Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
Last edited:
Magna Graecia: Victory's Children (A City State Quest)
- Thread starter Cetashwayo
- Start date
- Original Alt. History
- Location
- France
[X] Yes, he is a trusted and friendly face among the Metapontines. No other general is so supportive of Eretria, even if it for self-serving purposes.
[X] Heroes great and small have played a role in Eretria. We must not forget them by letting their graves be forgotten, and encourage future heroes to rise up.
[X] Kallias should be sent to the Sicilian Greek Cities to forge an alliance with them against Syrakousai, convincing them to enter the war in Sicily.
[X] Heroes great and small have played a role in Eretria. We must not forget them by letting their graves be forgotten, and encourage future heroes to rise up.
[X] Kallias should be sent to the Sicilian Greek Cities to forge an alliance with them against Syrakousai, convincing them to enter the war in Sicily.
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
But that write-in is fine. Just don't expect the consequences to be just "Kallias but worse". I won't have it do nothing, but the results of sending someone else, especially Timaeus, will be interesting.
- Location
- Mists of Albion
We just need more Kleftes then?
Cool. Anyone else willing to help me with this rock? It's heavy as shit.
[X] Yes, he is a trusted and friendly face among the Metapontines. No other general is so supportive of Eretria, even if it for self-serving purposes.
[X] All have a place in Eretria, and we must not worship the dead. There cannot be any discrimination in the graves of the dead beyond the wealth of the individual.
[X] Kallias should be sent to the Sicilian Greek Cities to forge an alliance with them against Syrakousai, convincing them to enter the war in Sicily.
[X] All have a place in Eretria, and we must not worship the dead. There cannot be any discrimination in the graves of the dead beyond the wealth of the individual.
[X] Kallias should be sent to the Sicilian Greek Cities to forge an alliance with them against Syrakousai, convincing them to enter the war in Sicily.
[X] Yes, he is a trusted and friendly face among the Metapontines. No other general is so supportive of Eretria, even if it for self-serving purposes.
[X] All have a place in Eretria, and we must not worship the dead. There cannot be any discrimination in the graves of the dead beyond the wealth of the individual.
[X] Kallias should be sent to the Sicilian Greek Cities to forge an alliance with them against Syrakousai, convincing them to enter the war in Sicily.
[X] All have a place in Eretria, and we must not worship the dead. There cannot be any discrimination in the graves of the dead beyond the wealth of the individual.
[X] Kallias should be sent to the Sicilian Greek Cities to forge an alliance with them against Syrakousai, convincing them to enter the war in Sicily.
- Location
- Luton Airport
The one I'd back to fence with Leontios would be Ianedar, but that has its own issues...
- Location
- Central Europe
We could send you, the honorable Sideros. I remember you running for the position of Xenoparakletor not too many years ago.
bookwyrm
Doom of Public Libraries
- Location
- Wichita, Kansas
[X] Yes, he is a trusted and friendly face among the Metapontines. No other general is so supportive of Eretria, even if it for self-serving purposes.
[X] All have a place in Eretria, and we must not worship the dead. There cannot be any discrimination in the graves of the dead beyond the wealth of the individual.
[X] Kallias should be sent to the Sicilian Greek Cities to forge an alliance with them against Syrakousai, convincing them to enter the war in Sicily.
[X] User-Motion: Send Timaeus to aid Leontios, his former buisness partner, with investigating a Korinthian Conspiracy against Eretria Eskhata potentially involving the Tarentines, Liburni, and Dauni.
[X] All have a place in Eretria, and we must not worship the dead. There cannot be any discrimination in the graves of the dead beyond the wealth of the individual.
[X] Kallias should be sent to the Sicilian Greek Cities to forge an alliance with them against Syrakousai, convincing them to enter the war in Sicily.
[X] User-Motion: Send Timaeus to aid Leontios, his former buisness partner, with investigating a Korinthian Conspiracy against Eretria Eskhata potentially involving the Tarentines, Liburni, and Dauni.
- Location
- Hawaii
[X] Yes, he is a trusted and friendly face among the Metapontines. No other general is so supportive of Eretria, even if it for self-serving purposes.
[X] All have a place in Eretria, and we must not worship the dead. There cannot be any discrimination in the graves of the dead beyond the wealth of the individual.
[X] Kallias should be sent to the Sicilian Greek Cities to forge an alliance with them against Syrakousai, convincing them to enter the war in Sicily.
[X] All have a place in Eretria, and we must not worship the dead. There cannot be any discrimination in the graves of the dead beyond the wealth of the individual.
[X] Kallias should be sent to the Sicilian Greek Cities to forge an alliance with them against Syrakousai, convincing them to enter the war in Sicily.
