Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
Please don't use approval voting, it mucks up the tally. Unless that's just you saying what you'd like and isn't your final vote.
Magna Graecia: Victory's Children (A City State Quest)
- Thread starter Cetashwayo
- Start date
- Original Alt. History
- Location
- in the trash
Approval voting isn't allowed in this ekklesia.
- Location
- Europe
So many quests, so many procedures, so little time. Apologies.
[X] [User Motion] Place Ostaron on the throne in exchange for him accepting tributary status. And send Daxtus a payment of 10 Talents for the duration of his war against Taras.
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
No problemo. I will allow approval voting for some very specific votes (usually lower-stakes ones) but this one is more complicated.
- Location
- in the trash
[X] Place Ostaron back on his throne, restoring the alliance with Gnatia.
[X] Write-in: Provide a subsidy of 10 talents a year to Daxtus, for as long as he continues to be at war with the Tarantines. In return, secure his agreement not to interfere in the politics of Gnatia.
[X] Write-in: Provide a subsidy of 10 talents a year to Daxtus, for as long as he continues to be at war with the Tarantines. In return, secure his agreement not to interfere in the politics of Gnatia.
Satar
Xetares, Third Redeemer; World Drinker
- Location
- Sesh
[x] Place Ostaron on the throne in exchange for him accepting tributary status and seize the whole of the Messapii northwest, placing it in the hands of the loyal Peuketii for safekeeping[Harpos will feel that he has been adequately rewarded for his efforts].
Akakios feels that all this talk of oathes and agreements and honor is misguided, as barbaroi are scarcely above animals and exist only to be conquered by good, stout Ionian Greeks. This Harpos knows his place and so ought to be rewarded; Daxtus does not, and so must be broken!
Akakios feels that all this talk of oathes and agreements and honor is misguided, as barbaroi are scarcely above animals and exist only to be conquered by good, stout Ionian Greeks. This Harpos knows his place and so ought to be rewarded; Daxtus does not, and so must be broken!
The fact that Harpos will reduce his contributions to our war effort in Sicily if we don't give him the Northern Messapii land is problematic. The Peuketii scouts and cavalry have been a major advantage. I am uneasy about loosing them just when we are about to fight Syrakousai, the one group with heavy native support in the form of Ducetius. Syrakousai can't match our coalition in terms of numbers, so they will have to resort to trickery. And Ducetius knows the terrain in Sicily very well. Loosing the ones that so expertly defanged the scouts and raiders arranged against us in Italy is rather inconvenient right now.
Sol Zagato
senseless brute
[X] Place Ostaron back on his throne, restoring the alliance with Gnatia.
[X] Write-in: Immediately provide 50 talents to Harpos. This is understood to be an advance on his share of the spoils of war.
[X] Write-in: Provide a subsidy of 10 talents a year to Daxtus, for as long as he continues to be at war with the Tarantines. In return, secure his agreement not to interfere in the politics of Gnatia.
I don't see people placating Harpos, despite all the pretty words.
[X] Write-in: Immediately provide 50 talents to Harpos. This is understood to be an advance on his share of the spoils of war.
[X] Write-in: Provide a subsidy of 10 talents a year to Daxtus, for as long as he continues to be at war with the Tarantines. In return, secure his agreement not to interfere in the politics of Gnatia.
I don't see people placating Harpos, despite all the pretty words.
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Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
This is allowed, even if Harpos would prefer the land.
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
Obviously given there's a lot of competing write-ins I'll leave the vote open for a while longer, at least till Saturday.
Hm, if space for the growing population of the Peuketii is the problem, how would Harpos feel about us allowing him to resettle Barletos? How would our own citizens feel about that? I don't think we have any farms in that area... Certainly, giving the Peuketii access to the ocean again might become problematic should they ever decide to throw of our overlordship, but for the moment Harpos is a valued ally.
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
Uh...Barletos is a Greek settlement and member of the Epulian League.
Woops. I thought that was a destroyed Peuketii settlement. It has been a while. Doesn't look like there is any other land we could offer if that is off the table... Hn.
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
Oh, no problem. It was destroyed a while ago, but it was resettled.
