The Sons of Ether are, in some ways the inheritors of the Craftmasons. Anyone can perform science and engineering, you don't need a doctorate and millions of dollars to make a spaceship, you could make one in your garage out of a car you were working on and some spare parts from the local junkyard.
Along with this the Sons of Ether reject Occam's Razor and Scientific Reductionism in general. They don't believe that the answer with the fewest unproven assertions is necessarily where you should start your study. They don't always try and make a new theory when they find something that doesn't fit with the theory. Sometimes they just add new components to their preexisting theory.
They lack scientific doubt or skepticism, believing in keeping an open mind and suspending disbelief while studying a phenomenon. They tend to just assume phenomenon such as ghosts or acupuncture is true and work from their, rather than try and fit them into their current worldview. They take this so far as to nurture their ability to doublethink and compartmentalize by being able to look at the world through multiple, possibly contradictory, lenses.
They think science is about making the impossible possible and understanding the unknown through it's own logic. They want all the cool parts of science without having to do the boring paperwork. And they want the cool parts of the past, without the bad parts. When they mention Ether of Quantum Mechanics they don't mean the actual theories, but the public understanding of those ideas. There's a paradoxical relationship between the Etherite view of the past and future, and the way they have been or will become.

They want to be this:


But are seen as this:


Sons of Ether come from Mary Shelly, Jules Vern, Technological Utopianism, Retrofuturism, and Pulp Novels. Lego Mindstorms and Maker culture should be modern incarnations of their idea that anyone should be able to make things.

This doesn't really translate into Chronicles of Darkness, being fundamentally different genres with fundamentally different themes and aesthetics. The closest you can really do is that feeling of knowing something that the world denies and suppresses. Being branded a madman and losing all you have worked to achieve in your pursuit of forbidden knowledge. But that's straying from the technological optimism of oMage Etherites.

Neither Shelly nor Verne have anything to do with the themes you suggested. Victor Frankenstein is a learned Doctor utilizing at the time cutting edge theories of electricity and neurological stimulation. Galvani was zapping frog corpses twenty years before Shelley was born.

All Vern's inventors were likewise sober learned individuals who studied their fields deeply and who's inventions (generally) had a solid basis in known physics for the era.

Really what you're talking about is more a Wells sort of thing. With stories like Food of the Gods and the Invisible Man. Where fearless visionaries and relative laymen invent something miraculous with a couple months of feverish work. :)
 
Neither Shelly nor Verne have anything to do with the themes you suggested. Victor Frankenstein is a learned Doctor utilizing at the time cutting edge theories of electricity and neurological stimulation. Galvani was zapping frog corpses twenty years before Shelley was born.

All Vern's inventors were likewise sober learned individuals who studied their fields deeply and who's inventions (generally) had a solid basis in known physics for the era.

Really what you're talking about is more a Wells sort of thing. With stories like Food of the Gods and the Invisible Man. Where fearless visionaries and relative laymen invent something miraculous with a couple months of feverish work. :)
It's honestly been forever since I've read Jules Verne, so I'll take your word for it. I did mention that the Sons of Ether don't really go off of the actual things they claim to base themselves off of, rather the public's bastardized understanding of them. There is no reason why this cannot apply to the media they claim as inspiration. I have actually read Frankenstein, but the public's understanding of Frankenstein is completely different than the actual novel. Also, I think that Conventions lose something when they split off from the rest of the Technocracy. Both the Sons of Ether and the Virtual Adepts changed without the rest of the Technocracy and its structure to balance them. I think the Etherites lost the sober judgement of Shelly and Vern when they left the Order of Reason. The Virtual Adepts lost the corporate professionalism and establishment credentials of IBM and Bell Labs.

edit: the Etherites are as much cultural scavengers as the Virtual Adepts, if not more so. Etherites freely take elements from other works and theories and repurpose them, out of context, for use in their own endeavors.
 