Leontios wouldn't play games with the info just because we send Timaeus, would he?Yes, but Leontios doesn't actually like Timaeus?
Cetashwayo
Lord of Ten Thousand Years
- Location
- Across the Horizon
You'll just have to find out.
- Location
- United States
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Yes, he is a trusted and friendly face among the Metapontines. No other general is so supportive of Eretria, even if it for self-serving purposes.
[X] Heroes great and small have played a role in Eretria. We must not forget them by letting their graves be forgotten, and encourage future heroes to rise up.
[X] Kallias should be sent to the Sicilian Greek Cities to forge an alliance with them against Syrakousai, convincing them to enter the war in Sicily.
Keeping the Sicilian front open seems like the most time-sensitive and important thing; admittedly there are a lot of fires but... keep the initiative and strike at the heart.
[X] Heroes great and small have played a role in Eretria. We must not forget them by letting their graves be forgotten, and encourage future heroes to rise up.
[X] Kallias should be sent to the Sicilian Greek Cities to forge an alliance with them against Syrakousai, convincing them to enter the war in Sicily.
Keeping the Sicilian front open seems like the most time-sensitive and important thing; admittedly there are a lot of fires but... keep the initiative and strike at the heart.
Stealthy
Reverently Irreverent
- Location
- Roaming
Metakles, son of Aresius, was old, as his wife, children, and grandchildren kept telling him. To Hades with the lot of them, and their insistence that he sit this war out. To their dismay, his lot was drawn and fight he did. He was no longer the Olympian he was in youth in Eretria proper, but he'd be damned if he couldn't still hold a phalanx. And hold he did. And his progeny did as well; he'd have exiled them if they hadn't.
Antipater was a fine commander, and his death was a great loss for the city, but Metakles wondered if the phalanx could've held if Drako was in command instead. Metakles fought under him in the fall of Eretria of Old, and if the onslaught of the Medes and the sight of their home burning couldn't break them, then the Krotonians would not have forced falter now. Obander's blaming of the Metapontines was foolish. Antipater died because Eretria struggled to hold the line, and by the will of the gods. Pydamon had predicted precisely that, though they realized it not at the time. Still, the boy was right about one thing: Lykos was an insufficient strategoi, and the Metapontines were fools who let politics shackle them so.
[X] No, he is a weakling who cannot hold his post among his fellows. Better a strong man who does not like Eretria than a weak one who does.
METAKLES: "Metapontion hurt themselves by playing politics with war, and Lykos asks us to be as foolish? Ha. Lykos is a friend because he needs us, and I'll take that, but he didn't praise us on the march down because he was some brilliant strategoi who saw the wisdom of our ways. He praised us because he's a sycophant who can't keep his place without us. Bootlicking is no point in his favor. I want incompetence in our enemies, not our friends.
"Metapontion needs order in their ranks and a competent strategoi at the top, if we are to win this war. Do we think Lykos can provide this? Even though he needs the help of a foreign polis to keep in line? Bah, nonsense. We once elected a strategoi with better oratory than arete, and with more ambition than skill, and the gods took their due for it. Herodion spared Metapontion from any real cost this time, but let us do our new allies a favor and let them fix their mistake. By the grace of Apollo and Athena, the next one will be capable.
"If Metapontion will truly listen if Herodion tells them to keep Lykos, then his replacement may not love us, but he will listen to whatever else we have to say. Surely it would be less absurd. Let Lykos go back to whatever he's good for, and tell them to send a better strategoi in his place."
The debate petered out, eventually reaching a result. His second son, Deibos, voted against him, as it turned out. The boy's nerves were getting to him again. Metakles prayed that one day the gods would smack him out of it, because Metakles never could.
With the campaign over, at least for this year, the host returned home for the winter and Antipater's funeral; a grand affair as the man deserved, and buried in an elevated cemetery as he also deserved. It was inconceivable that somehow this was a controversy, but Obander once more sought to make noise. Hmph. Metakles saw this for what it was: a youth wanting his elders out of his way be they in life or in memory. Obander's vision for Eretria was fine and good, but he used "the future" as a handwave to avoid any argument he could not win. You get to the future in the now, boy. Earn it and work for it like we worked for ours. Impatience was ever the lot of the young, and this one was no different.
