If you don't mind, could you explain more about 'winning' this arc and what you think it entails? (Or should entail.) I ask because ... well, Flan has some goals, but nothing really solidly connected to just this arc - there aren't concrete objectives in place to aim for. And based on what I know of what's going on in this arc (spoiler: Not all that much, really :p ) ... I really can't think of a 'win condition.' There are ways to lose, I suppose - somehow getting Satsuki or Lutecia killed, for example, or doing something to make Lutecia not be friends with Flan anymore - but I'm drawing a blank on winning.

So ... I mean, you've said you're unhappy about the arc, you've tied it to 'winning' the arc, and you've said you spoke up to get a more enjoyable result. I can infer from some of your statements that you'd like to get along better with the Numbers, but that's a troubled road just because of history and personality conflicts, and I'm not sure if you're adding them to the 'win counter' because they're a current focus point or because it's something you are really rooting for.
Sorry for late reply. I avoided looking at the thread for a while as it seemed like my comments were only upsetting other readers.

Once again you hit the nail on the head: there ISN'T much of a win condition visible in this arc. That's the frustrating part! We have lots of things to try to avoid doing, relatively little to strive for directly, and that combination is what leads to this hopeless feeling of spinning our wheels. This whole arc feels like were just being given a handful of opportunities to fuck up, and few if any opportunities to accomplish much positive. As I cannot see much potential positive result from any given choice, and many choices are likely to be negative (obviously or subtly), I have little impetus to vote.

Once again, I have to iterate, you're doing a great job of depicting the situation realistically - you can't win 'em all, as they say. The Numbers situation doesn't look like (and has no obligation to be) a winnable situation. However, to answer your question, 'winning' the arc would more or less involve Flan coming out of it net positive. Socially, personally, magically, or even indirectly (via Sacchin), if she can feel happy/proud/satisfied with whatever she accomplished or gained (for herself or her subordinate or her friends), then it's all good. As it stands, to myself as a player, we have seen little to no opportunity to accomplish much for ourselves at all. Getting the piano and the cooking were just . . . minor actions, overall. Anything we could accomplish outside the context of Midchilda/Nanoha-verse isn't particularly relevant, and what little we have touched on so far that IS, is limited to the Numbers and, well, our device and Ginga. And we keep making Ginga uncomfortable, regardless of her professionalism about it.

It feels like 90% of all the people we are interacting with are either neutral to us or want nothing to do with us, and that gets grating from a gaming perspective.

Now, it is perfectly possible that there have been choices we have either missed (or failed to even reveal) that might have accounted for this, however this quest tends to not make the consequences of various choices super obvious (not that it has any obligation to, I am just stating a fact).

Overall, it just feels that we are getting very little opportunity to improve Flan's mental health and happiness this arc, and the small things she is trying to accomplish seem like they are just placeholders, without the looming shadow of a greater situation, mission, or threat. Meanwhile, her patience continues to erode, and as she gets more irritated, fewer and fewer options will be likely to stay peaceful . . .

Yeah, it just feels like this arc is a slippery slope, with no visible potential rewards to mitigate the numerous risks.
 
[X] Leave Loki alone and see what happens.

[X] Return to the party.
-[X] Talk to someone.
-[X] Fate. She didn't meet Satsuki before, no? So time to introduce her! Or get Satsuki to introduce herself. Maybe she'll be less reserved once the ice is broken?
 
[X] Leave Loki alone and see what happens.

[X] Return to the party.
-[X] Talk to someone.
-[X] Fate. She didn't meet Satsuki before, no? So time to introduce her! Or get Satsuki to introduce herself. Maybe she'll be less reserved once the ice is broken?

It'd be rude to ask for a replacement for Loki, both to Juliet and to Loki itself.
And I think it'll become something more suited for Flandre if we let it run it's course without forcing it or trying to fix it; heck, 'fixing' it is likely to do more harm than good.
 
Sacchin, don't lie, you just like being an adorable me~i~do.

Also, Fate is showcasing her Nana Mizuki chops, I see. A shame we didn't get to go pick a fight in Symphogear Land; that could have been fun.

