important, as is replacing the other things they need that they lose in sweat or other excretions, especially should they have diarrhea; thirst-quenching amounts of a drink made from one part salt and twelve parts honey for every four hundred parts purified water should suffice if adequately mixed, although if the person is capable of eating more substantial food without vomiting then things like bean porridge or yogurt would also be good to have. For someone who has bled heavily, meanwhile, food such as liver and dark green vegetables are ideal to replace what was lost in their blood, along with drinking purified water or other beverages to replace that blood's liquid portion.
Who Spoke
2 Boosts: liberty90
1 Boost: maximillian
1 Boost: Evilness42
0 Boosts: Ciber
0 Boosts: The Sandman
----------------- cutoff -----------------
0 Boosts: Arcus
Sorry, Arcus. I just want to get this out
before the weekend.
This is the Black Cat again, Great Undying One. It was also me when I talked about cities and black soil.
First of all, do not start another war with the Chaussow. One war at a time is enough, and no more enemies are now needed.
And in regards to lesser matters. When I called you "Your Divine Majesty", as is my custom when I want to show great respect, I wanted to appreciate greatness of your mind and experience, not any literal greatness of the body. It's not very important anyway. It may be better to use words closer to your own customs, Great Undying One.
You do not understand cities fully, as can be expected, because differences are great, almost like differences between very ancient hunting and modern farming. Cities are not an endless festival. Cities can exist only when farmers can produce much more food than they need, and thus exchange food for goods of many specialized craftsmen that live in the cities and produce fine goods and wealth their whole lives.
There are also people in the cities that prepare for war their whole lives and do no other work. Their king takes some wealth and food from meek farmers and city craftsmen and gives said wealth to these extremely mighty warriors. The best food. The best bronze armor.
Most people in the cities are very bad at fighting, meek and only good at their excellent craft, but these people who can fight can be extremely dangerous.
People obey their king and changes in laws, at least usually, because they fear his warriors and want to enjoy safe lives. Warriors obey and love their king, at least usually, because they enjoy wealth given to them from the meek.
Sometimes there are weak and stupid kings that are killed and replaced by warriors, of course.
But when a king knows how to keep warriors happy with wealth and meek people content with food and safety, people do not argue with their king.
You kill people personally when people need to be killed. Kings rarely do that. They order warriors to do that, and warriors obey. Kings issue orders, sometimes written orders.
Warriors obey because they know that happy king gives to them wealth. They rarely raid anything, their wealth comes from their service to the king.
And how the king collects some of the wealth from the wealthy meek people? He orders his bureaucrats, people who know how to write and read both words and numbers, to collect needed amounts of wealth. Common people give to bureaucrats because common people fear that if they refuse bureaucrats, their king will send warriors instead.
In regards to the black soil. No, no musical instruments are used. I will try to explain again. You need a pile of rotten waste that is called compost. To create compost, you need a pile of green waste, such as leaves, grass, and food scraps, and wait for the materials to break down after a period of months. You need to overturn this pile once for every seven days, so four times during a month. After a year and only after a year, you mix this rotten pile of waste with charcoal, bones, broken pottery and manure. Then you mix this with soil that you want to make more fertile. Some testing how much is needed for proper quality of your soil would be useful.
Charcoal is not exactly wood ash. Charcoal is wood that looks black from heat, but is not yet burned. Wood that was heated but without transforming into ash yet. Cut some branches and put them in a pot. Put this in a fire. Without air, wood inside shouldn't burn but should create black wood, charcoal. Some testing for the best way to create charcoal would be needed.
You can mix wood ash with soil and compost, but charcoal is better.
In regards to healing, more of the wounded will no waste when you use clean rags to protect their wound from dirty things and to stop bleeding, yes. But it's the best to boil these rags not long before you need to use rags, ideally maybe before the battle. If you store rags too long, germs again will come to inhabit these. Rags simply shouldn't be hot when used, but otherwise, freshly boiled rags are the best, and rags boiled some time before are better than nothing.