Metakles gripped his sheep bone tight as his eldest grandson Thaddeus took his place on a rock. Thaddeus was a bull of a man, and followed in Metakles' Olympian footsteps. He served as a member of the hieros ekdromoi, and with great distinction. And he had the head of a fool on his shoulders despite it all, even for being such a child. Eris would have her way with that one. He was of an age with Obander, and had even engaged in bull running with them, though by the grace of Apollo kon Athene he was not wrapped up in his political gang. One comparison to Eustarchus saw to that. Metakles' eldest son - and Thaddeus' father - had lost his life because of Eustarchus' hubris, and Metakles ensured his family learned that lesson well. Trust in arete, not oratory. Trust in ability, not promises. To be friendly with Obander, and await the day where he could back up his words, was fine, but Metakles refused to see Thaddeus beguiled by Obander's rhetoric.
The child cut a striking figure on the rock, as he prepared to address the assembly, but Metakles knew better than to let this image get his hopes up.
[X] Heroes great and small have played a role in Eretria. We must not forget them by letting their graves be forgotten, and encourage future heroes to rise up.
THADDEUS: "Come, my fellow Eretrians, and let us consider the wisdom of my fellow youth's words. Let us put the Illiad aside, for its heroes are gone and not worth remembering. The generations we spent learning those tales in our hearts were for waste. Indeed, we have naught to learn from Akhilles or Odysseus. Certainly they are not great examples of Hellene ideals to which all men of arete seek to match, and therefore we can forget them, for we shall not be invading Troy in our lifetimes. We must certainly fear our old heroes 'taunting our achievements with feelings of failure and incompleteness'. I tell you, my brothers, that this is a horrible fate. I know this because my grandfather has been inflicting such suffering on me since I was first whelped! And so even an aristoi as myself has been brought low by such fear. I have resigned myself to lowly pursuits such as the ekdromoi, for who am I to believe that I can distinguish myself in service to the polis? That my arete may ever be sufficient rather than lacking?
"For we are all equal in Eretria, and we are all nothing without our city. Indeed, I am certain Herodion can tell us of how he was nothing while he was abroad and away from our city. What accomplishments he did not achieve and what glories he did not earn. A shame, for his arete is exclusive to the polis and the polis alone, and useless outside it. And such goes for all of us, as we are all equal in skill and arete, and none of us are so unequal as to earn a separate respect and burial ground. Such equality is why we determine positions such as xenoparakletor, strategoi, and proboulos by lot, for as we are all men of equal arete it truly matters not who serves in these roles.
"So let us enjoy the Eusebiad while the great Eusebios lives, for once he dies we ought to let the legend fade, lest we youths - the future of this city - languish in his shadow. We must not let him, as the eloquent Obander said, "doom the heroes of our future to irrelevance", just as the heroes of Drako's, Herodion's, and Antipater's pasts doomed them."
Metakles was in a bit of disbelief, as in he literally did not believe what he had heard. Drako's bone-throwing lessons had aided Thaddeus' delivery, but never substance. Those words and those points were not Thaddeus' own - for when did the child even understand satire? - and he suspected who Thaddeus spoke for. Nevertheless, the speech was progress, and so he stayed his bone-bearing hand... though there would be words later.
In time, the debates of the ekklesia shifted to where Kallias should be sent this year. To no surprise, the war complicated matters. Metakles never considered these sorts of things his strong suit, but he had his opinions nonetheless. He would much prefer to dispense Kallias in a manner related to the war, but the damned Korinthians complicated matters. Coming from Leontios, the whole matter smelled rotten. The boy was untrustworthy, though should this conspiracy be true it posed a great threat to the city.
Deibos, his second son, was muttering to himself about the whole issue. He was a worrier, and Metakles knew not where he got it from. He tried to browbeat it out of him, but never to any avail. The boy could fight well enough, though, and so he was permitted to stay in the family. Ever since this war started, Deibos succumbed to the idea that Kallias should have been sent north, to assemble a coalition against the Liburnians, instead. These Korinthian rumors only made things worse. Metakles found those thoughts foolish. What was done was done, and the gods did not give out do-overs, else Metakles would have used a few himself, and some of them on Deibos.
It seemed the boy had gathered his thoughts well enough for a speech. It happened every once in a while; such a rambling thing. Very well then.
[X] Kallias should be sent to the Sicilian Greek Cities to forge an alliance with them against Syrakousai, convincing them to enter the war in Sicily.
DEIBOS: "My brothers, let us consider the dizzying array of options before us! Once again, we struggle to decide where noble Kallias is best sent to serve the polis. Indeed, our wisdom has brought forth many ideas of great merit, and all are worth considering.
