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Res Publica: A Quest of Ancient Rome

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No7sHere said:
Is there any reason why a counter-weight trebuchete is not feasible using roman engineering?
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The basic trebuchet wasn't even utilized by westerners until the Byzantine Empire in the 6th Century. The Byzantines were the successor state to the Roman Empire — of which the Roman Republic was the predecessor.

I'm not saying it's impossible to introduce the trebuchet seven hundred years early, but it would require significant investment and work over multiple updates, most likely after acquiring and greatly leveling up an Engineering skill.*

*shrug*

Though I'm down to write Roman Siege Engineer Quest if you are.

EDIT: Plus, the Roman army already has perfectly viable siege weapons in the form of ballistae and onagers. Any technological advances would likely focus on improving those.

*Or you could launch an insanely expensive and risky expedition over several thousand miles of hostile territory, cross the Middle East and the steppes/India in order to reach China, where the trebuchet has already existed for four hundred years, somehow acquire one, and safely return to Italy and reproduce it.
 
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Fair enough, also being a siege engineer during the roman civil war is honestly not that useful seeing as there were very few sieges.
 
Telamon said:
They believe in the strict seperation of plebeian and patrician, and while they support the continued power of the Senate, it is largely because the Senate is mainly patrician. They believe in a whole lot of concepts that essentially boil down to: "We're on top because we're the most suitable people to lead Rome — if we weren't, we wouldn't be on top." Keeping the balance of society the way it is will ultimately preserve the Republic.

The traditionalists hold fast to the mors maiorum, the way of the ancestors. This is good to do because tradition demands it. The Senate is on top because it's always been on top. They genuinely believe that the Republic is a net good for Rome and her people, and that it's preservation pleases the gods. They generally understand the need for change or reform, as long as it stays fast to the old ways. They especially respect strength, bravery, self-sufficiency, and piety — the virtues of Rome since her founding.
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Thanks! So traditionalist is basically Cato, which is tempting, but I think I will stay with the bandwagon vote and be a starry eyed idealist, hoping that won't hurt our relationship with our patron too much .

Basically rather "democratic" and especially open to Hellenic culture (we would probably prefer Terentius to Ennius or something loke that) and philosphy, but wary and despising of demagogues like Marius and opportunists like Cinna.
 
Eh, I wouldn't expect our opinions on Hellenic culture to be dependant on our politics. Lucullus was both an optimate and (in)famously Hellenised. Marius was a populare but determinedly and harshly Roman.
 
No7sHere said:
Fair enough, also being a siege engineer during the roman civil war is honestly not that useful seeing as there were very few sieges.
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Maybe that's something our kids can do once we've restored the republic/become emperor or whatever. Like John Adams once said: "I must study politics and war that my sons may have the liberty to build sick trebuchets."
 
Caesar said:
Eh, I wouldn't expect our opinions on Hellenic culture to be dependant on our politics. Lucullus was both an optimate and (in)famously Hellenised. Marius was a populare but determinedly and harshly Roman.
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In general I agree with you, but the traditionalist optimate, being very keen on the mos maiorum would be like Cato the younger and praise cabbage over refined dishes or decry the debauchery of having wooden seats for attending theatre. :)

Well maybe not that extreme, but probably less open than other political outlooks.
 
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Yanez said:
In general I agree with you, but the traditionalist optimate, being very keen on the mos maiorum would be like Cato tge younger and praise the cabbage over refined dishes or decry the debauchery of having wooden seats for attending theatre. :)

Well maybe not that extreme, but probably less open than other political outlooks.
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True, but Cato is very much an outlier.

Actually, you know what, just to clarify this for myself. @Telamon Which of the options would you use to describe Lucullus?
 
Caesar said:
True, but Cato is very much an outlier.

Actually, you know what, just to clarify this for myself. @Telamon Which of the options would you use to describe Lucullus?
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Lucullus is a moderate Traditionalist Optimate, while Pompey is/will be a Conservative Optimate. Traditionalists like Lucullus, Cato, and Scaevola all very in how hardline they are and how they interpret said traditions, but all generally skew towards being capable and incorruptible administrators with a hard Republican bent. They usually make for good lawyers due to their firm adherence to how 'things should be'.
 