- Location
- in the trash
The atmosphere in the ekklesia is tense. Many argue that Harpos should be rewarded for his loyalty and that Daxtus is a mere barbaroi and distracted by Taras anyway.
The other camp favours maintaining the truce, but here they split into bickering factions, with Sideros putting forth a proposal to have Daxtus lure Arsenon out in exchange for a subsidy, confusing many as they assume it to be a proposal to have Daxtus depose Arsenon. The confusion gets worse as there are arguments over what sort of concessions they should wring out of Gnatia for their aid, whether they should subsidize Daxtus against Taras at all, or whether they should instead compensate Harpos, and a dozen other details, until someone points out that if they continue to split hairs the camp in favour of taking land from the Messapii will win out, as the most unified bloc.
The other camp favours maintaining the truce, but here they split into bickering factions, with Sideros putting forth a proposal to have Daxtus lure Arsenon out in exchange for a subsidy, confusing many as they assume it to be a proposal to have Daxtus depose Arsenon. The confusion gets worse as there are arguments over what sort of concessions they should wring out of Gnatia for their aid, whether they should subsidize Daxtus against Taras at all, or whether they should instead compensate Harpos, and a dozen other details, until someone points out that if they continue to split hairs the camp in favour of taking land from the Messapii will win out, as the most unified bloc.
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Not really interested. I find the oathbreaking of taking land (or cities) harsher.
@Cetashwayo What would be Daxtus opinion on making Gnatia a tributary?
Still unsure what to vote...
[X] Place Ostaron back on his throne, restoring the alliance with Gnatia.
[X] USER MOTION - Eretria shall supply Daxtus with 10 Talents per year in support to sustain his war with Taras, and a significant hint that we really do quite like Ostaron and maybe if he could see his way to doing something about Arsenon we'd be really happy...
[] [User Motion] Place Ostaron on the throne in exchange for him accepting tributary status. And send Daxtus a payment of 10 Talents for the duration of his war against Taras.
@Cetashwayo What would be Daxtus opinion on making Gnatia a tributary?
Still unsure what to vote...
[X] Place Ostaron back on his throne, restoring the alliance with Gnatia.
[X] USER MOTION - Eretria shall supply Daxtus with 10 Talents per year in support to sustain his war with Taras, and a significant hint that we really do quite like Ostaron and maybe if he could see his way to doing something about Arsenon we'd be really happy...
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Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
He'd be annoyed but ultimately wouldn't be able to do much about it so he'd just throw his hands up. It's the seizure of land that would anger him.
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
Okay so I was asked:
You're allowed to make giving the Messapii gold a sub-vote of making Ostaron a tributary. I will tally the vote by bloc, and if the tributary+messapii gold option is higher than the plain tributary option, the messapii gold option will be implemented. If not, then you will simply make Ostaron a tributary.
So a vote like this:
[] Place Ostaron back on his throne, restoring the alliance with Gnatia.
[] Write-in: Provide a subsidy of 10 talents a year to Daxtus, for as long as he continues to be at war with the Tarantines. In return, secure his agreement not to interfere in the politics of Gnatia.
is allowed. It will be counted as a singular part, and counted as part of the "place Ostaron on the throne with an alliance", with a sub-vote. If the grouped vote passes the plain "place Ostaron on the throne" vote, it will be implemented.
You're allowed to make giving the Messapii gold a sub-vote of making Ostaron a tributary. I will tally the vote by bloc, and if the tributary+messapii gold option is higher than the plain tributary option, the messapii gold option will be implemented. If not, then you will simply make Ostaron a tributary.
So a vote like this:
[] Place Ostaron back on his throne, restoring the alliance with Gnatia.
[] Write-in: Provide a subsidy of 10 talents a year to Daxtus, for as long as he continues to be at war with the Tarantines. In return, secure his agreement not to interfere in the politics of Gnatia.
is allowed. It will be counted as a singular part, and counted as part of the "place Ostaron on the throne with an alliance", with a sub-vote. If the grouped vote passes the plain "place Ostaron on the throne" vote, it will be implemented.