"To send Kallias to the mighty Phoenicians is certainly the best way to win the war. The aid they can provide is great, great enough where subduing Phaleron is all but certainty. We and our Italiote allies have defeated the Lokri and Krotones before, and they suffered greatly for it thanks to the might of our city. With Syrakous penned in by the Phoenicians, we may force peace in Italia with confidence. The war will be won, that is certain. However, I fear this option as well. The Phoenicians will without a doubt make gains in Eastern Greece should they participate, and indeed great ones at that. Though they are a threat to our enemies today, they would be a threat to our allies tomorrow. It is a great risk, and while Syrakous must not be so strong and united as to threaten us in Italia, they must still be strong enough to prevent the Phoenicians from seizing Sicily in its entirety, and threatening our fellow Hellenes as well. As such, I counsel against this option lest it prove our only hope, for the risks are too high, though we must not forget it in case it proves necessary. Syrakous gaining ground in Italia is surely a greater danger than the Qart-Hadasht increasing their presence in Sicily.
"To send Kallias to the fearsome Krotonians is certainly the best way to permanently settle the war in Italia, and let us cross to Sicily to face the might of Syrakous. The Sikeliotes have been routed by their Phaleron's might, and Leontini is under siege. Should we not engage them soon, the Sicilian front will end in a Syrakous victory, and they will cross the strait to assault Rhegion once more. We must fear this, for the Syrakousai are the greatest enemy in this war. I would rather aid the Lokri against the Krotonians than the reverse, but doing such is much more difficult. To win Krotone to our side and betray Lokri would sunder the opposition in Italia, and while an additional polis at our side against Syrakous is an enticing prospect, I suspect that Krotone may end their involvement after retaking Temesa, or at the least let that occupy them while we engage Phaleron. And moreso, our allies fear an easy peace which leaves Krotone still strong, for that city will remain a threat to Metapontion that will not be easily turned friend. In this, I do not blame them, and as noble allies we must support them in this. This question is complicated, and perhaps we may treat with them as our army returns westward, though without the deft touch of Kallias I fear we may not get as favorable terms as we desire. I beseech the city to then place this option to rest, as while it remains a strong choice, and indeed if some of the alternatives were not present I would support it, but I am unsure if it is the best option for Kallias at this juncture.
"To send Kallias to Lykai and Leontios is certainly a nebulous option. While the home front must always be secured, Leontios is a snake who must never be trusted. Indeed, Eretria has earned its share of enemies from our actions. The Dauni desire us out of Epulia, and Mount Garganos returned to them. The Liburnians seek revenge for the devastating blow Eusebios dealt them, even as they lick their wounds from their Etruscan defeat. The Tarentines still seethe at the mention of our name, after the Kerkyrans forced us to abandon our alliance with the city and we left them to the ravages of the Messapii. And the Korinthians are rivals to those same Kerkyrans, and would gladly see us - and therefore Kerkyrans Adriatic influence - diminished. Such a conspiracy is a great fear for the city, and yet I question if it is true. Indeed, I fear what may occur if it is true and Leontios is left to take action on his own. Or if he takes action on his own regardless, for he is truly the son of Eris and leaves naught but chaos in his wake. Yet the possibility remains that this is a scheme of his, or should I say it is a certainty. He has schemed in our city recently, as we discovered by his siphoning of the wealth of our temple, and the corrupt men we have exiled from this city in the aftermath - all of whom fled to Lykai. While fear would drive us to send Kallias to Leontios, that very fear is why we may not choose to send him there at all. Truly, Leontios is both the greatest argument for and against this argument, and such is the dilemma we face.
"Finally, there is the matter of the Sicilian alliance. To send Kallias to the free Greek cities in Sicily was certainly the best way to gain more allies in the face of Phaleron. Once again, I say that he is the greatest enemy in this war, and Syrakousai is the reason we are fighting in the first place. To let him conquer our Ionian brethren is to be defeated, and we must take the means necessary to prevent such a fate. Bringing forth three new cities to fend off Phaleron, and join us when we cross the strait, will undoubtedly aid our cause. Such a windfall will surely be what we need to defeat Syrakousai, though we must hope that Phaleron does not rout them as he did the Sikeliote League before we can join them. Lokri and Krotone must be settled before we may cross, and should this new alliance, while divided from our forces, falter in the face of Phaleron, then he will be one step closer to reclaiming Hiero's Empire in Sicily. While enticing, we must be wary of the options we are not choosing. Indeed, with Krotone and Lokri yet to surrender, they pose obstacles in our path, and we must hope that the Sicilian Cities still stand strong when we cross over. This is no guarantee.
"Which option we must take, I know not. I will pray to Athena, to bless us with wisdom. And I will pray to Nike to show us the way. I trust that we shall find the way, and that by properly honoring Demeter and Poseidon the gods will once more look with favor upon our city."
