White Wolf's World of Darkness

[Space Penguin]

Don't know. Maybe it just has angels able to trick mages. I wouldn't be surprised if it caused a couple of those reality rewrites (I don't have a source this is a gut feeling). And you could always write that off as Demons/Angels having metaphysical primacy because it's Demon if need be.

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Ah, so it could be that Demons/Angels and Machine is stronger then mages cause they are said to be so in their own book.

A valid interpretation.

Well that's the Neoplatonism. I find nMage much more intersting than oMage and the two have opposite metaphysical schemes. Plato's philosophy isgreat because the truth is literally out there. Objectivity and reality exists beyond our opinion. Consensus is, well, the total opposite. If everyone was a Nephandi, there goes the universe.

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Well its more complicated then that.

Some nephandhi do want total universal non-existence while others want hell universes so make the current universe hell or destroy the current and then make a new one.

Still, oWoD has its cults. I found this just now:
Cults of the Sabbat - The Sabbat of OWbN

Good reading.

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OWOD has tons of cults and secret societies.

I do however wish that OMage has more Eldritch abominations like NMage does though.

Like this guy:

"The Prince of 100,000 Leaves is an alternate history where a particularly terrible Egyptian cult grew powerful enough to alter the course of the world, creating a world where atrocities are committed on a daily basis, cannibalism is revered as the most sacred of acts, and all great cities are enormous temples to mad gods constructed from the bones of sacrificial victims who died (and continue to die) in unspeakable agony. It was so abharrant that it was aborted from reality into the Abyss, where it became sentient (the sentience personified by the name Prince of 100,000 Leaves, among others) and began actively seeking to enter reality. The means through which it can do so is to manifest fragments the pages of its entire history that were compiled by an insane Egyptian priest thousands of years ago. If the full history of the Prince is compiled in the Fallen World, than it will overwrite history. It is actively worshipped by the Red Word, a cult of mad cannibals who seek out the fragments. Gathering fragments together can cause certain manifestations from the anti-history to appear, like spirits of balefire, spirits of cannibalism which are regal rather than feral, and temples for the Red Word."

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This sounds wonderful.

I'm genuinely impressed by the guts it takes to say everything Leftists believe is vindicated because the super evil tyrants of the world made it so.

Granted, this was ten years ago, a little before the "get your politics out of my game (and replace them with my politics)" crowd got really loud and forceful.

Still, a little on the nose perhaps? I hope no Conservative wants to play this game.


Also I deleted this post and thought of putting it in the Mage thread but it says it's for Ascension so....? I dunno what to do. Just gonna put it here because it's continuing the conversation I was having in here.

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World of Darkness has always been left leaning. This is nothing new. They have even done punk for both. Just also inserted the idea for OWOD that just cause you oppose the man doesn't mean you're any better or anything you do matters or will make things better or you're right.

I personally prefer OWOD cause you can support the Wyrm or Nephandhi. NMage doesn't have that. I find that boring. But NMage has other interesting elements and lore like the Prince I mentioned above so whatever.

As for people not playing?

I'm fairly conservative and I fucking love Mage the Awakening. In fact I'm quite fond of NWoD as a whole. You can disagree with someone's politics and still like them and other things that they do. It's called being a mature adult and not succumbing to tribalism.

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This guy imo has it right.

Though its not to say that some things are just cringy no matter what.

I was just at the WW Wiki too but sadly no listed Reference to where exactly they got the stuff on The Prophet.

Might be the Seers book I guess?

In any event, it seems the Exarchs are less subtle than the Technocracy.

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What do you mean by less subtle here exactly? In methods or do you mean about the great man of history thing?

Mages imo are all about great men or women of history. This applies to all of them.

A single person re-writing reality cause they want more power or cause they prefer things this way instead of another way? And they do it by force of their enlightened will or knowledge of the truths of reality? Something the rest of humanity doesn't have or has any choice or decision in this move.

Thats great man all the way

As the ramblings of a deranged person who saw something that man was not meant to know or understand and can be used as a plot hook for just about anything the ST wants, like it was in nWoD First Edition. Trying to fit the God-Machine into a game that isn't Demon in any other way is going to make people sad. The God-Machine as presented in nWoD 2E works great for a Demon-primary game and just kind of... doesn't work at all for literally any other type of splat or type of game. Thematically, the God-Machine is anathema to a lot of the themes of other WoD lines, because Demon is not a game about humanity, not in the sense other nWoD games are. It's a game about state power and about espionage and ideology and politics and the awful things you do in service to all of these. There's a reason that the Demon 'morality' stat is Cover, rather than an actual 'morality' stat.