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It's honestly been forever since I've read Jules Verne, so I'll take your word for it. I did mention that the Sons of Ether don't really go off of the actual things they claim to base themselves off of, rather the public's bastardized understanding of them. There is no reason why this cannot apply to the media they claim as inspiration. I have actually read Frankenstein, but the public's understanding of Frankenstein is completely different than the actual novel. Also, I think that Conventions lose something when they split off from the rest of the Technocracy. Both the Sons of Ether and the Virtual Adepts changed without the rest of the Technocracy and it's structure to balance them. I think the Etherites lost the sober judgement of Shelly and Vern when they left the Order of Reason. The Virtual Adepts lost the corporate professionalism and establishment credentials of IBM and Bell Labs.
Sounds reasonable to me.
 
Neither Shelly nor Verne have anything to do with the themes you suggested. Victor Frankenstein is a learned Doctor utilizing at the time cutting edge theories of electricity and neurological stimulation. Galvani was zapping frog corpses twenty years before Shelley was born.

All Vern's inventors were likewise sober learned individuals who studied their fields deeply and who's inventions (generally) had a solid basis in known physics for the era.

Really what you're talking about is more a Wells sort of thing. With stories like Food of the Gods and the Invisible Man. Where fearless visionaries and relative laymen invent something miraculous with a couple months of feverish work. :)
Well, its the stuff of the era where people were eating strange chemicals, putting radium up their butt, zapping with electricity because it was the cool new thing, and that science is full of wonder and discovery where theres something new behind every corner. People were feeling inspired and nothing could go wrong.
In terms of philosophy, its basically bravely carrying the light of truth into the unknown.

While the flip side is the cautionary tales that maybe all this is a little too good to be true? Maybe men should not play God?
 
The Sons of Ether are, in some ways the inheritors of the Craftmasons. Anyone can perform science and engineering, you don't need a doctorate and millions of dollars to make a spaceship, you could make one in your garage out of a car you were working on and some spare parts from the local junkyard.
Along with this the Sons of Ether reject Occam's Razor and Scientific Reductionism in general. They don't believe that the answer with the fewest unproven assertions is necessarily where you should start your study. They don't always try and make a new theory when they find something that doesn't fit with the theory. Sometimes they just add new components to their preexisting theory.
They lack scientific doubt or skepticism, believing in keeping an open mind and suspending disbelief while studying a phenomenon. They tend to just assume phenomenon such as ghosts or acupuncture is true and work from their, rather than try and fit them into their current worldview. They take this so far as to nurture their ability to doublethink and compartmentalize by being able to look at the world through multiple, possibly contradictory, lenses.
They think science is about making the impossible possible and understanding the unknown through it's own logic. They want all the cool parts of science without having to do the boring paperwork. And they want the cool parts of the past, without the bad parts. When they mention Ether of Quantum Mechanics they don't mean the actual theories, but the public understanding of those ideas. There's a paradoxical relationship between the Etherite view of the past and future, and the way they have been or will become.
Now that you put it this way, you're making me think of how the Bicameral Order and their discoveries from Watts' Blindsight/Echopraxia/Omniscience trilogy look to the mundanes. Not a perfect match, but some of the ways of just one day coming with a revelation of a new technology, just going and applying it, astounding the cockroaches with the lack of preceding scientific testing and all.
 
Honestly I think the Etherites work really well if you have them represent a particular sort of scientific idealism--not in the colloquial sense but the Marxist one. The Etherite worldview is defined by valuing great-mannishness and the idea of "genius"--extraordinarily intelligent people--over systemic scientific inquiry. When an Etherite disagrees with established science, it must be the scientific establishment that is wrong, not him, because the establishment was created largely by unexceptional people, but he is a genius. An extraordinary scientist should not let himself be dragged down by the mediocrity of the masses--it's extraordinary people and their will and their drive that define the world, and the rest of the world will eventually follow along. Because of this, Etherite science makes no claim to universality--only great men will ever be able to understand them--and has no regard for the Technocratic paradigmatic idea that science requires both specialized education and resources--a great man without either should be able to outperform a mediocre man with both--and consensus. This makes them believe in not only particular bits of pseudoscience (and they should really believe less fantastical steampunk gearshit and more actual, real-life pseudoscience like perpetual motion machines and HBD) but the kind of mentality that leads people to become pseudoscientists in the first place.

