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A true hero... in training (Pokemon Gym Leader's apprentice quest)

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emberwing said:
so ability wise try to get him strong jaw? would fit thematically as well as mechanically. combined with guts it would make a great sweeper.
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Yeah, that's one of the ideas I had for him when planing the pokemon. I decided to not give him that ability from the start so you have to train it. But one of his paths is 100% fang and bite moves.
 
Some analysis.

Our goals in descending order:
1. Survive and keep our pokemon.
2. Rose survives as well.
3. Keep our memories.
4. Prevent the criminals' nefarious goals.
5. Make a citizen arrest.


The options:

Fighting:
If Flash helps, there is maybe a chance. If there's no help to come, there is no chance. Leads to either succeeding in all the goals (maybe not 5), or failing at all of them. Risky though.

Surrender:
Loses Maelstrom and the memories. Fails at all goals.

Flee:
Potentially leaves Rose behind. Probably succeeds in goals 1 and 3, depending on success. The safest option, especially if Kadabra isn't feeling up to chasing.

Diplomacy:
I'd guess that the Kadabra isn't on the side of the criminals totally against his own will, since he wouldn't have been politely called to aid otherwise. That said, there seems to be some schism between the Man and him.
Potential to successfully negotiate goals 1 and 2, I think. If Flash helps, maybe even 3.

Fighting is a bit too risky for me, so I'll go for diplomacy. The idea is that the Kadabra might be willing to avoid an unnecessary and uncertain fight with two mon (maybe three with Flash), if we agree to scram. Even if Rose didn't agree, she would have enough time to react properly, unlike if we just started running all of a sudden.

[X] DIPLOMACY. Talk to that Kadabra. He is smart and you might be able to convince him to NOT erase your memories.
 
[X] DIPLOMACY. Talk to that Kadabra. He is smart and you might be able to convince him to NOT erase your memories.


Let us hope Normalpoke is kind enough to help us against psychic intrusions.
 
Something that I just now realized. We likely have cavalry incoming. Not only does Violet know where we are, but that guy with the Burmy got away with his memories intact. So the cops may be on their way as well. If they do show up, we need to make sure to mention the device that the Galactics were apparently planting in the lake and wanted to keep secret to the point of memory tampering.
 
I really don't see a way for us to win against a Kadabra of that level. They usually are pretty strong pokemon, specifically this Kadabra has the rank advantage, we dont have a type advantage, we really don't have anything going for us on this match-up. We could maybe stall, but it seems Rose while winning isn't really in a position to help us any time soon.

Reinforcements may be coming but we really don't know, fighting will probably endanger us the most while giving a really slim chance of success, turning out backs against an enemy is a no-no.
Surrender... Lol.

With that being said,
[X] DIPLOMACY. Talk to that Kadabra. He is smart and you might be able to convince him to NOT erase your memories.

If we could get that Kadabra to see thing our way... That be truly a great accomplishment.
 
[X] DIPLOMACY. Talk to that Kadabra. He is smart and you might be able to convince him to NOT erase your memories.
 
Why are people voting diplomacy? Ya realize that it won't work right? It's not a 'secretly good Pokémon' or some Shonen cliche bullshit like that. It knows full well what it's doing and does so willingly.
 
[X] DIPLOMACY. Talk to that Kadabra. He is smart and you might be able to convince him to NOT erase your memories.

This wasn't in your job description, why bother? :whistle:
 
[X] DIPLOMACY. Talk to that Kadabra. He is smart and you might be able to convince him to NOT erase your memories.
 
[X] FIGHT. That Kadabra is really strong but this is still a two on one. You might be able to pull this off.
-[X] Maelstrom Aqua Jet the Kadabra.
-[X] Fang, Fire Fang the Rosalia!

This can only one of two ways, very well or very bad. Im down to find out which.
 
[X] DIPLOMACY. Talk to that Kadabra. He is smart and you might be able to convince him to NOT erase your memories.
-[X] Point out that the grunt has no idea how to use the Kadabra and in fact already let a witness escape. A witness that has called the police, while you called over a powerful friend before coming here as well. Then there's the the powerful Slowpoke that specialises in breaking down mental barriers just so it can do the theme song schtick. It might not get involved now, but when he tries to erases his trainer's memories? Their operation has already failed because of the grunt and erasing your memories of his loss only serves to protect his ego. Is that really worth the risk of getting captured?

Isn't this the second time this guy has screwed up? Your boss should get better henchman.

Edit: Added in the extra bit.
 
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[X] DIPLOMACY. Talk to that Kadabra. He is smart and you might be able to convince him to NOT erase your memories.
 
