Shining Example (WORM ORIGIN QUEST)

Terran Imperium · Feb 24, 2019

To be honest, I'm starting to get as annoyed as David or Rebecca at the PC's Paragon attitude, the epitome of goodness.

It reminds me of a similar case, Shirou Emiya but he felt a bit more natural and the reasons were quite deep, the setting made it quite clear Shirou was a distorted individual. Maybe, it's a bit of an unfair comparison.

The PC is naive in a way that grates annoyingly at me. His actions are good and there is nothing wrong with that but he's making so many irrational decisions that no one would do, even stupid people. I'm not talking about the latest vote but about the story in general.

I fail to see how the PC can be so... good, to the point he is inhuman. He is the ultimate Paragon and I don't know why. He's just a random guy, he survived and would like to do some good. I can understand that but he takes it to a whole another level without any particular reason but just for the sake of being a perfect Gary Stu of goodness.

Shirou had a reason, he was completely wiped out clean, his memories, his personality, his self deep down to his very soul which allowed him as he grew up to be a distorted person that can only think of the good of others to the point, he is inhuman and strange to others or mentally sick if I put it in crude terms.

Evaunit02mark1 · Feb 24, 2019

Kind of want to keep an eye on Manton to make sure he's stable, but we have no reason to suspect any problems at the moment.

The most I.C. thing would be to talk to Legend I think.

[X] Matthew. Last time you checked, he's still in New York helping rebuild after Symphony's riots. You could help him out before your shift starts, it's the least you can do.

Blonddude42 · Feb 24, 2019

Terran Imperium said:
To be honest, I'm starting to get as annoyed as David or Rebecca at the PC's Paragon attitude, the epitome of goodness.

It reminds me of a similar case, Shirou Emiya but he felt a bit more natural and the reasons were quite deep, the setting made it quite clear Shirou was a distorted individual. Maybe, it's a bit of an unfair comparison.

The PC is naive in a way that grates annoyingly at me. His actions are good and there is nothing wrong with that but he's making so many irrational decisions that no one would do, even stupid people. I'm not talking about the latest vote but about the story in general.

I fail to see how the PC can be so... good, to the point he is inhuman. He is the ultimate Paragon and I don't know why. He's just a random guy, he survived and would like to do some good. I can understand that but he takes it to a whole another level without any particular reason but just for the sake of being a perfect Gary Stu of goodness.

Shirou had a reason, he was completely wiped out clean, his memories, his personality, his self deep down to his very soul which allowed him as he grew up to be a distorted person that can only think of the good of others to the point, he is inhuman and strange to others or mentally sick if I put it in crude terms.

Part of it is that we have the power to be the ultimate paragon. Mercy being the privilege of the strong and all that. Mostly thought it's us smashing the paragon option every time we see one.

I see Atlas as a boy who found out he gets to play as superman, and decides to really get into the roll

Quest protagonists are rarely like real people, so it's honestly hard to judge them as one.

Terran Imperium · Feb 24, 2019

Blonddude42 said:
Part of it is that we have the power to be the ultimate paragon. Mercy being the privilege of the strong and all that. Mostly thought it's us smashing the paragon option every time we see one.

I see Atlas as a boy who found out he gets to play as superman, and decides to really get into the roll

Quest protagonists are rarely like real people, so it's honestly hard to judge them as one.

I'm more asking the QM here than anything else. I don't find anything wrong about SVers smashing the Paragon vote every time but QM always has the option to write it in a way that makes the PC feel human and not a personification of Goodness. Even if it isn't particularly relevant to the plot or anything at all, just make the PC do at least one selfish action. It would be mostly flavour but it'll make the PC relatable and feel human.

I mean, the whole thing that got me into this was how a teenager that was saved miraculously from cancer would deal with his new powers and how he would affect the world and people around him. Yet, the teenager part seems to be discarded. Alex is mature and perfect(in personality), he doesn't feel like a teenager at all.

