[X] Continue limited experiments. With exposure trajectories already charted for you by the Dalatrasses' sprint to fathom the bottom of sapient morality, you have what you need to ethically study this thing. Of course, the prior experiments also show the dangers of the artifact, so you'd best tread carefully.
There's always a risk, of course, but I'd rather it come from a vector we recognize and prepared for with proper research. We also have to weigh the trade-off of potentially safer technological advances versus more time to study and spread awareness of the possibility of indoctrination by ancient artifacts. Honestly, I don't see anything safer than long-distance study with drones and remote sensors. The team in Arrival tried to get fancy with a protective energy field, but that just got them indoctrinated anyway, so it might actually be MORE dangerous in the future.
[X] Fire it into the sun. Durrahe has the right of it. Whatever mad idea the Precursors had in mind when they engineered it, you can't think of any value to be had in learning how to implant anarchist ideology. Hell, any ideology. Despite how Lissa occasionally worries about you, you are not an autocrat, and you certainly have no interest in this madness.
[X] Put it on ice. This thing is dangerous to study even with detailed notes on its effects, but its principles show promise. It's likely that you simply don't have the technology to productively study it at this point, but you can release the research notes and wait for them to click for somebody. You can always revisit experiments later if a promising avenue of research crops up.
Firing it into the sun is probably the smartest idea, but I do like the idea of being able to safely detect mind control. I don't feel we have a decent enough understanding of the tech to safely study it, especially since I have sincere doubts that studying it right now amounts to anything more than whatever the equivalent of hitting the mind control tech with a stick and seeing what happens is.
Also, remember that we have potential test cases to cross-reference with our own research right now, but, in a couple decades at most but probably less since Reaper thralls have shorter lifespan, they'll all be dead and we'd have nothing, unless we decide to indulge in some pretty unethical stuff.
@PoptartProdigy When I compare the flavor text of limited vs full experimentation, it seems to me that limited is intended to be the 'Slow, but safe' option. Is this correct? Or, would both options contain the same amount of security measures?
If we choose to put it on ice, we'd still constantly check up on the people who guard it, right?
Preliminary vote:
[] Put it on ice. This thing is dangerous to study even with detailed notes on its effects, but its principles show promise. It's likely that you simply don't have the technology to productively study it at this point, but you can release the research notes and wait for them to click for somebody. You can always revisit experiments later if a promising avenue of research crops up.
[x] Continue limited experiments. With exposure trajectories already charted for you by the Dalatrasses' sprint to fathom the bottom of sapient morality, you have what you need to ethically study this thing. Of course, the prior experiments also show the dangers of the artifact, so you'd best tread carefully.
[] Continue full experimentation. While the Lystheni's direction of research was utter madness, they weren't wrong about the sheer potential of this artifact. If it can be invented once, it can be invented again -- and you'd like to know if there's a countermeasure. Authorize a full and proper team, and tell them to get you answers.
[X] Fire it into the sun. Durrahe has the right of it. Whatever mad idea the Precursors had in mind when they engineered it, you can't think of any value to be had in learning how to implant anarchist ideology. Hell, any ideology. Despite how Lissa occasionally worries about you, you are not an autocrat, and you certainly have no interest in this madness.
Not going to risk someone digging up that insanity piece while we weren't looking.
[X] Fire it into the sun. Durrahe has the right of it. Whatever mad idea the Precursors had in mind when they engineered it, you can't think of any value to be had in learning how to implant anarchist ideology. Hell, any ideology. Despite how Lissa occasionally worries about you, you are not an autocrat, and you certainly have no interest in this madness.
There is no IC reason for Virmire to peruse mind control technology, especially when they know that even being highly careful the effects can't be contained.
[X] Fire it into the sun. Durrahe has the right of it. Whatever mad idea the Precursors had in mind when they engineered it, you can't think of any value to be had in learning how to implant anarchist ideology. Hell, any ideology. Despite how Lissa occasionally worries about you, you are not an autocrat, and you certainly have no interest in this madness.