If Deibos was good for one thing, it was seeing all sides of an issue, Metakles would grant him that. And if there was one thing Deibos wasn't good for, it was picking one of those damned sides. Leontios was untrustworthy. If Syrakousai conquered the Ionians and reunited the war was over, and since the whole point was keeping the Ionians in Sicily free. Preventing that was top priority if the war was to continue in anything but an immediate defeat. Should this Korinthian conspiracy be worth its salt, the Tarentines would need to contend with Eretrian's Metapontine allies, and possibly the Messapii as well. The Dauni would face the Epulian League in all its glory. The Liburnians would be trouble with their naval might, but was that not what the Kerkyrans were for? Again, all assuming that Leontios was not swindling them once more, an assumption the gods would laugh at. Metakles conceded that the choice was not easy, but the answer was clear to him.
With the matters settled, Metakles prepared himself for battle once more. His beard may long been gray, but he was the equal of most in the phalanx and drilling the men in formation. Indeed, after their last performance his experience was what the city needed, so they do not make fools of themselves again. Deibos would need to return to the cavalry. If the boy tried to attend to him in the phalanx again, he would be clouted for the insult. Metakles tolerated it once, just to see if Deibos could hold, but that was over now. Battle was to come again, and so long as Metakles could serve, he would.
Antipater was a fine commander, and his death was a great loss for the city, but Metakles wondered if the phalanx could've held if Drako was in command instead. Metakles fought under him in the fall of Eretria of Old, and if the onslaught of the Medes and the sight of their home burning couldn't break them, then the Krotonians would not have forced falter now. Obander's blaming of the Metapontines was foolish. Antipater died because Eretria struggled to hold the line, and by the will of the gods. Pydamon had predicted precisely that, though they realized it not at the time. Still, the boy was right about one thing: Lykos was an insufficient strategoi, and the Metapontines were fools who let politics shackle them so.
[X] No, he is a weakling who cannot hold his post among his fellows. Better a strong man who does not like Eretria than a weak one who does.
METAKLES: "Metapontion hurt themselves by playing politics with war, and Lykos asks us to be as foolish? Ha. Lykos is a friend because he needs us, and I'll take that, but he didn't praise us on the march down because he was some brilliant strategoi who saw the wisdom of our ways. He praised us because he's a sycophant who can't keep his place without us. Bootlicking is no point in his favor. I want incompetence in our enemies, not our friends.
"Metapontion needs order in their ranks and a competent strategoi at the top, if we are to win this war. Do we think Lykos can provide this? Even though he needs the help of a foreign polis to keep in line? Bah, nonsense. We once elected a strategoi with better oratory than arete, and with more ambition than skill, and the gods took their due for it. Herodion spared Metapontion from any real cost this time, but let us do our new allies a favor and let them fix their mistake. By the grace of Apollo and Athena, the next one will be capable.
"If Metapontion will truly listen if Herodion tells them to keep Lykos, then his replacement may not love us, but he will listen to whatever else we have to say. Surely it would be less absurd. Let Lykos go back to whatever he's good for, and tell them to send a better strategoi in his place."
The debate petered out, eventually reaching a result. His second son, Deibos, voted against him, as it turned out. The boy's nerves were getting to him again. Metakles prayed that one day the gods would smack him out of it, because Metakles never could.
With the campaign over, at least for this year, the host returned home for the winter and Antipater's funeral; a grand affair as the man deserved, and buried in an elevated cemetery as he also deserved. It was inconceivable that somehow this was a controversy, but Obander once more sought to make noise. Hmph. Metakles saw this for what it was: a youth wanting his elders out of his way be they in life or in memory. Obander's vision for Eretria was fine and good, but he used "the future" as a handwave to avoid any argument he could not win. You get to the future in the now, boy. Earn it and work for it like we worked for ours. Impatience was ever the lot of the young, and this one was no different.
Metakles gripped his sheep bone tight as his eldest grandson Thaddeus took his place on a rock. Thaddeus was a bull of a man, and followed in Metakles' Olympian footsteps. He served as a member of the hieros ekdromoi, and with great distinction. And he had the head of a fool on his shoulders despite it all, even for being such a child. Eris would have her way with that one. He was of an age with Obander, and had even engaged in bull running with them, though by the grace of Apollo kon Athene he was not wrapped up in his political gang. One comparison to Eustarchus saw to that. Metakles' eldest son - and Thaddeus' father - had lost his life because of Eustarchus' hubris, and Metakles ensured his family learned that lesson well. Trust in arete, not oratory. Trust in ability, not promises. To be friendly with Obander, and await the day where he could back up his words, was fine, but Metakles refused to see Thaddeus beguiled by Obander's rhetoric.
The child cut a striking figure on the rock, as he prepared to address the assembly, but Metakles knew better than to let this image get his hopes up.
