I want more COfD content fuck IP and copyright law. my idea for cooperate owned copyright is thirty years and then it is sent into compulsively licensing.

where anyone can use the text if they pay royalties to the actual creators.

in exchange for monetary making something possible companies should have a limited economic exclusive right to it. thirty years is when almost any work will make a profit

There is a considerable amount of fan made material. I would recommend checking out the Onyx Path forums and searching for some of the homebrew collections there. Here is one particularly comprehensive homebrew hub for Vampire the Reqiuem: https://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum...vampire-the-requiem/8627-requiem-homebrew-hub

This tv tropes page also contains several fan-made game lines. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/FanWorks/TheWorldOfDarkness

Princess the Hopeful and Genius the Transgression are particularly significant examples as they are entirely functional game lines that rival or surpass much of the existing canon material.
 
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Princess the Hopeful and Genius the Transgression are particularly significant examples as they are entirely functional game lines that rival or surpass much of the existing canon material.
I can't speak at all for Princess because I never cared to read it, but calling Genius functional is already giving it way more kudos than it deserves, let alone say that it's better than canon material (except maybe Beast? haven't read that one either).

It exists and it's complete is all you can legitimely say about Genius as far as I am concerned.
 
I can't speak at all for Princess because I never cared to read it, but calling Genius functional is already giving it way more kudos than it deserves, let alone say that it's better than canon material (except maybe Beast? haven't read that one either).

It exists and it's complete is all you can legitimely say about Genius as far as I am concerned.

Care to elaborate on its flaws? I thought it was a very well designed game once you take into consideration that the extreme levels of power at the higher levels were intended as a feature rather than a flaw.
 
I want more COfD content fuck IP and copyright law. my idea for cooperate owned copyright is thirty years and then it is sent into compulsively licensing.

where anyone can use the text if they pay royalties to the actual creators.

in exchange for monetary making something possible companies should have a limited economic exclusive right to it. thirty years is when almost any work will make a profit

The Storytellers Vault already exists for that sort of thing. Though as mentioned it's important to note None More Dark Productions also has some official writers of cofd in them including there roman book having Rose Bailey as a writer for it.

As mentioned Dave, Eric and Chris who is Acro are doing work with Chris mentioning that he has plans to release all the patreon stuff in the vault someday when he's not being busy.

Princess the Hopeful and Genius the Transgression are particularly significant examples as they are entirely functional game lines that rival or surpass much of the existing canon material.

Princess I really wasn't much into it but it did grew on me a bit, tone wise I don't think it works well with cofd with how black and white it is in comparison to every other gameline.

As for Genius I was a massive fan back in the day but my tastes have changed and it certainly didn't help that fans of those gamelines were pretty vocal to put it at best (If you want a taste of it the two critic links both have one being pretty vocal in attacking the people criticize genius.)

I can't really generally put into words of why but these two links kinda sums it up more that I can.

Here's a review of it that talks about it's history and where it came from. Mind you the review sticks to one chapter but Arcaneart does talk about the history of why someone made genius. (Mainly has to do with awakening and the concept of science mage not being a thing in comparison to ascension.)


Here is a critic that describes it as a very narrow game and it honestly is seeing as it just concentrates on science or more specifically mad science which I've also realized it's pretty narrow in comparison to say mage or even deviant the renegade for that matter.


I will also point out that looking at the comments trying to defend genius it certainly has aged poorly especially the fact that it uses madness a lot.

The Horror of Genius is a more personal Horror - the dread of knowing your mind is not entirely under your control and that the grand visions of possibility you see are crippled (perhaps terminally) by your own madness.
 
the way Beast: the Primordial is written reminds me of Monster Girl Encyclopedia. a hentai setting. (i'm wondering what the rules are at discussing sexual content, on SB any kink based content is banned even if it isn't directly pornographic. but from what I read SV has more lax content restrictions)

warning this is going to involve lot's of disturbing sexual content including of children and sexual abuse. it's porn logic but still

Monster Girl Encyclopedia is a erotic setting created by a man who was really into monster girls and did not like infidelity or the idea of monster girls killing men.


it is also divisive online because of it's fetishistic of rape and child sexuazltion. not even anime's she's a thousand year old vampire who looks like a child. but actual chronological children,

the backstory of MGE is that before it was a stranded fantasy world with fantasy races and monsters. with the world being based on a cycle where humans build up and then a demon/monster lord would rise up kill lots of humans until a Hero kills the Maou and scatters the monsters then the cycle repeats. but in MGE a succubus and her human hubby manages to overthrow the cycle making every monster a succubi like creature who feeds by sex.

what MGE also has is that most monsters get a "husband" by raping a man. some Monsters don't rape. but they are the minority. of course it's hentai world logic where rape isn't treated as seriously because it's a fetish.