I mean, seriously. David, Rebecca, any other character than the PC feels human, someone you can understand why they're doing the things they do. They are more interesting than the PC. That is not the case for Alex. He is just that perfectly good for no particular reason, a literal saint.

IKnowNothing · Feb 24, 2019

Terran Imperium said:
To be honest, I'm starting to get as annoyed as David or Rebecca at the PC's Paragon attitude, the epitome of goodness.

It reminds me of a similar case, Shirou Emiya but he felt a bit more natural and the reasons were quite deep, the setting made it quite clear Shirou was a distorted individual. Maybe, it's a bit of an unfair comparison.

The PC is naive in a way that grates annoyingly at me. His actions are good and there is nothing wrong with that but he's making so many irrational decisions that no one would do, even stupid people. I'm not talking about the latest vote but about the story in general.

I fail to see how the PC can be so... good, to the point he is inhuman. He is the ultimate Paragon and I don't know why. He's just a random guy, he survived and would like to do some good. I can understand that but he takes it to a whole another level without any particular reason but just for the sake of being a perfect Gary Stu of goodness.

Shirou had a reason, he was completely wiped out clean, his memories, his personality, his self deep down to his very soul which allowed him as he grew up to be a distorted person that can only think of the good of others to the point, he is inhuman and strange to others or mentally sick if I put it in crude terms.

Terran Imperium said:
I'm more asking the QM here than anything else. I don't find anything wrong about SVers smashing the Paragon vote every time but QM always has the option to write it in a way that makes the PC feel human and not a personification of Goodness. Even if it isn't particularly relevant to the plot or anything at all, just make the PC do at least one selfish action. It would be mostly flavour but it'll make the PC relatable and feel human.

I mean, the whole thing that got me into this was how a teenager that was saved miraculously from cancer would deal with his new powers and how he would affect the world and people around him. Yet, the teenager part seems to be discarded. Alex is mature and perfect(in personality), he doesn't feel like a teenager at all.

I mean, seriously. David, Rebecca, any other character than the PC feels human, someone you can understand why they're doing the things they do. That is not the case for Alex. He is just that perfectly good for no particular reason, a literal saint.

No one in worm is mentally sound when you really think about it. But to clarify, are you asking me to completely disect Alex's character or simply explain his reasoning behind being the 'Paragon' as you say?

Terran Imperium · Feb 24, 2019

IKnowNothing said:
No one in worm is mentally sound when you really think about it. But to clarify, are you asking me to completely disect Alex's character or simply explain his reasoning behind being the 'Paragon' as you say?

Merely a reason as to why he is so perfectly good because I don't understand how a supposedly normal person became that way. That's discarding trigger events since Alex never experienced such a thing which is why generally no one in Worm is mentally sound for some reason or another.

Although it ends up being the same, you'll have to dissect Alex's character along with explaining how someone can be so perfect.

Supermushu · Feb 24, 2019

Blonddude42 said:
Part of it is that we have the power to be the ultimate paragon. Mercy being the privilege of the strong and all that. Mostly thought it's us smashing the paragon option every time we see one.

I see Atlas as a boy who found out he gets to play as superman, and decides to really get into the roll

Quest protagonists are rarely like real people, so it's honestly hard to judge them as one.

Basically This, though Shirou Emiya is a lot closer to Atlas than you might think- his origin story is just a compressed version of Atlas' that has been cranked up to eleven.

More than that, I think that its pretty easy to see the chain of events that led to Atlas as we know him (at least for me).

First, we should consider Alex Everett. He grew up surrounded by talented people- Clint, his sister and others, yet he never had any talent of his own, relying heavily on his family- he responded to this by trying his hardest to repay them in the only way he can; by being positive. Even if he was untalented (and probably worthless in his own eyes) he could be a living reminder that they could do extraordinary things. Then he gets cancer, and he becomes a millstone instead of merely a load. At first, he forces himself to believe that he will be cured, that things will get better, but as time passes and he gets weaker with no cure in sight, he resigns himself to death. At this point, I'd rate him as little better than Shirou, since his only reason for living is that he wants to make the lives of everyone who is wasting their time on him as great as possible. So he smiles, and laughs, and forces himself to visit Rebecca day after day, even as his legs fail him- to keep up that front of optimism, of perfect goodness and hope. As far as he's concerned, its all he has left.