[X] Heroes great and small have played a role in Eretria. We must not forget them by letting their graves be forgotten, and encourage future heroes to rise up.
THADDEUS: "Come, my fellow Eretrians, and let us consider the wisdom of my fellow youth's words. Let us put the Illiad aside, for its heroes are gone and not worth remembering. The generations we spent learning those tales in our hearts were for waste. Indeed, we have naught to learn from Akhilles or Odysseus. Certainly they are not great examples of Hellene ideals to which all men of arete seek to match, and therefore we can forget them, for we shall not be invading Troy in our lifetimes. We must certainly fear our old heroes 'taunting our achievements with feelings of failure and incompleteness'. I tell you, my brothers, that this is a horrible fate. I know this because my grandfather has been inflicting such suffering on me since I was first whelped! And so even an aristoi as myself has been brought low by such fear. I have resigned myself to lowly pursuits such as the ekdromoi, for who am I to believe that I can distinguish myself in service to the polis? That my arete may ever be sufficient rather than lacking?
"For we are all equal in Eretria, and we are all nothing without our city. Indeed, I am certain Herodion can tell us of how he was nothing while he was abroad and away from our city. What accomplishments he did not achieve and what glories he did not earn. A shame, for his arete is exclusive to the polis and the polis alone, and useless outside it. And such goes for all of us, as we are all equal in skill and arete, and none of us are so unequal as to earn a separate respect and burial ground. Such equality is why we determine positions such as xenoparakletor, strategoi, and proboulos by lot, for as we are all men of equal arete it truly matters not who serves in these roles.
"So let us enjoy the Eusebiad while the great Eusebios lives, for once he dies we ought to let the legend fade, lest we youths - the future of this city - languish in his shadow. We must not let him, as the eloquent Obander said, "doom the heroes of our future to irrelevance", just as the heroes of Drako's, Herodion's, and Antipater's pasts doomed them."
Metakles was in a bit of disbelief, as in he literally did not believe what he had heard. Drako's bone-throwing lessons had aided Thaddeus' delivery, but never substance. Those words and those points were not Thaddeus' own - for when did the child even understand satire? - and he suspected who Thaddeus spoke for. Nevertheless, the speech was progress, and so he stayed his bone-bearing hand... though there would be words later.
In time, the debates of the ekklesia shifted to where Kallias should be sent this year. To no surprise, the war complicated matters. Metakles never considered these sorts of things his strong suit, but he had his opinions nonetheless. He would much prefer to dispense Kallias in a manner related to the war, but the damned Korinthians complicated matters. Coming from Leontios, the whole matter smelled rotten. The boy was untrustworthy, though should this conspiracy be true it posed a great threat to the city.
Deibos, his second son, was muttering to himself about the whole issue. He was a worrier, and Metakles knew not where he got it from. He tried to browbeat it out of him, but never to any avail. The boy could fight well enough, though, and so he was permitted to stay in the family. Ever since this war started, Deibos succumbed to the idea that Kallias should have been sent north, to assemble a coalition against the Liburnians, instead. These Korinthian rumors only made things worse. Metakles found those thoughts foolish. What was done was done, and the gods did not give out do-overs, else Metakles would have used a few himself, and some of them on Deibos.
It seemed the boy had gathered his thoughts well enough for a speech. It happened every once in a while; such a rambling thing. Very well then.
[X] Kallias should be sent to the Sicilian Greek Cities to forge an alliance with them against Syrakousai, convincing them to enter the war in Sicily.
DEIBOS: "My brothers, let us consider the dizzying array of options before us! Once again, we struggle to decide where noble Kallias is best sent to serve the polis. Indeed, our wisdom has brought forth many ideas of great merit, and all are worth considering.
"To send Kallias to the mighty Phoenicians is certainly the best way to win the war. The aid they can provide is great, great enough where subduing Phaleron is all but certainty. We and our Italiote allies have defeated the Lokri and Krotones before, and they suffered greatly for it thanks to the might of our city. With Syrakous penned in by the Phoenicians, we may force peace in Italia with confidence. The war will be won, that is certain. However, I fear this option as well. The Phoenicians will without a doubt make gains in Eastern Greece should they participate, and indeed great ones at that. Though they are a threat to our enemies today, they would be a threat to our allies tomorrow. It is a great risk, and while Syrakous must not be so strong and united as to threaten us in Italia, they must still be strong enough to prevent the Phoenicians from seizing Sicily in its entirety, and threatening our fellow Hellenes as well. As such, I counsel against this option lest it prove our only hope, for the risks are too high, though we must not forget it in case it proves necessary. Syrakous gaining ground in Italia is surely a greater danger than the Qart-Hadasht increasing their presence in Sicily.