And for a lot of splats it's even worse because they're not designed around the God-Machine and what it can do. It's a singular entity that is incredibly setting-consuming because it has relatively few internal conflicts, it acts on a very large scale, it has the mundane powers to make anyone's lives incredibly fucking miserable without spending much (if any) effort, and if you piss it off enough it will send Seraph Team Six to murder you and everyone you love. Most splats don't have the ability to literally cast their lives off and take up another one-even Mages have it rough there.

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I see. Thanks for your reply, MJ12 Commando.

And yes, they have problems mixing just like OWOD where all the game lines where supposed to be mixed but this leading to a lot of things such as themes and history not making any sense.

The new guys in charge have brought this problem back it seems.

Though, one thing with the Exarchs is that the Seers don't have to be involved at all. Whereas in oMage, from what I understand, there are places where the Technocracy's status-quo line has broken down or been ignored


(Also, Kill the Gods and Topple Their Thrones.)

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Yes, I do recall M20 talking about zones where technology simply does not work though it could be because of wards though.

Isn't this exactly how the Exarchs came to power. Planning to become an even greater tyrant then them, Laurent ?

 

[The Laurent]

Ah, so it could be that Demons/Angels and Machine is stronger then mages cause they are said to be so in their own book.

A valid interpretation.


Well its more complicated then that.

Some nephandhi do want total universal non-existence while others want hell universes so make the current universe hell or destroy the current and then make a new one.


OWOD has tons of cults and secret societies.

I do however wish that OMage has more Eldritch abominations like NMage does though.

Like this guy:

This sounds wonderful.



World of Darkness has always been left leaning. This is nothing new. They have even done punk for both. Just also inserted the idea for OWOD that just cause you oppose the man doesn't mean you're any better or anything you do matters or will make things better or you're right.

I personally prefer OWOD cause you can support the Wyrm or Nephandhi. NMage doesn't have that. I find that boring. But NMage has other interesting elements and lore like the Prince I mentioned above so whatever.

As for people not playing?


This guy imo has it right.



What do you mean by less subtle here exactly? In methods or do you mean about the great man of history thing?

Mages imo are all about great men or women of history. This applies to all of them.

A single person re-writing reality cause they want more power or cause they prefer things this way instead of another way? And they do it by force of their enlightened will or knowledge of the truths of reality? Something the rest of humanity doesn't have or has any choice or decision in this move.

Thats great man all the way

I see. Thanks for your reply, MJ12 Commando.

And yes, they have problems mixing just like OWOD where all the game lines where supposed to be mixed but this leading to a lot of things such as themes and history not making any sense.

The new guys in charge have brought this problem back it seems.

Yes, I do recall M20 talking about zones where technology simply does not work though it could be because of wards though.

Isn't this exactly how the Exarchs came to power. Planning to become an even greater tyrant then them, Laurent ?

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To be fair, if I topple the Thrones, they I can hardly sit on them myself, can I?

Nobody can sit on a toppled Throne... except maybe a cat, I admit.

 

[Space Penguin]

To be fair, if I topple the Thrones, they I can hardly sit on them myself, can I?

Nobody can sit on a toppled Throne... except maybe a cat, I admit.

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Ah my mistake. Usually when I hear that, its more topple the throne of the person sitting on said throne so we can put a new throne for me, the one who overthrew the previous person.

Thats basically what the Exarchs did.

 

[Skelm]

Still, a little on the nose perhaps? I hope no Conservative wants to play this game.

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I think it helps a lot to remember that the Exarchs are not their ministries. The Ministry of Mammon may work through capitalism, but the Chancellor should have a broader repertoire, probably covering anything that elevates material distraction over the search for enlightenment.

Also, the Seers often think they are more favoured then they actually are. The servants of the Prophet may think themselves Great Men who shape the flow of history, but I suspect their master would have a different view.

 

[TheLastOne]

I feel that too. Like I can see how Mage the Awakening can fit into the other lines. Like for example, vampires remembering things wrong could just be because those things or events used to exist but has been gotten rid of via mage reality rewrite.

Its the God machine that makes me go "wait a minute!".

Like does the God machine fear the exarchs? Does it serve them? Is it beyond the whole platonic reality?

How does it fit?