MGE has a similar issue with Beast where the Mammo/Beast are portrayed as moral superiors who do no wrong and anyone trying to oppose the rapists/abusers is seen as bad and wrong despite the harm they cause/
 
the way Beast: the Primordial is written reminds me of Monster Girl Encyclopedia. a hentai setting. (i'm wondering what the rules are at discussing sexual content, on SB any kink based content is banned even if it isn't directly pornographic. but from what I read SV has more lax content restrictions)

warning this is going to involve lot's of disturbing sexual content including of children and sexual abuse. it's porn logic but still

Monster Girl Encyclopedia is a erotic setting created by a man who was really into monster girls and did not like infidelity or the idea of monster girls killing men.




what MGE also has is that most monsters get a "husband" by raping a man. some Monsters don't rape. but they are the minority. of course it's hentai world logic where rape isn't treated as seriously because it's a fetish.


MGE has a similar issue with Beast where the Mammo/Beast are portrayed as moral superiors who do no wrong and anyone trying to oppose the rapists/abusers is seen as bad and wrong despite the harm they cause/


I agree with your point on the word of god on the moral rightness of the Beasts "teaching" being a deeply creepy aspect of the setting and one that had initially turned me off the game line. It gets even worse when you consider the later introduction of the Inguma who have the focus on "teaching" the fear of the other and are thus super-powered sponsors of racism.

There does seem to be a very simple fix though as you can remove the Teaching focus by either leaving the moral purpose of the Beasts as something they have to decide for themselves or using the Justifications homebrew that I linked earlier. This doesn't require any significant mechanical changes so it can be easily implemented.
 
The teaching aspect, naturally, was added after the Kickstarter previews dropped and people started talking about how creepy and predatory and pointlessly edgy the beasts were, in apparent contrast to how the tone of the book wanted them to be received. It was supposed to make them more sympathetic.
 
I feel much the same way about Beast and greatly enjoy this homebrew expansion as it resolves the more icky issues of the Beasts being the "Good Guys" because of their word of god mandate to teach humanity through fear and trauma. The addition of this Justification system adds more nuance by removing the word of god that the Beasts are right in defining themselves as teachers and providing additional options for players who want a different motivation for their Beast character. It brings in a lot more of the whole "Monsters we are lest Monsters we become" theme from Vampire: The Masquerade through a greater emphasis on how the Beasts handle their need to perform horrible acts to feed a monstrous hunger and how they justify living as a Beast to themselves.
Honestly, Most of those are pretty good ideas for people playing beast though I particularly find the Chained fascinating.
The Chained- those who justify through stories. The Chained have almost completely lost their human lives. They are totally subsumed by the Horror and the monomyth, with only a few scraps of memories keeping them from undergoing the merger. They act exactly like the monster they were devoured by, and follow its story to the letter. They track down and kill those who don't reblog chain posts, or stalk the woods looking for teen couples, or climb through mirrors when their name is said three times in the dark.
Their justification, such as it is, is that they are simply fulfilling their role in the story- they didn't write the tale, they're just playing their part as well as they can. They see the Dark Mother as the primal antagonist, the incarnation of everything humans work against, the enemy in every tale. They aren't her children, they're her minions. They can tell when someone fulfils the requirement of their story nearby, but also suffer a permanent anathema laid on them by the human subconscious.

I feel they would be work better as a failure state for the beast rather than a splat. Like if they fall below the threshold of whatever equant of the humanity bar then they'll become a shell of they former self forever doomed to repeat the "script" laid out by they archetype. Acting more like an SCP or abnormality from Labotamy Copration.

Princess the Hopeful and Genius the Transgression are particularly significant examples as they are entirely functional game lines that rival or surpass much of the existing canon material.

Personally I think those two fan games are a bit overrepresented on when it comes to discussion about wod fan games, like nobody is talking about kindred of the east: the relentless age which reworks the Lore of kindred of the east to be less problematic, werewolf the apocalypse: Hearthbound which deals with the kinfolk relationship with in the various tribes and the fight for they right to be seen as equals and the upcoming werewolf the essentials by the same author which from what I've gathered from the author tumblr is basically a whole fan made editon of wta.
 
