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White Wolf's World of Darkness

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So what's up with the Son of Ether? When discussing an updating of the Traditions to contemporary society, the SOE got made fun of most elsewhere and I don't get it. I never read anything about them.
 
Nikkolas said:
So what's up with the Son of Ether? When discussing an updating of the Traditions to contemporary society, the SOE got made fun of most elsewhere and I don't get it. I never read anything about them.
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Their paradigm is one of holding discarded scientific theories and rank pseudoscience as true to power their magic. This has aged incredibly poorly in these days of climate change denial and a resurgent anti-vaccination movement coinciding with a global pandemic. Science denial is bad, actually, and the people who believe that The Man is covering up the real science have been shown to be irresponsible and dangerous. The SoE celebrate these attitudes and tries to present it as heroic.

Also the whole Science! thing was like 15 years ago, it's getting really old.
 
Shit speaking of the Sons of Either there most be some Magi that believe in Phernolgy and other racist pseudo scienctist. Also I'm picturing a Technocrat slapping a Anti-vaxxer Verbrana
 
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Though it's kinda bizarre that the Technocracy isn't given at least some of the psuedo-science or 'science' that goes on, considering how there's some of it that's mainstream, or supported by powerful corporations, or etc etc.

The Sons of Ether being discredited psuedoscience, including racist and sexist and etc drivel, and the Technocracy supporting studies that show that actually the current economic order (or gendered order, or etc) is right, just, good, and pure (and natural and unqestionable) would actually make sense but doesn't seem to really get brought up.
 
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The Etherites pursue pseudoscience as power, but that doesn't necessarily mean they reject current science, they just view it as the Technocrats limiting everyone.

So in this case they would be fine with vaccines, but they'd be scratching their heads and asking why the Technocracy isn't setting up air filter towers to disperse the noxious miasma, or distributing essential oils to the population, or making portable versions of those cure-all electromagnetic therapies that used to be all the rage.
 
The Laurent said:
The Sons of Ether being discredited psuedoscience, including racist and sexist and etc drivel, and the Technocracy supporting studies that show that actually the current economic order (or gendered order, or etc) is right, just, good, and pure (and natural and unqestionable) would actually make sense but doesn't seem to really get brought up.
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yeah the Sons of Either should have a group of massive racists and actual Nazis that measure people skulls and make black people dumber.
 
To be fair since Ascension was first published in the 90s , people that believe in "science alternatives" stopped being quirky and started being harmful and people with actual political power. See Anti-vaxxers
 
Asthetically the Society of Ether is Steam/Diesalpunk. Given that under the technocracy all the traditions are actively hunted down and oppresed its not hard at all to emphisise the punk part of that name. Using out of date science theories would be more like "my steam engine can power a gient mecha" then climate denial or anti-vax (both of which are very new phenomina scentifically speaking).
 
I'm not a huge fan of the SteamPunk aesthetic, tbh. It's ok, but limiting, when we should have a lot more atompunk etherites around.

The etherites' schtick isn't just pseudoscience, it's abandoned sciences too, or just things that are "awesome but impractical" within the Technoparadigm. Giant Robots, Jetpacks, steam-powered etherships, torsion-field powered telekinesis, Mind rotes based on Freudian/Jungian psychology... I think they have a lot of creative potential when they're not just being treated as Girl Genius rejects.

It's not an original take at all, but there are probably tons of etherites that are still upset they didn't get their wonderful atomic future of the fifties, and fought tooth and nail to prevent the discrediting of things like the magical EM drive.
 
Amidatelion said:
The etherites' schtick isn't just pseudoscience, it's abandoned sciences too, or just things that are "awesome but impractical" within the Technoparadigm. Giant Robots, Jetpacks, steam-powered etherships, torsion-field powered telekinesis, Mind rotes based on Freudian/Jungian psychology... I think they have a lot of creative potential when they're not just being treated as Girl Genius rejects.
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interesting Science not being confined into what's "practical" and profitable that's pretty cool
 
Amidatelion said:
I'm not a huge fan of the SteamPunk aesthetic, tbh. It's ok, but limiting, when we should have a lot more atompunk etherites around.

The etherites' schtick isn't just pseudoscience, it's abandoned sciences too, or just things that are "awesome but impractical" within the Technoparadigm. Giant Robots, Jetpacks, steam-powered etherships, torsion-field powered telekinesis, Mind rotes based on Freudian/Jungian psychology... I think they have a lot of creative potential when they're not just being treated as Girl Genius rejects.

It's not an original take at all, but there are probably tons of etherites that are still upset they didn't get their wonderful atomic future of the fifties, and fought tooth and nail to prevent the discrediting of things like the magical EM drive.
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I guess it depends how far back their invocation of "abandoned science" goes. Pull out some Ancient Greek science be pretty cool. The way Mage works invokes a pretty famous theory about how science fundamentally changes with culture and time. The Greek science was true for them, our science is true for us, etc..

In any event, I'll try to read up more on them. Their book is prett yfar down my list, though. Still, appreciate all the replies and info.
 
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Lupercal said:
Asthetically the Society of Ether is Steam/Diesalpunk. Given that under the technocracy all the traditions are actively hunted down and oppresed its not hard at all to emphisise the punk part of that name. Using out of date science theories would be more like "my steam engine can power a gient mecha" then climate denial or anti-vax (both of which are very new phenomina scentifically speaking).
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The entire original run of Mage: the Ascension predates the heyday of the steampunk pop culture phenomenon. And the thing is not that the text explicitly says that they're antivaxxers and climate change deniers, but the fact that they code that way: the people today who reject establishment science as controlled by nefarious groups and propose alternative solutions are kinda terrible people. That form of contempt for real science has some undertones that have become increasingly uncomfortable as science denial has become mainstream.
 