[X] DIPLOMACY. Talk to that Kadabra. He is smart and you might be able to convince him to NOT erase your memories.
-[X] Point out that the grunt has no idea how to use the Kadabra and in fact already let a witness escape. A witness that has called the police, while you called over a powerful friend before coming here as well. Then there's the the powerful Slowpoke that specialises in breaking down mental barriers just so it can do the theme song schtick. It might not get involved now, but when he tries to erases his trainer's memories? Their operation has already failed because of the grunt and erasing your memories of his loss only serves to protect his ego. Is that really worth the risk of getting captured?

Not so much a write-in for exact dialogue as some talking points, but they seem like a good idea. The Kadabra likely doesn't care about us or morals, but it presumably cares about itself. More so than a random grunt that isn't even his trainer. So let's use that. Tap into their anti-shonen.

Granted, I'd prefer a form of stalling that gives a better chance of the cavalary being on time to aprehend them, but I'll take not being turned into a vegtable without memories as a consolation prize.

Though, seeing how the Kadabra has stronger than average mental barriers, while Flash in an expert at overcoming all mental barriers, I like the idea of pointing out the theme song as a short cut to demonstrating that Flash actually is strong enough put up a fight. Just imagine this as an actually threatening question:

"Tell me, can you hear the theme song?"
 
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[X] DIPLOMACY. Talk to that Kadabra. He is smart and you might be able to convince him to NOT erase your memories.
-[X] Point out that the grunt has no idea how to use the Kadabra and in fact already let a witness escape. A witness that has called the police, while you called over a powerful friend before coming here as well. Then there's the the powerful Slowpoke that specialises in breaking down mental barriers just so it can do the theme song schtick. It might not get involved now, but when he tries to erases his trainer's memories? Their operation has already failed because of the grunt and erasing your memories of his loss only serves to protect his ego. Is that really worth the risk of getting captured?
 
[X] FIGHT. That Kadabra is really strong but this is still a two on one. You might be able to pull this off.
-[X] Maelstrom Aqua Jet the Kadabra.
-[X] Fang, Fire Fang the Rosalia!
 
[X] DIPLOMACY. Talk to that Kadabra. He is smart and you might be able to convince him to NOT erase your memories.
-[X] Point out that the grunt has no idea how to use the Kadabra and in fact already let a witness escape. A witness that has called the police, while you called over a powerful friend before coming here as well. Then there's the the powerful Slowpoke that specialises in breaking down mental barriers just so it can do the theme song schtick. It might not get involved now, but when he tries to erases his trainer's memories? Their operation has already failed because of the grunt and erasing your memories of his loss only serves to protect his ego. Is that really worth the risk of getting captured?
 
[X] FIGHT. That Kadabra is really strong but this is still a two on one. You might be able to pull this off.
-[X] Maelstrom Aqua Jet the Kadabra.
-[X] Fang, Fire Fang the Rosalia!

TempestK said:
Because at this point we're stalling.
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That's not going to stall. It's just going to be a five second 'should I? I should.' Thing at best before proceeding to memory wipe.

Edgedancer said:
how to use the Kadabra and in fact already let a witness escape. A witness that has called the police, while you called over a powerful friend before coming here as well. Then there's the the powerful Slowpoke that specialises in breaking down mental barriers just so it can do the theme song schtick. It might not get involved now, but when he tries to erases his trainer's memories? Their operation has already failed because of the grunt and erasing your memories of his loss only serves to protect his ego. Is that really worth the risk of getting captured?
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Except this is wrong. He's not doing it to protect his ego we saw shit. Shit the other guy might not have seen. And who knows how much we overheard? Also he won't hear the end of it from his partner and whoever leant him the psychic. So no, it's not for his ego.
 
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DarkKing98 said:
That's not going to stall. It's just going to be a five second 'should I? I should.' Thing at best before proceeding to memory wipe.


Except this is wrong. He's not doing it to protect his ego we saw shit. Shit the other guy might not have seen. And who knows how much we overheard? Also he won't hear the end of it from his partner and whoever leant him the psychic. So no, it's not for his ego.
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1) The ego point is less about the grunt's actual motives and more about the risk/reward factor to push the Kadabra towards thinking it's not worth it. If the grunt starts arguing about it, that's great actually. An argument is going to help us stall by wasting time and lead to the Kadabra beeing annoyed with the grunt, making it even less likely to listen to him.

2) It's a combination of fast talking/stalling/spooking it. That's to say pilling as many things on it as fast as we can in hope we can push his snap judgement in our favour. You don't tell the enemy about all the good reasons why he should be extra careful by capturing you, you try to distract him from them.

3) If it decides to capture us anyway, we default to fighting it, having lost nothing but the time we want to get rid off anyway. It already knows we're there, so there's no benefit in trying to rush it. It's one thing if you have a better idea for diplomancy, but unless you do there's no real benefit to not try it. Talking doesn't make the ability to fight later on go away.
 
