Even Further Beyond [Complete]

Then it's weaker in 5 years than the Vault, IMO. We'd have more to gain from a Vault's base forms as well as an unspecified by otherwise OP as any other EFB final form.
The Vault doesn't do anything to mitigate the serious disadvantage (in addition to his hilariously high power) we have against Kong tho? Like, we could be a Stage IV Titan and he'd still fuck us up due to knowing exactly what we can do while we know jack about what he can do.

OTOH Palimpsest removes nearly half the current stage gap between us and Kong at EFB with Vehemence while making sure he doesn't have ability to mindread us. We progress 3 more stages and we'd be in a good position to fight him.

(and Palimpsest build can get 1 BP + Artifact monster generator Vault in forty-five days of training (or thereabouts) and 1 BP. Vault build can't get Palimpsest as easily)
 
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[X] Tomb of the Netherine
[X] Vault of the Ur-Pharaoh
-[X] Go Further Beyond


Because I'm curious about what came before.
 
Instead of Monster dungeon, we can change our FB Vault so it plays to the specifics of the location. If we go for Tomb, get something like

Hab 2
Access 7
Realm 7
Size 3
Sec 5

Uber combat vault. If we want to go to elves, take

Hab 5
Access 4
Realm 5
Size 7
Sec 3

So we can create realm for them to enter.
 
...Just to remind people, this is one of the few situations where we can go to EFB in stages. We do not need to go FB immediately to get it eventually. Given the much-discussed difficulty in saving up for EFB's, this is a substantial reason not to go FB immediately.
 
We should just get a Monster Vault alone. Don't split the focus.
I think it might be fun to go high Realm/Access/Hab in the event that we do end up with a Vault. Make monsters, throw 'em at our enemies, collect loots after both die.

The monsters even scale to us, so it's a pretty cool build! Factory of us-levelled* dragons would be boss.

*at least Titan level!
 
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Btw, since our body would now function as the Vault anchor if we take it as our Liminal, what happens when we enter the pocket dimension? Do we get something like this?
*(With Access 5 Sec 5) Allow storage of the Vault Anchor inside the Vault itself, making access impossible for those without extensive spatial magics

On a separate note, the name of the Tomb made me curious. Kong told us that the Fates murdered the Divinities, but the next question is - what happens to dead gods? Are we due an encounter with the local Neverborn equivalents?
 
Don't forget that we could have made our indestructible, unbreachable or both, but with Enemy Pursuit. With Vault being part of PK, we can make it unbreachable and it being breakable doesn't matter, because if it gets destroyed we already lost anyway.

But yes, we could make it unbreachable and then just enter it and be invincible. I think that combat FB Vault could really really fucking potent if we do end up going into the Tomb.
 
3 entire stages + Sword combat skills + much better Potentiation + removing the eyes, is just too good a set of advantages to give up. If we get that, we get roughly half of what we need to defeat Kong!

[X] Palimpsest of the Nameless One

If we do nothing to mitigate his mind-reading
Mind reading is just what he can do while still in his cocoon. When fighting us, he might very well be able to do far worse than that, so yes, removing the disadvantage posed by the eyes is of great importance.

Getting a Phylactery of Empires is pretty much non-negotiable at this point. Even if we didn't have the face Kong the ubergod, the battle with the Heroine alone would probably wreck the world.
The heroine hasn't yet started to power up. We can try to kill her before that happens. Even after she starts powering up, it will most likely take years before a fight against her would wreck the world. Once we have killed the heroine, we no longer have that loss condition, so collateral damage in the fight against Kong would be safe.
 
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...I am reasonably sure, even with everything, we will still need The Heroine on our side to beat Zang Kong.
 
[ ] Journey to the West
Brokering peace works directly towards our survival condition. There may be another heroine of the Age of Glory around, summoned by the elves. We could probably figure out who it is by searching for the summoner(s). There's also the possibility of contacting other worlds to find an advantage. Opportunity to learn more about Naturalism and Artifice. Finally, Xiaoling loyalty, and her heritage is likely to be important here.

[ ] Journey to the Center
Takes more time than the other options. Guaranteed rewards, bad for our reputation. Is looting our future subjects contributing to the stability of the Empire? Improves combat skills in addition to providing more Cultivation multipliers. Zang Kong is likely to have already learned everything that can be found on this route.

