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White Wolf's World of Darkness

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Amidatelion said:
The other thing about insatiables sometimes, or even concurrently, is how they apparently refer to "irrational fears." Which is a curveball and a half. Beasts have been representing irrational fears on and off since the corebook, and now you're making that the insatiable thing? Doesn't that contradict the previous section on Moments? One of the Insatiables is a literal goddamn internet troll called "Null Snyper." One of them is a killer clown monster. That sure puts a wrench in the gears of the whole "ancient fears older than man" thing.
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Yeah Insatiable seem pretty poorly constructed ? Their ancient fears from before humanity but ones a Gamergate chick and another's a evil clown wow so ancient.

it seems like the writers weren't communicating or just forgot what they where writing which happens to me because ADHD.
I thought Beasts where primdiol fears? It's in the name!
 
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When you bring up the idea of Insatiables being a series of poorly coordinated concepts, it's easy to see the faultlines. From what I'm told, the development for beast was quite difficult and uncoordinated with a tangle of clashing visions for what the end product was even going to be.

As for heroes, it's not like there's none that I find interesting, but that whenever they strike a nuanced spot with heroes it seems to be mostly by accident. Most sample heroes range from "no likable traits, just a prick" to "wait why is this even an antagonist, they're unironically in the right."
 
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Amidatelion said:
When you bring up the idea of Insatiables being a series of poorly coordinated concepts, it's easy to see the faultlines. From what I'm told, the development for beast was quite difficult and uncoordinated with a tangle of clashing visions for what the end product was even going to be.
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It's almost like the lead developer was let off for some strange reason. What could it be?
 
Konradleijon said:
Yeah Insatiable seem pretty poorly constructed ? Their ancient fears from before humanity but ones a Gamergate chick and another's a evil clown wow so ancient.
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It's not their Horrors though. The evil clown is an evil clown but that's not his monstrous form. And actually in a refreshing take none of his evil has anything to do with the fact he is a clown.

Personally I find him rather clever if uninspired. They took the Primordial Seas moment and created a killer whose modus operandi is to drown you in the stimuli of the circus before killing you. That's much better than any Cthulhu expy.

Also it's an evil clown who explictly doesn't attack children. That's bound to throw PCs from his tracks.

Edit: Rereading yeah, you can make him everything but a clown. You could play him as a hypermarket vigil or something like that. The keyword is a monster that hunts you in crowd-filled locations and turn the crowds against you.


Null Spyder I agree should not be an Insatiable. Still I maintain a monster feeding from cyberbullying is pretty spot on for a 21st century monster. She makes me thing of a very petty version of the Furies.
 
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Konradleijon said:
it seems like the writers weren't communicating
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I heard (secondhand) that is is exactly what happened with the Beast corebook. The planning doc was an email chain that no-one had entirely read so people came away with vastly different ideas about what was going on, leading to clashing tones and a bunch of contradictory stuff. This was apparently not an unusual problem for Onyx Path development but it peaked with Beast, and the fallout from that Kickstarter led them to tighten up their editing and project management standards afterwards. Also the abuse revelations came out a while after the book was published.
 
ngreennz said:
I heard (secondhand) that is is exactly what happened with the Beast corebook. The planning doc was an email chain that no-one had entirely read so people came away with vastly different ideas about what was going on, leading to clashing tones and a bunch of contradictory stuff. This was apparently not an unusual problem for Onyx Path development but it peaked with Beast, and the fallout from that Kickstarter led them to tighten up their editing and project management standards afterwards. Also the abuse revelations came out a while after the book was published.
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this is why in any project a good manager/project leader is important and necessary so you don't get crunched fueled development ala Cyberpunk 2077. Or disjointed messes. Project managers are really underrated.
 
It could be intention, people mixing OWOD and COfD lore is common, or it could be a intentional flaw to prove the illusion v-tubers as people.

any of you guys ever mix mechanics and or lore?
 
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The more old I get the more cringe the Old World of Darkness becomes. With so many sloppy research factors. Amd stupid childish shit
 
Krazyfan1 said:
not sure how a giant corrupt company that has stocks in most businesses is childish?
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The fact that most of it's executives and employees are Captain Planet villains and not even trying to hide it?
Black Dog Games as a whole?
That they should be hemorrhaging cash to pay off the no doubt absurd number of lawsuits leveled against them but somehow are still in the black?
 
Sydonai said:
That they should be hemorrhaging cash to pay off the no doubt absurd number of lawsuits leveled against them but somehow are still in the black?
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In earlier editions they had help from literal financial wizards. So that's that. Plus most of their products aren't tainted, only one in a thousand is. Throgh that is a lawsuit in the making. But IRL corporations get away with supporting active Genocides so you know it isn't that unrealistic.
Krazyfan1 said:
Like what?
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their interesting portrayals of foreign cultures. Like the Uthra Tribe named after a word/creature your not suppose to say. And mostly resembles a Bane in werewolf terms. From the Followers of Set which have nothing to do with the Egyptian god what so ever. To the Titanic being the flagship of obvilion. And the writers of the werewolf game not researching where wolves live.
 