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- Location
- Universe, Milky Way, Earth
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Davius, now wearing finer robes, stepped on his new, a bit larger and better cut stone than before. War is a profitable enterprise, it seems.
"My fellow Eretrians! We have found ourselves in a situation, that may provide our great polis with many boons... but also can be a source of a great many sorrows in the future, if we mishandle it. The chaos ravishing the south brings us numerous oppottunities.
"Fair Osteron of Gnatia needs our help. How can we refuse a good friend of the Greeks of this city? However, this situation also shows, how fickle the barbaroi can be. Though good Jharatus was was the closest a barbaroi could be to a Greek, his very own son was ready to betray the alliance that tied Eretria and Gnatia together, not even letting the body of his father properly cool down! This proves beyond a shadow of adoubt, that while barbaroi can become good friends of the Greeks, it never lasts more than a generation. They lack the tradition, the history, which makes us, Hellenes, so great.
"So we need a tie that can not be broken by even the most fickle of successors. A tie, that will ensure, that both the Gnatia and Eretria will remain trading partners, allies, friends, for as long as the walls of both of our cities stands! That is, for the Gnatia to officially recognise our protection, and reap the benefits of becoming our tributaries, like fair King Harpos did. It is only fair, for Osteron to thank us in such a manner for returning him to his home city as its ruler, and simultaneously protect it forevermore from the antagonistic fools like his brother, who would want to sever the mutually beneficial relations with a polis mere miles from his borders!
"With that said, the situation in Messapii lands is far more difficult, and requires far more thought. I am shocked to find, that some of us are willing to tarnish the good name, not just of us, but of our very city! That some are ready to break a holy oath made by the Eretria Eshkata in front of goddess Artemis herself! Didn't we already see, with the death of the Antipater, that the gods are already dissatisfied with us? Would we want to betray the honor of our grand polis, as well as the very gods themselves?!
"No, this is going too far! As a proud Eretrian, I will not stand for such a blasphemous, treacherous proposal!
"Especially due to it being completely unnecessary. We don't need to waste the lives of our fellow citizens for just a bunch of unused, or even unusable in some cases, hills. Nobody, except Peuketii..." Suddenly, Davius smiled and dramatically, like an actor in some play, waved his hand.
"Not even Daxtos! Holding them is just a matter of pride for him. And don't we all know how quickly one's dignity starts to unravel, when his supporters start doubting in his leadership and his forces get crushed under the feet of a mighty phalanx... He either is desperate, or is soon going to be. While a war with Taras wouldn't be wise, there is a certain substitute he would accept just as readily. Wars are expensive, after all. Especially when losing." A small chuckle escaped his mouth.
"And would you see that, money is the one thing we can now spare. Our standard treasury currently holds 200 talents. The Sacred Treasury contains over 500! We can spare a twenty talents this year, and then pay him annually five talents the next 3 years, to be extended up to five years if the negotiations require it, and there is no doubt he will return us the land that is utterly worthless to him. If not now, then the moment he feels the figurative sword of Taras slidign across his throat. We just need to tell him, that he can still take the offer at a later date, if he changes his mid.
"Worst comes to worst, he stays subborn like a donkey, and gets killed like a donkey. Then, we can just take the lands we wanted without breaking the holy oath our city made, since there is no more Daxtos to break peace with.
"Who is willing to become my Kleftes?"
[] USER MOTION: Place Ostaron on the throne in exchange for him accepting tributary status. Offer Daxtos an immediate payment of 20 talents and annual payment of 5 talents for the next 3 to 5 years, in exchange for the former lands of Peuketii. In case he refuses, inform him that the offer stays on the table for as long as the war lasts, and he can accept it if he changes his mind. If he dies before accepting the offer, just take the lands. We're no longer bound by the oath by then.
"My fellow Eretrians! We have found ourselves in a situation, that may provide our great polis with many boons... but also can be a source of a great many sorrows in the future, if we mishandle it. The chaos ravishing the south brings us numerous oppottunities.