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Other ideas I had for later in the quest:

Infrastructure improvements: Spam Aqueducts and Roads. Use the Legions on a sort of reservist basis, a week a month so they may tend to their fields, merchant works and families. Perhaps some proto-work shops for better Archers and improve upon the Gladius.

Rebuild Carthage in a Roman Image: Exactly how it sounds. Piss on the memory of our former enemy. Make Hannibal turn in his grave.

Expand into Gaul and Germania: Cut off potential danger before it arises. Take every
man of fighting age (17-35), give him a sword, shield and javelin, and march them as far as the Danube. Pax Romana!

Scipio: See if you can reach out to his now distant family and get some knowledge from his Campaigns against Hannibal and his brother, Bargains. Such knowledge could be invaluable.
 
Telamon said:
Lucullus is a moderate Traditionalist Optimate, while Pompey is/will be a Conservative Optimate. Traditionalists like Lucullus, Cato, and Scaevola all very in how hardline they are and how they interpret said traditions, but all generally skew towards being capable and incorruptible administrators with a hard Republican bent.
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Thanks. That's what I thought, just wanted to be absolutely certain.
 
Say how's the Roman system of mathematics? The extent I know of it is second hand information, mostly consisting of "good enough to build the things they did" and "Roman Numerals and the lack of Zero"


...

Can we invent the number 0? Or other major parts of mathematics?
 
Telamon said:
The traditionalists hold fast to the mors maiorum, the way of the ancestors. This is good to do because tradition demands it. The Senate is on top because it's always been on top. They genuinely believe that the Republic is a net good for Rome and her people, and that it's preservation pleases the gods. They generally understand the need for change or reform, as long as it stays fast to the old ways. They especially respect strength, bravery, self-sufficiency, and piety — the virtues of Rome since her founding.
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Telamon said:
Traditionalists like Lucullus, Cato, and Scaevola all very in how hardline they are and how they interpret said traditions, but all generally skew towards being capable and incorruptible administrators with a hard Republican bent. They usually make for good lawyers due to their firm adherence to how 'things should be'.
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@Telamon, now I'm curious to hear how you'd describe the Idealist faction, who you'd identify as Idealists (would Cicero qualify, or would he be considered a Traditionalist Optimate?), and what character/personality traits are typically identified with Idealist leanings.
 
