In order to actually push through any serious reforms without becoming the very thing we're trying to prevent we need more than a few powerful allies, we'd need a serious majority in the senate as well as enough collective military power to prevent rebellions by overly ambitious individuals. The first thing we really need is for the senate to directly finance several legions.
Res Publica: A Quest of Ancient Rome
- Thread starter Telamon
- Start date
- Original Historic
- Location
- Italia
First Triumvirate - Wikipedia
Second Triumvirate - Wikipedia
Historically, Republican-Era 'dream teams' tend not to end well.
Oh, and as for the 'tutoring' option, I would urge you to think on who, exactly, is a child in Rome right now.
Uhm... you're right
my bad
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We should assume of the militia charged with ending this slave revolt....it will provide us a chance at glory, it will remove us from the dangerous environs of Rome and it will allow us to build up some experience commanding troops. Furthermore, I'd like us to report the Pompei's plot to the Marians. Though perhaps not outright.....when Marius comes down several potential competitors of ours will be removed from the chessboard.
xa na xa
A.E.I.O.U. - Antarticae est imperare orbi universo
- Location
- σ Octantis
See, I see this a major drawback of this option. We've barely arrived in Rome, and now we'll run away at the first whiff of danger, leaving all the ties we've just begun to weave behind?
I was thinking this would be a good option if it involved the right family, but if the pupil himself is someone special... that's even better.
I think being a tutor also practical benefits, it gets us more latitude to do what and when we want... after all we would decide what's good for the young'un!
I'm still sceptic to Advocacy for the same reasons I stated in the previous vote, it still feels premature.
So I think it should be one of those two:
Article: Tutoring [] Already well-versed in the laws, you begin to rent out your services as a tutor and a teacher 'trained by Scaevola', which is a mark of quality in and of itself, and held in high regard by most educated Romans of status.
Article: The Debate Fields [] You head to the Forum to begin debating men of wealth, skill, and class on political issues and viewpoints. These debates are significantly more organized than the impromptu ones held all over the city, and feature some of Rome's most up-and-coming political orators.
I see this as both having the same purposes (making contacts, practising our knowledge), but as a choice between broad and shallow and narrower but focused in method. Do we want many new friends and acquaintances, or a deeper alliance with some specific faction?
I'm leaning towards tutoring, because it sounds like more personal and intriguing character drama.
So Marius lives. Huh. I'm... not actually sure how that affects things. He may well not be up to the strain of a proper campaign, and Carbo and Young Marius used the magic of his name to recruit OTL as well. The latter might be more efficacious with him still alive, but Marius might well prove to be less willing to unleash the Samnites. Eh, nothing we can do about it now. I'm more concerned about Pompey, unRoman practically Gallic upstart that he is. He has the better part of three veteran legions in his hand at the moment, and if he dies they're up for grabs. We're probably going to want to try and (sigh) keep Pompey alive.
On a more heartening note, we have made immense progress with the law, and people know our name now. Slightly less heartening is that Recitals went as well as I expected, and Training didn't go perfectly, but hey, now we know what a Socratic dialogue is, Atticus is a good guy to know, and we didn't end up recruiting guys likely to rape the Vestals. On the whole, I'll take it.
Anyway, plan discussion:
- Conspirators: We can't act unilaterally here. Everything we do reflects on Scaevola, and quite possibly endangers him and his family. We have to tell him, and he's better at dealing with this sort of thing anyway. Besides, running to your mentor when you find yourself on the fringes of a conspiracy is (or will become) an honoured Republican tradition. (See Caelius Rufus)
- A Name For Yourself:
- Tutoring is the only option here that I don't find attractive, actually. Based on what @Telamon has said, I think it's likely to involve this asshole: Publius Clodius Pulcher. (He should be ~ten years younger than us.) The Claudians are infamously arrogant, and Clodius himself is poison, but he does have three unwed sisters, and a wealth of family connections.
- Advocacy is just generally nice, considering we now have the skills to make a serious go of it, and it has good synergy with Never Too Early To Run.
