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Even Further Beyond [Complete]

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[X] Accept Tyranshal's Proposal
[X] Inform the Bleak Ravens
[X] Go Beyond Tyranshal's Extirpation
[X] Bring Xiaoling and Suizhen
 
This vote is really a choice between Baenlixnaier and Tyranshal, isn't it? It's why the non-Beyond version of Extripation grants +0.2 Beyond Points.
 
[X] Accept Tyranshal's Proposal
[X] Inform the Bleak Ravens
[X] Go Beyond Tyranshal's Extirpation
[X] Bring Xiaoling and Suizhen

Seems pretty straightforward. Accept the proposal gets us access to essence diagrams without whatever horrible sacrifice is required and going beyond seems like the sort of thing that might pay off at the climax of a battle when Tyranshal pays us back with some enlightment. Keeping the lackeys with us to benefit from the training time and to bind them to us further seems much more useful than information gathering, especially if we take Cerebration.

Informing the ravens might let us make some more minions and doesn't seem to carry any downsides.
 
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Rihaku said:
So reckless to inform the Bleak Ravens without a plan! You haven't even met Banguo, but Tyranshal assures you the man is crazy!
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I don't trust his character evaluation that much though. After all he doesn't like us!

Honestly I could go either way on that Raven issue but it doesn't seem like there's much they could do to us, if we're the only game in town.
 
[X] Accept Tyranshal's Proposal
[X] Inform the Bleak Ravens
[X] Don't Go Beyond
[X] Send Lackeys Away

Let's accept his proposal, it would be a shame to come this far and leave with only knowledge to show for it. As for spending a Beyond Point to ease the burden of Tyranshal's Imprisonment, it's an utter waste; the Great Sage has weighed his options and found this the most palatable, and in the end it's his choice. An effective loss of 1.2 Beyond Points with only the tenuous benefit of maybe getting to use the spell ourselves, if we fail utterly, is not a worthwhile investment. If we wish to demonstrate altruism and some semblance of a conscience, informing the Ravens is a better choice by far, and with Tyranshal's entrapment of the Patriarch there are potential benefits for us.
 
beowolf said:
The only practical reason to Go Beyond on it is that it's possible that with his senses working, he'll figure out how to send messages or something back. The "can use it on yourself if you're loosing" feature is pointless.
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Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face...

Shard said:
This vote is really a choice between Baenlixnaier and Tyranshal, isn't it? It's why the non-Beyond version of Extripation grants +0.2 Beyond Points.
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Spending heroic amounts of effort on non-vengeful things doesn't sit right with you, but Baenlixnaire's hardly going to actively begrudge your assisting his friend in avoiding eternal solitary confinement...

Thomasfoolery said:
I don't trust his character evaluation that much though. After all he doesn't like us!

Honestly I could go either way on that Raven issue but it doesn't seem like there's much they could do to us, if we're the only game in town.
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Even the death throes of a Reality Forming Cultivator can cause devastating harm!
 
Rihaku said:
Well, who knows if you'll even be offered a Further Beyond Cerebration? Those things take time to write, you know!
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...Does this only mean that some of the spells may not have anything more than a 'simple' Beyond, or that they may not even have that? Because the phrase talking about how we can choose which spells to go Beyond on when we master them implies they can all at least be taken Beyond.
 
[X] Accept Tyranshal's Proposal
[X] Inform the Bleak Ravens
[X] Go Beyond Tyranshal's Extirpation
[X] Bring Xiaoling and Suizhen

Thoughts on going Beyond,
He called us unkindness, which is why he doesn't want to help us. By showing that we are not so unkind so to speak, we have the potential for greater returns.

Also there is the question of characterization. It would begrudge our decency to submit someone to such a fate.
 
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[X] Accept Tyranshal's Proposal
[X] Inform the Bleak Ravens
[X] Go Beyond Tyranshal's Extirpation

Baenlixnaier... Ardos.

(...)

This is a choice between Mercy and Power, and I'm inclined to select the former. We're here for the story, after all. Contemplation in isolation eventually but turns to torment. To contemplate, you must have input - Otherwise it is but exclusion. But to see, and to also Contemplate - The Eternities would not be so unfathomably cruel.

There is no input without output. No output without input. Such is balance.
 
Orm Embar said:
[X] Accept Tyranshal's Proposal
[X] Inform the Bleak Ravens
[X] Don't Go Beyond
[X] Bring Xiaoling and Suizhen

Let's accept his proposal, it would be a shame to come this far and leave with only knowledge to show for it. As for spending a Beyond Point to ease the burden of Tyranshal's Imprisonment, it's an utter waste; the Great Sage has weighed his options and found this the most palatable, and in the end it's his choice. An effective loss of 1.2 Beyond Points with only the tenuous benefit of maybe getting to use the spell ourselves, if we fail utterly, is not a worthwhile investment. If we wish to demonstrate altruism and some semblance of a conscience, informing the Ravens is a better choice by far, and with Tyranshal's entrapment of the Patriarch there are potential benefits for us.
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There's also the tenuous benefit that he might gain enlightenment out there and share some of it with us if we go beyond.
 
I would point out however that we still got Lix to surrender his Hate.