[X] Continue full experimentation. While the Lystheni's direction of research was utter madness, they weren't wrong about the sheer potential of this artifact. If it can be invented once, it can be invented again -- and you'd like to know if there's a countermeasure.Authorize a full and proper team, and tell them to get you answers.
The only reason we might study it is to learn to counter the effects of indoctrination, but in the process we risk ending up like Jack.
[X] Fire it into the sun. Durrahe has the right of it. Whatever mad idea the Precursors had in mind when they engineered it, you can't think of any value to be had in learning how to implant anarchist ideology. Hell, any ideology. Despite how Lissa occasionally worries about you, you are not an autocrat, and you certainly have no interest in this madness.
[X] Continue limited experiments. With exposure trajectories already charted for you by the Dalatrasses' sprint to fathom the bottom of sapient morality, you have what you need to ethically study this thing. Of course, the prior experiments also show the dangers of the artifact, so you'd best tread carefully.
[X] Fire it into the sun. Durrahe has the right of it. Whatever mad idea the Precursors had in mind when they engineered it, you can't think of any value to be had in learning how to implant anarchist ideology. Hell, any ideology. Despite how Lissa occasionally worries about you, you are not an autocrat, and you certainly have no interest in this madness.
[X] Put it on ice. This thing is dangerous to study even with detailed notes on its effects, but its principles show promise. It's likely that you simply don't have the technology to productivelystudy it at this point, but you can release the research notes and wait for them to click for somebody. You can always revisitexperiments later if a promising avenue of research crops up.
[x] Continue limited experiments. With exposure trajectories already charted for you by the Dalatrasses' sprint to fathom the bottom of sapient morality, you have what you need to ethically study this thing. Of course, the prior experiments also show the dangers of the artifact, so you'd best tread carefully.
I agree with some of the comments here, we need to study it. Carefully, granted, but there needs to be a way to at least determine when someone has been indoctrinated or not.
After all, there are a lot of archeological digsites in our cluster, who's to say that another of those mind-rapey artifacts will not turn up there too?
Personally, i'd guess that once enough research has been made and some indicators identified, they might even find that some (or all) of the Rachni corpses they scanned have these markers. (The sour yellow note, i believe was what the rachni queen stated in the original Games)
Also in regards to canon:
I think one of the biggest causes for the catastrophic results in studying reapertech was not only the rather short timeframe, but the need for secrecy and limited ressources (materiel and personel).
In canon, Cerberus and the System alliance was limited to a few (ten-)thousand or a few million personel respectively, further limited by the need of security clearances and trust to be even considered for a secret project, let alone having enough people with the correct credentials (like engineering/genetics/etc) in addition to the security clearance.
Virmire doesn't quite have that problem.
They're in a state of war for decades, so they're a lot less likely to demonstrate because research is risky or for well-meaning idiots to try and sabotage the research (animal testing activists, for example). In addition, they're isolated and will probably be for a few more years, if not decades. Which means that foreign polities are very unlikely to interfere/spy/sabotage.
So, there much less need/temptation to keep the research hidden and therefore limiting the pool of ressources one can assign to them. Hell, you can put a job-ad out "Scientist in XX/YY wanted for study of dangerous Xeno-artefact" and handpick the best candidates and ensure they're rotated out constantly (if they're even allowed near enough to the artefact)
No secrecy also means that you can openly have a light cruiser or two constantly having it's mainguns aimed at the research station just in case. Something that would raise a few eyebrows if you'd keep the research secret. (Note, i'm not saying full public disclosure, saying it's to guard against the dangerous xeno-artefact is enough, in my opinion)
Long time lurker here poking my head up. Has anyone thought about that if they were indoctrinated... why did they give themselves away. It's been shown that Reaper indoctrinated hide what they are doing and while trying to sabotage any resistance while gainig more followers. Leviathan indoctrinated try to hide their presence with possibly the exception of the Rachni. The people affected by this artifact did none of this. They gave themselves away and went against a group that would actually be doing what they want, planting artifact that would indoctrinate more people. I think the thing maybe something else. Perhaps an attempt against indoctrination. Either way I think this requires further study.
