- Location
- United States
As far as I'm concerned, everywhere is our future empire.
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Tales of History - A Civ-Builder Quest
- Thread starter Azel
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- ?????????
Satar
Xetares, Third Redeemer; World Drinker
- Location
- Sesh
Hmm...then:
[X] Plan Bend Thy Knee
[X] Accept the deal. Instead of raiding Brushcrest, the Valley People will march with them against the People of Makar.
-[X] Brushcrest will bend the knee and become a tributary of the Valley Peoples. A tributary payment will be sent every turn from Brushcrest to the Valley, with exact terms to be negotiated later. In return their chieftain and council will gain the right to represent themselves before the Council of Three, but not a voice in the succession, and the other rights expected will be withheld. Though, should Brushcrest ever become a village of the Valley Peoples, said rights will be accorded.
-[X] Brushcrest will give up the right to make major deals (alliances, etc) with foreign powers without Council approval, though smaller things like trade deals are fine.
-[X] Brushcrest will allow the Speaker and Bone tenders to preach freely in Brushcrest, and will see to it that no harm will come to them.
-[X] Brushcrest will share of their (not-religious) knowledge freely and without reservation.
-[X] Brushcrest will be allowed to maintain its faith but Water Maidens and that water faith will not be allowed to preach outside Brushcrest and its outlying villages. Attempting to preach to the Valley People, White Clans, or other parties without the express permission of the Bone-Tenders and Council of Three will be considered an act of violation, and punishable by execution of both the offender and close family.
-[X] Members of the water faith will not be allowed to settle in the Valley or amongst the White Clans.
-[X] In return Brushcrest will be under the protection of the Valley People, and the Valley People will see to it that they are not destroyed.
I am not willing to accept anything less than this. In fact, they're in a really desperate situation and know it. I doubt their ability to defeat the People of Makar let alone win a two front war. Basically, we have them where we want them and if they aren't willing to accept, balls, we'll destroy them and teach the People of Makar that we too can feed the fields with blood and slaughter.
See above.
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- Location
- Derna
Nah. Nobody's going to convert to some weird spirits religion when their dad's skull is in the Halls. And if we're letting them poke around, our people aren't going to get murderous out of nowhere. FoB seems pretty accepting, actually.
Doubt Brushcrest would know; sea raiders don't stick around.
[] Accept the deal. Instead of raiding Brushcrest, the Valley People will march with them against the People of Makar.
-[] Brushcrest will become a tributary of Greenvalley, providing a (fairly small) amount of goods, shells and lumber every (actual time and numbers unimportant, just hashing out.)
-[] Brushcrest will allow Greenvalley fishers and traders access to the seas, using their boats. (Not important now but later!)
-[] Brushcrest will allow Bone-Tenders to preach in their lands and collect remains. In exchange, a small number of Water Maidens will be allowed to preach in Greenvalley, but must stay close to the river under supervision.
Thoughts?
oh man i stop checking new messages because spam and someone ninja's with a plan. my thoughts in one sec.
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- Location
- Germany
He isn't the best person to explain this, but at the core, they believe that every river and the sea have a spirit that guides the waters and all within. Offers and prayers get you plenty of fish and good currents for travel, scorning them gets you drowned.
Makar the Conqueror
Allegedly, he was their first chieftain and made his people in his image by taking the strongest and culling the rest. His followers also claim he has murdered or enslaved the river-spirits, though Broken-Shell is even more iffy on their faith then on his own.
As in how many pops? According to the tales, they clogged the rivers with their boats, blotted out the sun with their arrows and trampled down entire villages. Which is probably greatly exaggerated in his opinion, for hunter love their boasting, but given the amount of villages they wrecked, it's still safe to say that there were many of them.
- Location
- United States
If we do accept the deal, we can impose quite a few conditions.
Exposing them to the faith of bones while keeping away the spirit worship
Getting paid in luxury goods and technology
They never build another village like that ever again
They improve our maps
etc.
@Satar, you're pushing too far. That deal will never be accepted by anyone sane. They're not going to accept becoming subordinates right away, we need to dominate them culturally first.
Exposing them to the faith of bones while keeping away the spirit worship
Getting paid in luxury goods and technology
They never build another village like that ever again
They improve our maps
etc.
@Satar, you're pushing too far. That deal will never be accepted by anyone sane. They're not going to accept becoming subordinates right away, we need to dominate them culturally first.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
- Location
- ?????????
Oh so a form of Ancestor worship hmm I suppose we can fold their religion into ours. Makar... that's a pretty sick name
- Location
- United States
Right. I'm not voting for that.
- Location
- Germany
They are pretty clear that he was a god, not a man, though there are a few who claim to be his descendants.
Satar
Xetares, Third Redeemer; World Drinker
- Location
- Sesh
They don't have a choice. On one end is the horde that "blots out the stars" and the other end is our 5-pop raiding army. We're negotiating when we could just take everything from them and giving them our protection and even a voice in our Council. I'm sure they understand what desperate straits they are in, and how we take, in the end, very little from them if you look past the stuff re: religion.
Is 0.5 units of Lumber and 0.3 of Luxury (Seashells) really worth their survival? I know they'll make the right decision or we'll make it for them.
They have a five pop army barreling at them from the north, and a six-seven pop army from the south, we can afford to be ambitious with our terms.
Worst that'll happen is that they counter-offer and we hash something out.
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- Location
- ?????????
