The problem is that unless at least one member of the staff is literally sitting on top of each character to actively counter any escape attempt (which also means they have to be able to counter someone who has their own unique bag of infinite tricks) then even baby mages will be escaping from the place like nobody's business. Mages are insanely hard to keep locked up because they each have a suite of powers that is unique and impossible to remove without making them incapable of taking action (playing a bunch of PCs who are locked into vegetative comas is less than fun).

The idea really fits in a whole lot better as nWoD's Changeling, or Promethean, or a Psychic game. oWoD seems more in line with a vampire game. You could always just run it with mortal characters.
 
It's not really true though. You could have an Altantian ruin with powerful lasting spells where a sect of mages is experimenting with insanity and inducing it with mind magic. Between the drugs, existing protections, and the mind magic - you could certainly pull something like a Mage Shutter Island or a Mage Inception off. Particularly true if the ST keeps the mages progression fairly static for the length of the arc and does most of the awards on the culmination of the jailbreak arc (which could be weeks, months, or even a year). A lot of people do their power fantasies with WoD. Reading the actual stories in the mage books, it's *super* reasonable. It's more the community that cranks everything to Goku.

Just because the Mage Universe has some themes does not mean an ST cannot take the time and effort to make an excellent story. I constantly run into the talking heads telling me how to run a setting in my own RPing. If you want to have some Vampires slaughtering people openly and lording it up, you could totally do that in the Amazon Rainforest and it could be really cool. A cunning ST can make bend a setting and make it really cool. Just jumping on them and shutting them down with wrong/bad think, the Devs want or designed it this way, STs are creators and can do anything they want. It might be harder to find players, but if they can make it and sell it, the sky is the limit.
 
rule question! In Sorcery Revised, Hellfire costs one Willpower to use, does that mean per spell or per scene? Does it cost 1 WP each time I toss fire from my arsehole, or is the cost up front for the duration of the scene?
 
It's not really true though. You could have an Altantian ruin with powerful lasting spells where a sect of mages is experimenting with insanity and inducing it with mind magic. Between the drugs, existing protections, and the mind magic - you could certainly pull something like a Mage Shutter Island or a Mage Inception off. Particularly true if the ST keeps the mages progression fairly static for the length of the arc and does most of the awards on the culmination of the jailbreak arc (which could be weeks, months, or even a year). A lot of people do their power fantasies with WoD. Reading the actual stories in the mage books, it's *super* reasonable. It's more the community that cranks everything to Goku.

Ascension, not Awakening. And in Ascension the Progenitor Revised book has a not exceptional mage bounce bullets off his subdermal armor and does a thirty meter anime jump.

The Technocracy Revised book has a random agent dodge gunfire like they were in the Matrix.

The Ascension books have a scientist-not some Iteration X combat cyborg-react to bullets after they're fired.

Ascension is absolutely a power fantasy game because the entire premise of the game mandates that mages simply be Great Men.

And the rules kind of reflect it, when the ST guide to the lowest powered edition basically had a section that went "wait my players want to crash the moon into the Earth" and their answer was "this will piss some pretty powerful people off and is a bad idea."

And in the same edition you had a book give you a merit that could straight up make you completely immune to harm outside of a ludicrously unique circumstance.
 
I'm not even talking about some of the bullshittery you can get up to with spheres, i'm talking basic stuff like minimal levels of matter letting you ignore locks, using forces to walk up and over walls, correspondence to make portals, mind to manipulate guards. Sure there's countermeasures you can put forward for anything i can use as an example, but those aren't cheap and you have to cover every possible angle because every single baby mage you throw in this asylum is going to develop their own array of spheres and figure out how to mix and match the array they have access to. The most effective way is to lock prisoners down with spells that lobotomize them, or medicate them into a coma, both of which make it hard to actually play a character in game.

Mages are crazy versatile even with minimal investment in spheres/arcana
 
Been thinking about Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game, one of my favorite White Wolf products ever and a core part of my World of Darkness head-canon.