[X] Leave Loki alone and see what happens.
-[X] Ask Juliet if she could maybe run those more detailed tests to see what's going on.

[X] Return to the party.
-[X] Talk to someone.
-[X] Fate. She didn't meet Satsuki before, no? So time to introduce her! Or get Satsuki to introduce herself. Maybe she'll be less reserved once the ice is broken?

I'm curious about what's happening with Loki. It'd be good to know more before we proceed though.
 

[X] Leave Loki alone and see what happens.

[X] Return to the party.
-[X] Talk to someone.
-[X] Fate. She didn't meet Satsuki before, no? So time to introduce her! Or get Satsuki to introduce herself. Maybe she'll be less reserved once the ice is broken?
Just to be sure, I'll say it again; Remilia empowered/changed Loki in one of the previous chapters. I don't remember which one, But something did happen.​
 
@Golden Lark
A day or two isn't 'late,' so don't worry on that account - this is a forum, not a chatbox, it's perfectly reasonable to take a day or two off to sort things out, and some things benefit much more from a little break than they do from an immediate response. And thank you for taking the time to reply.

There are a few things I want to say about your thoughts, but I'm not sure how well I can actually articulate my thoughts, so if this post seems haphazard and disorganized, that's why.

First is the general idea of 'no win condition.' Broadly, the main reason for that feeling that I can think of is that Flan doesn't have anything to do. This isn't particularly helped by my not being sure whether Flan is going to go on missions or if she's going to try and teach cadets; the latter would have a more obvious 'end-game win condition' to look for, where Flan's ability to teach and the success rate of her charges can be looked at and given more of a 'win or not' grade. The former, due to being a set of discrete events, has less of a long-term win condition and more a series of lesser win conditions, the success or failure of which will determine how Flan views her time as being spent. And with both, actual 'mission success' is not necessarily the same thing as being successful in Flan's eyes - if Flan got a mission to take out some mage causing problems and got her completely wrecked, that might be a 'mission failed,' but it wouldn't necessarily be something that would make Flan unhappy to have experienced. Likewise, what Flan teaches cadets might not be something that the Bureau is particularly happy with, but if they learn what she teaches well, she'll be happier.

Or, to put it in terms of an event that has already occurred - due to Flan choosing the hospital overwatch mission, Fate was injured, so despite Flan's success in her mission, it could be argued that that sub-arc was a net negative. On the other hand, what Flan sees is that she was able to personally protect her friend, and because they were nearby, she was later able to complete the additional goal of inviting Lutecia and her family to Gensokyo; that Fate was hurt isn't something Flan views as affecting her performance, because that's Fate's problem.

As far as what Flan's already done to add to the positives of this general win condition - there's the mission and inviting Lutecia, acquiring the piano (which she intends to give to Lutecia when it's time to go back to Gensokyo), and the ongoing education of Satsuki. The negatives ... well, here's where the in-character vs player-perception problem really crops up, because I'm not sure Flan really has anything that she would deem a 'negative.' As mentioned, Fate's injury is on her as far as Flan is concerned. She is not personally very concerned with the Numbers; her irritation with Wendi came from Wendi's back-and-forth about how she felt about Flan's presence, and then her use of the word 'crazy' (and remember that way back in Mitakihara, Flan did worse to Agito with less provocation). Again, unless you guys somehow manage to critically undermine Flan's position and lose Satsuki and/or Lutecia, there isn't much that can really go wrong.

Which, I guess, is a good place to move to a similar topic. Calling this a 'filler arc' is something that I would disagree with, but I can also understand it - apart from her particular wants, Flan doesn't currently have a big reason to be here, and for the major payoff is going to happen when the people she invites finally get to come to Gensokyo. From a gaming perspective, it probably feels like a (probably long and annoying) sidequest with no immediately apparent rewards to justify it ... something like the Obel Lake Quest, I think. With that in mind, doing missions will be faster than trying to be a teacher.