Konradleijon said:
In earlier editions they had help from literal financial wizards. So that's that. Plus most of their products aren't tainted, only one in a thousand is. Throgh that is a lawsuit in the making. But IRL corporations get away with supporting active Genocides so you know it isn't that unrealistic.
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Yeah.
Given what IRL corporations can do, it turns out captain planet villains aren't that unrealistic after all.


Konradleijon said:
their interesting portrayals of foreign cultures. Like the Uthra Tribe named after a word/creature your not suppose to say. And mostly resembles a Bane in werewolf terms. From the Followers of Set which have nothing to do with the Egyptian god what so ever. To the Titanic being the flagship of obvilion. And the writers of the werewolf game not researching where wolves live.
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Fair enough.
wonder if later editions will be able to change that a bit?
 
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Sydonai said:
The fact that most of it's executives and employees are Captain Planet villains and not even trying to hide it?
Black Dog Games as a whole?
That they should be hemorrhaging cash to pay off the no doubt absurd number of lawsuits leveled against them but somehow are still in the black?
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I meeeaaaaaaaan.

Remember how Exxon was nationalized after it pushed the crews on its tankers into absurdly long shifts and absurdly tight schedules to pad their bottom line - and didn't use the two-hull model that they should have to safeguard the ocean from the unholy hell poison their ships were transporting - and they ended up irrevocably defiling the world's biosphere and turning a vast swathe of coastline into the teaser trailer for Death Stranding?

Oh, and remember how the current heir to the DuPont Chemical fortune was given a life sentence after he raped his 3-year-old daughter and confessed to having possibly raped his 5-year-old son, as well?

And who can forget the footage of the Koch brothers getting perp-walked after it came out that they'd literally calculated out the average rate of death for workers in their non-OSHA-compliant factories, and refused to make them safer because it would take more money than the projected cost of paying hush money to their victims' families?

Pentex's most unrealistic feature is that the board members actually have a grand plan to go JENOVA after they've finished killing the planet, rather than just being depraved psychopaths who'd rather kill the world than sacrifice the slightest iota of power or privilege or momentary pleasure.
 
Konradleijon said:
But IRL corporations get away with supporting active Genocides so you know it isn't that unrealistic.
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Krazyfan1 said:
Yeah.
Given what IRL corporations can do, it turns out captain planet villains aren't that unrealistic after all.
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GardenerBriareus said:
I meeeaaaaaaaan.
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I would like to note that the complaint wasn't "it's unrealistic", but rather "it's stupid childish shit".
"It's no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense."
 
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Pentex annoys me because it's such a childish critique of capitalism. I don't have an issue with Pentex being cartoonishly evil, I have an issue with them being cartoonishly evil for no reason. Real corporations do all sorts of awful shit, but they don't do it for the sake of being evil, they do it because they materially benefit. Real companies pollute the environment because it's cheaper than the alternative. Pentex pollutes the environment because Satan told them to.
 
Don Alverzo said:
Pentex annoys me because it's such a childish critique of capitalism. I don't have an issue with Pentex being cartoonishly evil, I have an issue with them being cartoonishly evil for no reason. Real corporations do all sorts of awful shit, but they don't do it for the sake of being evil, they do it because they materially benefit. Real companies pollute the environment because it's cheaper than the alternative. Pentex pollutes the environment because Satan told them to.
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I mean, yes. That's kind of the point.

Werewolf: the Apocalypse is a furry edgy 90s comic. It's "What if Captain Planet was an edgy werewolf and went and eviscerated Looten Plunder?".

If you want a (somewhat) more realistic look at the complicated facets of pollution and interactions while also being a werewolf who fights spirits, look instead at Werewolf: the Forsaken.
 
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My understanding is that Werewolf the Forsaken is centered on the idea of protecting the environment. The Oaths of the Moon that act as the moral code for the Forsaken leaves room for a wide variety of ideologies and perspectives on human civilization. The depiction of the Spirit World is also far different as it portrays the Spirits as alien beings who act to pursue their own personal goals in a way that can be moral or immoral depending on the circumstances. The Forsaken are only obligated to treat Spirits as the enemy when their nature makes them into a pressing threat to humanity or a disruptive presence in the local Spirit World ecosystem.

It is perfectly feasible to play a Werewolf who is opposed to environmentalism and is actively fighting Spirits that are seeking to preserve Nature, but still maintains a high-level of Harmony and Status in Werewolf Culture. A Forsaken Werewolf can be a partisan of any cause and their story doesn't need to include any Nature vs Civilization conflict. This seems to be a reflection of the general movement of the NWOD away from the apocalyptic confrontations Good and Evil that characterized much of the OWOD to a more limited focus on personal struggle where everyone has to find their own cause.
 
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