Then, a doctor shows up with a miracle. It is telling that his thoughts in the early arcs are dominated by endless reflection on his mundane origin- He is no more secure in the idea that he could be a Hero than you are @Terran Imperium. So he does what he does best- he puts up a front, and tries his hardest to act as if it has already become reality. And again, we see comparisons to Shirou- except Atlas' power allows him to skip the training stage and go straight to saving the world. It is as you said; he makes all the Paragon decisions because that is what the Image of the Hero in his mind would do, and he wants, more than anything else, to finally match that image. To finally be special.

And while hes done a pretty good job of it so far, he is running up against the same issues Shirou did; but magnified because he does not have the literal concept of [Utopia] to draw on. We see that Eidolon doesn't like him because of his slightly inhuman mindset, and more than anyone we see Rebecca realising that, on the path he's on, there will come a day when he must choose between himself and the people, and that he will hurl himself into hell to spare them if it comes to that even if she would have him return home.

So yes, I think that Atlas' mindset is unhealthy, but it IS a product of his experiences and not one that he suddenly developed in a magic cursed Fire *ahem*.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TL;DR. Whilst comparing Atlas to Superman is a valid thought, I rather think he comes closer in nature to Spider-man, which I can summarise in a sentence as follows;

"He's EXACTLY a good enough person to hate himself for not being a better person".

I hope you enjoyed my rambling thoughts!

Edit: OMG Iknownothing-senpai noticed me AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-

Dark as Silver · Feb 24, 2019

Terran Imperium said:
Merely a reason as to why he is so perfectly good because I don't understand how a supposedly normal person became that way. That's discarding trigger events since Alex never experienced such a thing which is why generally no one in Worm is mentally sound for some reason or another.

Although it ends up being the same, you'll have to dissect Alex's character along with explaining how someone can be so perfect.

I'm curious what you think a 'normally good' character would have done in some situations in this quest.
As for stupid decisions that he made earlier, is that the stuff prior to the Titan Rises chapter that was generally born out of his self doubt, are you complaining that we're dumb voters or what?

Albany · Feb 24, 2019

[X] Matthew. Last time you checked, he's still in New York helping rebuild after Symphony's riots. You could help him out before your shift starts, it's the least you can do.

Eh, either this or Charles. I just wanna hang out with a bro, and chill out for a second.

Terran Imperium · Feb 24, 2019

Supermushu said:
I hope you enjoyed my rambling thoughts!

I did and it gives a pretty good explanation. Thank you.
I can see the parallels you're making and they're quite clear.
Although, I feel the need to point out that Shirou was wiped clean by literal magical fire like you would wipe your PC out of all data.
I mean being self-doubting and fractured before Alex's miraculous rehabilitation does not necessarily make him into a perfect Paragon, if anything, it changes the facets of his brokenness. I'm not sure if I managed to get my point across. ^^'

A pretty interesting thing to keep in mind is that an overbearing Paragon is a quite thin line from an oppressive tyrant but even then here, it isn't the case due to how perfect it is. The goodness of the character doesn't feel like it is overbearing, it just is and always is.

Dark as Silver said:
I'm curious what you think a 'normally good' character would have done in some situations in this quest.
As for stupid decisions that he made earlier, is that the stuff prior to the Titan Rises chapter that was generally born out of his inferiority, are you complaining that we're dumb voters or what?

Did you just ignore/miss my above posts or are you just looking for trouble? Sorry but it does seem that way because I was quite clear as to what I'm referring to.
If anything, just take this as merely a discussion about the PC because that's what it is.

pucflek · Feb 24, 2019

@IKnowNothing I don ´t usually do this, because honestly i am shit at grammar, but some of the mistakes have been glaring even to me, so i took liberty of pointing them out.