Do you know that sewing wounds is possible? But you would need to use a freshly boiled needle and thread, obviously. Then you can sew together a wound, and then said wound should heal better. Sewing wounds is a skill that takes a considerable amount of practice. If you do it incorrectly, people may die, so maybe test this on captured enemies first? Then you could teach some of your wise people how to do that. This should be done when a wound is deep, rags alone cannot then keep wound together properly. Thread needs to be carefully removed after 10 days or so.
And remember, it would also help people with their health to wash their hands before touching wounds and food.
You can also use a secret known as the crop rotation. This way you allow a field to rest and regain good qualities. One field is planted in the autumn with rye or winter wheat, followed by spring oats or barley; the second field with crops such as peas, lentils, or beans; and the third field is left fallow. The three fields are rotated in this manner so that every three years, a field would rest and be fallow.
You can use also simpler rotation, but it's much worse, as too much land is unused, but at least soil can rest and regenerate. Under a simpler two-field rotation, half the land is planted in a year, while the other half lay fallow. Then, in the next year, the two fields are reversed.
Germs are in many places. You cannot observe these creatures by means that you now have, but you can observe that fewer people should die with proper care for wounded and handwashing. Often people are ill because of germs than entered their bodies through wounds, or eating dirty things, or eating rotten things, or through touching ill person too much. Of course, there are also magical and more mysterious causes of illness, but germs cause many though not all diseases.
Dangerous germs also like fresh human waste, so people should defecate away from water used for drinking, cleaning, and washing. You need to bury human waste well away from a water source or add said waste to compost. People should wash hands carefully after working with waste, and use tools for working with waste (to overturn compost pile for example).
It would be also very good for health if people could clean their whole bodies and clothes with clean water from time to time. Do you know about soap? Because soap is also good.
And you can also use willow bark to combat fevers. Boil willow bark, then an ill person should drink said drink when no longer too hot. This can also help old people with a small pain, or with headaches.
People shouldn't always believe in permanence. This is very, very, very bad belief to cultivate, and while this may help you now, long-term this will lead to your defeat. You need to change some things, there is no other way, and people must believe you as so wise, that your changes are for the better. Or fear you. Or fear these warriors that love you. Or be paid in wealth. Or, sometimes, many of these means.
And about graven numbers. Remember to do as I advised you before. Symbols for: zero, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine. Then you can write ten as "one, zero", twenty as "two, zero", fifty-five as "five, five". This may sound slightly weird, especially "zero", but trust me: this method is simple and allows to write any number imaginable with the use of only ten symbols.
In regards to the war about to be fought; if your magics can inflict such woe upon the forests, then it stands to reason that the forest people will be temporarily displaced and thus it would be advantageous to fight them as they evacuate the forest.
If not, then a war in the woodlands is better, it would carry risks, but the nine need be tempered in the ways of war.
And now I will speak on matters that my fellow voices have spoken.
You have struck the mark regarding cities. Most cities are maintained precisely because the inhabitants are meek, they fear the powers above and are content with the bread given unto them.
Thus the maintenance of the city is a simple affair, unless logistics, nature, religion or politics dictate otherwise.
But your people are not meek and will not be collared without resistance.
But let me tell you of some cities that whilst urban, still follow the ways of the proud tribe.
Once in a land far away, the tribes of a poor land joined in a pact, and united they conquered and enslaved the mighty empires which once proclaimed themselves as powers absolute.
These tribes where now incredibly rich with loot and slaves, so much so that the poorest amongst them had five slaves and ornaments of gold.
The first chief of the tribes had new cities built then, spread around his massive dominion, and placed between the largest concentrations of the conquered peoples, for the tribes must watch over the conquered, but they cannot taint themselves with meekness by living amongst the meek.
The new cities where built for the tribes, each construct divided into districts.