"Fair Osteron of Gnatia needs our help. How can we refuse a good friend of the Greeks of this city? However, this situation also shows, how fickle the barbaroi can be. Though good Jharatus was was the closest a barbaroi could be to a Greek, his very own son was ready to betray the alliance that tied Eretria and Gnatia together, not even letting the body of his father properly cool down! This proves beyond a shadow of adoubt, that while barbaroi can become good friends of the Greeks, it never lasts more than a generation. They lack the tradition, the history, which makes us, Hellenes, so great.
"So we need a tie that can not be broken by even the most fickle of successors. A tie, that will ensure, that both the Gnatia and Eretria will remain trading partners, allies, friends, for as long as the walls of both of our cities stands! That is, for the Gnatia to officially recognise our protection, and reap the benefits of becoming our tributaries, like fair King Harpos did. It is only fair, for Osteron to thank us in such a manner for returning him to his home city as its ruler, and simultaneously protect it forevermore from the antagonistic fools like his brother, who would want to sever the mutually beneficial relations with a polis mere miles from his borders!
"With that said, the situation in Messapii lands is far more difficult, and requires far more thought. I am shocked to find, that some of us are willing to tarnish the good name, not just of us, but of our very city! That some are ready to break a holy oath made by the Eretria Eshkata in front of goddess Artemis herself! Didn't we already see, with the death of the Antipater, that the gods are already dissatisfied with us? Would we want to betray the honor of our grand polis, as well as the very gods themselves?!
"No, this is going too far! As a proud Eretrian, I will not stand for such a blasphemous, treacherous proposal!
"Especially due to it being completely unnecessary. We don't need to waste the lives of our fellow citizens for just a bunch of unused, or even unusable in some cases, hills. Nobody, except Peuketii..." Suddenly, Davius smiled and dramatically, like an actor in some play, waved his hand.
"Not even Daxtos! Holding them is just a matter of pride for him. And don't we all know how quickly one's dignity starts to unravel, when his supporters start doubting in his leadership and his forces get crushed under the feet of a mighty phalanx... He either is desperate, or is soon going to be. While a war with Taras wouldn't be wise, there is a certain substitute he would accept just as readily. Wars are expensive, after all. Especially when losing." A small chuckle escaped his mouth.
"And would you see that, money is the one thing we can now spare. Our standard treasury currently holds 200 talents. The Sacred Treasury contains over 500! We can spare a twenty talents this year, and then pay him annually five talents the next 3 years, to be extended up to five years if the negotiations require it, and there is no doubt he will return us the land that is utterly worthless to him. If not now, then the moment he feels the figurative sword of Taras slidign across his throat. We just need to tell him, that he can still take the offer at a later date, if he changes his mid.
"Worst comes to worst, he stays subborn like a donkey, and gets killed like a donkey. Then, we can just take the lands we wanted without breaking the holy oath our city made, since there is no more Daxtos to break peace with.
"Who is willing to become my Kleftes?"
[] USER MOTION: Place Ostaron on the throne in exchange for him accepting tributary status. Offer Daxtos an immediate payment of 20 talents and annual payment of 5 talents for the next 3 to 5 years, in exchange for the former lands of Peuketii. In case he refuses, inform him that the offer stays on the table for as long as the war lasts, and he can accept it if he changes his mind. If he dies before accepting the offer, just take the lands. We're no longer bound by the oath by then.
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- Location
- Mists of Albion
@Versharl and @HanEmpire might as well switch to this as it helps solidify the Vassal block over the outright conquest and deal breaking faction.
[X] Place Ostaron on the throne in exchange for him accepting tributary status.
[x] Write-in: Provide a subsidy of 10 talents a year to Daxtus, for as long as he continues to be at war with the Tarantines. In return, secure his agreement not to interfere in the politics of Gnatia.
[X] Place Ostaron on the throne in exchange for him accepting tributary status.
[x] Write-in: Provide a subsidy of 10 talents a year to Daxtus, for as long as he continues to be at war with the Tarantines. In return, secure his agreement not to interfere in the politics of Gnatia.
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Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
Basically first I'll tally by line to see which of the basic options won (tributary, alliance, land seizure+tributary), and then I'll tally by block to see if the posts with subvotes for the winning option actually surpassed posts that just took the basic option.