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Even Further Beyond [Complete]
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
Da Boyz
The Cutest Apocalypse.
As a Psuedolich we can swap out our form later by redrawing the diagram and waiting out the weeks long change right? Might as well go with Warmain for now then if we're choosing Tomb and Balanced if we're Going West.
Vault would probably be better for the Tomb, for logistical reasons. It's a moving dungeon that needs Cerebration to be located, so we can't leave it once we are in until we are done. This means bringing lots of supplies, which means we need the Vault as a mobile base. It's also a convenient way to carry any loot we find.
Some things to consider regarding Flesh Diagram. It's basic abilities grant "moderate" to all combat actions and mere 40% Cultivation increase. Alternative forms take massive downsides to get it to power other Diagrams take as granted, which were very much ignored by it's voters.
In particular, Flesh Diagram voters plan to mitigate socially unacceptable and outright monstrous forms we take by being the Elder Beast or Warmain by using illusions - which don't actually work on Reality Forming and higher stages, which is to say everyone who actually matters, basically making it's downsides unmitigated for our purpose. I wouldn't be surprised if that includes Elves, and it certainly does includes our allies. This is in addition to possessing Eyes of Kong, a "holy grail" of Heterodoxy, which is especially bad if we decide to got 100% Kong with Elder Beast form.
In addition, we will need to spend time and resources to first develop a form, and then few weeks changing into it, easily losing up to a month on just that. If you plan on visiting Tomb, that may very well mean going inside while process lasts, or much greater chance of Elves folding in meantime.
Besides, Elder Beast heavily edits all not-Cultivation focused organs while Warmain outright turns us into bug monster. I prefer enjoying stuff, and we know Nameless does too.
In particular, Flesh Diagram voters plan to mitigate socially unacceptable and outright monstrous forms we take by being the Elder Beast or Warmain by using illusions - which don't actually work on Reality Forming and higher stages, which is to say everyone who actually matters, basically making it's downsides unmitigated for our purpose. I wouldn't be surprised if that includes Elves, and it certainly does includes our allies. This is in addition to possessing Eyes of Kong, a "holy grail" of Heterodoxy, which is especially bad if we decide to got 100% Kong with Elder Beast form.
In addition, we will need to spend time and resources to first develop a form, and then few weeks changing into it, easily losing up to a month on just that. If you plan on visiting Tomb, that may very well mean going inside while process lasts, or much greater chance of Elves folding in meantime.
Besides, Elder Beast heavily edits all not-Cultivation focused organs while Warmain outright turns us into bug monster. I prefer enjoying stuff, and we know Nameless does too.
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Hmm. While I still prefer the Vault, Palimpsest does have a certain appeal as a spell developed by Nameless. The other self-developed spell, the Forge, has seen quite a bit of use and is a cornerstone of our power. That said, I'd still like to know some more specifics:
It says the template form is determined during the time of casting the Diagram. Are we capable of inputting another form, or do we have to settle for a single one until we input further BPs? I.e. can we employ a Combat Form while in the Tomb and switch over to a more Social/Cultivation-focused Form afterwards?
It says the template form is determined during the time of casting the Diagram. Are we capable of inputting another form, or do we have to settle for a single one until we input further BPs? I.e. can we employ a Combat Form while in the Tomb and switch over to a more Social/Cultivation-focused Form afterwards?
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Indecisiveness.
[X] Tomb of the Netherine
[X] Vault of the Ur-Pharoh
[X] Elvegekere's Protector
[X] Tomb of the Netherine
[X] Vault of the Ur-Pharoh
[X] Elvegekere's Protector
DonutAttack
Self-Requested Ban
- Location
- The factory of pastries
The description doesn't seem to allow switching.
Even Further Beyond, the caption. Honestly should be a tag with how many improbable ties we have.
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Well, that depends on whether we can recast the Diagram without writing it anew. Frankly, the spell seems a bit suboptimal without the ability to switch.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Maybe so but I'd rather enhance the one form.