Each district would have a place dedicated to worship and a place dedicated to commerce. Furthedmore the district would be divided into houses, each massive and having both a well and a kitchen, and each holds three generations of a family in full, with its neighbours housing its kin.
Thus a district is in truth a place where a faction of a tribe is settled, and so the city as a whole houses a tribe or several.
The loot earned in war made sure that all tasks not pertaining to war, song, poetry and trade were performed by slaves. And the maintenance of order and stability was handled by the elders, seniors and chieftains within each house, district and city.
But much honour was had in the olden ways of the nomads, and so the tribes in the city often sent their young to their wild kin, so that they may uphold the olden ways when they return to dwell in the city.
This model of settlement maintains the familiar tribal structure and culture, whilst giving the benifits of urbanisation.
If this interests you oh Undying one, then I can go into further details.
But now unto the matter of writting:
It is true that writting and the consideration thereof can make you more clever, but that is not due to writting itself, but the excersies of the mind in such a fashion.
The same effect is had by song making and poetry, and both can be spread amongst the nine more readily than writting.
Furthermore, music holds a sway over memory far greater than any other. A man of 90 who lost all his mental faculties, will remember a tune he heard when he was but a babe if exposed to it again.
It is why tales in song and verse are remeberd and kept for far longer than those written upon paper or carved into clay, for the excerise of memory strengthens it, whilst relying upon others, be they man or object, to remember weakens it.
And as for permanence, it is the truth espoused that is permanent, not the method by which it was told. The book my fellow spoke of was not written until many years after the fact. And in that time its words where kept in memory and passed along, for those who kept it saw it as the highest truth, and so spared no effort in maintaining it in their minds and hearts.
So long as people belive in the absolute sacricy of a thing, they will remember it, and no single method can claim the cause of this remembrance.
Buy let me tell you of poetry and its rules.
The songs your singers make are doubtlessly arranged in a manner by which it is pleasing to the ear.
But consider laying strict rules on how a song is sung while using an instrument, and thus how it is composed.
This is done by observing how common are different methods of singing are, and then making a strict tradition of such.
Let us assume you end up with 20 methods of singing whilst using a drum, now observe and ask your singers about what topics and themes are most common for each of the twenty.
Now observe how the words are arranged and where the pauses are placed and sounds emphasised, and again make a rule of it.
This will give you a structure of poetry, both complex and encompassing and quite difficult.
Now why would you want such a thing? For one, once it is established, it will create a system that will last you till the end of time
It will also allow for greater complexity of songs and its difficulty will make the poet a man of great prestige and glory. Indeed amongst some people, a poem from a good poet was such that it could start wars amongst kin and end them amongst ancient enemies.
But most importantly, due to it being clearly structured, poetry becomes available to all the people, as all can learn of or observe the structure.
This gives a new avenue of glory, but more importantly, the mental excerises necessary will strengthen both the intellect and the memory.
And a people used to complex thinking and who have a strong memory are a blessing, and can be utilised and depended upon for many great things.
To make it even more accessible for people to learn poetry, observe how the drums are struck in a rhythm as the poem is sung.
The rhyme should broadly resemble the rhythm of the beat, make it a rule that the poetic meters are built to match the instrumental rhythms.
For you see, rhythms come very easily to people and are quite memorable. And so anyone who is familiar with a rhythm, can try his hand to matching words to it, and so poetry becomes much easier to learn.
If what I said is confusing to you o undying one, then I apologise, and will elaborate in greater technical detail in the future if you so seek.
Do your people have knowledge to craft armour of horn and bone? And by what method do they craft their bows and spears? And do they know to let the best amongst their beasts fowls lay only with the best? And do they practice the keeping of the only the seed of the best plants of the crop for to plant once more?