- Slave Rebellion allows us to uncap Command, which is a good bonus, gives us a social link with Young Marius (by all accounts, not his father's bootlace), raises our profile as a military man, and might allow us to prevent Marius Jr. from potentially bungling things. Depending on how Pompey's conspiracy works out, it might also be useful to us to diplomatically absent ourselves from Rome for a while, however much that vexes me. Finally, as a rural land owner, there's a degree of personal appeal here.
- Debate Fields looks like a good way to expand our web of contacts and keep our finger on the Republic's pulse. Potentially very good for our reputation as well. Probably where we'll find Cicero, too.
- Too Little Time, So Many Duties: 'Home and Hearth' and 'To Have And To Hold' are probably premature. We can hold off for a while, I think, until we have a better view of the political landscape. Web-building is potentially very useful, as is Selling Wine, but I think the synergy of 'Old Friends' and 'Never Too Early To Run' in building up a base separate to Scaevola can't be ignored. Dad's old contacts are probably Popularis, which is potentially very useful in staying abreast of events, and starting to build our electoral machinery will probably enhance the reputation gains from our other actions, which will in turn make it easier to build an electoral machine.
Currently I'm debating between two broadly similar potential plans, with the only difference being whether we go slave hunting or take up advocacy.
-Report the meeting to Scaevola
-Advocacy/Slave Rebellion
-Old Friends
-Never Too Early To Run
Thoughts?
On a more heartening note, we have made immense progress with the law, and people know our name now. Slightly less heartening is that Recitals went as well as I expected, and Training didn't go perfectly, but hey, now we know what a Socratic dialogue is, Atticus is a good guy to know, and we didn't end up recruiting guys likely to rape the Vestals. On the whole, I'll take it.
Anyway, plan discussion:
- Conspirators: We can't act unilaterally here. Everything we do reflects on Scaevola, and quite possibly endangers him and his family. We have to tell him, and he's better at dealing with this sort of thing anyway. Besides, running to your mentor when you find yourself on the fringes of a conspiracy is (or will become) an honoured Republican tradition. (See Caelius Rufus)
- A Name For Yourself:
- Tutoring is the only option here that I don't find attractive, actually. Based on what @Telamon has said, I think it's likely to involve this asshole: Publius Clodius Pulcher. (He should be ~ten years younger than us.) The Claudians are infamously arrogant, and Clodius himself is poison, but he does have three unwed sisters, and a wealth of family connections.
- Advocacy is just generally nice, considering we now have the skills to make a serious go of it, and it has good synergy with Never Too Early To Run.
- Slave Rebellion allows us to uncap Command, which is a good bonus, gives us a social link with Young Marius (by all accounts, not his father's bootlace), raises our profile as a military man, and might allow us to prevent Marius Jr. from potentially bungling things. Depending on how Pompey's conspiracy works out, it might also be useful to us to diplomatically absent ourselves from Rome for a while, however much that vexes me. Finally, as a rural land owner, there's a degree of personal appeal here.
- Debate Fields looks like a good way to expand our web of contacts and keep our finger on the Republic's pulse. Potentially very good for our reputation as well. Probably where we'll find Cicero, too.
- Too Little Time, So Many Duties: 'Home and Hearth' and 'To Have And To Hold' are probably premature. We can hold off for a while, I think, until we have a better view of the political landscape. Web-building is potentially very useful, as is Selling Wine, but I think the synergy of 'Old Friends' and 'Never Too Early To Run' in building up a base separate to Scaevola can't be ignored. Dad's old contacts are probably Popularis, which is potentially very useful in staying abreast of events, and starting to build our electoral machinery will probably enhance the reputation gains from our other actions, which will in turn make it easier to build an electoral machine.
Currently I'm debating between two broadly similar potential plans, with the only difference being whether we go slave hunting or take up advocacy.
-Report the meeting to Scaevola
-Advocacy/Slave Rebellion
-Old Friends
-Never Too Early To Run
Thoughts?