[X] Continue limited experiments. With exposure trajectories already charted for you by the Dalatrasses' sprint to fathom the bottom of sapient morality, you have what you need to ethically study this thing. Of course, the prior experiments also show the dangers of the artifact, so you'd best tread carefully.
Problem with trying to study it is exposing people to it. We don't know how much is exactly needed to basically form sleepers. Sure, the explicit hard point may be 240 hours of exposure to be full on destructive thrall, but we don't know if partial exposure makes people more susceptible to being paranoid and acting on said paranoia (say, against the government for example) or being otherwise more vulnerable to Reaper-esque influence.
Unless we are going to basically never let anyone that get exposed ever reenter society anyways there is still significant risks.
[X] Continue limited experiments. With exposure trajectories already charted for you by the Dalatrasses' sprint to fathom the bottom of sapient morality, you have what you need to ethically study this thing. Of course, the prior experiments also show the dangers of the artifact, so you'd best tread carefully.
[X] Fire it into the sun. Durrahe has the right of it. Whatever mad idea the Precursors had in mind when they engineered it, you can't think of any value to be had in learning how to implant anarchist ideology. Hell, any ideology. Despite how Lissa occasionally worries about you, you are not an autocrat, and you certainly have no interest in this madness.
To slow to get here after to post, and before the mandtoriam was up.
Fire to sun option: To nuclear, to pardon the pun. eliminates all need for study.
Put on Ice: Best of those offered. ..but somewhat false in that we could safely study the artifacts via remotes.
Limited experiments: as long as they are volunteers serving death pelnties or life sentences already. or have health issues that will see them dead in a few years. this would be a good choice. especially to see if we can lock/cancel the effects. they we go on to figure out how to replicate. Don't work with deadly material without learning how to handle it safely first.
Full experiments.... Yhea what? Political and actual suicide in anything but the short run.
Fifth option: Put on Ice, but with Remote access study of them. IE: no one living gets within a 100km of the station for prolonged periods. but remotes piloted by researchers in another station well away from where the artifacts can study their composition and mechanics. and attempt to replicate them via remote operations as well.
6th option: like the 5th, but with limited experiments on volunteers that know ahead of time that they will not be coming back from the station. also multiple remote activated self destructs that no one in the system knows where they are. some which can be activated by the remote station, and some that can be activated by the military ship.
[X] Fire it into the sun. Durrahe has the right of it. Whatever mad idea the Precursors had in mind when they engineered it, you can't think of any value to be had in learning how to implant anarchist ideology. Hell, any ideology. Despite how Lissa occasionally worries about you, you are not an autocrat, and you certainly have no interest in this madness.
VOTE
[X] Put it on ice. This thing is dangerous to study even with detailed notes on its effects, but its principles show promise. It's likely that you simply don't have the technology to productively study it at this point, but you can release the research notes and wait for them to click for somebody. You can always revisit experiments later if a promising avenue of research crops up.
[X] Continue limited experiments. With exposure trajectories already charted for you by the Dalatrasses' sprint to fathom the bottom of sapient morality, you have what you need to ethically study this thing. Of course, the prior experiments also show the dangers of the artifact, so you'd best tread carefully.
[X] Continue full experimentation. While the Lystheni's direction of research was utter madness, they weren't wrong about the sheer potential of this artifact. If it can be invented once, it can be invented again -- and you'd like to know if there's a countermeasure. Authorize a full and proper team, and tell them to get you answers.
REASONS
An anti-hierarchy weapon? This is pretty evidently an anti-Reaper weapon. Specifically, an anti-Husk measure, to subvert them from enemy control.
It would help explain why the ruins of that particular planet were so intact if Reaper infantry couldn't be deployed on the planet without rebelling.
Alternatively, it could be an anti-Leviathan weapon; people tend to forget that the telepathic Leviathan were the galaxy's first hyperpower
The early history of the Leviathans is completely unknown, but it is speculated by Task Force Aurora that they evolved on an unknown planet that also produced at least one other sapient species. The Leviathans developed the ability to communicate with and dominate land-based sapient species to serve their purposes.