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How do the Judges fit, since they're a 'Below' that commands the 'Here' and ignores the 'Above' entirely, belonging to a completely different order? In Mage the Awakening, you can have a clear hierarchy of reality, but other lines aren't going to agree with that. Which is fine - that's why they're other lines. For all that the nWoD pretends to nicely coexist with itself, that's no more true then in the oWoD.

So this is a question that only matters if you're doing a crossover game. At which point, the answer should be whatever is best for your game.

 

[AshenFox]

How do the Judges fit, since they're a 'Below' that commands the 'Here' and ignores the 'Above' entirely, belonging to a completely different order? In Mage the Awakening, you can have a clear hierarchy of reality, but other lines aren't going to agree with that. Which is fine - that's why they're other lines. For all that the nWoD pretends to nicely coexist with itself, that's no more true then in the oWoD.

So this is a question that only matters if you're doing a crossover game. At which point, the answer should be whatever is best for your game.

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The Judges fit in Mage the same way the True Fae/Gentry/Others of Changeling the Lost do.
Which is to say that they are powerful ancient gods or mages, so powerful in fact that even the archmage alterations of reality cannot rid the world of them.

 

[JayTee]

Found a fun video about non-euclidian geometry in a gamespace. Thought it might be fun to share for general weird WoD shenanigans any any space mages looking for inspiration:

 

[Shane_357]

Well that's certainly a skullfuck.

 

[AshenFox]

*Snip*

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Wormholes. Got it.

 

[Skelm]

Found a fun video about non-euclidian geometry in a gamespace. Thought it might be fun to share for general weird WoD shenanigans any any space mages looking for inspiration:

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The hyperbolic disk at the start got me excited, but it was just about making portals in space.

If anyone is interested in getting a feel for a really non-euclidean geometry, I can highly recommend the game HyperRogue, which is set on an infinite hyperbolic plane. I've been thinking that hyperbolic geometry would make a good structure for an Emanation realm of space, or perhaps a representation of the infinitude of the Abyss (one path will take you to the Supernal, but make even a single misstep and every subsequent step can only take you further and further away).

 

[Leliel]

So that means the God machine is superior to mages and their platonic reality stuff, then?

Does the God Machine not care about all the reality rewrites that have happened?

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Given its uber-pragmatic and efficient personality, it's likely it doesn't care. The canonical (EDIT: as in the main Mage writer's headcanon, which is about as close as there is right now) answer is that mages can only detect an Aetheric flare (a signature unique to the Machine) when it's already pulled off an occult matrix, as Infrastructure just uses energies already there until full activation. So long as it itself is not disrupted, the Exarchs can dick around with reality all they want - in fact, that might be a benefit, as they sponsor ideologies favorable to forming useful cults.

EDIT: Also, the reason the Machine is there is to prove a point:

Science and Magic in the CofD are two different disciplines of the same field. If the Technocracy showed up tomorrow, people would hate them - for being willfully ignorant Banishers that commit genocide for an objectively incorrect ideology, not because of quashing other paradigms. The Machine is a force that understands this, and operates to exploit it.

For a good example of how, why, and what you do for merging the God-Machine mythos with something seemingly unrelated, check out the Aztec chapter in Dark Eras; it combines skinthieves (shapeshifting shamans intimately linked to Werewolf) with Demon to show exactly how the Machine manifested to the Mexica (which is to say - it doesn't need monotheism or advanced tech at all, it just needs people that maintain holy sites, it can pull off the science on its side).

The God-Machine seems out of place, until you realize it has always been humming in the background, maintaining your happy life. By objecting to what it views as acceptable sacrifices, you have become a risk. Yes, even by quietly warning away people you like. Those could have been useful.

 

[Space Penguin]

For all that the nWoD pretends to nicely coexist with itself, that's no more true then in the oWoD.

So this is a question that only matters if you're doing a crossover game. At which point, the answer should be whatever is best for your game.

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So basically NWOD fails at this idea that all the lines can coexist without issue just like OWOD. Huh, you'd think they would learn by now.

And while I do fully get your point that it only matters if one does a crossover game, I'm into World of Darkness for lore so no games for me aside from video games. Hence when I learned they are all in the same world, I wonder how the various control things behind the scenes of the various game lines interact with each other hence my question.