...Julius Caesar?!
He was born in 100 BC. It's 86 BC now, making him 13-14 years old.
...Julius Caesar?!
He was born in 100 BC. It's 86 BC now, making him 13-14 years old.
I initially thought so too, but it'd be unusual for him to be just starting his tutoring now. As I said above, I think it's Clodius.
Edit: It could also be his older brother Appius, now that I think on it further. He's about six years younger than us.
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- Location
- Texas
Voting is now open.
- Location
- il bel paese dove il sì sona
- Pronouns
- He
I would advise against getting anywhere close to Clodia: she could be fun, in a way, if we identify her with Catullus' Lesbia, but it really riaks ruining our emotional stability and, what's worse, reputation.
I would also support telling Scaevola and offering to participate to Pomey's meeting (thing is gotta be dangerous).
For the rest... I am really tempted by Slave Rebellion, otherwise advocacy loola the best.
I also thibk that getting an independent source of income should be prioritized over beginning with our spy network or political machine.
Oh God no. Literally the only time we should associate with Clodia is if it ever becomes necessary to assert our superiority over Metellus Celer (or whatever poor unfortunate ends up married to her) by seducing his wife. I mentioned her and her sisters only for the sake of completeness.
(I joke, but this was a thing.)
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[X] Plan Weather Eye
The Conspirators
[X] Report the meeting to Scaevola.
A Name For Yourself
[X] The Debate Fields
Too Little Time, So Many Duties
[X] Selling Wine
[X] Web-building
Reasoning: take a cautious approach to Pompey, and lay the groundwork for the future in both money ('Selling Wine' to find a trustworthy estate manager) and information ('Web-Building' to let Proserpina set up her spynet). Also, 'Debate Fields' to earn a reputation and (hopefully) meet Cicero. See more of my reasoning here and here.
EDIT: I am willing to be persuaded on 'A Name For Yourself' -- Telamon has hinted that 'Tutoring' will have some major story hooks depending on what child we end up teaching, and 'Advocacy' might let us start our career as a lawyer before we become a tribune. I don't want to deal with a minor slave rebellion, though -- that option doesn't synergize with our best stats and skills, and forces us to leave Rome in the interim.
The Conspirators
[X] Report the meeting to Scaevola.
A Name For Yourself
[X] The Debate Fields
Too Little Time, So Many Duties
[X] Selling Wine
[X] Web-building
Reasoning: take a cautious approach to Pompey, and lay the groundwork for the future in both money ('Selling Wine' to find a trustworthy estate manager) and information ('Web-Building' to let Proserpina set up her spynet). Also, 'Debate Fields' to earn a reputation and (hopefully) meet Cicero. See more of my reasoning here and here.
EDIT: I am willing to be persuaded on 'A Name For Yourself' -- Telamon has hinted that 'Tutoring' will have some major story hooks depending on what child we end up teaching, and 'Advocacy' might let us start our career as a lawyer before we become a tribune. I don't want to deal with a minor slave rebellion, though -- that option doesn't synergize with our best stats and skills, and forces us to leave Rome in the interim.
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[X] Plan Coming Man
The Conspirators
[X] Report the meeting to Scaevola.
A Name For Yourself
[X] Advocacy
Too Little Time, So Many Duties
[X] Old Friends
[X] Never Too Early To Run
In the end, the prospective synergies won me over, because it really never is too early to run. More of my reasoning is here.
The Conspirators
[X] Report the meeting to Scaevola.
A Name For Yourself
[X] Advocacy
Too Little Time, So Many Duties
[X] Old Friends
[X] Never Too Early To Run
In the end, the prospective synergies won me over, because it really never is too early to run. More of my reasoning is here.
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@Caesar, I agree that there's some nice synergy between 'Old Friends' and 'Never Too Early.'
