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White Wolf's World of Darkness

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So OPP dropped an update on Wr20 with another excerpt from the one section that I have been most psyched for, the Orpheus Appendix. And it did not disappoint. Unlike last month's update which really only had the amusing picture of Rich Thomas beating Rich Dansky to death with a copy of 2e WtO.

The Orpheus excerpt is pretty good. Definitely invokes Orpheus with shades of Wraith in it, complete with references to various Orpheus material like pigment, Project Flatline and Grandmother along with some hints of new things. Interestingly it appears that they are going for direction where the Projectors become wraiths rather than the Shades and Laments of Orpheus. Certainly it does reference Projectors using Arcanoi rather than the Horrors of Orpheus. Understandable given they're bringing Orpheus into Wraith. However on the interesting side the excerpt does note that hues, ghosts of people excessively used pigment in life, are a thing in the Underworld* and that wraiths seem to note that the 'wraiths' of Projectors are strange. Though that could mean anything from visually looking off to them acting strange compared to most wraiths. Personally I do kind of hope that there is something visually different from actual wraiths and those that are projectors.

*And guess what the Hierarchy does with hues. Hint: the same thing they do with all wraiths they don't like or that break their laws. Needless to say, it sucks to be a hue even more now.

Regardless this does give me a bit more hope for the Orpheus section of the book which is one of the things I'm most excited for and I've been plenty excited for Wr20 since long before the actual Kickstarter.

It kind of makes me want to go and crack open the Orpheus books again. Been years since I read the books. Orpheus may be the often forgotten WoD line but I've always found it to be one of the most enjoyable lines WW ever released.

Plus it's a game where you can get the chance to shoot Cthulhu Grandmother in the face.
 
So attempting to transfer my sheet over uncertain how effective the method I used is. From what I can tell the google drive viewed from safari shows it with weird overlapping lettering on some entries but otherwise fine, but downloading wipes everything but what I wrote in manually. And the google drive app just is missing all the text period. Curious to hear what others get.

Other than that wondering about any commentary on my build, he's fairly squishy, but loaded with tricks intended to prevent that from becoming too much of an issue. The one major problem I'm noticing is Demons really like their finesse attributes and he's a bit lacking in that department.
 
The Laurent said:
Oooh, Ooh.

"Whatever my one vulnerability is, I will fake a different one. For example, ordering all mirrors removed from the palace, screaming and flinching whenever someone accidentally holds up a mirror, etc. In the climax when the hero whips out a mirror and thrusts it at my face, my reaction will be 'Hmm... I think I need a shave.'"--Evil Overlord List.

So, fake being a vampire, and then when people try to burn you alive, say, "Ooh, that tickles." Or maybe, "Oh no, you have defeated me, I'm melting! I'm MELTING!!!!" and then 'play dead' in a way that makes it clear you're actually alive and just humoring them.

I mean, it's a solid strategy.
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The problem, of course, is when your allies assume that you don't need to breath because you're a vampire and neglect to mention that they're sending you into a room full of poison gas.
 
hyzmarca said:
The problem, of course, is when your allies assume that you don't need to breath because you're a vampire and neglect to mention that they're sending you into a room full of poison gas.
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Then you say that you are fine and keep walking through the room, and then when you're out of there, you unfuck yourself with one of your Form abilities or Embeds.
 
Generalissimo said:
Meanwhile at local Camarilla Elysium *nobody* is a vampire.
Just a bunch of people faking their aura who're just enjoying fun vampire culture.
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Going to begin fleshing out local Elysium where *nobody* is a vampire.
Needs a lot of work but here's what I have from top of my head.

The city's Prince is obviously Immortal playing Ventrue

Demon with a vampire cover is the Sheriff.

Elysium harpy is Aswang whose night persona is cosplaying a Mekhet.
(her daytime persona is hunter with steadfast Vigil and unknowingly hunting mostly just herself)

Local Tremere Chantry is Mage, Sorcerer, and Psychic altering their auras to seem vampiric.

Somehow a Werewolf is cosplaying as Gangrel.
 