I really wouldn't mind them being slaughtered but food and tech so I am kind of on the fence.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
[] Plan War Tribute
-[] Accept the deal. Instead of raiding Brushcrest, the Valley People will march with them against the People of Makar.
--[] Brushcrest will supply The Valley with Food in exchange for their services
--[] Brushcrest will allow Speaker to preach in their village
--[] The Valley will allow the Maidens access to the Valley.
-[] Accept the deal. Instead of raiding Brushcrest, the Valley People will march with them against the People of Makar.
--[] Brushcrest will supply The Valley with Food in exchange for their services
--[] Brushcrest will allow Speaker to preach in their village
--[] The Valley will allow the Maidens access to the Valley.
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Satar
Xetares, Third Redeemer; World Drinker
- Location
- Sesh
This will cause massive civil strife, if not undermine our government. Remember, mandate is legitimized by our faith. If a proportion of our population doesn't believe in the Faith of Bones anymore, then they'll form their own faction and we'll slide into anarchy and civil war.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Our culture is EXTREMELY resistant to conversion, these are not Heroes coming to preach but regular people. We will convert more than they convert us and then we slowly assimilate them. And then Any if there are any pockets of conversion will fall back in line.
Remember that he mentioned they already have a bunch of allies. The reason they want us is so that we can help purge this tribe entirely, not just fight it off, or at least that is how it seemed to me. They technically do not 100% need us for survival.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
Or we could just take them outright via war.
- Location
- Germany
No food trade until Pottery.
Not quite. The Mandate is tied to your faith, but alterations to your peoples belives do not automatically mean a rejection of the Mandate.
- Location
- Derna
going full Serbian Ultimatum I see
Acceptable.
They might accept this, but probably not. They are a trading and diplomatic power, after all.
Acceptable.
Whoaaaaa. There is no way in hell they would accept this. Execution of both the offender and close family? You really are going full Serbian situation here.
Acceptable.
Duh.
[X] Plan Jolly Cooperation
[X] Accept the deal. Instead of raiding Brushcrest, the Valley People will march with them against the people of Makar.
-[X] Brushcrest will bend the knee and become a tributary of the Valley Peoples. A tributary payment will be sent every turn from Brushcrest to the Valley, with exact terms to be negotiated later. In return their chieftain and council will gain the right to represent themselves before the Council of Three, but not a voice in the succession, and the other rights expected will be withheld. Though, should Brushcrest ever become a village of the Valley Peoples, said rights will be accorded.
-[X] Brushcrest will give up the right to make alliances, declare war or raid other powers without Council approval, but smaller things are fine. Current alliances will be respected unless broken.
-[X] Brushcrest will allow the Speaker and Bone tenders to preach freely in Brushcrest, and will see to it that no harm will come to them.
-[X] The Water Maidens will not be allowed to preach in Greenvalley or to the Clans. They may send expeditions up the Gentle River, but they must not set foot on Greenvalley soil under penalty of summary execution. They may, however, request help from river dwellers if necessary.
-[X] Members of the water faith will not be allowed to settle in the Valley or amongst the Clans.
-[X] Brushcrest will not build north into the lands of the Valley People, or attempt to block passage down the river. They may expand east or west or try to cross the seas, if they wish.
-[X] In return Brushcrest will be under the protection of the Valley People, and the Valley People will see to it that they are not destroyed.
-[X] Explain that they are asking us to turn from an enemy to an ally on basically nothing but their word. Tribute might seem a steep cost, but the benefits will be worth it; no more raiding from all sides, destroying their every effort. Without raiding taking its toll, they should easily be able to pay tribute and continue to grow. A few shells is a cheap price for safety.
I edited it a bit so we're not completely taking their sovereignty, just the bits they don't care about. We can easily find an excuse to break their alliance network whenever we want. You really want an excuse to keep raiding these guys, but I'd much rather go after the river raiders to be honest. By making Brushcrest a tributary and defeating the main threat in the area, we'll make ourselves regional hegemon. We can continue to spread with soft power and look for shiny rocks in the mountains. Turning inward for a little bit might be good honestly.
Also, I want to see what kind of loopholes the Maidens come up with. Eventually we're gonna get a short story with someone carrying a Maiden through Greenvalley on their shoulders because their boat capsized. It won't be enough to actually preach or anything. Executing their whole families is pointlessly harsh. Not "exerting our power" harsh, just "making martyrs and looking dumb" harsh.
edit: added no raiding, they won't care but don't want these dumbos starting a war unless we want it
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- Location
- Germany
Depends on the deal you hash out. If no clear time limit is given, the deal is assumed to be in perpetuity.
Though Broken-Shell is only asking for a one-time military cooperation here.
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
Trying to merge a polity with about the same population size as us that is rather far away, without food transportation? There are easier ways to starve our own population.
- Location
- ?????????
[X] Plan Jolly Cooperation
I like this and if they don't accept then raids are a coming I guess
I like this and if they don't accept then raids are a coming I guess
- Location
- Leicester UK
-[X] Accept the deal. Instead of raiding Brushcrest, the Valley People will march with them against the People of Makar.
--[X] Brushcrest will supply The Valley with Food in exchange for their services
--[X] Brushcrest will allow Speaker to preach in their village
--[X] The Valley will allow the Maidens access to the Valley.
Our reigion is far too embedded into our culture and society to be displaced and if another religion did take hold subjegation lets us deal with it immediately, the chance of a religious minority managing to appear is almost non existent right now.
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