His Vengeance? No, Tyranshal literally just spent the update telling us that Vengeance has severed our choices, and this is why he will limit his aid for us. By going Beyond Lix's vengeance against one who's done nothing to deserve it, by exercising our free will to do what is right rather than what is merely expedient--he might have one final bit of support that he can offer us, and the resources of a Lich of his potential is no small thing. His knowledge alone might be enough to give us something to work with, especially if he's assured that we aren't utterly and irrevocably chained to the cause of Vengeance without any ability to choose otherwise.

And one of the perks of Going Further Beyond the Throne of Stars was to gain wiggle room on the Vengeance.

[X] Accept Tyranshal's Proposal
[X] Inform the Bleak Ravens
[X] Go Beyond Tyranshal's Extripation
[X] Bring Xiaoling and Suizhen
 
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beowolf said:
...Does this only mean that some of the spells may not have anything more than a 'simple' Beyond, or that they may not even have that? Because the phrase talking about how we can choose which spells to go Beyond on when we master them implies they can all at least be taken Beyond.
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The ones relevant to you will likely have Beyond options, but who can say for certain? I haven't written them yet!

andy50 said:
[X] Accept Tyranshal's Proposal
[X] Inform the Bleak Ravens
[X] Go Beyond Tyranshal's Extirpation
[X] Bring Xiaoling and Suizhen

Thoughts on going Beyond,
He called us unkindness, which is why he doesn't want to help us. By showing that we are not so unkind so to speak, we have the potential for greater returns.
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Ahh, you guys are just a bunch of big softies! How do you intend to protect your Lackeys when the other Sects attack, by the way? Tyranshal certainly doesn't seem to think that his pocket dimension will be safe for long, and you're spending all three months working on his Extirpation.
 
Orm Embar said:
An effective loss of 1.2 Beyond Points with only the tenuous benefit of maybe getting to use the spell ourselves,
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That's not the main benefit for it, though. Ignore the narrative argument. The benefit of it is a gamble. It implies Tyranshal may be able to learn things out there. The only reason to mention that is the consideration he may be able to share them with us. Or he might not, but the entire point is that this is beyond the reach of the Divinities, and if he can send anything back, their Fate warping won't have accounted for it. Again, a gamble. Maybe you consider gambles archetypically bad, but don't ignore the existence of the potential reward entirely. It's not even a argument if you don't at least acknowledge the points you're 'arguing' against.

Edit: Ok, why is this funny? I'm just pointing out that he seems to be outright ignoring part of the option that is relevant, not saying that it makes it good.
 
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So what we need to do is write enough omakes about it to get 1.2 beyond points off them. :p

I'm mostly joking. I will still be doing omakes for it, though.
 
Damn, it seems my in-update arguments for inform the Bleak Ravens were a bit strong. But what is really the benefit to you of doing so, especially without a comprehensive plan? It's not like your reputation here is likely to spread with any noticeable speed, and even if you screw them over utterly they'll likely just die anyway. Why expend further effort when you're already busy with the Extirpation? You're even learning a spell that makes material-based Cultivation less relevant!

Also, do you guys have any plans at all to keep Xiaoling and Suizhen safe when the other Sects attack? It's surely quite bold to take this option when you turned down the Legacy Exclusion Zone. And you've already invested so much in them!
 
Any spells we're willing to reject to reduce temptation to go beyond on for truths sake? If we reject 1 we may be able to get out before the attack.

As far as why I'm not informing the ravens? To keep us from getting a potential BP spending chance with them.

[x]Accept Tyranshal's Proposal
-[x]Reject Tyranshal's Vitrification
[x]Don't inform the Bleak Ravens
[x]Bring Xiaoling and Suizhen
[x]Go Beyond Tyranshal's Extirpation
 
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Wonder if we could potentially make an Artifact to clear one of our Grand Diagram slots? The Diagram's not as unforgiving as the Ordinal Spiral; we could discard Tyranshal's Extirpation and replace it with something actually useful for our endeavors, but the process can take weeks if we do it conventionally.
 
[X] Accept Tyranshal's Proposal
[X] Inform the Bleak Ravens
[X] Don't Go Beyond
[X] Send Lackeys Away

Truth at any cost. Don't falter now: the world will demand much of us, and we must be ready to sacrifice.
 
[X] Accept Tyranshal's Proposal
[X] Inform the Bleak Ravens
[X] Go Beyond Tyranshal's Extirpation
[X] Bring Xiaoling and Suizhen
 
I can't help a feeling that this whole situation was entirely inefficient.

Anyway, our Ring allows us to use spell wherever, so it might be possible for us to develop spells in darkness beyond if we do use Expiration. That means that we can get back, possibly.
 
Orm Embar said:
Wonder if we could potentially make an Artifact to clear one of our Grand Diagram slots? The Diagram's not as unforgiving as the Ordinal Spiral; we could discard Tyranshal's Extirpation and replace it with something actually useful for our endeavors, but the process can take weeks if we do it conventionally.
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Lets be honest, Diagram is wayyy more forgiving than Ordinal. Ordinal's choices are irrevocable.. AFAIK. Perhaps Rihaku knew of some ways around the choices - Shield/Seeker is the only one I know of.
 
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