Edgedancer said:
1) The ego point is less about the grunt's actual motives and more about the risk/reward factor to push the Kadabra towards thinking it's not worth it. If the grunt starts arguing about it, that's great actually. An argument is going to help us stall by wasting time and lead to the Kadabra beeing annoyed with the grunt, making it even less likely to listen to him.

2) It's a combination of fast talking/stalling/spooking it. That's to say pilling as many things on it as fast as we can in hope we can push his snap judgement in our favour. You don't tell the enemy about all the good reasons why he should be extra careful by capturing you, you try to distract him from them.

3) If it decides to capture us anyway, we default to fighting it, having lost nothing but the time we want to get rid off anyway. It already knows we're there, so there's no benefit in trying to rush it. It's one thing if you have a better idea for diplomancy, but unless you do there's no real benefit to not try it. Talking doesn't make the ability to fight later on go away.
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Ignoring all of that for a second can we just appreciate how lucky we are reinforcements are coming? We're fucked to hell no matter what we choose unless the fight rolls are like, 98 to 2 in our favor. Same for any diplomacy roll too.

Now onto the topic on hand.

Here's the thing. That's relying on the Kadabra to be a very stupid Kadabra. It has a job. To erase memories. And if it's owner learns it refused to do so because it didn't like the Grunt, well, who knows what punishment it'll get?

Problem with spooking it, and whilst I doubt being able to let's say we do, is that it might do a rash action and blasting us and our Pokémon with Psychic. It's not an exaggeration to say this thing will likely one shot us. It's two and two thirds ranks higher than Fang. Another whole rank on top of that over Maelstorm. I'm more comfortable being attacked by a calm psychic type than a panicked one.

If this quest has even a drop of reality influencing it, talking is not a free action, and it may not care about what we're babbling about and capture us in mid speech.
 
DarkKing98 said:
Ignoring all of that for a second can we just appreciate how lucky we are reinforcements are coming? We're fucked to hell no matter what we choose unless the fight rolls are like, 98 to 2 in our favor. Same for any diplomacy roll too.

Now onto the topic on hand.

Here's the thing. That's relying on the Kadabra to be a very stupid Kadabra. It has a job. To erase memories. And if it's owner learns it refused to do so because it didn't like the Grunt, well, who knows what punishment it'll get?

Problem with spooking it, and whilst I doubt being able to let's say we do, is that it might do a rash action and blasting us and our Pokémon with Psychic. It's not an exaggeration to say this thing will likely one shot us. It's two and two thirds ranks higher than Fang. Another whole rank on top of that over Maelstorm. I'm more comfortable being attacked by a calm psychic type than a panicked one.

If this quest has even a drop of reality influencing it, talking is not a free action, and it may not care about what we're babbling about and capture us in mid speech.
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I don't like our odds either, but I still don't see how any of those points make attacking it the better first strategy. If it can one~two shot us (and it probably can), then it will one~two shut us the moment the battle begins. It doesn't exactly have a reason to go easy on us.

Similarly, if capturing our mind is so easy for it that it can do it mid-sentence without any way for us to tell or react, then it will simply do so and we're again done for.

Your points basically boil down to how horribly out matched we are. Except I don't see how being horribly outmatched is a good argument for starting a direct fight ourself. Because that way we'll definetly lose and our only hope is the cavalery arriving in time, in which case whatever we do doesn't matter anyway.
 
[X] DIPLOMACY. Talk to that Kadabra. He is smart and you might be able to convince him to NOT erase your memories.
-[X] Point out that the grunt has no idea how to use the Kadabra and in fact already let a witness escape. A witness that has called the police, while you called over a powerful friend before coming here as well. Then there's the the powerful Slowpoke that specialises in breaking down mental barriers just so it can do the theme song schtick. It might not get involved now, but when he tries to erases his trainer's memories? Their operation has already failed because of the grunt and erasing your memories of his loss only serves to protect his ego. Is that really worth the risk of getting captured?
 
Edgedancer said:
Similarly, if capturing our mind is so easy for it that it can do it mid-sentence without any way for us to tell or react, then it will simply do so and we're again done for.
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Memory erasure takes time. Pinning us down with an attack though? Much quicker.

Edgedancer said:
Your points basically boil down to how horribly out matched we are. Except I don't see how being horribly outmatched is a good argument for starting a direct fight ourself. Because that way we'll definetly lose and our only hope is the cavalery arriving in time, in which case whatever we do doesn't matter anyway.
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My points are we're horribly outmatched AND it has literally no reason to even listen to a single word we say. Diplomacy could just be us getting three words out and then getting pinned down by Psychic.

Honestly Battle is our best option because it will distract it from mind wiping us in a way something as easily ignorable as words can't.
 
[X] DIPLOMACY. Talk to that Kadabra. He is smart and you might be able to convince him to NOT erase your memories.

I want to mention the singer who is trapped in their contract and that they were going to take Maelstrom. I'm also wondering if Lily can reverse the memory wipe. ​
 
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