Eventually, the Leviathans utilized this thrall species' civilization to achieve spaceflight and spread throughout the galaxy, despite their immense size and aquatic nature. Every new species they encountered was enthralled to serve them and provide "tribute", and in return, the thralls were cared for and protected. With their dominance assured, Leviathans considered themselves the galaxy's apex race. Over time, however, they observed that their thralls would frequently build synthetic constructs to aid them; these synthetics consistently rebelled, wiping out many thrall species. In response, the Leviathans created an Intelligence with the mandate to preserve life at all costs.
Basically, they were the galaxy's Thrintun, and the Reapers were the Tnuctipun who burned the galaxy to destroy them.
Depends on how old the Precursors were.
First, we need a defence,whether it's possible now, or in a thousand years. So destroying the device itself is right out.
Second, we might be able to use it against the Rachni now, given how they rely on basically telepathy for cluster-wide coordination.
And if we roll really well, maybe we might be able to figure out how to reverse what Indoctrination they got hit with.
Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on Apr 11, 2018 at 4:16 AM, finished with 80 posts and 21 votes.
[X] Fire it into the sun. Durrahe has the right of it. Whatever mad idea the Precursors had in mind when they engineered it, you can't think of any value to be had in learning how to implant anarchist ideology. Hell, any ideology. Despite how Lissa occasionally worries about you, you are not an autocrat, and you certainly have no interest in this madness.
[X] Continue limited experiments. With exposure trajectories already charted for you by the Dalatrasses' sprint to fathom the bottom of sapient morality, you have what you need to ethically study this thing. Of course, the prior experiments also show the dangers of the artifact, so you'd best tread carefully.
[X] Put it on ice. This thing is dangerous to study even with detailed notes on its effects, but its principles show promise. It's likely that you simply don't have the technology to productively study it at this point, but you can release the research notes and wait for them to click for somebody. You can always revisit experiments later if a promising avenue of research crops up.
[X] Continue full experimentation. While the Lystheni's direction of research was utter madness, they weren't wrong about the sheer potential of this artifact. If it can be invented once, it can be invented again -- and you'd like to know if there's a countermeasure. Authorize a full and proper team, and tell them to get you answers.
Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on Apr 11, 2018 at 4:57 AM, finished with 85 posts and 25 votes.
[X] Continue limited experiments. With exposure trajectories already charted for you by the Dalatrasses' sprint to fathom the bottom of sapient morality, you have what you need to ethically study this thing. Of course, the prior experiments also show the dangers of the artifact, so you'd best tread carefully.
[X] Fire it into the sun. Durrahe has the right of it. Whatever mad idea the Precursors had in mind when they engineered it, you can't think of any value to be had in learning how to implant anarchist ideology. Hell, any ideology. Despite how Lissa occasionally worries about you, you are not an autocrat, and you certainly have no interest in this madness.
[X] Put it on ice. This thing is dangerous to study even with detailed notes on its effects, but its principles show promise. It's likely that you simply don't have the technology to productively study it at this point, but you can release the research notes and wait for them to click for somebody. You can always revisit experiments later if a promising avenue of research crops up.
[X] Continue full experimentation. While the Lystheni's direction of research was utter madness, they weren't wrong about the sheer potential of this artifact. If it can be invented once, it can be invented again -- and you'd like to know if there's a countermeasure. Authorize a full and proper team, and tell them to get you answers.
[X] Put it on ice. This thing is dangerous to study even with detailed notes on its effects, but its principles show promise. It's likely that you simply don't have the technology to productively study it at this point, but you can release the research notes and wait for them to click for somebody. You can always revisit experiments later if a promising avenue of research crops up.
Adhoc vote count started by Thors_Alumni on Apr 11, 2018 at 4:35 AM, finished with 81 posts and 22 votes.
[X] Continue limited experiments. With exposure trajectories already charted for you by the Dalatrasses' sprint to fathom the bottom of sapient morality, you have what you need to ethically study this thing. Of course, the prior experiments also show the dangers of the artifact, so you'd best tread carefully.