However, I think you're discounting the comparable synergy between 'Selling Wine' and 'Web-building'. The great difficulty for our long-term future, is that we are thoroughly terrible at managing money. We need someone we can trust to help take care of our estate(s) and business dealings. The problem is, anyone competent enough to do a good job as a steward, would also be competent enough to steal from us without our noticing. That's why it makes sense to spend time with Prosperina setting us our 'intelligence network', since she'll be able to keep her eye not just on Rome but on our household as well.
Plus, 'Web-building' is literally why we brought Proserpina to Rome in the first place. She wasn't the best administrator, or the best bodyguard, or the best servant. She was our father's agent and spynet manager, and we didn't want to enter Rome without having some idea of what life-and-death conspiracies were going on around us. Before we leave Rome for our years as a tribune, let's get her spynet set up so we can make the most of it on our return.
However, I think you're discounting the comparable synergy between 'Selling Wine' and 'Web-building'. The great difficulty for our long-term future, is that we are thoroughly terrible at managing money. We need someone we can trust to help take care of our estate(s) and business dealings. The problem is, anyone competent enough to do a good job as a steward, would also be competent enough to steal from us without our noticing. That's why it makes sense to spend time with Prosperina setting us our 'intelligence network', since she'll be able to keep her eye not just on Rome but on our household as well.
Plus, 'Web-building' is literally why we brought Proserpina to Rome in the first place. She wasn't the best administrator, or the best bodyguard, or the best servant. She was our father's agent and spynet manager, and we didn't want to enter Rome without having some idea of what life-and-death conspiracies were going on around us. Before we leave Rome for our years as a tribune, let's get her spynet set up so we can make the most of it on our return.
I am open to persuasion on Web Building. It's another long term project that I think we should really get up and running (and I hadn't even considered its utility in keeping our house in order. Good catch.) Wine Selling, though... Money is massively important, yes, but we have a (small, admittedly) monthly income as it is, and valuable assets. We can, if necessary, get by with loans, so long as we're seen as a good electoral prospect. That means having clients and a reputation.
Medium to long term, we're going to want to increase and diversify our income stream and bolster our stewardship, I agree, but the vineyard may not be the best way to do so. There's going to be at least one fairly large scale war raging in Italy in the near future, which means there is a non-negligible chance of the vineyard being damaged or ruined. If we can establish a good enough reputation as an advocate, though, we can start to accumulate enough "gifts" to at least have the trappings befitting our rank.
Mostly, though, I want a base of clients and contacts not dependant on our relationship with Scaevola.
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Fair points, but my main argument for 'Wine Selling' was not based on the idea that the vineyard is going to be a primary long-term source of income. At this point, I'm primarily looking at personnel -- who can we trust, who has the experience running an estate or business, who can we rely on? 'Wine Selling' probably won't give us that many talents per year, but it will give us a steward/ally who (thanks to Web-Building) we can trust for any businesses or estates we control in the future. That's why I consider it one of the best long-term options we can pick -- to find a steward/manager before our income and assets grow too big, so we can test their trustworthiness and develop a stable relationship before we have much to lose. "Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much."
As for campaigning for Tribune, recall the three positions we might seek:
The 'broad-striped tribune' (tribunus laticlavius) is the most prestigious and most powerful office that we can hold, and our chances of getting elected are almost entirely dependent on Scaevola's patronage. Yes, seeking out our father's allies might help, since he was a patrician and (probably?) an Optimate, but 'Never Too Early' explicitly states it would involve appealing to the plebian/Populares faction, which would only be useful for a 'thin-striped' military tribune.
Frankly, 'Never Too Early' might cost us a tribunate, since we need to leverage our connections with Scaevola, who is an Optimate with a strong distrust for plebes (and for good reason, considering it was a populares mob that nearly killed him in the last update).
[X] Plan: Gaining Experience
[X] Report the meeting to Scaevola. A powerful individual, he will take care of it in his own manner, without being as...final as the Marians might.
[X]Slave Rebellion
[X]Old Friends
[X]Selling Wine
Uncapping our command skill would be nice and we're going to need both money and more contacts before anything else.
[X] Report the meeting to Scaevola. A powerful individual, he will take care of it in his own manner, without being as...final as the Marians might.