[X] [Cacophony] Forty-Second
[X] Through Eppam lands
I greet you once more, Bianca, and apologise for neglecting to introduce myself earlier, when I asked about your traditions and routines. I am known as Forty-Second, though you should know that the number has no relation to any hierarchy or organization within the Cacophony. It is a reference to a matter irrelevant to our discussions with you, which would require lengthy explanations of obscure context. Should you be more curious, know that the number is regarded as a symbol of knowledge, derived from a humorous and obscure legend from a distant land.
Now, on to the matter of advising. It is interesting, to hear your thoughts on cities. It would be incorrect to describe the lives of city-dwellers as an endless festival, as they do work and act as others do, if in a different manner. The existence of a city, a place where many thousands of men and women gather to live and work, with food and supplies transported to them rather than gathered by the city-dwellers, allows for individual workers to specialize. Imagine, if you will, two men with a passion for making arrows. One man is a tribesman. He spends his time hunting for his family, or farming, or raiding the enemies of his tribe. The other man is a city-dweller. As a specialised worker, he will not need to hunt, or farm, or raid, for there are other men who dedicate their lives to these things. Instead, he spends his time crafting arrows, or other tasks of a similar nature. In doing so, he develops great skill in his craft. His creations would likely be of superior make to his tribal counterpart, who dedicates his time to other matters. In addition, this city-dwelling fletcher would be capable of making arrows more swiftly as well, and in the end produce more overall due to devoting more time to the task and spending more time practicing.
It is the same for all careers within the city. Food would be gathered and brought to the city by farmers and hunters within the countryside. Specialised blacksmiths would work metal to make tools, and carpenters would spend their time crafting furniture and other... wooden implements, I suppose. In specialising, the increased output of each worker allows for more resources and tools-which in turn allows for greater numbers of people to live and work in the area. This concentration of skilled workers allows for the construction of great buildings many times the height of a man, with many rooms and floors stacked atop one another. It allows for men to dedicate themselves to developing better tools or means of doing things, which in turn would increase the productivity of farms and labourers within the city, or the creation of better weapons or military tactics over time.
Some men dedicate themselves to art, and can create lifelike representations of worldly scenes out of stone or paint. Some mortal kings use these artists as a means of increasing their reputation and ensuring that knowledge of their deeds lasts after their deaths-imagine, if you will, stone statues of yourself that your people might look upon, that they might recognise you and know to heed your wisdom, even if you hadn't approached their tribe in a generation. I know not of the details of magic, but it is also true that learned individuals could work to pacify spirits and perform other such mystic tasks.
Most importantly, perhaps, this concentration of people allows for a source of warriors. I recall that you once said that the Nine Nations numbered in the thousands. How many of those thousands are warriors? The Cacophony knows of cities, of mighty nations, kingdoms, republics, and empires, capable of fielding armies in the tens of thousands, or even the hundreds of thousands, recruited from cities populated by millions. The human mind cannot even fully grasp or imagine the scope of, for example, two hundred men standing together to charge at their enemies, much tens of thousands or more. Oh! A million, by the way, is a number that represents ten groups of one hundred groups of a thousand. That is to say, one hundred groups of a thousand, ten times over. It does not matter how meek or fierce a warrior is, should he be faced with seemingly unending opponents on the battlefield. Of course, a city of millions shall not likely exist for centuries or even millennia yet, though centuries is more likely, in more populated areas of the world. Perhaps one such empire already does? Our knowledge is somewhat incomplete, though I personally rate it as relatively unlikely. Even then, such a city would only exist as the capital of some incomparably mighty nation.
Perhaps Va of the Lan might know of such things? He is well traveled as you say, and likely has heard rumors from other travelers in distant lands.