And now I'm getting confused about what my main thrust is. :/ So that said ...
Now, it is perfectly possible that there have been choices we have either missed (or failed to even reveal) that might have accounted for this, however this quest tends to not make the consequences of various choices super obvious (not that it has any obligation to, I am just stating a fact).
Yeah, that's a big reason this quest stars Flan and not Patchouli or Remilia. Because (apart from the serious advantage that their magic gives them that I removed from Flan) either one of them would be able to think out the pros and cons of each choice much better than I can articulate them. I don't usually have an explicit 'exactly this will happen if thread votes X,' in part to allow for write-ins and sudden changes I hadn't planned on, but they would at least be able to go, 'Taking missions is more likely to help the Bureau long-term, because I can take some of the strain off their heavy hitters by taking missions they're less qualified for, and by opening up some breathing space I can possibly let them get really secure by finding the locations of any enemies who are supplying all the little fish who are attacking. On the other hand, being an instructor lets me inculcate my morals and values into the system, which the Bureau might not want but which would be interesting long-term and I think would be funny, and I could still probably fight/spar with off-duty or recovering officers.' Flandre just doesn't think things through like that - she focuses on the immediate aspects of a choice (missions = fighting, which is fun and good; teaching = talking and boring, but Ilya thinks I'm good at it). (Some of the consequences of a relatively major choice might be in this paragraph :hug: )
 
Meanwhile Flandre mostly does things because it makes people she likes happy, or indulges her desires and hobbies. She's been getting better, IMO, by expanding the pool of people she likes, thus allowing her to better emulate humanity.
 
Votes are not locked.


EDIT: Votes are locked.
Adhoc vote count started by Entropy Judge on Apr 29, 2018 at 12:33 PM, finished with 11208 posts and 6 votes.

  • [X] Leave Loki alone and see what happens.
    [X] Return to the party.
    -[X] Talk to someone.
    -[X] Fate. She didn't meet Satsuki before, no? So time to introduce her! Or get Satsuki to introduce herself. Maybe she'll be less reserved once the ice is broken?
    [X] Ask Juliet if she can accelerate the process in any way ….
    -[X] And if it would be at all possible to get another Device, pretty please?
    [X] Leave Loki alone and see what happens.
    -[X] Ask Juliet if she could maybe run those more detailed tests to see what's going on.
    [X] Return to the party.
    -[X] Talk to someone.
    -[X] Fate. She didn't meet Satsuki before, no? So time to introduce her! Or get Satsuki to introduce herself. Maybe she'll be less reserved once the ice is broken?
 
Last edited:
Fate's Party II
[X] Leave Loki alone and see what happens.
[X] Return to the party.
- [X] Talk to someone.
- [X] Fate. She didn't meet Satsuki before, no? So time to introduce her! Or get Satsuki to introduce herself. Maybe she'll be less reserved once the ice is broken?


On the other hand … if Loki is turning into a Unison Device, it won't be able to do anything to you because you're so much stronger. Worst case scenario, you'll have to destroy it because it tries to fight you. "Hmm … there isn't anything wrong with just leaving it, right?" Both Shari and Juliet stare at you for a moment, but then Juliet turns thoughtful.

"… I guess not. I mean, I'll want to run a few more tests to make sure core functionality hasn't changed and there aren't any additions, and I'll definitely need to put some monitoring programs in to keep track of any changes, but if you're fine with it, I guess I can leave it alone." She grins and winks at you. "See, Flan, this is why I like you! Never a dull moment, and always new things to study." You smile back and bow to the screen. Next to you, Shari looks back and forth between you and Juliet

"Should I come by sometime to pick up Loki?" She shakes her head.

"I'll have it delivered, don't worry - worst case, I can bring it over myself. Tomorrow or the day after." Shari stomps her foot and glares at Juliet.

"Meister Sabiu! You don't know what will happen!" Juliet nods excitedly.

"I know! That's what makes it fun and interesting. Something is happening, something strange and new, and I get to watch it - second-hand, of course, but then, sometimes that's better." Shari works her mouth uselessly for a few moments, and Juliet makes a shooing gesture at you. "Go on, I'll keep the dreaded shopkeeper of Riot Force 6 at bay while you make your escape." Juliet's grin widens as Shari shakes angrily, but you frown at her and cross your arms.