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I agree with your point on the word of god on the moral rightness of the Beasts "teaching" being a deeply creepy aspect of the setting and one that had initially turned me off the game line. It gets even worse when you consider the later introduction of the Inguma who have the focus on "teaching" the fear of the other and are thus super-powered sponsors of racism.

There does seem to be a very simple fix though as you can remove the Teaching focus by either leaving the moral purpose of the Beasts as something they have to decide for themselves or using the Justifications home-brew that I linked earlier. This doesn't require any significant mechanical changes so it can be easily implemented.
the Iguma "teach" people to be afraid of outsiders.

that's the worse lesson ever.
Personally I think those two fan games are a bit over-represented on when it comes to discussion about World of Darkness fan games, like nobody is talking about kindred of the east: the relentless age which reworks the Lore of kindred of the east to be less problematic, werewolf the apocalypse: Hearthbound which deals with the kinfolk relationship with in the various tribes and the fight for they right to be seen as equals and the upcoming werewolf the essentials by the same author which from what I've gathered from the author Tumblr is basically a whole fan made edition of W:TA.
man fixing KOTE seems like it would take a lot of effort. I salute anyone who does that.




also Ninth Age Werewolf edition
 
man fixing KOTE seems like it would take a lot of effort. I salute anyone who does that.

Kinda yes and no? The Relentless Age is a fantastic release, especially lore wise, but KotE already mostly only has a couple of key underlining issues that all its many problems stem from. If you drop the "Asian people have different souls" BS and the awkward attempts to simultaneously segregate and crowbar its (clearly distinct) setting into '90s VtM's greater metaplot then you're mostly just left with a version of Vampire that gives its players more incentive to interact with other worlds. (The way that every other post-VtM splat does).
 
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Kinda yes and no? The Relentless Age is a fantastic release, especially lore wise, but KotE already mostly only has a couple of key underlining issues that all its many problems stem from. If you drop the "Asian people have different souls" BS and the awkward attempts to simultaneously segregate and crowbar its (clearly distinct) setting into '90s VtM's greater metaplot then you're mostly just left with a version of Vampire that gives its players more incentive to interact with other worlds. (The way that every other post-VtM splat does).
yes KOTE had nothing to do with Cainites. they where totally different creatures that the only thing they had in common with Cainites is they have Parasitic methods of feeding.


the same thing with Hseian. who where not creatures of the Dreaming but some weird type of spirit. IDK why they where in the Changling line.

the Werewolf, Wraith, and Mage books where better as it was about Wraiths, Fera, and Mages that lived in East Asia. still stereotypical but they where the same species.

many people criticized the idea that different types of East Asian monsters getting along with each other considering the current tensions between Japan, Korea, and China. but many of the current hatred between those three and other Asian nations is relatively new coming from the 1900 and up,

not that people in what is currently East Asia always got along but the same thing with any area.

for a long period of time Korea and Japan where obsessed with Chinese culture importing aspects of Chinese culture.
 
Wildly enough, The Relentless Age's author (Hsienfan) is currently working on a fan update/replacement of the Hsien. From what I remember reading, I think this one will connect them with Changling's dreaming? Or at least some types of Hsien are very similar to Changlings, even if their particulars are interpreted differently between cultures.

This was from an early draft, though, so who can say if that's still the plan.

There's actually optional rules for something similar in The Relentless Age as well, where you can run Cainites as just the Hungry Dead as viewed through a western cultural lens (and with The Rite of Embrace as a major ritual that shortcuts the whole "having to escape from hell" business).
 
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Wildly enough, The Relentless Age's author (Hsienfan) is currently working on a fan update/replacement of the Hsien. From what I remember reading, I think this one will connect them with Changling's dreaming? Or at least some types of Hsien are very similar to Changlings, even if their particulars are interpreted differently between cultures.

This was from an early draft, though, so who can say if that's still the plan.

There's actually optional rules for something similar in The Relentless Age as well, where you can run Cainites as just the Hungry Dead as viewed through a western cultural lens (and with The Rite of Embrace as a major ritual that shortcuts the whole "having to escape from hell" business).
It's more reinterpreting changeling from a hsein point of view, honestly. Whether or not Dreamborn philosophy is correct is very much up in the air, and there's good reasons to think it's wrong.
 
If you drop the "Asian people have different souls" BS.


You're talking about how the Dharmas, and it's exclusive to Asians in base KOTE? Because that's not the case for restless age:

Can you play as a non-Asian Hungry Dead?

The answer is yes. People all over the world go to hell and return, and none of the Dharmas are closed off on account of one's racial or ethnic background.