In contrast, the Technocracy is a profoundly materialistic entity--with the exception of some parts of the Syndicate that most of the rest of the Technocracy doesn't really like, it doesn't really believe in special individual human excellence. Iterators think you're meat computers, Progenitors think you're meat computers, NWO believes you're fundamentally a product of society and circumstances, the Syndicate sees you as an incentive-grabbing robot, and Void Engineers know that you're insignificant next to the vastness of the cosmos. As a result, the Technocratic paradigm is very fundamentally skeptical to appeals to personal excellence against systemic knowledge--your success is ultimately dependent on something other than yourself, and so when you disagree with the system, unless you have a lot of objective evidence beyond your supposed genius, you're probably the one that's in the wrong.

Incidentally, this also means that a lot of Etherites should be Nazis--this sort of idealistic mentality is deeply, deeply associated with fascism, and drove a lot of Nazi psuedoscience then and a lot of neo-Nazi pseudoscience now. The venn diagram between pseudoscientists, conspiracists, and the far-right is frequently more of a circle than a diagram, and the Etherites should reflect that--like I said, HBD should be a fairly common Etherite paradigm.
 
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I have read some great fansplats:

Princess: The Hopeful
Is amazing both lore and mechanic wise. For a time I thought that Princess was an actual splat by White Wolf. Princess is my favourite of the fan splats with its tone and characters. The theme, mood, lore and mechanics all come together in this beautiful concise work.

Leviathan: The Tempest(1st)/Cult Chronicles(2ed)
Man-Kajiu-Cthulu is you!
I enjoy the lore for this fan splat but the mechanics is complete crud for the 1st edition. The Leviathan's antagonists are pretty weak though. Ancient secret society of white hats or just regular old leviathans are your choices and they are not really interesting. Apparently, the 2nd edition is fixing these issues with the addition of God Machine Chronicles mechanics. Despite its faults, I still believe that both versions are better version of Beasts than actual Beast: The Primordial.

Dragon: The Embers/
Dragon Rekindling: The Oroboroi Chronicles
You're a Dragon boyah!
Is increasing lore wise it doesn't have very interesting antagonists. Like Leviathan, Dragon doesn't have really have great mechanics and the 2nd edition is made to rectify that.

Hunchback: The Lurching
You are the Ygor!
I hate this one so much. This splat's theme, mood and lore are sound ideas but put together in one splat it falls apart. The whole aspect of how the Hunchbacks work mechanically turns me off. One of the ways that a Hunchback can gain back a power stat is being rejected by someone. The lore of Hunchback is really dark and doesn't seem to have any upsides (excluding magic powers); it just doesn't feel very inviting for me to play.

Outsider: The Calling
You are a priest for Cthulu!
This one is okay... sub-par mechanics wise but I can see where the project is going and approve.

Empyrean: The Redemption
You are a demigod...sort of!
This one is pretty nice also! It can even neatly crossover with Leviathan (as in both species hate each other). There is not much going for it right now as the splat is being revised I believe. The first edition had the same issues as Leviathan's: weak antagonists, so I hope this issue will be corrected in the next version.

Giant: The Perfidous
You are a Caine blooded giant!
I only ever saw the lore for this one. It seemed like a lot of fun.

Siren: The Drowning
Mermaid is You!
I don't really have anything to say about this one. It has a concise universe and consistent theme/mood but I am not really interested in playing this splat.

Princess and Leviathan are my favourites right now.
 
Leviathan: The Tempest(1st)/Cult Chronicles(2ed)
Man-Kajiu-Cthulu is you!
I enjoy the lore for this fan splat but the mechanics is complete crud for the 1st edition. The Leviathan's antagonists are pretty weak though. Ancient secret society of white hats or just regular old leviathans are your choices and they are not really interesting. Apparently, the 2nd edition is fixing these issues with the addition of God Machine Chronicles mechanics. Despite its faults, I still believe that both versions are better version of Beasts than actual Beast: The Primordial.
I never read the actual sourcebook, but I remember hearing that it deliberately inverts Promethean Disquiet in a very interesting way: mortals exposed to you are initially unsettled, but they quickly adjust and either ignore you or try to befriend you in a reasonably normal fashion. The problem is that your nature as a Lovecraftian monster is still fucking them up the whole time, until eventually you find out that the reasonable, sympathetic therapist you've come to think of as a friend over the course of your weekly meetings has been building a shrine to you out of hobo skeletons in his basement and brainwashing his other clients to make them "more useful" to you.