IKnowNothing said:
With her hand on his neck, Rebecca's face is a stone cold line.

I am actually not sure, it probably was grammatically correct before, so just putting it here, do whatever you want with it

IKnowNothing said:
Nothing moves, nothing even breathes.

Should be e in there.

IKnowNothing said:
He falls on his right leg, giving it a few experimental hops while he dusted off his clothes.

Again, technically makes sense, so maybe not a mistake?

IKnowNothing said:
Her arm tightens and you shake your hand.

Need verb in there instead of adjective? I think its called that.

IKnowNothing said:
Money isn't an issue, and All Father is going to be spending the rest of his days in a cell

Missing word.

IKnowNothing said:
"Welcome to Brockton Bay Alexandria, we breathe crazy around here."

Missing e.

IKnowNothing said:
"I was going to say that it happened too fast,"

Missing o.

IKnowNothing said:
"It didn ´t,"

I am not sure to what is Alexandria responding there, but either we are missing dialogue context, or there is wrong word in there.

IKnowNothing said:
just a section of the wall that looked like it popped out.

Switched to different tense.

IKnowNothing said:
and coughs as the liquid goes down

Third person s.

IKnowNothing said:
"So…" you start, "Are we here to talk about it?"

Typo in here.

IKnowNothing said:
He finishes his drinking while you're left wondering what he's going on about. He taps against the table, face contorting as he stares at the empty glass in front of him.

IKnowNothing said:
David rolls his eyes, swirling his finger around the edge of the cup. Maybe he's trying to make it ring. It doesn't, and you're left with silence for a few seconds. One more long gulp and David's halfway through his pint. He shivers at the taste, and you roll your eyes as you down the rest of your water. After all the work that you've put in, you need this.

No grammar problem in this. But there is no refill between this segment and the one i quoted right before it (i think). So how did Eidolon refill his glass?

IKnowNothing said:
David grips his glass a little too tight even as he starts rubbing his forehead.

Again, missing o.

IKnowNothing said:
David... doesn't look like he knows what to do with that.

Missing pronoun.

IKnowNothing said:
Immature, certainly, but right now you don't care.

Typo in immature.

IKnowNothing said:
"What? Shit talking each other?" you ask.

Lower case letter at start of sentence.

There is probably lots of others, but i am not confident in pointing out those. Otherwise, great update.

McLuvin · Feb 24, 2019

@Terran Imperium, frankly I feel Alex makes perfect sense as a character, he grew up in a loving, but at the same time flawed and broken household where his only talent was his kindness and patience and empathy, in comparison to his far more traditionally talented siblings. Then he got cancer, saw someone that needed help, and threw himself into making her life better before he died, same as how he took on the responsibility of helping his father when the rest of his family had better options for their future they needed to focus on.

Now he has superpowers and the change he inflicted upon himself to deal with his father addiction, his inadequacy and Rebecca's pain has given him the chance to try and be this paragon he thinks he should be.

You see when Rebecca was insulted, he has a dark side, the way he dealt with All Father was brutal. But he expects more of himself because he wants to be as special as his family. He seems mature because, between slowly wasting away and watching the girl he loves do the same, being the main one dealing with his mother leaving and his fathers issues from a young age and the multiple life or death struggles he's been involved in (and I will remind you how poorly and immaturely he reacted to almost all his fights) and where he's killed people already, he doesn't have a choice but to be grown up.

Even then, he acts like an absolute kid when it comes to Rebecca and is very naive at times. He's mature for his age, but he still shows his age time and again.

I don't understand your criticisms frankly, nor do I feel them justified in the slightest. Sorry, but I just don't understand where you're coming from here

[X] Matthew. Last time you checked, he's still in New York helping rebuild after Symphony's riots. You could help him out before your shift starts, it's the least you can do.