"Don't be mean to Shari, Juliet. She's helped me a lot, too." Juliet's grin falters and she raises her eyebrows, then raises her hands in mock-surrender.

"Alright, Flan, alright. I'll get your Device to you sometime in the next day or so. See you." She waves and you manage to return it before she ends the communication. Shari takes a deep breath and shakes her head. You stand to the side, waiting for her to recover.

"… Thank you, Flandre. I'm fine." She's definitely calmer, and she smiles at you and waves back toward the dining area. "Go on, I'm just going to check on a few other things before heading back." You nod.

"Oka~ay. Take care." You wave carelessly and hop past her, walking at a normal pace; Carim really did leave your table right after you left, and a clone already moved your food away, so you aren't in a rush.

"Umm … Flandre-sama? Do you think Shari-san is really okay?" You glance at Satsuki before nodding briefly.

"Mm. I think she just got annoyed at Juliet being dismissive of her talents and wants to make sure she's actually calmed down before going back to the party." Your servant nods and follows you silently as you head into the dining area and toward the balcony. Again, Satsuki gets more stares than you do, and when you get outside you take a moment to study the night sky - and take a surreptitious glance at your servant while you're at it. She's managing to keep the blush from covering her entire face, but she must be wishing she'd chosen something else to wear. And until she gets used to the idea that she's actually superior to nearly every single human here, your advice won't be worth much to her.

Fate is still sitting with her mother and Nanoha, and a few more people you don't recognize, but when it becomes apparent that you're moving to meet with her, Alph slips away from her side to intercept you. "What do you want to talk to Fate about?" She can't exactly speak too loudly, not without being heard by people, so she's limited in the amount of hostility she can present - especially at a party - but she isn't particularly subtle about not wanting you to talk to her master. You shrug and gesture at Satsuki.

"I'd like to introduce Satsuki to her, since I don't think they've properly met." Alph's glower transfers from you to your servant, and part of you can't help but wonder if Satsuki is staring at the familiar's ears and tail. She really shouldn't be - it's quite rude and she's been around stranger things - but you can't help wanting to check to make sure she isn't. And none of your clones are outside right now …. Alph huffs and glares at you. And what she can't see is that behind her, Fate is watching your conversation. "Actually, if you don't mind and we all have some time, would you be able to help coach her with fighting?" Satsuki meeps adorably and Alph's glare turns into a shocked look of confusion. "A practice partner would help her a lot, and Ginga said it wouldn't be possible to get Nove permission to fight, even for sparring, but your name came up, especially since it seemed like you'll be staying with Fate for a while. Of course, if Fate would rather you keep out of trouble, I understand." The familiar grimaces and briefly covers her eyes with her hand.

"Listen, you -"

"Alph, is something wrong?" The familiar's shoulders hike up at the admiral's question - she hadn't even noticed her approach, and when she turns to look at her she finally notices Fate's attention.

"Ah, n-no, of course not! I just wanted to make sure Fate had enough time to finish her conversation." You smile charmingly at Lindy; you don't need to say anything, not if this overprotectiveness is as known a trait as it seems to be by the admiral's own expression. She pats Alph on the head and smiles.

"Well, Fate is done now, so you can relax. Go on, Flandre." You bow politely and slip past them, making sure that Satsuki is following you before you walk up to Fate and plop into one of the open chairs.

"Hello, Flandre. I hope Alph wasn't giving you any trouble." You shake your head and smile back at them.

"No, nothing happened." Nanoha stifles a chuckle and Fate sighs. "Anyway, I don't think I introduced you and Satsuki to each other when we got here." You glance meaningfully at Satsuki and she nods before dipping into a barely-passable curtsy.

"Um, g-good evening, F-Fate-san -" She stiffens and stops talking entirely when Fate raises a calming hand.

"It's alright. Why don't you sit down?" Satsuki goes pale, and to prevent any further disruptions you simply pull her onto you, across your lap, and hug her waist to keep her from moving. Fate and Nanoha both stare, shocked, and Satuski's squeaks sound exactly like an adorable animal's.