Eukie said:
The entire original run of Mage: the Ascension predates the heyday of the steampunk pop culture phenomenon. And the thing is not that the text explicitly says that they're antivaxxers and climate change deniers, but the fact that they code that way: the people today who reject establishment science as controlled by nefarious groups and propose alternative solutions are kinda terrible people. That form of contempt for real science has some undertones that have become increasingly uncomfortable as science denial has become mainstream.
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Anti-vaxxers and Climate deniers are also groups controled by those in power. Climate deniers and anti-vaxxers fit better as Syndicate patsies dedicated to internal warfare with the Progenitors.
 
Yeah, these sorts of attitudes don't come out of nowhere, their deliberately cultivated by people in power who materially benefit from these sorts of beliefs. Getting any sort of sense of what specific sort institutional power that the various traditions and the technocracy have, other then 'not a lot' and 'a lot' respectively, is like pulling teeth but it's hard for me to believe that the Sons of Ether are MORE in bed with Exxon executives then the fucking syndicate.
 
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Hope I'm not interrupting, but I want to toot my horn a little and make you all aware of an RPG project I'm working that's somewhat related to WoD, or at least takes a lot of inspiration.

What does everyone think about Creepypasta?
 
grommile said:
this is a bit like saying "what does everyone think about memes?"

like, the quality on creepypasta is ridiculously variable.
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Alright, I should clarify.

What would you describe as a generally bad CP? What about a good one? What are the trends you noticed?

This will be important later, It's more than just me messing around...
 
Sara said:
Yeah, these sorts of attitudes don't come out of nowhere, their deliberately cultivated by people in power who materially benefit from these sorts of beliefs. Getting any sort of sense of what specific sort institutional power that the various traditions and the technocracy have, other then 'not a lot' and 'a lot' respectively, is like pulling teeth but it's hard for me to believe that the Sons of Ether are MORE in bed with Exxon executives then the fucking syndicate.
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I mean, another thing that hasn't aged well is the assumption that the scientific establishment marches in lockstep with the banks, big business, and government.

The-Fall-Guy said:
Alright, I should clarify.

What would you describe as a generally bad CP? What about a good one? What are the trends you noticed?

This will be important later, It's more than just me messing around...
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Just tell us what you're going for, we're not here to do homework about what makes good horror short stories.
 
grommile said:
there are actual antivaxxers and epidemiology deniers in the US House of Representatives.
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Well, yes, but I think the deliberate cultivation of antivax sentiment is a relatively new phenomenon. It was much more of a grassroots thing even just a year or two ago. Not that there wasn't the occasional grifter promoting alternative medicine or something, but it wasn't an organized and well-founded effort like climate denial.

In general, I feel like the weird contradictions of stuff like the Technocracy promoting climate science and also promoting oil CEOs that deny climate science is an outgrowth of oMage (and, frankly, a lot of oWoD) being a bit... thematically confused, I guess. The Technocracy weren't originally conceived of with any clear thought or message behind them besides "'the man' is bad," and even then there's no consistency regarding what "the man" actually is. They're just a morass of 90's conspiracy theories shoved together with no real attempt to find a through line, so you get a lot of situations like that. The Technocracy is responsible for all scientific advancement but also institutional science denial. They're responsible for capitalism and patriarchy, while also controlling the academia that pushes Marxism and feminist theory. They're responsible for climate change and pollution, but they also control the scientific community and regulatory bodies that are desperately trying to fight it. The list just goes on and on.
 
Eukie said:
Just tell us what you're going for, we're not here to do homework about what makes good horror short stories.
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Probably been beating around the bush for too long. Sorry.

Me and some friends are trying to make a Creepypasta Expanded Universe RPG heavily inspired by World of Darkness, most notably Hunter: The Vigil, since the focus is less on playing the monsters, cultists, and killers as much as playing an everyday dude or dudette fighting against the insanity.

To that end, I might need some help perfecting the formula. This seems like a good place to start.
 
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The-Fall-Guy said:
Probably been beating around the bush for too long. Sorry.

Me and some friends are trying to make a Creepypasta Expanded Universe RPG heavily inspired by World of Darkness, most notably Hunter: The Vigil, since the focus is less on playing the monsters, cultists, and killers as much as playing an everyday dude or dudette fighting against the insanity.
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Are there any mechanical changes? Because that sounds like just a campaign of Hunter: the Vigil. An admittedly interesting campaign with a unique aesthetic and a fun gimmick, but something you could run right out of the box with the base rules. "Everyday dude or dudette fighting against the insanity" is basically the elevator pitch for Hunter already.

Not trying to shoot down your idea, I just want to know what makes it special.
 
Eukie said:
I mean, another thing that hasn't aged well is the assumption that the scientific establishment marches in lockstep with the banks, big business, and government.
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It doesn't, but the Technocracy isn't just a influential part of the scientific establishment, it's also a influential part of the banks, and big business, and government atleast to some extent. Obviously it doesn't directly control of the latter three anymore then it does the former, but the idea that the Syndicate has no ties to finance and powerful corporate structures? That the NWO exerts absolutely no control over intelligence agencies or news media or various mainstream western political parties? That the VE doesn't have a prescence in both national space programs and private ones? That the Progentiros don't have fingers in pharmaceutical companies among various other biology related enterprise? That ItX doesn't have anything to do with silicon valley or the defense industry among countless other things?

That doesn't mesh well with any portrayal of the technocracy I've read.
 
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