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Generalissimo said:
Going to begin fleshing out local Elysium where *nobody* is a vampire.
Needs a lot of work but here's what I have from top of my head.

The city's Prince is obviously Immortal playing Ventrue

Demon with a vampire cover is the Sheriff.

Elysium harpy is Aswang whose night persona is cosplaying a Mekhet.
(her daytime persona is hunter with steadfast Vigil and unknowingly hunting mostly just herself)

Local Tremere Chantry is Mage, Sorcerer, and Psychic altering their auras to seem vampiric.

Somehow a Werewolf is cosplaying as Gangrel.
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Who else wants to actually play this game?
 
Generalissimo said:
Why do you prefer conspiring and backstabbing culture of :turian:vampires:turian: over conspiring and backstabbing culture of mages?
What's preventing you from noticing that nobody here is really a vampire?
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Well, I can't see through the Demon's trick because he can Spoof my Mage sight.

Demons and Mages are a really terrifying combination because Demons are masters of HUMINT and Mages are lords of SIGINT.

And hey, they even share some themes and are both broken as shit so I can crossover them without fear!
 
ManusDomine said:
Demons and Mages are a really terrifying combination because Demons are masters of HUMINT and Mages are lords of SIGINT.
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Say, could you please be so kind as to explain the first of the two claims? I'm not familiar with Demon, but given that mages can generally do almost anything (sufficient levels permitting), I'm curious about what sorts of things they can do that make them superior to mages on human intelligence (I'm asking this with an eye towards trying to get non-obvious ideas for my Mind/Corr mage).
 
vicky_molokh said:
Say, could you please be so kind as to explain the first of the two claims? I'm not familiar with Demon, but given that mages can generally do almost anything (sufficient levels permitting), I'm curious about what sorts of things they can do that make them superior to mages on human intelligence (I'm asking this with an eye towards trying to get non-obvious ideas for my Mind/Corr mage).
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Demons are ridiculous. With Covers you can be literally anyone, and Embeds are so hilariously subtle that you can accomplish almost anything with them, such as murdering Donald Trump in his bed by throwing a sandwich at your floor in your apartment.

The only thing that keeps Demon "balanced" is the fact that if they abuse their powers, God will send Terminators to murder them.

Granted, some people disagree with me here, such as @EarthScorpion and @Eukie who think they're just stupidly overpowered/athematic, and when I look at the powers that Demon presents me with, I can't really blame them honestly.
 
ManusDomine said:
Demons are ridiculous. With Covers you can be literally anyone, and Embeds are so hilariously subtle that you can accomplish almost anything with them, such as murdering Donald Trump in his bed by throwing a sandwich at your floor in your apartment.
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Sounds like Entropy/Correspondence? Is the whole point that they're equivalents of ridiculously high-level magics with automatic dozens of successes, or is there something more qualitative that makes them overpowered?
 
vicky_molokh said:
Sounds like Entropy/Correspondence? Is the whole point that they're equivalents of ridiculously high-level magics with automatic dozens of successes, or is there something more qualitative that makes them overpowered?
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No, the point is that they're in NWoD where magic is powered by high Potency and not tonnes of successes.

Most Mages in NWoD cannot manage more than like, a Potency of 5-6 if they're good, which means that since Demons don't take spell factor penalties, they can laugh and laugh while pulling effects like "kill X number of people, where X is (damage modifier + successes)" out of their ass.
 
vicky_molokh said:
Sounds like Entropy/Correspondence? Is the whole point that they're equivalents of ridiculously high-level magics with automatic dozens of successes, or is there something more qualitative that makes them overpowered?
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Demon's are like the horrific spawn of crossing an Acanthus, a changeling, and a werewolf with a bio-mechanical aesthetic slapped on for flavor.
 
ManusDomine said:
No, the point is that they're in NWoD where magic is powered by high Potency and not tonnes of successes.

Most Mages in NWoD cannot manage more than like, a Potency of 5-6 if they're good, which means that since Demons don't take spell factor penalties, they can laugh and laugh while pulling effects like "kill X number of people, where X is (damage modifier + successes)" out of their ass.
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So it's strictly a matter of them doing the same stuff but with better numbers?
 
vicky_molokh said:
So it's strictly a matter of them doing the same stuff but with better numbers?
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...No?