It's worth noting that, given a long enough time span, concepts like "racism" and "resentment over colonialism" aren't so cut and dry-- Vietnam, for example, struggled with Chinese imperialism for centuries longer than they ever struggled against the French and Americans. Even if the young have legitimate reasons to hold on to grudges, the older Hungry Dead who teach the Dharmas often don't think in such terms; they've seen too much come and go. Refusing to teach a new Hungry Dead the glorious way of the Resplendent Crane, simply because he's a white Canadian named Smith? That feels like a dereliction of one's heavenly duties, not a righteous stance.

With that said, there are certain things to keep in mind if you want to play a non-Asian Hungry Dead:

1) Your game is probably set in urban California. With some isolated and rare exceptions which will be discussed later, the Hungry Dead don't have a society or culture native to Europe or the Americas. The world west of India is a Cainite world, and the Hungry Dead who rise within it have a very strong incentive to see themselves as Caitiff or as tragically abandoned Sabbat shovelheads. Only places where the Dharmas have made inroads, like California (and to a much lesser extent in London and New York, under the heavy shadow of the Camarilla), are where the Hungry Dead have a greater chance to be found and taught what they really are.

2) Your character is very likely to have ties to an East Asian, Southeast Asian, or South Asian culture. While a wandering Ravnos can teach your character the Pure Illusion-Truth, or your character could get tangled up with a Celestial Tribe cult or some Scorpion Eaters hiding out in Mexicali, it's a bit harder to simply luck one's way into the other Dharmas. In California, the Petals of Virtue are deeply embedded in Chinese-American culture, while the Chosen of God are among the Pakistani and Indian Muslim community, just to name two examples. Rather than a prohibition, this is simply an invitation to think deeply about your characters connections and what matters to them.

3) You're unusual, but you're not unique. The reach of Hungry Dead civilization has at times extended into Russia and into the Central Asian steppes, through the lands of eastern Persia and into the edges of Europe. Other characters are sure to note that you're different from the usual mold-- But by default, there is no assumption that you will be seen as a unicorn or an abomination, unless you specifically want to tell stories with those kinds of problems.
 
Actually, in Exalted vs. World of Darkness, it is localized to Asia, but it's because some people in Asia fucked up a really long time ago and got cursed by the gods. If your ancestors move out of Asia, they're still vulnerable, and if your ancestors moved to Asia they're vulnerable (I think it's five generations either way before you either stop having to worry about it or start having to worry about it).
 
Actually, in Exalted vs. World of Darkness, it is localized to Asia, but it's because some people in Asia fucked up a really long time ago and got cursed by the gods.
Hmm, the last time I read it I could swear it said something to the effect of;
"Why don't Hungry Dead show up outside of Asia? They do, but Cainites tend to off them before they get their footing. And vice-versa on Cainites in Asia."
 
Reread it; it's in both editions. It's three generations, though, not five; I was wrong about that part.

Where? I'm looking at the revised version, and the section on the nature of hungry dead is as a follows:

ExWoD said:
Before diving into the crossover questions, let's
take a moment to establish the assumptions Exalted
vs World of Darkness holds for how the Hungry Dead
come to exist in the first place. Or, in plain language:
Why do the Hungry Dead only appear in Asia?

The official answer preferred by most traditional
courts of the Quincunx has to do with the Middle
Kingdom being the center of the cosmos, and a place
of clearer spiritual refinement than the barbaric West;
or else holds that those outside of the borders of Asia
lack the spiritual fortitude to claw their way free of
Hell; or some similar bit of racist self-aggrandizement.
All of these theories are flatly incorrect. The minds
and souls of the people of Asia differ in no way from
those of everyone else in the world, nor are they in any
way changed or ensorcelled by dwelling where they do.

So: Why do the Hungry Dead only appear there?
The real answer is this: They don't. The Hungry Dead
are in no way exclusive to Asia. The phenomenon of
damned souls escaping from realms of torment and
crawling back into their corpses is global. It happens
everywhere, and has happened everywhere since well
before the advent of written history.

When newly reborn, the Hungry Dead are almost
uniformly feral, flesh-devouring cadavers. Monster-
hunters, panicked mortal mobs, and other monsters
have destroyed these unruly corpses since time
out of mind. Kindred are especially likely to run into
them and to dispatch them as a threat to their Masquerade,
either mistaking them for childer of Caine
that have lost their battle with the Beast, botched attempts
at the Embrace, or simply shrugging them off
as one more oddity in a nightscape full of them. Those
few Hungry Dead that battle their way back to sapience
are left without a society to welcome them, a framework
for survival, or any clear idea of what they are.
They rarely last long.