"I'm sorry. She's my servant, at least for now, but she's young and inexperienced, so she gets nervous easily." Satsuki stammers unintelligibly and you sigh. You'd hoped she would get less reserved if you let her have her head, but maybe you should have warned her first? Nanoha smiles disarmingly and holds out a hand.

"Well, if you need a moment to calm down before talking to Fate-chan, why not come with me, just to the railing over there, hm? You can catch your breath, and the ocean is very pretty at night." You loosen your arms, signaling to Satsuki that she can go with Nanoha if she wants, and after a moment she reaches her hand out to take Nanoha's. Fate smiles as they leave.

"Nanoha is quite good with people. Ah … you said she was your servant?" Her tone changes, from almost pure gentleness to one of concern, and you nod.

"Yes. Someone turned her into a vampire, and the person who helped her survive the first few months seems to have been trying to change her back, or at least keep her from progressing. When I came across her, she was pretty lost. So I'm teaching her how to be and to survive until she can stand on her own, and she's working as my servant. … Well, she will once she actually learns everything she'll need to do. She's not really any older than she looks, so she really doesn't know much." Fate nods slowly, and in the kitchen your clones help Lindy and Alph get the cake ready. Well, you can be a wonderful distraction for a few more minutes. "I told her about this and said she could wear whatever she wanted; she said she'd stay with the uniform because it would make it clear that she's here with me. I think she's getting more attention wearing it than she would if she wore something more normal." Fate smiles and nods again.

"Yes, probably." She watches Nanoha and Satsuki, and you take the opportunity to study her a bit more closely than you usually do. She doesn't look particularly tired or hurt, and she's not wearing anything bulky or baggy that would cover up large bandages, so she probably is fine … and maybe chafing at everyone's coddling of her. Of course, they won't be able to be near her for a while, apparently - they all have jobs to do - so they're probably trying to make sure she gets the best rest and down-time she can, so when they leave they can be sure that she's in the best shape she can be in.

"… So, are they letting you keep your Device?" She scowls and nods.

"Yes. But it's got a heavy limiter on it, and while I can deactivate it whenever I need to, it does get logged and if I use it frivolously then Lindy will talk to me about it." Her expression softens and she shakes her head. "I know they're just worried about me, but it's still annoying." You grin, then look up at Nanoha and Satsuki as they walk back. Satsuki still looks nervous, but she's much less stiff than she was before, and she turns around fairly smoothly when she reaches your side.

"Ah, I'm sorry for earlier," she begins, her stuttering barely noticeable even when you're listening for it. Fate smiles brightly and bows her head.

"It's quite alright - ah, Satsuki, was it? I'm Fate Testarossa Harlaown." Satsuki pales again and bows deeply.

"Ah, I-I'm sorry! Um, my name is Yumizuka Satsuki!" You sigh quietly and shake your head - but then Lindy and Alph start bringing the cake out. Fate notices people shifting around, and then sees her mother - and the cake. Her face turns red and she mock-glares at Nanoha, who laughs and pats her shoulder. Lindy carries the cake over and sets it down in front of Fate, then hold out a small tool that looks like a tiny axe, at least until Fate takes it and a tiny, gleaming yellow blade shoots out of the top.

"If you would do the honors, at least for the first piece?" Fate sighs, defeated, and cuts a reasonably-sized square from one of the corners, then gives it to Nanoha amidst general clapping. Lindy takes a normal knife from Alph and starts cutting more pieces; due to proximity, you and Satsuki are among the first recipients, but after bowing to Fate you move away to let those closer to her stay by her side. A quick glance at the people present reveals that Hayate and Shari are talking together, and Carim and her party are talking to a tallish, brown-haired man in an olive-colored uniform. The children are with Fate, including the tiny dragon. You'd think it would have grown a bit by now. Oddly, Ginga and the prisoners aren't here ….


What do you do?

[ ] Stay at the party.
- [ ] Talk to Hayate.
- - [ ] Ask if she'll talk to Vita about coming to Gensokyo.
- - [ ] Ask if she'll let you call Vita.
- - [ ] Complain about the Final Boss.

[ ] Leave the party.
- [ ] Find Ginga and the Numbers.
- - [ ] Bring cake.
- [ ] Continue teaching Satsuki.
- - [ ] Politics.
- - [ ] Etiquette.