Demons work by...

Oh Jesus Christ why am I even doing this when I could copy from the book?

Demons have two kinds of powers: Embeds and Exploits, and now I'll detail them by copying them straight from the book.

Demon: The Descent said:
An Embed is a rule or natural law already hard-coded into the workings of the world that a demon can tap for a specific effect. For a mundane example, consider a child who knows of a loose board in a neighbor's fence. He can move the board, take a shortcut through the neighbor's yard, and save himself the time of running around the block. Anyone coulddo that, provided they have the same knowledge the child does (that is, that the board is loose) and that they can fit through the opening thus created.
Embeds work much the same way. Any demon can learn any Embed. The demon simply has to remember that the groundwork is there. As angels, all servants of the God Machine are aware of these pathways, but they make use of them differently. Angels do not make conscious effort to use Embeds, they are able to do so simply as part of their missions.
Going back to the example of the loose board in the fence, consider a dog or a cat that simply noses the board aside to get through. The animal doesn't think of the fence as a barrier or the loose board as an anomaly; for all it knows, that loose board was put there specifically to allow it passage. When a demon falls, she loses this instinctive, subconscious understanding of the world and must relearn these supernatural secrets. When she does, she is able to use Embeds in specific ways.
Embeds are not spells. They do not require ritual, sacrifice, or even specific knowledge or skill to use. A demon might justifiably liken remembering an Embed to a stroke victim relearning how to walk or ride a bicycle. The neural pathways are already in place and the muscle memory is there, it's just a
matter of training the body to reactivate these things.
Angels have different capabilities based on their missions. An angel doesn't normally think to question whether it can make use of mystical subroutines that it hasn't specifically been instructed to use, both because most angels don't question their missions and because, again, these subroutines aren't something that angels generally think about. That said, an angel that does start to consider these subroutines — thinking about the framework of reality, rather than just using it — might be getting close to falling. Once an angel does fall, she finds that certain types of Embeds are easier to remember than others, depending on her Incarnation.
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And Exploits:

Demon: The Descent said:
In contrast to Embeds, Exploits are not subtle at all. While they use the same metaphysical subroutines as Embeds, they are not relearned or remembered abilities but rather gross applications of the knowledge that the character already has. If an Embed is a word, and a set of Key Embeds is a sentence, then an Exploit is a shouted expletive. As such, Exploits are effective but run the risk of drawing attention.
Consider once again the metaphor of the child using the hole in the fence to sneak through a neighbor's yard. Applying that metaphor to Exploits, the child might kick the loose board free and use it to shatter the neighbor's glass patio door. An Exploit takes the knowledge imparted by an Embed and uses
it to better, or at least more dramatic, effect. Unlike Embeds, though, Exploits are obvious and flamboyant, and therefore a
risk to a demon's Cover.
An Exploit relies on a demon's knowledge of the world's metaphysical subroutines, just like Embeds, but instead of gently applying this knowledge, the demon forces Aether into the system, overcharging it and directing the result. While learning to use an Embed is a matter of re-acquiring knowledge that the demon had as an angel, learning to use an Exploit is more a matter of application. Angels therefore do not use Exploits — even their more grandiose powers are perfectly in line with their missions and therefore the parameters laid down by the God-Machine. An angel that decides to emulate a demon, pushing energy through the world's mystical framework just to see what will happen, is probably on the verge of Falling.
Learning a given Exploit requires that the demon has the knowledge base to do so. For example, in order to learn the Hellfire Exploit, the demon needs to understand how the subroutines work with regards to firearms. This means that the demon needs to know an Embed such as Check Backdrop or Merciless Gunman. Each Exploit lists a few potential prerequisite Embeds, but the demon need not know all of them in order to learn the Exploit. Indeed, if the player can make a convincing case for a why a given Embed enables the character to learn a given Exploit, the Storyteller should allow it. Demons are masters of lateral thinking — they had to be in order to Fall.
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Does this help?
 
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