My understanding was that the "antagonist" role is taken by the insane Byzantine mess of feuds, alliances, and other drama between the various houses of Cthulhu monsters you've become a part of, so you'll end up being attacked by a group of Leviathans because your great-great-great aunt killed their great-great-great-great-great-great grandmother, only to have a different group of Leviathans leap to your defense over some similarly ancient & convoluted debt they owe you (oh, and now they want you to help them conquer French Polynesia because your great-times-fifty-grandfather and theirs were conquest buddies back during the late Cretaceous - wait, why are you giving them that look? It's not like they're asking for anything unusual.)


Hunchback: The Lurching
You are the Ygor!
I hate this one so much. This splat's theme, mood and lore are sound ideas but put together in one splat it falls apart. The whole aspect of how the Hunchbacks work mechanically turns me off. One of the ways that a Hunchback can gain back a power stat is being rejected by someone. The lore of Hunchback is really dark and doesn't seem to have any upsides (excluding magic powers); it just doesn't feel very inviting for me to play.
I've read through it, and I kind of disagree? I definitely think there are neat ideas in its content and the whole is definitely appropriate for WoD's atmosphere. It taps very heavily into themes like self-doubt, perceived (or real) flaws, and the idea of society as a fundamentally unfair and chaotic construct that all-too-often breeds contempt or other negative feeling towards people who've done nothing to deserve it.

The parts I remember most clearly are:


- A bloodline-equivalent Hunchback group whose members try to become "normal" through a horrific regimen of surgical modification and self-inflicted brainwashing, with a lot of references to The Island of Dr. Moreau.

- A Hunchback Lineage-equivalent that can choose one sensory element of themselves (their physical appearance, the sounds they make, etc) to be exempt from the normal Disquiet they provoke in normal people, and can assemble a small handful of "friends" who aren't affected by their Disquiet at all - in exchange for suffering automatic derangements and rolling for Morality loss if one of them dies or willingly cuts ties. The two examples were fairly well written and included a woman who'd made a successful career as a voice actress/radio announcer (and was dating her manager) and a rising star in the avant garde dance scene who used his Hunchback deformities as part of his performances and communicated solely through ASL.


It did seem to have a lack of focus on what you're supposed to do, though.
 
The Leviathan's antagonists are pretty weak though. Ancient secret society of white hats or just regular old leviathans are your choices and they are not really interesting.
My understanding was that the "antagonist" role is taken by the insane Byzantine mess of feuds, alliances, and other drama between the various houses of Cthulhu monsters you've become a part of, so you'll end up being attacked by a group of Leviathans because your great-great-great aunt killed their great-great-great-great-great-great grandmother, only to have a different group of Leviathans leap to your defense over some similarly ancient & convoluted debt they owe you (oh, and now they want you to help them conquer French Polynesia because your great-times-fifty-grandfather and theirs were conquest buddies back during the late Cretaceous - wait, why are you giving them that look? It's not like they're asking for anything unusual.)
There are actually a lot of them;
NPC Leviathans; which can be just as bad as Belial's Blood and Bale Hounds.
Separated into "technically supposed to be on your side", "NPC-only and preys on humans", and "might not exist anymore".

Cults and Hybrids; which, again, are supposed to help you but...

The ancient society like you said; The Marduk Society ,which is a Hunter Conspiracy of two-fisted pulp protagonists.

Ahabs; which are similar to Beast's "Heroes" except they don't play the sympathy card, or at least not as strongly and repeatedly as Beast did.

The Narcissists/Ridden; which are humans that have somehow grasped hold of Leviathan powers, to the point where they have their own Wake, which is the cult-forming thing.

Typhons; which are just Leviathans that have bottomed out on their Humanity-equivalent.

"Cryptids"; which are the "Behemoth" and "Ziz" to your Leviathan.