[X] Plan Cicero
Adhoc vote count started by Japanime on Feb 13, 2018 at 12:46 AM, finished with 78 posts and 17 votes.
  • [X] Plan Cicero
    [X] Plan Hortensius
    [X] Plan Cicero
    [X] Populares
    -[X] Idealist
    [X] The Priesthood
    [X] Law
    [X] Training
    [X] Exhibition
    [X] Recitals
    [x] Plan: Shaping Silvery Spoken Soldier
    [x] Populares: You believe in the freedom and equality of all Roman citizens, in the right of every Roman to his own word and voice. This, to you, overrides all other concerns. You speak to the people, telling them that you might see their dreams fulfilled.
    -[x] Idealist: You do not simply pay lip service to the ideas of honesty and fairness. Plebian or patrician alike, all Romans should stand equally and have their voices heard. For is every citizen not a Roman true?
    [x] The Soldiery The armies of Marius, Suetonius, and Cinna are even now encamped in Rome. Officers, Tribunes, and commanders from over seven legions spend their days and nights whiling away the time while trying to keep their legionnaires at the ready should Sulla return. Brawling and looting is not an uncommon occurrence in the streets near to the camps, and the nights often gleam with fires started by a handful of soldiers who had too much to drink. Associating with these officers is dangerous -- if not to your person, then to your reputation -- but may hold many rewards. Men will fight all the harder for one who has drunk with them and traded blows with them. If your constitution is strong enough to handle it, this may be a good stepping stone to earning the love of the army -- and in Rome, he who is loved by the army is loved by the people.
    [x] Law: Scaevola is the lawyer. He has single-handedly reworked and rewritten many of the most antiquated and obsolete laws of the Republic, and created many of his own. His treatises on civil law and jurisprudence have become almost mythical among Roman advocates in his own lifetime, and his simplification and codification of some of the most complex laws of the Republic served to make him a household name long before he became Pontifex. His speeches stand as some of the finest works of oratory not only of your time, but of Roman history. There is no better teacher in the law, living or dead.(Speech, Oratory, and Law ++++)
    [x] Training: Scaevola has hired a new batch of guards for the the College of the Vestal Virgins, in order to protect the holy priestesses from the depredations of lesser men. Of course, these guards must be thoroughly evaluated and trained to ensure that they are both not a threat to the priestesses and that they are capable of protecting the sacred sisters themselves. Scaevola has placed you in charge of training these men, and has indirectly placed the fate of Rome's holiest women in your hands.
    [x] Debates Men of scholarly or political bent often gather in the Forum to hold debates. Those with a sharp tongue and a quick mind might even win the love of the people by soundly defeating a foe in a public contest of minds, and draw the attention of like-minded men.
    [x] Attend the Senate: Though only Senators may speak, Senate meetings are free for all Roman citizens to attend. In order to learn of the world which you hope to enter, and better integrate yourself with the people you hope to one day count your peers, you sit in on most every Senate meeting held after your arrival to the city.
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Adhoc vote count started by Japanime on Feb 14, 2018 at 7:29 PM, finished with 90 posts and 25 votes.
  • [X] Plan Cicero
    [X] Plan Hortensius
    [X]Plan Education​
    -[X] Proserpina​
    -[X] Negotiation​
    -[X] Scaevola​
    -[X] No Position​
    [x] Plan: Shaping Silvery Spoken Soldier
    [x] Populares: You believe in the freedom and equality of all Roman citizens, in the right of every Roman to his own word and voice. This, to you, overrides all other concerns. You speak to the people, telling them that you might see their dreams fulfilled.
    -[x] Idealist: You do not simply pay lip service to the ideas of honesty and fairness. Plebian or patrician alike, all Romans should stand equally and have their voices heard. For is every citizen not a Roman true?
    [x] The Soldiery The armies of Marius, Suetonius, and Cinna are even now encamped in Rome. Officers, Tribunes, and commanders from over seven legions spend their days and nights whiling away the time while trying to keep their legionnaires at the ready should Sulla return. Brawling and looting is not an uncommon occurrence in the streets near to the camps, and the nights often gleam with fires started by a handful of soldiers who had too much to drink. Associating with these officers is dangerous -- if not to your person, then to your reputation -- but may hold many rewards. Men will fight all the harder for one who has drunk with them and traded blows with them. If your constitution is strong enough to handle it, this may be a good stepping stone to earning the love of the army -- and in Rome, he who is loved by the army is loved by the people.
    [x] Law: Scaevola is the lawyer. He has single-handedly reworked and rewritten many of the most antiquated and obsolete laws of the Republic, and created many of his own. His treatises on civil law and jurisprudence have become almost mythical among Roman advocates in his own lifetime, and his simplification and codification of some of the most complex laws of the Republic served to make him a household name long before he became Pontifex. His speeches stand as some of the finest works of oratory not only of your time, but of Roman history. There is no better teacher in the law, living or dead.(Speech, Oratory, and Law ++++)
    [x] Training: Scaevola has hired a new batch of guards for the the College of the Vestal Virgins, in order to protect the holy priestesses from the depredations of lesser men. Of course, these guards must be thoroughly evaluated and trained to ensure that they are both not a threat to the priestesses and that they are capable of protecting the sacred sisters themselves. Scaevola has placed you in charge of training these men, and has indirectly placed the fate of Rome's holiest women in your hands.
    [x] Debates Men of scholarly or political bent often gather in the Forum to hold debates. Those with a sharp tongue and a quick mind might even win the love of the people by soundly defeating a foe in a public contest of minds, and draw the attention of like-minded men.
    [x] Attend the Senate: Though only Senators may speak, Senate meetings are free for all Roman citizens to attend. In order to learn of the world which you hope to enter, and better integrate yourself with the people you hope to one day count your peers, you sit in on most every Senate meeting held after your arrival to the city.
Click to expand...
 