I'd go with Elder Beast I guess, to walk on the knife's edge and play the Fates and Kong against each other. It gives weakness to both but may give us the strength to defeat both as well.
Also just to reiterate on the Vault, we absolutely must choose the optimized monster vault if we are to kill Kong Zang as we desperately need advantages he didn't predict and we have very few avenues for securing those.
DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
From Elder Beast's description:
So it's not even the illusion. We'd probably come out looking uglier for it, but considering how handsome we were born, it doesn't really matter.
DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
Considering how he considered the extremely off chance we would have actually heard the Heroine out instead of doing our best to instant kill her, I am willing to bet he's considered us invading his overgrowth for boosts.
But I doubt he knows that we have the ability to make our own, better, overgrowth.
Also, on Elder Beast apeearance, we can probably make our own Regalia or something that'd make the physical changes look more natural.
I would like to use up my owed build vote for Palimpsest of the Nameless One.
Namless is already very much a heterodox cultivator. Turning back towards orthodoxy now wouldn't make much sense. Also, remember "no matter the cost".
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
We also know that the house of Yong looks poorly upon Heterodox methods.
The eyes at least might be forgiven, it's the greatest success story out of Kong. Elder Beast might as well be a slap in the face, because there's no way that Yong would tolerate someone in power who's a refutation on their methods.
Losing our backing could be a serious loss.
Just like the blunder with the eyes. Downsides are downsides, not an insignificant joke. And Elder Beast is an open, impossible to hide statement of scorn for our origins.
The eyes at least might be forgiven, it's the greatest success story out of Kong. Elder Beast might as well be a slap in the face, because there's no way that Yong would tolerate someone in power who's a refutation on their methods.
Losing our backing could be a serious loss.
Just like the blunder with the eyes. Downsides are downsides, not an insignificant joke. And Elder Beast is an open, impossible to hide statement of scorn for our origins.
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I voted against Eyes of Kong. Not a fan of turning Nameless into some freak show that sacrifices everything on Baenlixnaire's Vengeance. Fates want to turn him into edgy broken monstrosity of a villain for some reason and I have no desire to indulge them.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Not just the eyes. How Nameless has gone beyond at cultivation stages also qualifies as heterodoxy.
I really doubt that the Fates want him to be so dedicated to vengeance. That path would after all have lost us the charmed life if we didn't pay 3 BP and it is rather disadvantageous to the Fates.
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I'm not sure but before Soul Chrysalis he was relatively normal. He got Strain of Heterodoxy only after implanting Eyes and that goes beyond that in pretty disgusting way.
And from what I remember from Rihaku's post it's not just about Vengeance, it's general edginess. Fates are entirely fine with disfiguration of Nameless under Charmed Life but not with his weakening. That is kinda alarming for me.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Sure the Fates want us to be an engine of vengeance.
Tyranshal even told us why. Vengeance makes you predictable, and allows Fate to better lead us by the nose into where it wants us to be.
Don't fear the man who will reliably react in manners you have foreseen. Fear the man who has no levers you can move them with.
It's why Fate fears Kong. He's so self absorbed that no levers exist that can make him play to your tune, save those that only help him more.
Tyranshal even told us why. Vengeance makes you predictable, and allows Fate to better lead us by the nose into where it wants us to be.
Don't fear the man who will reliably react in manners you have foreseen. Fear the man who has no levers you can move them with.
It's why Fate fears Kong. He's so self absorbed that no levers exist that can make him play to your tune, save those that only help him more.
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Enohthree
Hypersane
The eyes give a stain of hetrodoxy but they're also visually impressive, in a 'how do you even have the one in ten thousand Kong Officer eyes' way. Having a weird series of bumps where there's supposed to be smooth skin or whatever is in comparison much more of a malus socially, since it's both not visually good looking and not a clear sign of approved growth. As Hetrodox as they are the Eyes are a known quantity for many people.
>offer your son your very own Forbidden Cultivation
>he ignores it and learns Kong's instead