The Maggot Gods; which are worm monsters that regenerate and want to eat corpses, even if they have to kill you to get a new corpse.

The "Womb of Nations"/"Sisters of Many"; pan-dimensional cnidarians that want there to only be one form of life.

And the "Scorpions Armigers"; which might not be canon anymore, but were amphibian/arachnid hybrids that only viewed humans as a food source.
 
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Ahabs; which are similar to Beast's "Heroes" except they don't play the sympathy card, or at least not as strongly and repeatedly as Beast did.
Wait, how?! One of Beast's most egregious moments of sociopathic narcissism was the way it declared that anyone who dared oppose Beasts could only be doing it because they were redpilled Nazi child rapists, to the point where their example Heroes were a literal incel with a trenchcoat, katana, and fedora who stalked women in his free time and a shriveled old Pentacostal NRA devotee who blew her own son's head off with a shotgun because he was "possessed by the demon of homosexuality" and went around bombing abortion clinics in her free time.

The insistence on portraying Heroes as cartoonishly evil cardboard cutouts was the keystone in the arch of self-absorbed monstrousness that Beast wallowed in like the world's most repulsive hippopotamus - the complete and total dehumanization of any and all perceived enemies in order to fit the crack-addled vengeance fantasies that the line was apparently founded on.

I literally cannot imagine how you could do "Heroes, but less sympathetic" without achieving depths of tasteless edgelordery unseen since the days of 2e Exalted's extradimensional bestiality rape farms.
 
Wait, how?! One of Beast's most egregious moments of sociopathic narcissism was the way it declared that anyone who dared oppose Beasts could only be doing it because they were redpilled Nazi child rapists, to the point where their example Heroes were a literal incel with a trenchcoat, katana, and fedora who stalked women in his free time and a shriveled old Pentacostal NRA devotee who blew her own son's head off with a shotgun because he was "possessed by the demon of homosexuality" and went around bombing abortion clinics in her free time.

The insistence on portraying Heroes as cartoonishly evil cardboard cutouts was the keystone in the arch of self-absorbed monstrousness that Beast wallowed in like the world's most repulsive hippopotamus - the complete and total dehumanization of any and all perceived enemies in order to fit the crack-addled vengeance fantasies that the line was apparently founded on.

I literally cannot imagine how you could do "Heroes, but less sympathetic" without achieving depths of tasteless edgelordery unseen since the days of 2e Exalted's extradimensional bestiality rape farms.
As in minus the self justification, looking over 1E again Ahabs are actually amusingly analogous to Heroes. They have a bad reaction to the Leviathan's "worship me" aura and basically turn into Slashers aimed directly at Leviathans. Ahabs can even go back to being mostly normal if they do kill off all the nearby Leviathans. They're not even mentioned as going after cults or hybrids or potential Leviathans, just the Leviathans proper.

The sample NPC is a guy who was born into a small isolated island ruled by a Leviathan, the Ahab killed the Leviathan at the center, nobody else, and then went into retirement. He's not treated as in the wrong for doing so even, all implications were that his target was a complete monster. The only issue is that if another Leviathan gets near him he relapses, and that one may be a decent guy.

Leviathan isn't Beast and is therefore willing to acknowledge that while the Ahabs are serial killers, they're also targeting things that are very frequently a net negative to the world. They're not entirely treated as a good thing either, but having other antagonists and treating them more ambiguously helps a lot. It's not "only complete madmen go against the truly benevolent rule of these enlightened demigods" as it was in Beast. Having an actual hunter group detailed in the same chapter helps a lot.
 
Mmm, I think I had actually repressed most of that bullshit and mostly remembered the little kid in a coma.

It's actually bullshit. Beast has four exemples heroes in the corebook

Desmond Oakes: Ex military killing Beasts that prey on homeless. Text in the description is outright neutral/positive.

Thaddeus Persons: The MRA one. (even if it mostly coded through his use of m'lady) Even then Gardener is exaggerating the guy is described as a shitty paranoid bastard but he is not a stalker

Marian Jones: No mention her son was gay or she thought so or that she is affiliated with the NRA.