IKnowNothing · Feb 24, 2019

Supermushu said:
Basically This, though Shirou Emiya is a lot closer to Atlas than you might think- his origin story is just a compressed version of Atlas' that has been cranked up to eleven.

More than that, I think that its pretty easy to see the chain of events that led to Atlas as we know him (at least for me).

First, we should consider Alex Everett. He grew up surrounded by talented people- Clint, his sister and others, yet he never had any talent of his own, relying heavily on his family- he responded to this by trying his hardest to repay them in the only way he can; by being positive. Even if he was untalented (and probably worthless in his own eyes) he could be a living reminder that they could do extraordinary things. Then he gets cancer, and he becomes a millstone instead of merely a load. At first, he forces himself to believe that he will be cured, that things will get better, but as time passes and he gets weaker with no cure in sight, he resigns himself to death. At this point, I'd rate him as little better than Shirou, since his only reason for living is that he wants to make the lives of everyone who is wasting their time on him as great as possible. So he smiles, and laughs, and forces himself to visit Rebecca day after day, even as his legs fail him- to keep up that front of optimism, of perfect goodness and hope. As far as he's concerned, its all he has left.

Then, a doctor shows up with a miracle. It is telling that his thoughts in the early arcs are dominated by endless reflection on his mundane origin- He is no more secure in the idea that he could be a Hero than you are @Terran Imperium. So he does what he does best- he puts up a front, and tries his hardest to act as if it has already become reality. And again, we see comparisons to Shirou- except Atlas' power allows him to skip the training stage and go straight to saving the world. It is as you said; he makes all the Paragon decisions because that is what the Image of the Hero in his mind would do, and he wants, more than anything else, to finally match that image. To finally be special.

And while hes done a pretty good job of it so far, he is running up against the same issues Shirou did; but magnified because he does not have the literal concept of [Utopia] to draw on. We see that Eidolon doesn't like him because of his slightly inhuman mindset, and more than anyone we see Rebecca realising that, on the path he's on, there will come a day when he must choose between himself and the people, and that he will hurl himself into hell to spare them if it comes to that even if she would have him return home.

So yes, I think that Atlas' mindset is unhealthy, but it IS a product of his experiences and not one that he suddenly developed in a magic cursed Fire *ahem*.

TL;DR. Whilst comparing Atlas to superman is a valid thought, I rather think he comes closer in nature to Spiderman, which I can summarise in a sentence as follows;

"He's EXACTLY a good enough person to hate himself for not being a better one".

I hope you enjoyed my rambling thoughts!

Not going to lie, I don't have much to add to this, you hit the nail on the head well-done sir.

Alex is going so far out of his way to be perfect because, as was said, he finally has the chance to be someone other than the stupid little brother that had to be coddled through life. In his own words, I want to save myself, I want to be someone worth remembering.

Terran Imperium said:
Although, I feel the need to point out that Shirou was wiped clean by literal magical fire like you would wipe your PC out of all data.
I mean being self-doubting and fractured before Alex's miraculous rehabilitation does not necessarily make him into a perfect Paragon, if anything, it changes the facets of their brokenness. I'm not sure if I managed to get my point across. ^^'

It took me a second to look it over, but nevertheless, I can see where you're coming from. As was said, he is indeed putting up a front. But at the end of the day, perfect in Alex's mind and perfect for the situation are two very different things.

Terran Imperium said:
A pretty interesting thing to keep in mind is that an overbearing Paragon is a quite thin line from an oppressive tyrant but even then here, it isn't the case due to how perfect it is. The goodness of the character doesn't feel like it is overbearing, it just is and always is.

Food for thought later, thank you for your thoughts.

pucflek said:
@IKnowNothing I don ´t usually do this, because honestly i am shit at grammar, but some of the mistakes have been glaring even to me, so i took liberty of pointing them out

Oh geeze, clearly I need a new editor. Thanks for pointing these out, I'll fix them now.