"To send Kallias to the fearsome Krotonians is certainly the best way to permanently settle the war in Italia, and let us cross to Sicily to face the might of Syrakous. The Sikeliotes have been routed by their Phaleron's might, and Leontini is under siege. Should we not engage them soon, the Sicilian front will end in a Syrakous victory, and they will cross the strait to assault Rhegion once more. We must fear this, for the Syrakousai are the greatest enemy in this war. I would rather aid the Lokri against the Krotonians than the reverse, but doing such is much more difficult. To win Krotone to our side and betray Lokri would sunder the opposition in Italia, and while an additional polis at our side against Syrakous is an enticing prospect, I suspect that Krotone may end their involvement after retaking Temesa, or at the least let that occupy them while we engage Phaleron. And moreso, our allies fear an easy peace which leaves Krotone still strong, for that city will remain a threat to Metapontion that will not be easily turned friend. In this, I do not blame them, and as noble allies we must support them in this. This question is complicated, and perhaps we may treat with them as our army returns westward, though without the deft touch of Kallias I fear we may not get as favorable terms as we desire. I beseech the city to then place this option to rest, as while it remains a strong choice, and indeed if some of the alternatives were not present I would support it, but I am unsure if it is the best option for Kallias at this juncture.
"To send Kallias to Lykai and Leontios is certainly a nebulous option. While the home front must always be secured, Leontios is a snake who must never be trusted. Indeed, Eretria has earned its share of enemies from our actions. The Dauni desire us out of Epulia, and Mount Garganos returned to them. The Liburnians seek revenge for the devastating blow Eusebios dealt them, even as they lick their wounds from their Etruscan defeat. The Tarentines still seethe at the mention of our name, after the Kerkyrans forced us to abandon our alliance with the city and we left them to the ravages of the Messapii. And the Korinthians are rivals to those same Kerkyrans, and would gladly see us - and therefore Kerkyrans Adriatic influence - diminished. Such a conspiracy is a great fear for the city, and yet I question if it is true. Indeed, I fear what may occur if it is true and Leontios is left to take action on his own. Or if he takes action on his own regardless, for he is truly the son of Eris and leaves naught but chaos in his wake. Yet the possibility remains that this is a scheme of his, or should I say it is a certainty. He has schemed in our city recently, as we discovered by his siphoning of the wealth of our temple, and the corrupt men we have exiled from this city in the aftermath - all of whom fled to Lykai. While fear would drive us to send Kallias to Leontios, that very fear is why we may not choose to send him there at all. Truly, Leontios is both the greatest argument for and against this argument, and such is the dilemma we face.
"Finally, there is the matter of the Sicilian alliance. To send Kallias to the free Greek cities in Sicily was certainly the best way to gain more allies in the face of Phaleron. Once again, I say that he is the greatest enemy in this war, and Syrakousai is the reason we are fighting in the first place. To let him conquer our Ionian brethren is to be defeated, and we must take the means necessary to prevent such a fate. Bringing forth three new cities to fend off Phaleron, and join us when we cross the strait, will undoubtedly aid our cause. Such a windfall will surely be what we need to defeat Syrakousai, though we must hope that Phaleron does not rout them as he did the Sikeliote League before we can join them. Lokri and Krotone must be settled before we may cross, and should this new alliance, while divided from our forces, falter in the face of Phaleron, then he will be one step closer to reclaiming Hiero's Empire in Sicily. While enticing, we must be wary of the options we are not choosing. Indeed, with Krotone and Lokri yet to surrender, they pose obstacles in our path, and we must hope that the Sicilian Cities still stand strong when we cross over. This is no guarantee.
"Which option we must take, I know not. I will pray to Athena, to bless us with wisdom. And I will pray to Nike to show us the way. I trust that we shall find the way, and that by properly honoring Demeter and Poseidon the gods will once more look with favor upon our city."
If Deibos was good for one thing, it was seeing all sides of an issue, Metakles would grant him that. And if there was one thing Deibos wasn't good for, it was picking one of those damned sides. Leontios was untrustworthy. If Syrakousai conquered the Ionians and reunited the war was over, and since the whole point was keeping the Ionians in Sicily free. Preventing that was top priority if the war was to continue in anything but an immediate defeat. Should this Korinthian conspiracy be worth its salt, the Tarentines would need to contend with Eretrian's Metapontine allies, and possibly the Messapii as well. The Dauni would face the Epulian League in all its glory. The Liburnians would be trouble with their naval might, but was that not what the Kerkyrans were for? Again, all assuming that Leontios was not swindling them once more, an assumption the gods would laugh at. Metakles conceded that the choice was not easy, but the answer was clear to him.