We know that the ways of your people are not currently conductive to gathering in cities or waging war on such a scale, and also that it is exceedingly unlikely that any such cities or nations exist and will attack you in the near future. It is our belief, too, that cities and nations such as those I have described will inevitably begin to form. In my estimation, such kingdoms will begin covering the entire world between at most three thousand and at least two hundred years from now. We know that smaller kingdoms and empires do exist even at this time, though you are currently distant from such powers. We know this because others have attempted to summon us, in distant lands, and we learned some small details of their circumstances in the attempts. Your summoning succeeded, of course. The Cacophony does not advise any other master at this time, and I for one shall immediately inform you should the incredibly unlikely circumstances required for such a thing occur.
Let us be away from the topic of summoning, though, and back to the nature of cities and larger kingdoms. These are the reasons why many spirits have attempted to advise you on such things as writing, or numbers. It is impossible to organise or rule such a large number of people, with armies and warriors scattered across the lands required to produce, wood, and animals for feeding and clothing them, without ways to store information, or convey messages and the like. It is certain, that in time some greedy mortal king might look upon the Nine Nations and consider them weak, desiring slaves, glory, or land, should your people not adapt over time to become more populous and have more warriors. Perhaps not now, and perhaps not even for thousands of years, but it will happen given enough time. Considering the fact that you are immortal, well... Should you not find means to consolidate your power, to exert your will over vast lands and many villages and cities through servants and messengers even without your direct presence, the chance of you someday being killed or sealed once more becomes uncomfortably high.
By no means do I suggest that you immediately restructure your society or attempt to create a city as such a thing would likely fail without experience, but rather that you should consider our ideas in how they would work in such a context and not strongly oppose any trends towards such centralization should your people develop them.
Oh, and as for the matter at hand... I believe that knowledge of enemy movements is more important than the advantage of chariots. You are invading the Forest People, after all, not the other way around. Why would they come out to meet you if they would face doom in doing so? In addition, unless the Chaussow have agreed to aid the people beforehand or decided to invade the Forest People themselves, it is certainly foolishness to make a second enemy at this time. Travelling through their lands would allow them to, even if they are too cowed to engage in a direct battle, harass and ambush your warriors from behind and all in all make it much less likely for you to be victorious against the Forest People. They would also likely view you and your people as an enemy in the future, for a few generations at least. As such, my advice is to invade through the Eppam lands, that you might not be surprised by any trickery your opponents might employ.
[X] Through Eppam lands Argument for [X] Through Eppam lands
We anticipate that your magic would be of more use within the forest, where minor magic could be used to effect greater trickery. Your enhanced physical abilities could allow you to climb and jump from the trees in ambush perhaps.
If you do not go through the Eppam lands then at least stay away from the folly that is the Chaussow. It would not do to unnecessarily anger the neighbors and invite retaliation, especially when their are so many more worthy uses of your time. Gimme
True Names have meaning and no small measure of power, but a name given and a name taken are of very different natures. It would suit my goals to be gifted a name. But be aware, such could alter the nature of our relations.
Great Undying One, perhaps this comparison should help with the understanding of disease and how it spreads.
Your people make bread and brew beer, and they use yeasts to do these things, yes? Those yeasts are composed of a large number of those tiny living things, which feed upon the grain and water and produce the air that makes bread rise and fresh beer bubble, as well as the liquid that makes a cup of beer taste differently than a cup of hot water in which roasted grain was briefly soaked to flavor it.
Most diseases are caused by similar creatures that feed upon us or our plants or our animals in the same way as yeast feeds upon grain. Cleansing one's self after contacting blood or excrement or other viscera is a way to remove those tiny creatures before they can find a way past our skin, which for most of these creatures might be armor, and begin to feast upon our muscles and organs. This too is why cleansing wounds and sealing them with bandage or with needle and thread is important, as left alone they provide any such creature, even those that might normally never be able to penetrate our skin, with a direct path to our flesh.