Dark as Silver · Feb 24, 2019

Terran Imperium said:
Did you just ignore/miss my above posts or are you just looking for trouble? Sorry but it does seem that way because I was quite clear as to what I'm referring to.
If anything, just take this as merely a discussion about the PC because that's what it is.

I'm asking for you to give an example so that I know I'm not putting words into your mouth. Moral standards are absolutely relative so I want to gauge the difference between what you consider a paragon and would consider realistic.
I want to know what you're marking as a decision that not even stupid people would make when at the same time you're writing Alex off as too mature. However I'd mark his stupid decisions as evidence of his immaturity.
You don't make yourself clear at all, you just repeat that you consider Alex to be too much of

Terran Imperium said:
the epitome of goodness

Without ever pointing to some line that I can agree has been crossed.

I am trying to get some kind of concrete statement out of you so that I know what I can discuss rather than 'You feel this, I feel this'. I'm sorry you feel that I'm attacking you but this is the internet, miscommunications happen and so I just want to be totally unambiguous before I enter the discussion.

Supermushu · Feb 24, 2019

Terran Imperium said:
I did and it gives a pretty good explanation. Thank you.
I can see the parallels you're making and they're quite clear.
Although, I feel the need to point out that Shirou was wiped clean by literal magical fire like you would wipe your PC out of all data.
I mean being self-doubting and fractured before Alex's miraculous rehabilitation does not necessarily make him into a perfect Paragon, if anything, it changes the facets of his brokenness. I'm not sure if I managed to get my point across. ^^'

I'd point out that Shirou got away with a lot because of Avalon, which healed his wounds and gave him a literally invincible image that eventually good would prevail and the heroes would win. I'm also pretty sure that he wasn't literally wiped clean- he just had 99% of his memory erased from the trauma of walking through the fire and then being reconstructed via Avalon. I also think that he is in his own way just as much of a Mary Sue as you thought Atlas was; what kind of child muses on survivor's guilt when walking through LITERAL UNHOLY FLAMES?

In regards to Alex, for me the crux of the matter is that he's not a perfect paragon. He TRIES to be, but he still fails (kills shadow hands guy, brutalises E88 etc). Remember, he's acting as a paragon- he doesn't truly embrace the mindset of one (yet). With that said, I agree with you on that second point, and I think that he'll have to face that broke part of himself sooner or later

Edit: In fact, Shirou himself gives a pretty close summary -

" My will is strong like Iron, but my heart shatters like Glass"

Terran Imperium · Feb 24, 2019

IKnowNothing said:
Not going to lie, I don't have much to add to this, you hit the nail on the head well-done sir.

Alex is going so far out of his way to be perfect because, as was said, he finally has the chance to be someone other than the stupid little brother that had to be coddled through life. In his own words, I want to save myself, I want to be someone worth remembering.

It took me a second to look it over, but nevertheless, I can see where you're coming from. As was said, he is indeed putting up a front. But at the end of the day, perfect in Alex's mind and perfect for the situation are two very different things.

Food for thought later, thank you for your thoughts.

Oh geeze, clearly I need a new editor. Thanks for pointing these out, I'll fix them now.

I am not quite satisfied with the answer but I can see where it is coming from and I can understand it better now. Thank you for taking the time to answer.
As well as thanks to @Supermushu .

It is a great story. Please do keep it up!

McLuvin said:
@Terran Imperium, frankly I feel Alex makes perfect sense as a character, he grew up in a loving, but at the same time flawed and broken household where his only talent was his kindness and patience and empathy, in comparison to his far more traditionally talented siblings. Then he got cancer, saw someone that needed help, and threw himself into making her life better before he died, same as how he took on the responsibility of helping his father when the rest of his family had better options for their future they needed to focus on.

Now he has superpowers and the change he inflicted upon himself to deal with his father addiction, his inadequacy and Rebecca's pain has given him the chance to try and be this paragon he thinks he should be.