That game was awesome.

Also, I've been re-reading my copy of GURPS Vampire: The Masquerade and the GURPS Vampire Companion and I admit, I love the idea of running 1E Vampire with GURPS 3E, although I don't have much experience with GURPS.
 
rule question! In Sorcery Revised, Hellfire costs one Willpower to use, does that mean per spell or per scene? Does it cost 1 WP each time I toss fire from my arsehole, or is the cost up front for the duration of the scene?

Most likely the cost is per-fireball.

Been thinking about Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game, one of my favorite White Wolf products ever and a core part of my World of Darkness head-canon.

That game was awesome.

This is factually and scientifically true. Other than the, I think it was rolling attack move being hell-king busted, it was also the most well-balanced White Wolf game until probably Exalted 1st edition.
 
Flicking through my copy of Changeling: the Lost 2e and so far I broadly like it. Some thoughts:

Because Kiths are intended to stretch over multiple Seemings, every Kith has to be a broad enough archetype to be filtered through a multiple, higher level archetype that is the Seeming, which is a noted departure from the coupling of 1e. So the Gristlegrinder Kith can now be, depending on which Seeming they intersect, Polyphemus, the Big Bad Wolf, or the eerily beautiful model who literally eats her competition alive.

Kiths in 2e feature a lot of returns from 1e. Artist (self-explanatory), Bright Ones (Hyperpassionate Attention-grabbers), Chatelaine (faerie servant), Gristlegrinder ("Will Eat You"), Helldivers (spies), Hunterhearts (predators), Leechfingers (vampires/parasites), Mirrorskins (shapeshifters), Nightsingers (bards, more or less), Notary (basically lawyers), Playmates (people-pleasing literal people-made-toys), Snowskins (empathy-dead stonewalls). I think these are decently broad in terms of the concepts allowed, though some are much more than others - I can easily fathom a Playmate of any Seeming, but not so much a Mirrorskin Fairest.

Interestingly, it's less than half the number of Kiths in CtL 1e's core. I'm not opposed to that inherently, given that the homebrewing rules are robust and there's plenty of conceptual space to stretch into.

My only problem is the corebook - someone, please point out if I'm wrong - doesn't actually clarify whether any Kith can be of any Seeming. After every Kith is listed two examples of what they might look like as a certain Seeming - but neither there nor in the Chapter 7 homebrewing rules for Kiths does it tell me if any Kith can be any Seeming. Does anyone know if this is the case, or if those listed examples are the only Seemings you can pair with the given Kith?
 
This is factually and scientifically true. Other than the, I think it was rolling attack move being hell-king busted, it was also the most well-balanced White Wolf game until probably Exalted 1st edition.

I mean on one hand yes this is probably true, on the other hand that's a really low bar.

Trinity and Adventure! both had relatively solid splat balance and few overtly broken powers, although Trinity had some really weird chargen calculations which you'd want to exploit because they'd get you a ludicrously high starting Psi score.
 
How about the kids don't even try to escape the asylum, because there's nothing really stopping them from doing that, but instead they just stay there to try and help out the other Mages as therapists, trying to give them the help that none of the characters got but all of them desperately needed on account of massive systemic failure?
 
So I really liked Changeling: The Lost first time around, and I haven't really been paying attention to the development of 2e. Been thinking about picking up a PDF to look through but not gonna lie considering some of the gross shit that's been pervailing in the traditional World of Darkness end over in the house formerly known as White Wolf, I'm a tad concerned about getting burned with OPP and Chronicles, so can anyone confirm there's nothing like that... well. Beyond the pitch of the game being a magical PTSD simulator.

I'm basically asking if there's stuff like a Changeling Court secretely using killing all the gays as a smokescreen for their operations or dumb shit like that. :V
 
How about the kids don't even try to escape the asylum, because there's nothing really stopping them from doing that, but instead they just stay there to try and help out the other Mages as therapists, trying to give them the help that none of the characters got but all of them desperately needed on account of massive systemic failure?
You're still trying to impose actions on the player characters; you're either going to get pushback if you don't mention it up front, or something of a shortage of players willing to play "Sim Therapist 2000" in a Mage game if you do. Most people playing Mage are in it for the cool magic and, yes, the conspiracy bullshit, I think you'll find.