[ ] Tomb of the Netherine
Locating it uses up a Cerebration. The potential Cultivation-negating arts inside are valuable on their own, and there is potential for finding Cultivation-revolutionizing lore inside. However, rewards are not guaranteed. It's also a very dangerous dungeon, so Mastermind points should be generated. It's also too dangerous for Suizhen and Xiaoling.

[ ] Vault of the Ur-Pharao
Very useful for travelling, as well as priceless-treasure spawner, empire phylactery, or garden.

-[ ] Go Further Beyond
4 additional design points (24/25), better Sign Augmentation, and the we no longer need to know the relevant spells for Sign Augmentation, which could be very important. Also better time acceleration than Quickening, but this might be detrimental in some situations - phylactery empire having some internal collapse/revolution at 10x the normal speed? Yikes.
-[ ] Go Even Further Beyond
It's unlocked by taking this as our Liminal spell. Not much else to say.

[ ] Palimpsest of the Nameless One
*Form of Balance
No downsides, be pretty and gain a x1.4 Cultivation modifier. For a Beyonded spell. Meh.
*Form of the Elder Beast
Heterodoxy, better Eyes of Kong development, small malus to complex physical actions - fighting? - and a juicy x2.2 Cultivation multiplier. Attractive option. We have Seeming illusions to minimize appearance drawbacks.
*Form of the Warmain
Be part dragon! Fighty bonus, around 0.7 or 0.8 at Titan level. Good in its niche, but not particularly convincing.
-[ ] Go Further Beyond
+0.5 Stage combat boost to existing benefits. Basically a cost of 1 BP per +0.25, like going Beyond in Cultivation Stages.
-[ ] Go Even Further Beyond
Negates our respawning from phylactery, making us easier to permanently defeat? Sounds like it.
*Form of Virtuosity
+1 Cultivation Stage, x3 Cultivation speed, dampens Fate effects, automatic free Mastermind-enhancement for all plans. The improvement to Cultivation stage from FB is worth 2 BP, the Cultivation speed increase from x2.2 to x3 is possibly worth another one, so the Mastermind thing is around 4? Pays for itself after enhancing 8 plans.
*Form of Vehemence
3 Stages combat boost, 2 steps enhancement to Potentiation boost for a x8 Quickening at 100% (2 steps + 2 steps). It's probably best to take this only after having already gotten a lot of faster growth out of the earlier Beyond Stages, as they are much better for it.

[ ] Elvegekere's Protector
It's a golem. I suppose a strong, loyal, expendable minion would synergize well with dangerous dungeons?

*Jade
This golem does Ming's job. It's probably no longer so expendable if it's doing important administrative tasks.
*Mythril
Speedy fight golem.
*Orichalcum
Esoteric bullshit dampening mobile bunker.
-[ ] Go Further Beyond
Hybridize with a Grand Diagram of Blood, Flesh, or Essence? Behold the mighty Extirpation Golem :cry:
-[ ] Go Even Further Beyond
It's unlocked by taking this as our Liminal spell. Not much else to say.
 
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[X] Tomb of the Netherine
[X] Palimpsest of the Nameless One
-[X]Form of the Elder Beast

Go big or get obliterated. Sounds like a plan to me.

Edit: removed the FB point since it didn't seem necessary to the build.
 
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Rihaku, is there anything stopping us from rolling a dice and letting FATE suggest whichever area is best for us?

They're on our side, after all.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Arcus on Apr 8, 2018 at 4:53 AM, finished with 103 posts and 32 votes.
 
[X] Tomb of the Netherine
[X] Palimpsest of the Nameless One
-[X]Form of the Elder Beast

Elder Beast is prob. better for Cultivation
 
[X] Journey to the West

Dungeon is awesome, but it can wait. Elven empire probably can not.

[X] Vault of the Ur-Pharaoh

As always, the best way to win is to go Meta. Cranking some crazy modifiers from fleshcrafting is nice, but its really just letting us run faster along the exact same path. Best to take a shortcut instead.

While going further beyond is HELLA tempting, It can wait. Truth first.
Once we see clearly (And get bonuses that hopefully make everything more efficient yet again) then we can make new plans.
 
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A point I saw that I must emphasize is that Tomb also gives us MP since there's danger in it. We need a many MP as possible to get Truth efficiently to get our Dao, so Tomb works best with our current course too. The other options are no guaranteed as many MP consistently or at all! We have to play to our strengths to win, and abadoning perhaps the last Dungeon that gets us consistent MP for Truth is not wise.

Also, Rihaku has mentioned the Elves can wait after we so the Tomb.The time argument is on Tomb's side, not the Elves'.
 
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