With the matters settled, Metakles prepared himself for battle once more. His beard may long been gray, but he was the equal of most in the phalanx and drilling the men in formation. Indeed, after their last performance his experience was what the city needed, so they do not make fools of themselves again. Deibos would need to return to the cavalry. If the boy tried to attend to him in the phalanx again, he would be clouted for the insult. Metakles tolerated it once, just to see if Deibos could hold, but that was over now. Battle was to come again, and so long as Metakles could serve, he would.
- Location
- Luton Airport
I would suggest that the current lull is the time to allow Metapontion to sort themselves out without our involvement, so that we can have a firm foundation for the next campaigning season, rather than having to prop up a weak leader against domestic opposition.
I'd also say a Hero Cemetery is going to bring us much grief in future. The lesson of Antipaters' death is that the phalanx fights together, the body of Eretria working as one, it requires more than just individual heroes.
I'd also say a Hero Cemetery is going to bring us much grief in future. The lesson of Antipaters' death is that the phalanx fights together, the body of Eretria working as one, it requires more than just individual heroes.
- Location
- Southern Virginia
The phalanx buckled because the hoplites of Eretria were not ready for a clash with a true Greek phalanx that would stand its ground. It was a lack of arete, not coordination, that caused the disarray; and only a prod to better pursue the arts of manly honor will correct it. As such interring heroes in state of honor is critical, so that their renown will outlive memory and all citizens will accordingly have examples of what arete demands.
- Location
- Luton Airport
The renown of a true hero will outlive his body no matter where he lies. Do we speak of Akhilles only because of the glory of his tomb?! No, for his deeds speak for themselves, and will live in memory even if every stone that bore his legend were to be ground to dust.
Our warriors fight together as one, and they should lie in eternity as one, the tales of their glories carried on amongst those their spears guarded, their victories recorded in our monuments.
Our warriors fight together as one, and they should lie in eternity as one, the tales of their glories carried on amongst those their spears guarded, their victories recorded in our monuments.
- Location
- Mists of Albion
Okay, can we go out of character for a second,because I seriously do not fucking get this.
Getting hero tombs means we get to better remember our history and inspire people to become heroes more easily.
There are literally no downsides except from a few disagreements on who get to get in.
So legitimately, with all the possible and definite benefits, why skip out and deny it so vehemently?
It makes absolutely no sense to me unless you want to try and force 'muh Social equality' on a Classical Greek City State.
- Location
- Luton Airport
It's Eretria - we have enough trouble with the politics of the living, without politicising the dead as well. There will inevitably come a time when whether or not someone gets interred in the Hero's Cemetery is a hugely divisive issue. Eustarchus is an pre-existing example of someone who would have been that sort of problem.
- Location
- Sweden
[X] Yes, he is a trusted and friendly face among the Metapontines. No other general is so supportive of Eretria, even if it for self-serving purposes.
[X] All have a place in Eretria, and we must not worship the dead. There cannot be any discrimination in the graves of the dead beyond the wealth of the individual.
[X] All have a place in Eretria, and we must not worship the dead. There cannot be any discrimination in the graves of the dead beyond the wealth of the individual.
- Location
- Mists of Albion
So you just don't want to bother with it despite the fact it will be a huge cultural and historical thing for us? I get with disliking politics and strife but we dealt with similar for less benefits.
- Location
- Luton Airport
I also think, culturally, that we're better emphasising heroism within the context of cooperative action, rather than singular achievement. A great deal of Eretrian culture rests upon that collectivism and sense that every citizen contributes in the phalanx.
- Location
- Mists of Albion
But the phalanx didn't win the battle and isn't our speciality. It's in our cavalry and elite units.
Furthermore Eretria isn't about the collective, it's the heroes who have saved it. Yes the Ekklesia is the beating heart of the city but it has been our heroes who have saved us from or mistakes. Our war against the Barbaroi outnumbered as we are was only won due to the leadership of heroes, the city was spared from pirates due to the actions of the hero Eusebious, the laws and culture of the city was dictated by heroes mainly.
We are more collective than most. But this cities heroes are it's lifeblood and the only reason we've survived.
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- Location
- Luton Airport
And those heroes who serve Eretria will be remembered and valued by Eretria, wherever their bodies lie. That is their reward. We don't need a special cemetery for them.
- Location
- Mists of Albion
....So we get less heroes and remember the heroes we do have to a lesser extent by relying on oral tradition?
Less hero culture, less knowledge of our history. Not good enough in my opinion. We didn't say that the mass graves of WW1 were good enough, we commemorated the generals and created tombs to remember the soldiers for their heroics at home.