[X]Slave Rebellion
[X]Old Friends
[X]Selling Wine
Uncapping our command skill would be nice and we're going to need both money and more contacts before anything else.
- Location
- Earth
[X] Plan Foundations
The Conspirators
[X] Report the meeting to Scaevola.
A Name For Yourself
[X] Slave Rebellion
Too Little Time, So Many Duties
[X] Web-building
[X] Selling Wine
--------------------
The premise it fill out our weak points through our household while working on our strengths.
Slave Rebellion gives us a chance to develop our command abilities in what could be deemed as a relatively "safe" scenario. Our command stat is currently limited to average, considering our characters martial inclinations we'll likely be seeing combat in the future. It's better to cut our proverbial teeth here, in low risk engagement that risk it latter down the line in an engagement where the stakes are much higher. Such as the potential attack on Scaevola in the future, or on ourselves. It also gives us experience that could grant us a valuable command during Spartacus Rebellion, or any other major slave revolt down the line due we'd have prior experience. Not to mention the chance to befriend Marius the Younger, we do after all have a mutual acquaintance through Atticus.
Web-building is pretty simple, we need to have our own information network. One we can rely on to help us vet candidates before we recruit someone to manage our finances. We chose Prosperina as the head of our household for a reason. Let her set this up, and we could have an early warning system for any attacks planned on us or our allies.
Selling Wine because we're in dire need of a steward. It synergies well with Web-building allowing Prosperina to vet our new steward, while also expanding our household and network. Income is important since the less we have coming in the less we can put into developing our spy network/rumour mill.
The Conspirators
[X] Report the meeting to Scaevola.
A Name For Yourself
[X] Slave Rebellion
Too Little Time, So Many Duties
[X] Web-building
[X] Selling Wine
--------------------
The premise it fill out our weak points through our household while working on our strengths.
Slave Rebellion gives us a chance to develop our command abilities in what could be deemed as a relatively "safe" scenario. Our command stat is currently limited to average, considering our characters martial inclinations we'll likely be seeing combat in the future. It's better to cut our proverbial teeth here, in low risk engagement that risk it latter down the line in an engagement where the stakes are much higher. Such as the potential attack on Scaevola in the future, or on ourselves. It also gives us experience that could grant us a valuable command during Spartacus Rebellion, or any other major slave revolt down the line due we'd have prior experience. Not to mention the chance to befriend Marius the Younger, we do after all have a mutual acquaintance through Atticus.
Web-building is pretty simple, we need to have our own information network. One we can rely on to help us vet candidates before we recruit someone to manage our finances. We chose Prosperina as the head of our household for a reason. Let her set this up, and we could have an early warning system for any attacks planned on us or our allies.
Selling Wine because we're in dire need of a steward. It synergies well with Web-building allowing Prosperina to vet our new steward, while also expanding our household and network. Income is important since the less we have coming in the less we can put into developing our spy network/rumour mill.
Except we already have a steward, don't we? Mancina. I was interpreting 'Wine Selling' as just getting an overseer for the vineyard.
As for Never Too Early, it isn't about being elected tribune. It's about having a massive, finely honed, efficient operation when we're running for the offices that matter. We're basically starting from almost nothing in that regard, and we need to rectify that. And Scaevola should understand. Everyone electioneers, and I very much doubt that taking the option about building ourselves a following will have us go around saying "Wow, that Saturnius fellow had some great ideas, right guys?" (We're publicly Optimate and privately Idealistic. Mob rule and demagoguery are poison to us.)
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Report the meeting to Scaevola. A powerful individual, he will take care of it in his own manner, without being as...final as the Marians might.
[X] Slave Rebellion
[X] Selling Wine
[X] Web-Building
[X] Slave Rebellion
[X] Selling Wine
[X] Web-Building
Walpurgis Knight
Guardian of Folkvang
- Location
- Union of Cascadian Socialist Republics (UCSR)
[X] Plan: Gaining Experience