The Hungry Dead hold court over the Asian nights
because those are the lands where a critical mass of their
kind were able to wrest themselves out of feral mindlessness,
develop systems of behavior to stave off a return
to that miserable state, and construct a society that captures
and civilizes newly-risen flesh-eaters until they can
comport themselves as vampires rather than shambling
zombies. Most crucially, they established their earliest
philosophies and courts without competitive pressure
from the Kindred, a very similar sort of monster occupying
the same predatory niche, who were still branching
outwards from the Fertile Crescent during this period.
It is largely the Kindred who have prevented the
development of societies of the Hungry Dead west of
the Indian subcontinent, prevailing and predominating
through their advantages of faster and more efficient
reproduction, rebirth into an established relationship
with a potential tutor on hand, and less complicated,
more easily-developed Disciplines.

As the Hungry Dead spread out from their traditional
ranges in search of new hunting grounds and
places of power, they encounter feral corpses where
they think to look for them: in Chinatowns, Little Indias,
and other ethnic enclaves around the world. They
call these wayward monsters kànbujiàn: lost brethren
arising far outside the borders of the Middle Kingdom.
In truth, they would find such creatures wherever they
took the time to look for them, but this knowledge has
not yet become widespread among even the learned
scholars of the Demon People.

So, it's a global phenomenon that happens to people of all ancestries (later there is a bit about how you don't even need to go to one of the 1000 Hells, specifically, any hellish realm will do), and the hungry dead's ties to Asia are incidental: it's where the first of them managed to overcome the first stage of their unlife as a hungry animal and discover enough of their nature to stand against various threats. The lack of vampires helped.

There is a talk about heavenly curse in a later section, but it doesn't specify any particular group of people as the target or talks about generations:

ExWoD said:
Perhaps, then, a better question might be: Why do
the Hungry Dead appear at all? Why should a soul that
has escaped the clutches of damnation in a place like
Yomi Wan, Malfeas, or any of the other various hellrealms
in the Spirit World or farthest reaches of the
Underworld be able to crawl back into its body and
rise again, much less refine itself into a being of supernatural
power and even enlightenment?

According to the legends of the Quincunx, once
upon a time Heaven set its champions to oppose the
horrors of the night – it's a familiar tale, yes? Heaven's
divine champions conducted their wars and diplomacy
all across the face of Creation. They fought many
enemies of the gods, from wicked spirits to rampaging
beasts the size of mountains. In time, they fell to infighting.
After moving from triumph to triumph, they
became idle and indolent. Eventually, they succumbed
to the seductions of the enemies of Heaven. The Princes
of the Earth stole the life-force of their subjects to
increase their own majesty, defiled the land to power
their rituals, outraged the people, and hurled blasphemies
and offenses at the gods. Heaven retaliated by revoking
the very breath from the lungs of these heroes,
and in its anger hurled a curse upon the world so that
its champions would henceforth be drawn from the
ranks of the vile and the damned.

Was this the fall of the Exalted? The Dragon-Blooded
do not know. Surely, it parallels many of their own
legends, but then, both the lore of the Terrestrial Exalted
and that of the Wan Kuei agrees that history moves
in cycles, repeating its triumphs and tragedies.
Perhaps the history of the Hungry Dead is the history
of the Exalted. Or perhaps the sins of the Chosen
came earlier, and were even more severe.
 
Honestly, the way I handle things, it's a matter of (spiritual) geography more than any other factor.

The Thousand Hells are patchwork realms ruled by spirits of dire power. The Yama Kings tore chunks out of the Spirit World and the Underworld, kludged those chunks together and mortared them with thousands of years worth of tormented souls.

Those who managed to claw their way out of one of the Thousand Hells have their very souls twisted by what they underwent and what they became to escape.

This isn't unique. If spirits like the Yama Kings(IIRC, originally spirits of punishment and justice that became corrupted and fed off the torment they cause) did something broadly similar to create their own equivalent of the Thousand Hells, eventually they'd have souls manage to escape and those souls would be Wan Kuei.

Even in canon, I believe, Mikaboshi expanding the influence of the Wicked City to San Francisco caused Hungry Dead to start rising up there.

There's nothing metaphysical that prevents it from happening elsewhere. The wicked spirits of the rest of the world simply chose different routes to power as a result of innumerable differences in circumstance, all of which being their own unique little blights on the world.
 
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