You see when Rebecca was insulted, he has a dark side, the way he dealt with All Father was brutal. But he expects more of himself because he wants to be as special as his family. He seems mature because, between slowly wasting away and watching the girl he loves do the same, being the main one dealing with his mother leaving and his fathers issues from a young age and the multiple life or death struggles he's been involved in (and I will remind you how poorly and immaturely he reacted to almost all his fights) and where he's killed people already, he doesn't have a choice but to be grown up.

Even then, he acts like an absolute kid when it comes to Rebecca and is very naive at times. He's mature for his age, but he still shows his age time and again.

I don't understand your criticisms frankly, nor do I feel them justified in the slightest. Sorry, but I just don't understand where you're coming from here

[X] Matthew. Last time you checked, he's still in New York helping rebuild after Symphony's riots. You could help him out before your shift starts, it's the least you can do.

I am really sorry but I don't understand your argument at all. Your points are trying to justify Alex's perfect goodness when they aren't. I'll expect it would work more in pointing out, he is not perfect and here's why which would make a bit more sense but not a particularly strong argument.

Dark as Silver said:
I'm asking for you to give an example so that I know I'm not putting words into your mouth. Moral standards are absolutely relative so I want to gauge the difference between what you consider a paragon and would consider realistic.
I want to know what you're marking as a decision that not even stupid people would make when at the same time you're writing Alex off as too mature. However I'd mark his stupid decisions as evidence of his immaturity.
You don't make yourself clear at all, you just repeat that you consider Alex to be too much of

Without ever pointing to some line that I can agree has been crossed.

I am trying to get some kind of concrete statement out of you so that I know what I can discuss rather than 'You feel this, I feel this'. I'm sorry you feel that I'm attacking you but this is the internet, miscommunications happen and so I just want to be totally unambiguous before I enter the discussion.

I'll have to be honest, I'm not sure I can do that and go through the entire story so I can point them out or even just one because honestly it I'm quite lazy. I mean, the QM himself and Supermushu got what I meant and they addressed it well because we were going off the same base which is not that hard to find if you read the story up until now.

The mere fact that they answered it and justified it is enough of a proof that behaviour exists and you merely need to go through the story again to find it if you really want to be convinced what I'm talking about is here or I'm just seeing things.

I didn't really feel attacked, you merely implied that I implied the voters were making stupid decisions when I was quite clear it wasn't about the votes.

McLuvin · Feb 24, 2019

Terran Imperium said:
I am really sorry but I don't understand your argument at all. Your points are trying to justify Alex's perfect goodness when they aren't. I'll expect it would work more in pointing out, he is not perfect and here's why which would make a bit more sense but not a particularly strong argument

I am, basically, saying Alex has forged himself into this perfect paragon persona he thinks he has to be and should be, using multiple examples where he has had to use his empathy and be the 'kind one'. However the Persona is not entirely the truth and Alex is still a human being, with flaws and issues, he is not the Paragon of perfect goodness, he just tries really really hard to be due to the way he has had to use his empathy to identify himself in contrast with his gifted siblings.

And then I address your issues with his maturity, basically listing all the shit he's gone through that would mature a kid quick, each on their own, without being piled up on each other.

Alex is broken enough to try and be perfect, to be made mature before his time, but not broken enough to break down, he's in that sweet spot, at the moment at least, that has forged him into someone who can and will strive to be Superman, even when he's really not.

Dark as Silver · Feb 24, 2019

Terran Imperium said:
I'll have to be honest, I'm not sure I can do that and go through the entire story so I can point them out or even just one because honestly it I'm quite lazy. I mean, the QM himself and Supermushu got what I meant and they addressed it well because we were going off the same base which is not that hard to find if you read the story up until now.

The mere fact that they answered it and justified it is enough of a proof that behaviour exists and you merely need to go through the story again to find it if you really want to be convinced what I'm talking about is here or I'm just seeing things.

That logic is absolutely terrible. I read through the whole story and wasn't bothered therefore the behaviour doesn't exist.
I don't need quotes but if you could give me the scenario's like

Terran Imperium said:
That time in the big coal mine, Alex should have kicked whatshisname the bad guy in the crotch.