[ ] Other?
 
Tentatively
[x] Stay at the party.
- [x] Talk to Hayate.
- - [x] Complain about the Final Boss.
Although I would really like to bring the Numbers cake (and likely touch a sore point again :rolleyes:), so hopefully that'll be possible afterwards.
And although it probably needs to be done at some point, I'm not sure this is an appropriate occasion to ask Hayate about her decision to use Remilia as a Final Boss scenario.
... Why am I voting this way? :confused:
*stupid brain grumble grumble*
 
[X] Stay at the party.
-[X] Talk to Hayate.
--[X] Ask if she'll talk to Vita about coming to Gensokyo.

Didn't we already rate the Final Boss as 'adequate'?
 
I love this video. It's far too silly, so it makes me laugh. I think my favorite part is Koa's smarmy grin at 3:04.


Morally obligatory link to the original, because Lindsey Stirling is amazing. (... and also because it makes more sense than the Touhou video.)
 
[X] Stay at the party.
-[X] Talk to Hayate.
--[X] Ask if she'll talk to Vita about coming to Gensokyo.

Nobody likes complaints, why be a party pooper?
 
I'm not sure why we want to invite Vita, however. Flandre may like her, but the feeling sure isn't mutual.

If we don't want to complain to Hayate, the write-in does allow us to rewrite that option, you guys remember?
 
Well, may as well do it myself.

[X] Stay at the party.
-[X] Talk to Hayate.
--[X] Discuss the Final Boss. Sure, she couldn't get all the details about her without seeing her fight, but why pick her for its stated purpose anyway?

Because curious. Why have Remilia be the final boss? In the Bureau, one would think their final boss to be Nanoha or Signum. Or other high-ranked mages. Unless they didn't want to have hostiles with the tech train for countermeasures against the Aces... Actually, that's probably it. But still, why Remilia?

Also, is it bad if I picture Satsuki being interested in Friedrich (because tiny dragon), only for him to go away if she try to get close because she's an undead? Poor Sacchin.
 
Because curious. Why have Remilia be the final boss? In the Bureau, one would think their final boss to be Nanoha or Signum. Or other high-ranked mages. Unless they didn't want to have hostiles with the tech train for countermeasures against the Aces... Actually, that's probably it. But still, why Remilia?
Probably Charisma.
But the security reasons for not trying to emulate their own Aces is valid, since the Bureau had been compromised before.
More to the point, they don't really MAKE a Final Boss threat on their own. Hayate + Wolkenritter might get close, but no single one of them functions like a Final Boss except with some very classified stuff.
 
Probably Charisma.
But the security reasons for not trying to emulate their own Aces is valid, since the Bureau had been compromised before.
More to the point, they don't really MAKE a Final Boss threat on their own. Hayate + Wolkenritter might get close, but no single one of them functions like a Final Boss except with some very classified stuff.
That's only part of the answer anyway. There's plenty of figures that are option. Or even creatures.

At any rate, my vote remain. I don't care for the Vita vote winning when we have an idea how Vita will feel about it.
 
Votes are not locked.
Adhoc vote count started by Entropy Judge on May 1, 2018 at 1:48 PM, finished with 11222 posts and 5 votes.

  • [x] Stay at the party.
    -[X] Talk to Hayate.
    --[X] Ask if she'll talk to Vita about coming to Gensokyo.
    [x] Stay at the party.
    - [x] Talk to Hayate.
    - - [x] Complain about the Final Boss.
    [x] Stay at the party.
    -[X] Talk to Hayate.
    --[X] Discuss the Final Boss. Sure, she couldn't get all the details about her without seeing her fight, but why pick her for its stated purpose anyway?
 
[x] Stay at the party.
-[X] Talk to Hayate.
--[X] Discuss the Final Boss. Sure, she couldn't get all the details about her without seeing her fight, but why pick her for its stated purpose anyway?
 
[x] Stay at the party.
-[X] Talk to Hayate.
--[X] Discuss the Final Boss. Sure, she couldn't get all the details about her without seeing her fight, but why pick her for its stated purpose anyway?
 
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