Given its uber-pragmatic and efficient personality, it's likely it doesn't care. The canonical (EDIT: as in the main Mage writer's headcanon, which is about as close as there is right now) answer is that mages can only detect an Aetheric flare (a signature unique to the Machine) when it's already pulled off an occult matrix, as Infrastructure just uses energies already there until full activation. So long as it itself is not disrupted, the Exarchs can dick around with reality all they want - in fact, that might be a benefit, as they sponsor ideologies favorable to forming useful cults.

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I see. So it doesn't care and it seems to be beyond the mages if they can't even detect it. What say you?

EDIT: Also, the reason the Machine is there is to prove a point:

Science and Magic in the CofD are two different disciplines of the same field. If the Technocracy showed up tomorrow, people would hate them - for being willfully ignorant Banishers that commit genocide for an objectively incorrect ideology, not because of quashing other paradigms. The Machine is a force that understands this, and operates to exploit it.

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So it exists to prove a point that Science and magic are separate things entirely?

Thats kinda generic. Most fiction has them as being separate things entirely. One of the reasons I like OWOD is cause it doesn't do that. They are one and the same. But whatever.

Anyway, I would say any faction from OWOD pushed into NWOD would come out being hated by everyone or some cause their thinking and ways of doing things are based on their own world and hence their rules and ways of doing things don't apply in the new world and would annoy the local powers. Thats normal I would say. Like for example, OWOD werewolves are represented in NWOD by the Pure who are bad guys, no? So not really a Technocracy thing. But lets not have a OMage argument here please.

 

[cmwatford]

How did you turn "Science and Magic in the CofD are two different disciplines of the same field." Into

So it exists to prove a point that Science and magic are separate things entirely?

Click to shrink...

 

[Space Penguin]

How did you turn "Science and Magic in the CofD are two different disciplines of the same field." Into

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I mean, they are the same field in the sense they bring truth but they are different otherwise is what I had in mind.

Like in comics where science are technology are separate things but both are paths to truth or knowledge.

 

[Kalzky]

Science as in the scientific method mostly still works in CofD, sans dealing with something like the abyss because well...it's the abyss. Science as in most physical laws and rules we currently know mostly don't apply to the various forms of magic.

 

[AshenFox]

So basically NWOD fails at this idea that all the lines can coexist without issue just like OWOD. Huh, you'd think they would learn by now.

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They did. Then the recession happened and we got Mummy which no one was asking for and which many were pretty sure they had 'updated' already with Promethean, Demon which while cool completely changed the context of everything about nWoD (both explaining many thing but also making everything that much more oWoD like make less sense in a lot of ways), and Beast. Why are you looking at me like that? No I refuse to touch that thing with a thousand foot barge pole.

My personal theory is that it was an attempt to slowly shift nWoD to be more oWoD like with big grand conspiracies and such in the hopes of converting oWoD players into liking nWoD too, which was an issue given that according to White Wolf when they made the jump over core books generally sold well but nothing else did.

I see. So it doesn't care and it seems to be beyond the mages if they can't even detect it. What say you?

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I don't know about "Beyond" because that would imply certain things.
Mages aren't "beyond" vampires for example. They're just more powerful on average and through progression.
But the vampire is going to likely live WAY longer then the mage unless the mage does some bad things.

In the case of the God Machine, I would say it's more subtle then mages are because it's operating on a much larger scale then they are.
Each mage is only an individual after all, who can only do so much. The God Machine on the other hand is practically everywhere and operating on the scale of the solar system at least and is utterly patient. It makes plans within plans within plans and is willing to wait thousands of years for all the gears to turn so that the tension of the spring they're pulling can be released, and just in case it made a backup elsewhere too.

I'll note that the most recent theory to come up for "Mage Player Theory Crafts" was that the God Machine is the potential for a Technocrat Tower of sorts.
That once it passes the tipping point in its progression and collection of power that it fall head long into the Supernal and unlock the potential for sleepers to become true Techno Mages as seen in the Mage the Awakening Chronicler's Guide.

If the Technocracy showed up tomorrow, people would hate them

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Stupid people might, but while some initial bumps in the road and rough patches might happen, the Technocracy would adapt VERY quickly given the total lack of any other individuals here who are, ya know, sleeping omnipotent gods larping as Greg the Cashier. Without any kind of Consensus other then their own, the Technocracy can start giving mankind technologies we've only dreamed of, AND because there is no distorting of the Consensus by letting Greg the Cashier know supernaturals exist, no "god in the gaps" field as it were, supernaturals are no longer a threat beyond the actual damage they might cause. Which humans already cause damage, this is an accepted thing, so you just police supernaturals like you do humans. Ironically if you can mass roll out something that would be considered an "internal supernatural merit" to the public, you even free up the local mages as at that point no living sleepers cause Paradox of any kind.