Sleeping Beauty: The comatose one. Even if I must note her backstory was cleaned up and is very much less creepy than in previous version. She was attacked in dream (which in RAW means the Beast in question was starving), killed her attackers and was lost in the Dream.


I continue to think the MRA/redpill movement is pretty spot-on for Heroes. A very big part of the Classical Heroic myth is that killing the monster entitles you to a reward, often the hand of the princess. People who resonate with the archetype of the hero could very well go with this morality.
 
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I continue to think the MRA/redpill movement is pretty spot-on for Heroes. A very big part of the Classical Heroic myth is that killing the monster entitles you to a reward, often the hand of the princess. People who resonate with the archetype of the hero could very well go with this morality.
What do you mean by "classical" here? Because that sure ain't what happens to ancient Greek heroes.
 
What do you mean by "classical" here? Because that sure ain't what happens to ancient Greek heroes.

Huh

Theseus kills the Minotaur and brings back with him two daughters of Minos, Phaedra and Ariadne. He abandons the former on Naxos and wed the latter.

Perseus uses the head of Medusa to save Andromeda, he weds her and uses the head to gain the throne of Seriphos.

Hercules gains nothing from his labors because they are an expiation in nature, yet his latter exploits have him laden with concubines which makes his wife uses Nessus' blood.

Oedipus kills the Sphinx. He becomes thus king and weds the queen. It doesn't work out for him.

Jason brings back the Golden Fleece in exchange for Iolchos' throne. While he doesn't gain Medea, you can certainly see this trope when in Corinth he is engaged to the king's daughter.

Ulysses do all his journeys to come back to his wife, except that defeating Circe entitles him to sleep with her and sire a son.


Killing monsters in Greece entitles you to a lot of cool shit, including sometimes the hand of the princess. In a way it's normal, most Greek heroes don't do their heroics of their own free will but are compelled to undergo a quest or another by their kings or family members.
 
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Mmm, I think I had actually repressed most of that bullshit and mostly remembered the little kid in a coma.
The girl who's on a vision quest through the Dreamlands, gatecrashing Beasts' lairs, wrecking their shit, and always hoping the next jump will be the one that takes her home? Yeah, she's an awesome character concept and a legitimately cool example of how you could have Heroes not suck.

Which is why the book slipped in a suggestion that she was basically Emma Barnes before the coma, and that if the ST wanted to have her as anything more than a one-note antagonist they should "reveal" that she's actually a proto-Beast whose dream journey to sell her soul to eldritch horrors has gone way off course*, so the players can "help" her understand that she should be traumatizing mortals and slurping up the fear-juice they emit instead of protecting them.

Still, they did have a Hero who's explicitly pointed out as "one of the good ones" in one of their supplements! He's a child psychologist brought in to help with the case of a creepy little Damien Omen motherfucker who's been using his Beast powers to leave frosbitten bite wounds on other kids who annoy him.

After spending weeks trying to figure out what is even the fuck, he suddenly awakens as a "good" Hero by essentially becoming a cultist of said monster-child, to the point where when a lifelong coworker points out that the kid is showing clear signs of mental disturbance, has seriously injured other children, shows no remorse whatsoever, and needs to be committed before he kills someone? He bludgeons her to death with a paperweight while monologuing to himself about how unspeakably evil she is for daring to impugn the honor of such a transcendent being. Then he walks off into the night to help little Damien get away with continuing to feast on his schoomates.

Wow.

The same supplement also accidentally included a Hero who is actually a good person in the form of an aspiring journalist who was trying to raise awareness of abuse victims and cases of local corruption - and then discovered that her good friend who ran the cameras was a gibbering kraken made of celluloid and acid, who'd been using her to sniff out emotionally vulnerable people for him to feast on later. Also, he'd been keeping copies of the interviews for himself to watch, alone, so he could get off to the sight of people struggling to discuss horrible things that had happened to them. Before he sent the demon that he fed his soul to into those peoples' sleeping minds so it could aggravate & feed on their pain.

When she found out, he tried to use Beast voodoo to erase her memories of it, and when that failed, he tried to use more voodoo to turn her into his personal Renfield. She then locked the sick fuck into the college film studio and burnt it down with him inside, then did her best to move on with her life.