Unfortunately, while there are ways to kill such creatures even once they have entered the body, many of them are impossible to create or to use safely with the tools you have. This is why we voices have been so focused on ways to prevent that from happening in the first place, as many of those are within your present abilities. Two ways that appear not to have been mentioned are using honey or alcohol (alcohol is the liquid in beer or wine that gives it a slight burning sensation in the throat and that makes your thoughts fuzzier when you drink it). Honey you would use most effectively by coating the part of a bandage that will touch the wound with it, or by filling in the wound with honey prior to bandaging. Alcohol you would use to wash the wound before bandaging or stitching it; you can also use it to clean your tools and your hands before treating wounds, although I would recommend using water first to remove any visible stains and debris and the alcohol as just a brief rinse to kill the creatures that cause disease, as water is easier to come by.
The alcohol should be purified first, however. The way by which you do this is that you take two pots and place a connection between the lid of one and the side or lid of a second, preferably a smaller pot than the first; the connection should be sealed off from the open air the same way the pots are. The second pot should also be level with or slightly lower than the first pot, and distant enough or separated by enough of a barrier that the fire used to heat the first pot does not substantially heat the second. You then put beer or wine into the first pot and begin to make it hotter until you just start to have liquid appear in the second pot. Keep it at that heat until the second pot is sufficiently filled. You can then do the same thing with the liquid in the second pot to purify it further, and will probably need to in order to get alcohol strong enough for proper wound cleaning. This same method can be used to purify other liquids as well, although in some cases the liquid you want to keep might be the liquid left in the first pot instead, with the second pot having water or some other impurity you wished to remove. You can also use this method simply to produce water that has been purified of salt and dirt, which can be useful for various things; too, the salt and dirt itself might be useful, and this method is a way to extract the salt that we eat from seawater for later use.
Should someone become ill, however, there are a few things that can be done to make it more likely for them to survive their illness. In particular, regularly wiping away their sweat and trying to cool their skin to normal temperatures if they have a fever, and keeping their bedding and clothing clean and dry if at all possible. Providing their bodies with enough water is also important, as is replacing the other things they need that they lose in sweat or other excretions, especially should they have diarrhea; thirst-quenching amounts of a drink made from one part salt and twelve parts honey for every four hundred parts purified water should suffice if adequately mixed, although if the person is capable of eating more substantial food without vomiting then things like bean porridge or yogurt would also be good to have. For someone who has bled heavily, meanwhile, food such as liver and dark green vegetables are ideal to replace what was lost in their blood, along with drinking purified water or other beverages to replace that blood's liquid portion.
Greetings, Great Undying One. You will not have heard my voice before, for I had not chosen to speak before now. But I would like to ask you to consider the usefulness of writing in establishing belief in permanance and tradition. Already with songs and wisdom you persuade your people that things have always been this way, or that way; would it not make it easier to make them believe things have always been so when the truth of your words is backed by truth engraved in stone?
Of course, permanency can be detrimental, if it causes people to be stubborn when they should learn to bend. Change is always necessary. But with the understanding of the past afforded by writing, people can be made to understand why change is necessary, when it is necessary.
Where we come from, there is a book, whose contents have been reproduced for many hundreds of years. It proclaims to contain the words of one of our Gods and his foremost prophet. Many people here believe in the words written in that book, even though there are none alive now who could verify the truth of those words now. People still believe in laws and records that were laid down centuries ago, for they believe in the immutability and permanence of the written word.
Finally, far from it for me to be presumptous, Great Undying One, but I assume that, unless I am mistaken, your memory is not perfect, and that like all beings you forget things with the passage of time.
Memory is a fickle and unreliable thing. We have many wise and learned men, and of these many who have studied in great detail the inner workings of the mind. These wise men have found, among other things, that it is possible to trick men in to remembering they had seen things that they had not witnessed, merely a week after the fact, or to fool them into describing in great detail childhood memories that had never actually occurred.
Writing will help bolster the mind and ward against forgetfulness. It can be consulted to verify or disprove the veracity of memory, and serve as an aid in remembering things that might have otherwise been forgotten. If nothing else, I would suggest to consider taking up the practice yourself.
