Tales of History - A Civ-Builder Quest
- Thread starter Azel
- Start date
- Original
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
There is literally no reason to assume they are going to demand anything more than is reasonable. Theres no point to being massive breachers of basic rules. This will set a precedence of doing stupid things. The only reason this isn't completely stupid is because were still at the point where noone really knows anyone.
There is literally no reason to assume they are not going to ambush us.
There is literally no reason to assume they not will be recover faster than us.
Irrelevant if we will destroy them.
- Location
- United States
I think you're vastly overestimating our strength here. We are outnumbered. Even if we succeed in killing their leaders, we will not kill all of them. Not by a longshot. They'll flee and spread the word of what we're willing to stoop to, poisoning our diplomacy for generations. The Goat People, anyone else who wanders in, if they find the survivors they will learn of what happened.
Continuing fighting at all will see us killed. This isn't a "if I just kill the inner circle we win" scenario, this is a "I can either try for peace or assure our mutual destruction" scenario. Yes. They're close to breaking. So are we. Our hunters are gone. If you pursue this further then we'll all see the tribe die.
The only reason we haven't yet splintered is because of Perseverance. Don't mistake that for a sign of actual stability.
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Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Or we fail to destroy them and we die, or we fail to destroy them and beat us consuming us. Or it was a double trick and nothing happens and we die.
And so, one more push, just one more push. Which we can make now.
Most of our hunters our gone but Snow-fox remains. I have full faith that our Great Hunter will be able to deal with setting up an ambush against a small number of people. If there are more, they prove their attentions of browbeating us into submission or killing our own diplomatic party. I'd personally rather have our tribe die than be thralls to cannibals.
- Location
- United States
I don't know why you think that this is surrender. This is parlay, simply negotiating a ceasefire. We're not trying to become thralls of the cannibals.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
I'd rather die than break one of the big rules of ancient times for no good reason.
- Location
- United States
No. If we prosecute this war further at all we cross a point of no return, and sustain too many losses to reasonable recover. We've already sustained massive losses, and even with a Winter Hero, if we fight we'll get still more losses. Except that this time the ones killed are the children who've been picking up the slack and joining the warbands. Bam. Loss of the future generation. Loss of even more adults so we get fewer future babies. We are on our last legs here.
The ambush that you're pushing for, even if it's wildly successful and sees the White Clans shattered utterly, will kill us in the end. We are in no state to continue fighting. If you have any goal to survive long enough to at least see the next winter, then this isn't the way to do it.
But i doubt we will have such luck in next time. Once recovered, with superior numbers they will crush us. So, we will very likely lost round two.
- Location
- United States
It's not that we don't want to go Nazi on them. They're freaking cannibals who were hunting us for food.
I just realize that we are well beyond the point where we should have stopped fighting. I'm genuinely worried that even if a ceasefire is reached we won't have enough people for a self-sustaining population.
Satar
Xetares, Third Redeemer; World Drinker
- Location
- Sesh
But, effectively, won't that be what happens? There are more Snow People than us. They know the area better than we do. They sometimes eat people alive. They aren't above mutilating the dead or using the dead as bait.
Imagine we arrive at a ceasefire (they don't ambush us or nothing). The Snow people recover faster than we do. A period of harsh weather follows, and our hunters disperse to try and catch some food. Snow Fox would be old and dead in this hypothetical future scenario. They might have a hero, they might not. Our hunters start going missing. The Snow People can not only feed themselves (by eating our hunters) but also deny our resource-gathering, a two-for-one. By the time they come in force, we'd be starving, easy prey.
I understand your concern. Our tribe is badly overstretched, and our hunters few. But fighting a pitched battle is different from ambushing a helpless people. Think about it: our hunters fall upon them, we get Snow Fox's bonus, and without their leadership they are permanently done in for.
But I get that you think it's an excessive risk and I do see why.
100% agree with your point above.
Let's just please not use inflammatory terms like 'Nazi', though, it'll tar a pragmatic debate with unnecessary and inapplicable dross.
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Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Still better than just losing straight out, taking them with us isn't the good option, its the least fun option. Being assimilated is the least worse outcome, with the exception that we get lucky.
- Location
- Earth
[X] Accept the proposal. The council will go to the peace talks.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Thats not a counter argument, if you don't have one, don't post.
Being Assimilated means in all likely hood we gain control as players over their Tribe or just lose which doesn't change anything
- Location
- United States
Yes, but at the same time we'd be alive to do something about it. If we are drawn into conflict now we will break, either through losing too many people and/or instability from sustained intertribal conflict. Also... we mutilated their dead right back? We can be outraged at the cannibalism, but it feels hypocritical to hate them for desecration of the dead when we actually outdid them at a few points.
Unless there's a plan that immediately guarantees utter victory with minimal loss, then it's too much. I wasn't exaggerating when I said we're about to break. Even with Snow Fox's bonus, that's just too much immediate risk for me.
Hey, I'm was just responding in kind.
EDIT: You have to know when to stop. Even if it's just for a year, we need peace. We need to be able to have our hunters (and have them ALIVE for this) to freely hunt for food without fear of running into an enemy warband.
We will starve in the last month if we don't stop fighting, if we don't sustain too many losses and fracture outright.
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But we can get rid of this cannibals and make world slightly better place. And this will make change.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
And most likely die in the process and the game ends and it doesn't matter.
But, if strike now we actually have solid chance destroy them and not die in process. And even in worst case, it actually matter how game ends.
And that Rule i break by this, in your opinion?
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
We have literally No hunters left, thats our MILITARY, the only one left is our hero. And were hoping that the rolls go our way and they break rather than frenzy and end us or that we succeed in killing them.
What did you say?
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- Location
- United States
Basically this.
We now have children on the front lines. With each further death we get closer to Game Over.