Until she scored an interview with a slimy Gordon Gekko motherfucker who wanted to mock her ideals while boasting about how he'd just fleeced a major bank for millions and gotten away with it, and discovered that he was a Beast, as well. Further investigation revealed that Mr. Gekko had also been using a selection of crooked orphanages to procure damaged children he could keep in his basement as a thrifty source of spare fear to snack on (and also spare flesh, occasionally), and after blowing him and his estate to Kingdom Come, she started uncovering other things going bump in the night and the people bumping back against them.

From there, she essentially became the WoD equivalent of a superhero; exposing mortal shitbags by day, coordinating teams of Hunters to take out supernatural shitbags by night, and generally being a major force for good throughout a good chunk of the East Coast.

Of course, the book acts like her killing the sick pervert freak who was using her as a goddamn Judas goat so it could psychically attack battered housewives is an unforgivable act of cackling supervillainy, and says that she's totally just a vapid attention whore even though she uses her network to be a budget Oracle for multiple groups of people who've saved hundreds of lives between them by this point, and she doesn't start directing Hunters toward any Beast she uncovers until she has definitive proof that they've earned it.


* Because, in case you've forgotten, Beasts are people who willingly choose to have a spirit of primal fear and suffering devour their souls, and now derive power from said demonic abomination's vile hunger as it nestles within the bleeding hole where their humanity used to be.

Our heroes, ladies and gentlemen!



I continue to think the MRA/redpill movement is pretty spot-on for Heroes. A very big part of the Classical Heroic myth is that killing the monster entitles you to a reward, often the hand of the princess. People who resonate with the archetype of the hero could very well go with this morality.
The issue here is that Beasts are, to put it bluntly, a blight on the universe that any sane mind would want to see exterminated. They're lurching horrors that gleefully feed on human fear and human lives, dragging the already grim setting of nWoD further back into the Dark Ages while self-righteously declaring their predations to be "educational" and not the traumatic psychic (and often physical) assault it is. Even vampires, who are pretty much the scum of the Earth, don't try to pretend they're somehow doing the people they feed on a favor. Meanwhile, you have Beasts banging on about how this is totally a sacred duty and that's why you're not allowed to be mad about all those hitchhikers they ate.

Further, if we're going to bring real life things like the MRA/redpill movement into this? Then we have to sit down and discuss how painfully close Beast's general ethos for its protagonists is to that sort of human ugliness.

The series describes the Beasts as poor, misunderstood nerds being picked on by the big mean jocks, but then it systematically removes any sort of moral high ground by having the Beasts be just as vicious, selfish, and narcissistic as their perceived tormentors, then describing anyone who opposes them as being the Devil incarnate, because how could anyone with even a shred of goodness oppose your perfect beautiful sparklewolf and his whimsical crusade of psychic terrorism? It's the kind of self-indulgent, grotesque sort of revenge fantasy that would be right at home on Men Going Their Own Way or a radfem forum.

Beast isn't about being the lone voice of sanity fighting a tide of alt-right shittiness, it's about being the manager at a Wal-Mart who vents his spleen on any subordinate who reminds him of that guy who totally called him a loser that one time in college, then goes home to complain online about how hard it is being such a wonderful person in a world so full of evil monsters. It goes so far into sucking off the protagonists' martyr complexes and inflaming their sense of self-righteous persecution that it makes them just as ugly and nasty as they imagine their enemies to be.

Sure, they have a tiny handful of Heroes who aren't blatantly psychotic**, but they're pretty much token efforts by the authors to try and convince people they've totally dealt with all the sliminess present in the original design doc, while most of the actual text of the book hammers home, again and again and again, that every single Hero is a sociopathic glory hound who kills Beasts because it makes his tiny dick hard and has no allies, only sycophants and meat shields. They bring it up every time Heroes are mentioned, for any reason, and it even mechanically enforces that stereotype by stating that Heroes can't have a Morality higher than 4 - just barely above the "kill people and don't give a fuck" level of inhuman monstrousness that Vampires are supposed to eventually stabilize at.