[X] Fire it into the sun. Durrahe has the right of it. Whatever mad idea the Precursors had in mind when they engineered it, you can't think of any value to be had in learning how to implant anarchist ideology. Hell, any ideology. Despite how Lissa occasionally worries about you, you are not an autocrat, and you certainly have no interest in this madness.
[X] Put it on ice. This thing is dangerous to study even with detailed notes on its effects, but its principles show promise. It's likely that you simply don't have the technology to productively study it at this point, but you can release the research notes and wait for them to click for somebody. You can always revisit experiments later if a promising avenue of research crops up.
[X] Continue full experimentation. While the Lystheni's direction of research was utter madness, they weren't wrong about the sheer potential of this artifact. If it can be invented once, it can be invented again -- and you'd like to know if there's a countermeasure. Authorize a full and proper team, and tell them to get you answers.
Adhoc vote count started by Thors_Alumni on Apr 11, 2018 at 5:04 AM, finished with 85 posts and 25 votes.
[X] Continue limited experiments. With exposure trajectories already charted for you by the Dalatrasses' sprint to fathom the bottom of sapient morality, you have what you need to ethically study this thing. Of course, the prior experiments also show the dangers of the artifact, so you'd best tread carefully.
[X] Fire it into the sun. Durrahe has the right of it. Whatever mad idea the Precursors had in mind when they engineered it, you can't think of any value to be had in learning how to implant anarchist ideology. Hell, any ideology. Despite how Lissa occasionally worries about you, you are not an autocrat, and you certainly have no interest in this madness.
[X] Put it on ice. This thing is dangerous to study even with detailed notes on its effects, but its principles show promise. It's likely that you simply don't have the technology to productively study it at this point, but you can release the research notes and wait for them to click for somebody. You can always revisit experiments later if a promising avenue of research crops up.
[X] Continue full experimentation. While the Lystheni's direction of research was utter madness, they weren't wrong about the sheer potential of this artifact. If it can be invented once, it can be invented again -- and you'd like to know if there's a countermeasure. Authorize a full and proper team, and tell them to get you answers.
[x] Continue limited experiments. With exposure trajectories already charted for you by the Dalatrasses' sprint to fathom the bottom of sapient morality, you have what you need to ethically study this thing. Of course, the prior experiments also show the dangers of the artifact, so you'd best tread carefully.
[X] Continue limited experiments. With exposure trajectories already charted for you by the Dalatrasses' sprint to fathom the bottom of sapient morality, you have what you need to ethically study this thing. Of course, the prior experiments also show the dangers of the artifact, so you'd best tread carefully.
[X] Continue full experimentation. While the Lystheni's direction of research was utter madness, they weren't wrong about the sheer potential of this artifact. If it can be invented once, it can be invented again -- and you'd like to know if there's a countermeasure. Authorize a full and proper team, and tell them to get you answers.
The reason why Mira would want to keep it is that we know in character by now that the Rachni make use of interstellar range telepathy. The Rachni Queen at the battle of Attican Beta contacted her mind from beyond the range of our battle cruisers main guns. And we know by now that the chances of a quick victory over the Rachni is slim. What if they discover an artifact like this in their reckless expansion?
The Rachni already have more experience with telepathic phenomena than any other species. Hell, it is one of the cornerstones of their biology and society. There is a disturbing likelihood that they would be able to figure these artifacts out far faster than any other species if they stumble on one of them...
What if they learn how to project the mental domination effects of the artifact at the ranges their Queens can communicate at? This would be an absolute nightmare scenario, a single Rachni ship in Hoc system could destroy our entire political leadership, maybe even convert the entirety of Virmire to become part of their Hivemind!
Figuring out how the artifact works is an absolute top strategic priority to defend ourselves from the possibility of Rachni telepathic warfare.
[X ] Fire it into the sun. Durrahe has the right of it. Whatever mad idea the Precursors had in mind when they engineered it, you can't think of any value to be had in learning how to implant anarchist ideology. Hell, any ideology. Despite how Lissa occasionally worries about you, you are not an autocrat, and you certainly have no interest in this madness.
That is reaper tech, Throw that away before we lose some scientists.