I guess you could go full Psychonauts...?
 
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So I really liked Changeling: The Lost first time around, and I haven't really been paying attention to the development of 2e. Been thinking about picking up a PDF to look through but not gonna lie considering some of the gross shit that's been pervailing in the traditional World of Darkness end over in the house formerly known as White Wolf, I'm a tad concerned about getting burned with OPP and Chronicles, so can anyone confirm there's nothing like that... well. Beyond the pitch of the game being a magical PTSD simulator.

I'm basically asking if there's stuff like a Changeling Court secretely using killing all the gays as a smokescreen for their operations or dumb shit like that. :V
Nope. Not from what I read so far at least. The kooky bad stuff from old previews like Glamour Harvesting being inherently harmful (it just saps some WP normally) or changelings selling each other to Huntsmen (gone entirely) are, well, gone entirely
 
Nope. Not from what I read so far at least. The kooky bad stuff from old previews like Glamour Harvesting being inherently harmful (it just saps some WP normally) or changelings selling each other to Huntsmen (gone entirely) are, well, gone entirely
Are the Hunstmen themselves still around, and are they still infinitely-resurrecting Terminators that always know your location?
 
Are the Hunstmen themselves still around, and are they still infinitely-resurrecting Terminators that always know your location?
Okay, computer now, sorry for the delay. This isn't the whole thing, but it's most of the meat of it.
pg. 262-263 said:
When the True Fae retreat from the corners of Arcadia to hold court and play their games, the land returns to what it once was. Sometimes escaping changelings stumble across these empty realms before they cross into the Hedge, these undeveloped lands devoid of living civilization, a theatre stage with scattered props and sets but no lights or actors. Most often, changelings view them as cold woods, chilled enough to see their breath illumined in moon- and starlight, a midnight land rife with barrow mounds and watchful eyes. These eyes are both hunter and hunted, air and darkness assuming thought and form by will or whim. They are the Huntsmen: They were in Arcadia before the Gentry, and they will be there after the Gentry leave.
But in this time and place, the Gentry rule the lands beyond the Hedge, and even those verderers of the woods must acknowledge their authority. When the Lost stubbornly refuse to be found, the True Fae venture into the deepest thickets to call upon the Huntsmen, who are never far from their masters.

Never Farfrom the Queen
Everything has rules. Rules and reliability. The crossbow and its quiver of 20 darling daughters are reliable. They do what you expect of them. You're reliable. Your snares will catch, your sword will draw blood. The woods are treacherous. Without rules and order, the woods will consume you. The woods define you, and they are all you need. The Gentry make their own rules, however. They come into the woods, magic billowing before them, fog parting in the forest. When they come upon you, they make a swift motion with the surety of sovereignty, removing your heart and sundering grace. Into that cavity pours the desire of the True Fae, a Title representing their desire for the Lost who has forsaken them, and you become their Huntsman. Whatever desires you had before are muted — you now share the same desire for a changeling as the Keeper, and you wear the livery of yourqueen. Your quarry doesn't believe in rules. Your quarry isn't reliable, except in one key respect:
Changelings run. They always run. And so, the Huntsman follows.

The Herald
Often, the herald comes as the first sign of the hunt. The bird of prey alights on a changeling's windowsill, looks her in the eye, and then she hears the voice. Come home, he says, and she knows the Huntsman has her scent and draws nigh. Follow me and spare yourself the chase. Your lover pines for you, your master fades without your song, there are contracts to sign and slaves to eat; the kingdom dies without your smile. Sometimes the Huntsman's herald is their pet briarhound or hookshrike, in which case their love for their companion is the only thing that persists past the loss of their heart. Only their fury can match it, so woe to the changeling who injures the herald.