Publicola said:
@Telamon, now I'm curious to hear how you'd describe the Idealist faction, who you'd identify as Idealists (would Cicero qualify, or would he be considered a Traditionalist Optimate?), and what character/personality traits are typically identified with Idealist leanings.
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Cicero would probably be an Idealist, though an Optimate one, with a few drops of traditionalist. He disliked appeals to popularity and what he saw as manipulating the mob for power (see: everything Catiline ever did, ever) but he firmly believed in the Republic not just because of its traditions, but in the ideal of it as a democratic institution. He did not love the Republic because it was Rome — rather he loved Rome because it was a Republic.*

*Okay and also because it was Roman, but Cicero was hellenized to hell and back anyway. His best friend literally changed his name to Athens.
 
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Telamon said:
Cicero would probably be an Idealist, though an Optimate one, with a few drops of traditionalist.
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So pretty much like us if we go with Plan Cicero?

I mean, we're a patrician who publicly belongs to the Optimate class, whose formative years are being spent studying Roman law and tradition under the quintessential Traditionalist, but whose private sympathies lie with the Idealists who love Rome because she is good.

Works for me! I'm going to keep the Idealist vote (sorry @Caesar, it was a near thing), so no changes on the horizon. Here's a tally.
Adhoc vote count started by Publicola on Feb 13, 2018 at 6:47 PM, finished with 81 posts and 18 votes.
  • [X] Plan Cicero
    [X] Populares
    -[X] Idealist
    [X] The Priesthood
    [X] Law
    [X] Training
    [X] Exhibition
    [X] Recitals
    [X] Plan Hortensius
    [x] Plan: Shaping Silvery Spoken Soldier
    [x] Populares: You believe in the freedom and equality of all Roman citizens, in the right of every Roman to his own word and voice. This, to you, overrides all other concerns. You speak to the people, telling them that you might see their dreams fulfilled.
    -[x] Idealist: You do not simply pay lip service to the ideas of honesty and fairness. Plebian or patrician alike, all Romans should stand equally and have their voices heard. For is every citizen not a Roman true?
    [x] The Soldiery The armies of Marius, Suetonius, and Cinna are even now encamped in Rome. Officers, Tribunes, and commanders from over seven legions spend their days and nights whiling away the time while trying to keep their legionnaires at the ready should Sulla return. Brawling and looting is not an uncommon occurrence in the streets near to the camps, and the nights often gleam with fires started by a handful of soldiers who had too much to drink. Associating with these officers is dangerous -- if not to your person, then to your reputation -- but may hold many rewards. Men will fight all the harder for one who has drunk with them and traded blows with them. If your constitution is strong enough to handle it, this may be a good stepping stone to earning the love of the army -- and in Rome, he who is loved by the army is loved by the people.
    [x] Law: Scaevola is the lawyer. He has single-handedly reworked and rewritten many of the most antiquated and obsolete laws of the Republic, and created many of his own. His treatises on civil law and jurisprudence have become almost mythical among Roman advocates in his own lifetime, and his simplification and codification of some of the most complex laws of the Republic served to make him a household name long before he became Pontifex. His speeches stand as some of the finest works of oratory not only of your time, but of Roman history. There is no better teacher in the law, living or dead.(Speech, Oratory, and Law ++++)
    [x] Training: Scaevola has hired a new batch of guards for the the College of the Vestal Virgins, in order to protect the holy priestesses from the depredations of lesser men. Of course, these guards must be thoroughly evaluated and trained to ensure that they are both not a threat to the priestesses and that they are capable of protecting the sacred sisters themselves. Scaevola has placed you in charge of training these men, and has indirectly placed the fate of Rome's holiest women in your hands.
    [x] Debates Men of scholarly or political bent often gather in the Forum to hold debates. Those with a sharp tongue and a quick mind might even win the love of the people by soundly defeating a foe in a public contest of minds, and draw the attention of like-minded men.
    [x] Attend the Senate: Though only Senators may speak, Senate meetings are free for all Roman citizens to attend. In order to learn of the world which you hope to enter, and better integrate yourself with the people you hope to one day count your peers, you sit in on most every Senate meeting held after your arrival to the city.
Click to expand...
 
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