 

[Leliel]

Stupid people might, but while some initial bumps in the road and rough patches might happen, the Technocracy would adapt VERY quickly given the total lack of any other individuals here who are, ya know, sleeping omnipotent gods larping as Greg the Cashier.

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Great, now let's see them try to justify the slaughter they did if they kept to the Pogrom for a bit. Otherwise all that you posted? Is irrelevant. They killed people in the name of empire and ideology and were supported by the entire administration apparatus, welcome to Bad Reputation Central, Population the Pure, Seers, Deceived, and VII.

The CofD's main moral difference between it and the CWoD is that there are actions that mark you as one of the bad guys regardless of what creed you champion. Callous indifference, genocide, and abuse of innocents for no reason are the big ones (Beast as a game forgot that, and pretty much the entire library apart from the core has been trying to atone for that mistake - which is all I will say, though I note that Onyx Path isn't especially interested in supporting it with books for a reason). The Technocrats, assuming they act in the way that makes them an antagonist, are going to be viewed as Seers with a chrome coating - and it's going to be hard to make them stop acting that way. I agree with the rest, but that's an end goal, the Union has some dogma to overcome first and they're going to piss off a lot of people in the process for legitimate reasons.

EDIT: And that is my two cents. Not making this a debate, so I'll leave it there.

 

[Leliel]

I mean, they are the same field in the sense they bring truth but they are different otherwise is what I had in mind.

Like in comics where science are technology are separate things but both are paths to truth or knowledge.

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Ah. Well, that's...actually, the precise opposite of what I said. It's likely that any individual person is only an expert in one field, but "occult physics" literally means "it's all the same science, just different applications and methods." See Mummy; it's pretty much canon that manipulating Sekhem is a science, not an art - it just happens that art is the best tool for it. The CofD is a very Hermetic world, all mysticism is a science of some kind, albeit often a soft one. It's just normally beyond human capacity to exploit the fact they are the same thing; the God-Machine has no such limits.

EDIT: In a M:tG metaphor I came up with on the official boards; the CofD is a world awash in Black, White and Blue Mana. Victory belongs to the cunning, ambitious, and organized. Study of the supernatural is just an extension of asking what it is you learn, what you will sacrifice to learn, and what you are learning it for.

 

[Nikkolas]

So apparently that one dude was fired, the guy who caused the Chechnya incident.

This is good news to a lot of people elsewhere since he apparently fucked a lot of shit up besides that.

 

[notanautomaton]

So apparently that one dude was fired, the guy who caused the Chechnya incident.

This is good news to a lot of people elsewhere since he apparently fucked a lot of shit up besides that.

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Swedracula was fired, yes.

 

[Leliel]

So apparently that one dude was fired, the guy who caused the Chechnya incident.

This is good news to a lot of people elsewhere since he apparently fucked a lot of shit up besides that.

Click to shrink...

Link, please? It's not that I don't believe you, I just have to see this for myself.

 

[Nikkolas]

Link, please? It's not that I don't believe you, I just have to see this for myself.

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Black Dog Blues

This is his blog post on the matter which has spawned much derisive laughter at how self-pitying and aggrandizing it is.

 

[Legend of Ruina]

I must say, the ending was amazing:

"Hey guys, please say you like me on the forums so I might get hired again. I have fans, right? They'll help White Wolf see what a mistake they made."
Literally nobody has liked this post.

 

[Space Penguin]

They did. Then the recession happened and we got Mummy which no one was asking for and which many were pretty sure they had 'updated' already with Promethean, Demon which while cool completely changed the context of everything about nWoD (both explaining many thing but also making everything that much more oWoD like make less sense in a lot of ways), and Beast. Why are you looking at me like that? No I refuse to touch that thing with a thousand foot barge pole.

My personal theory is that it was an attempt to slowly shift nWoD to be more oWoD like with big grand conspiracies and such in the hopes of converting oWoD players into liking nWoD too, which was an issue given that according to White Wolf when they made the jump over core books generally sold well but nothing else did.

Click to shrink...

So they were doing things correctly but changed course and now we have the contradictions back. Oh well.

Still a good exercise for lore people to try and make them fit. So its all okay imo.

I don't know about "Beyond" because that would imply certain things.
Mages aren't "beyond" vampires for example. They're just more powerful on average and through progression.
But the vampire is going to likely live WAY longer then the mage unless the mage does some bad things.