Thats enough for me to know that we're not talking past each other.
IKnowNothing and Supermushu may just have different standards for what they think they can engage than I do. The reason I didn't want to do it like they did is that I felt it would exactly like you're and Mcluvins discussion is going; potential justifications that are put forth just get rejected because they aren't strong enough to justify the level of good that you are perceiving, and theres no way to see who is right here because you aren't making it clear why.

Terran Imperium · Feb 24, 2019

Dark as Silver said:
That logic is absolutely terrible. I read through the whole story and wasn't bothered therefore the behaviour doesn't exist.
I don't need quotes but if you could give me the scenario's like

Thats enough for me to know that we're not talking past each other.
IKnowNothing and Supermushu may just have different standards for what they think they can engage than I do. The reason I didn't want to do it like they did is that I felt it would exactly like you're and Mcluvins discussion is going; potential justifications that are put forth just get rejected because they aren't strong enough to justify the level of good that you are perceiving, and theres no way to see who is right here because you aren't making it clear why.

I understand what you're getting at and I could do it but I won't.

My questions were already addressed by QM and Supermushu. Their answer was good, it wasn't quite satisfying but I can understand it and why the PC is acting that way which is why I originally asked for clarifications in the first place.
So, I feel there is no need to continue this discussion when the primary goal was achieved in the first place.

I don't want to annoy other people by derailing the thread. Pretty sure people are more interested in talking about the recent update and the vote than me asking questions which probably no one cares about apart from me. ^^'

IKnowNothing · Feb 24, 2019

As for votes, a reminder these are going to be with people that Alex hasn't spent to much time interacting during the few months that Alex has been working.

Adhoc vote count started by IKnowNothing on Feb 25, 2019 at 1:40 PM, finished with 30 posts and 6 votes.

4 people have voted
[x] Matthew. Last time you checked, he's still in New York helping rebuild after Symphony's riots. You could help him out before your shift starts, it's the least you can do.
1 people have voted
[X] Charles. You haven't seen him too much, maybe he's cooked up something cool in his lab? If he has, you don't want to miss that.
- Dark as Silver
1 people have voted
[X] Fortuna. You haven't seen her at all since you started working, and it doesn't hurt anyone to say hi. Finding her though...
- Selias

Selias · Feb 24, 2019

[X] Fortuna. You haven't seen her at all since you started working, and it doesn't hurt anyone to say hi. Finding her though...

IKnowNothing · Feb 25, 2019

Alright, just a quick update I'm going to be keeping the vote open for another day or two so I can get started on this chapter the second that my tests are finished.

Not too many votes I know, but people seem to be leaning towards Matthew. It's because he's a genuinely nice guy isn't it?

karmaoa · Feb 25, 2019

[X] Manton. He's famous now with his paper proving the existence of Parahumans. Maybe he's got some advice for you, he's had plenty of time to think about this stuff.

Blonddude42 · Feb 25, 2019

Oh right I forgot to vote.

Help out the sane person who is probably getting stressed by his work.

We probably don't need to keep Manton sane at the moment, Doctor Mother and Fortuna will keep chugging along no matter what, and Hero isn't in need of our help (but I would like to talk to him soon)

After we take the time to talk to everyone we might want to schedule some time to have a good spar with ...fuck, names are hard -- all the powers guy. He'd probably like that, and we do need to occasionally practice throwing down at very high levels.

[X] Matthew. Last time you checked, he's still in New York helping rebuild after Symphony's riots. You could help him out before your shift starts, it's the least you can do.

Kingofbooks · Feb 25, 2019

[X] Matthew. Last time you checked, he's still in New York helping rebuild after Symphony's riots. You could help him out before your shift starts, it's the least you can do.

Shining Example (WORM ORIGIN QUEST)

[French]

S-s-smell the Prey, S-s-start the Hunt.

[French]

....What?

[French]

[French]

Verified simpleton

....What?

[French]

[French]

....What?

....What?