By the time the herald comes, the Huntsman has been observing their prey for weeks, perhaps months. Goblin contacts willing to inform on the changeling have been paid for their silence, either with Glamour or cold iron. The verderers have walked beside her on the street, watched her sup Glamour from emotions, eaten the same spicy pork from the same local Burmese place that she has. The herald is an announcement of the hunt, but it also flushes the prey out from her complacent routine. It reminds her that she is not safe, and she never will be, and only the rarest and strangest changelings resist the panic that follows so stark a reminder. One who does, and who clings stubbornly to defenses and a routine, finds the attempts to flush her out never cease. The heart that beats inside the Huntsman is that of her — their — Keeper, and they know how to hurt her in manners most intimate.

The Wild Hunt
A Huntsman never ceases. They can die, after a fashion — they're canny and tough, but they're creatures of flesh and Wyrd like anything else touched by Faerie. When you prick them, they bleed rather a lot. They meet attempts to wrong them without revenge, however, for their heart's desire is to see a changeling in fetters, dragged through the Hedge and brought back to Arcadia's Plutonian shore. Even slaying the Huntsman will not end her suffering, for only a chill cavity rests between their ribs, and so long as their heart beats in their stolen Bastion, they reform somewhere in the Hedge within a month's time to start again. And even when the heart itself is destroyed and the Huntsman is no more, the animating Title's fire flits back to the Keeper whence it came, and can be sewn into a new Huntsman to start the cycle anew.

In the colloquial among the Lost, the phrase "Wild Hunt" represents this dread reality: The hunt against them never ends, a furious host will chase them to the ends of the Earth, and a Huntsman may be coming for them at any time. Huntsmen will pay off privateers, command goblins, and even treat with mortal forces to harass their prey.
 
Ascension, not Awakening. And in Ascension the Progenitor Revised book has a not exceptional mage bounce bullets off his subdermal armor and does a thirty meter anime jump.

The Technocracy Revised book has a random agent dodge gunfire like they were in the Matrix.

The Ascension books have a scientist-not some Iteration X combat cyborg-react to bullets after they're fired.

Ascension is absolutely a power fantasy game because the entire premise of the game mandates that mages simply be Great Men.

And the rules kind of reflect it, when the ST guide to the lowest powered edition basically had a section that went "wait my players want to crash the moon into the Earth" and their answer was "this will piss some pretty powerful people off and is a bad idea."

And in the same edition you had a book give you a merit that could straight up make you completely immune to harm outside of a ludicrously unique circumstance.

To be fair I always saw Immunity, especially high levels of it, as an NPC builder trait. As for building legendary monsters and ancient demons and sealed evils in a can.

I mean I can't imagine an ST actually letting anyone buy it at 16.
 
To be fair I always saw Immunity, especially high levels of it, as an NPC builder trait. As for building legendary monsters and ancient demons and sealed evils in a can.

I mean I can't imagine an ST actually letting anyone buy it at 16.
Anyone who matters should be able to get through it in a mage game, it never felt really that worth it , but I might be misremembering it.
 
Anyone who matters should be able to get through it in a mage game, it never felt really that worth it , but I might be misremembering it.

Complete immunity to all harm. Yeah, people can attack your soul, but that's significantly harder. It's why bullets are a great weapon, and the Gilgul is an involved execution method. Even major Spirit attacks usually end up being 'harm you' rather then 'evaporate your soul.'
 
I ran (and played a tabletop rpg [on discord] for the first time ever) a Chronicles of Darkness campaign!

I'm kinda ecstatic, tbh.
 
So, bit of a random question brought about by me finally getting and reading through V20.

What elements of New and Old do people like mixing?

Does anyone mix setting elements like taking out Dreaming style Changelings for Lost? Or throw the Sabbat and Camarilla into Requiem? Or have the Technocracy wondering what the fuck the God-Machine is and which asshole made and/or lost control of it?

Or do people prefer to stick to porting mechanics?
 
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