The corebook states that back in the good ol' days, Heroes were good because they didn't try to fight Beasts and instead focused on convincing the other villagers that the giant lava ogre who just ate half their cattle and unleashed the Horror within itself to scourge their dreams is totally a good dude and they should take this as a lesson in not having so much cattle. It then claims that Heroes Are Bad because they let their ego get in the way of letting the Beasts "teach lessons" to humanity (in much the same way Jason Voorhees or Hannibal Lecter "teach lessons"), and the reason there aren't any nice Heroes is because any good person who has the potential to become one recognizes that the Beasts are morally superior and should be allowed to do as they please. If the book had outright explained that all this toxic horseshit was what Beasts think, and not objective reality, I might be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, but considering how halfhearted their attempts to course correct from the utterly vile rough draft they previewed are, and how earth-shatteringly fucked up that draft was?

They don't deserve it.


** Such as the guy who lives out on the coast and tries to avoid causing trouble for anyone, but when Beasts drift into his neck of the woods he can detect their presence as a horrible, neverending cacophony that just gets louder and louder and louder until all he can't even hear himself think, so his only choices are either to abandon the land his family's lived on for generations, or make the noise stop by any means necessary. His character writeup doesn't try to crowbar in "he's totally the Devil tho gais" like it does with almost every other, and the outcome is an NPC you could actually use without having to scrape too much dried dogshit off the edges!
 
Killing monsters in Greece entitles you to a lot of cool shit, including sometimes the hand of the princess. In a way it's normal, most Greek heroes don't do their heroics of their own free will but are compelled to undergo a quest or another by their kings or family members.
It also kind of happens a lot in fairy-tales, doesn't it? Impoverished tailor slays giant or performs some other massive task, marries princess and gets half the kingdom type of deal.
 
Such as the guy who lives out on the coast and tries to avoid causing trouble for anyone, but when Beasts drift into his neck of the woods he can detect their presence as a horrible, neverending cacophony that just gets louder and louder and louder until all he can't even hear himself think, so his only choices are either to abandon the land his family's lived on for generations, or make the noise stop by any means necessary. His character writeup doesn't try to crowbar in "he's totally the Devil tho gais" like it does with almost every other, and the outcome is an NPC you could actually use without having to scrape too much dried dogshit off the edges!
I find it amusing how this is literally an Ahab.
 
* Because, in case you've forgotten, Beasts are people who willingly choose to have a spirit of primal fear and suffering devour their souls, and now derive power from said demonic abomination's vile hunger as it nestles within the bleeding hole where their humanity used to be.
Our heroes, ladies and gentlemen!

I'd like to mention the earlier version that they didn't decide to use for some reason, where you were born as a Beast for some unexplained reason but could basically live as a normal person because your soul( your Beast) was asleep.
And if it ever woke up, which wasn't a definite thing, you then had a choice between feeding it to keep it quiet and sedated or letting it rampage through the collective subconscious.
....Why didn't the writers go with that version?
 
I'd like to mention the earlier version that they didn't decide to use for some reason, where you were born as a Beast for some unexplained reason but could basically live as a normal person because your soul( your Beast) was asleep.
And if it ever woke up, which wasn't a definite thing, you then had a choice between feeding it to keep it quiet and sedated or letting it rampage through the collective subconscious.
....Why didn't the writers go with that version?
Because it got construed as a metaphor for various minorities. Which got especially hilarious once you factor in that the original draft had Heroes as resulting solely from the actions of Beasts.
 
It also kind of happens a lot in fairy-tales, doesn't it? Impoverished tailor slays giant or performs some other massive task, marries princess and gets half the kingdom type of deal.
Is that really any different than the Cinderella/Bella Swan fantasy, though?

They all have the switch from peasant-/pleb-to-royalty/famous alongside discovering your inner power/beauty, getting a bitchin' Significant Other, and living happily ever after.
 
Unrelated to Beast.

I really want Genius to be good and work well but...yeah:sad:.
So if you were to add "Mad Scientists" into Chronicles of Darkness, maybe as an NPC-only thing since Mad Science can get really nuts really quickly, how would you go about doing it?
 
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