In the case of the God Machine, I would say it's more subtle then mages are because it's operating on a much larger scale then they are.
Each mage is only an individual after all, who can only do so much. The God Machine on the other hand is practically everywhere and operating on the scale of the solar system at least and is utterly patient. It makes plans within plans within plans and is willing to wait thousands of years for all the gears to turn so that the tension of the spring they're pulling can be released, and just in case it made a backup elsewhere too.

Click to shrink...

Well how about those arcmages who live in the supernal and do the major reality warping. Do they know about the god machine?

Also, why are NWOD mages not capable of being immortal or unaging. Their spheres should let them be able to do so.

edit: never mind. Its cause authors wrote it that way. I remembered reading something in this thread about my very question(the immortal or unaging question)

I'll note that the most recent theory to come up for "Mage Player Theory Crafts" was that the God Machine is the potential for a Technocrat Tower of sorts.
That once it passes the tipping point in its progression and collection of power that it fall head long into the Supernal and unlock the potential for sleepers to become true Techno Mages as seen in the Mage the Awakening Chronicler's Guide.

Click to shrink...

Interesting.

Great, now let's see them try to justify the slaughter they did if they kept to the Pogrom for a bit. Otherwise all that you posted? Is irrelevant. They killed people in the name of empire and ideology and were supported by the entire administration apparatus, welcome to Bad Reputation Central, Population the Pure, Seers, Deceived, and VII.

The CofD's main moral difference between it and the CWoD is that there are actions that mark you as one of the bad guys regardless of what creed you champion. Callous indifference, genocide, and abuse of innocents for no reason are the big ones (Beast as a game forgot that, and pretty much the entire library apart from the core has been trying to atone for that mistake - which is all I will say, though I note that Onyx Path isn't especially interested in supporting it with books for a reason). The Technocrats, assuming they act in the way that makes them an antagonist, are going to be viewed as Seers with a chrome coating - and it's going to be hard to make them stop acting that way. I agree with the rest, but that's an end goal, the Union has some dogma to overcome first and they're going to piss off a lot of people in the process for legitimate reasons.

EDIT: And that is my two cents. Not making this a debate, so I'll leave it there.

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All the things you mentioned can apply to protagonist factions in OWOD too. Hence why I said earlier that in NWOD, nearly everyone from OWOD could be seen as bad guys.

Ah. Well, that's...actually, the precise opposite of what I said. It's likely that any individual person is only an expert in one field, but "occult physics" literally means "it's all the same science, just different applications and methods." See Mummy; it's pretty much canon that manipulating Sekhem is a science, not an art - it just happens that art is the best tool for it. The CofD is a very Hermetic world, all mysticism is a science of some kind, albeit often a soft one. It's just normally beyond human capacity to exploit the fact they are the same thing; the God-Machine has no such limits.

EDIT: In a M:tG metaphor I came up with on the official boards; the CofD is a world awash in Black, White and Blue Mana. Victory belongs to the cunning, ambitious, and organized. Study of the supernatural is just an extension of asking what it is you learn, what you will sacrifice to learn, and what you are learning it for.

Click to shrink...

First, I just noticed I made a mistake in my sentence that you quoted. I meant to say this:

I mean, they are the same field in the sense they bring truth but they are different otherwise is what I had in mind.

Like in comics where magic and technology are separate things but both are paths to truth or knowledge.

Click to shrink...

Sorry about that. Stupid phone tapping.

Anyway, So its more everything is science just that you do it in different ways. Would that be accurate?

Then where do NWOD mages fall in this? Seeing as they can create sub souls and then ascend to the supernal realm and all that.

edit: phone tapping is evil. deleted a duplicate post I created. Sorry mods.

 

[SunnySprings]

IIRC, nWoD/CofD (damn naming conventions!) Mages can extend their lives for quite a while and it's considered fine to do so if you need time to wrap your affairs up or train one last apprentice. Going beyond that is considered a big sign of being low on Wisdom by most mages if you're so pathologically afraid of death or so dependent on solving Mysteries that you'd rather watch friends, family, and colleagues die than ever experience it yourself.

EDIT: Well, for the Pentacle, anyway. The Seers probably ban it on the grounds that it would make the in-fighting in the organization too disruptive. At least if the guy above you on the Pyramid ages, you can wait him out for your turn. If he's immortal, well, no choice but to try and murder him.