Actually, that's another general question I've wrestled with. How Setting-OK is Second Sight with other stuff? Like, if you wanted to throw a Psychic in as the tool of a Seer, a mortal whose abilities they use because there are only so many Awakened and Proximi around and whatever this is has at least a few uses (and Seers want Arcane XP too by studying it), does that break the game balance or thematics somewhere?
Slasher mentions that Second Sight agents of VASCU could be a thing.
Conspiracies and Compacts features a sidebar for Second Sight and Loyalists of Thule.
I can't recall any other mentions of Second Sight in anything else.

If you're running with Company Zero in Dogs of War a Second Sight mercenary would be plenty appropriate.
Running with a mixed supernatural unit your psychic will be weakest guy in the squad?
Unless you're in a platoon of all psychics?
 
Actually, what would an alternate name be for the sort of Theban Sorcery that @ManusDomine + @EarthScorpion is proposing.

It's for the fic I'm writing. In universe, vampires aren't quite as...ancient. Or at least, don't twine back quite as far and as deep. So it's less likely that they'd call it Theban Sorcery, but there would be vampires who found some sort of 'holy, righteous' sorcerous power of some kind that's basically, yes, Theban Sorcery.

But calling it that would lead to literally everyone in the story stopping and saying, "The what now?"
 
Actually, what would an alternate name be for the sort of Theban Sorcery that @ManusDomine + @EarthScorpion is proposing.

It's for the fic I'm writing. In universe, vampires aren't quite as...ancient. Or at least, don't twine back quite as far and as deep. So it's less likely that they'd call it Theban Sorcery, but there would be vampires who found some sort of 'holy, righteous' sorcerous power of some kind that's basically, yes, Theban Sorcery.

But calling it that would lead to literally everyone in the story stopping and saying, "The what now?"

Miracles
 
Actually, what would an alternate name be for the sort of Theban Sorcery that @ManusDomine + @EarthScorpion is proposing.

It's for the fic I'm writing. In universe, vampires aren't quite as...ancient. Or at least, don't twine back quite as far and as deep. So it's less likely that they'd call it Theban Sorcery, but there would be vampires who found some sort of 'holy, righteous' sorcerous power of some kind that's basically, yes, Theban Sorcery.

But calling it that would lead to literally everyone in the story stopping and saying, "The what now?"

Thaumaturgy.

Yes I'm serious.
 
So, hmm.

Chastisement of the Indulgent

"Longinus found the Creature of Bethlehem, feeding on a young woman of that town. With his keen eyes, he saw the Creature fed to excess and cared not for the sins of the woman. With a cudgel he beat the Creature around the head, shouting 'You are a beast, so flee like a dog' and the Creature fled."

The vampire activates this Miracle after successfully striking a character with their bare hands or a blunt object and exclaiming some words of condemnation or chastisement for their actions.

Action: Reflexive
Duration: Special
Dice Pool: Charisma + Intimidation + Blood Potency vs Composure + Blood Potency
Sanction: May only be used on a character observed to be indulging in a Vice, or a vampire in Frenzy

Roll Results
Dramatic Failure: The vampire becomes aware of his own sins. He enters Fear Frenzy.
Failure: The judgement of God does not strike fear into the heart of the sinner.
Success: The vampire gains more successes, and the target is struck down with fear and knowledge of their sins. A vampire in Frenzy automatically transitions to a Fear Frenzy for the rest of the duration of the Frenzy. A character indulging in a vice suffers a penalty to all actions equal to the vampire's successes from the overwhelming shame, while they can see the vampire. This lasts until the next sunrise. Actions to flee the presence of the vampire do not suffer this penalty.
Exceptional Success: In addition to the benefits from the additional successes, the character takes a single point of damage from fire on the point the vampire struck them.​

Sorry for double posting, but I only noticed this one now and I simply have to comment on it.

So, hmm.

Chastisement of the Indulgent

"Longinus found the Creature of Bethlehem, feeding on a young woman of that town. With his keen eyes, he saw the Creature fed to excess and cared not for the sins of the woman. With a cudgel he beat the Creature around the head, shouting 'You are a beast, so flee like a dog' and the Creature fled."

The vampire activates this Miracle after successfully striking a character with their bare hands or a blunt object and exclaiming some words of condemnation or chastisement for their actions.

This format is good, the flavor is wonderful and very appropriate.


The activation is definetely good. So far, so good.

Action: Reflexive
Duration: Special
Dice Pool: Charisma + Intimidation + Blood Potency vs Composure + Blood Potency
Sanction: May only be used on a character observed to be indulging in a Vice, or a vampire in Frenzy

This is all good, Sanction is definitely good. The fact that it works on vampires in Frenzy is a nice touch, and also makes it more generally useful.

The fact that Blood Potency is used in the dice pool is also good.

Roll Results
Dramatic Failure: The vampire becomes aware of his own sins. He enters Fear Frenzy.
Failure: The judgement of God does not strike fear into the heart of the sinner.
Success: The vampire gains more successes, and the target is struck down with fear and knowledge of their sins. A vampire in Frenzy automatically transitions to a Fear Frenzy for the rest of the duration of the Frenzy. A character indulging in a vice suffers a penalty to all actions equal to the vampire's successes from the overwhelming shame, while they can see the vampire. This lasts until the next sunrise. Actions to flee the presence of the vampire do not suffer this penalty.
Exceptional Success: In addition to the benefits from the additional successes, the character takes a single point of damage from fire on the point the vampire struck them.​

Dramatic Failure is definitely good, failure is the usual "nothing happens you fucking casual" failure-state.

Success, I would change to a penalty of (10-[target's Humanity]), due to the fact that Theban Sorcery should interact with Humanity (just not your Humanity), and while this can become a very hefty penalty it is balanced out by the fact that it is a rather situational ritual, but otherwise a very well-written ritual. Now I will respond with one of my own:

The Uncloaking of Sin

"Longinus once came to the Greeks, who all debated and talked and asked him what the meaning of sin was. And Longinus responded by showing them a mirror and said 'Here you see the face of sin! For sinful is the man who would rather debate the meaning of sin, than act against it!' and they repented their sins and asked to learn from him."

The vampire activates this Miracle after declaring a character to be sinful or weak, and successfully persuading someone in the same room or locale that this is true.

Action: Instant
Duration: Special
Dice Pool: None
Sanction: May only be used on a character observed to be indulging in a Vice, and may not be used if you have indulged in your Vice in the same scene.

Roll Results
Dramatic Failure: The vampire sees the weakness within himself. He becomes affected by this ritual, and in a show of how even the mighty must bow before God, subtract their Blood Potency from their Humanity for the purpose of the ritual.
Failure: They remain unable to see the sin for what it is.
Success: Roll their (10 - [Humanity]), causing one point of lethal damage per success, and applying a -1 penalty to all social rolls for the remainder of the scene. If they immediately promise to repent, they do not take damage from this ritual, but must act upon their Virtue on the next chance they get, or spend a point of Willpower in which case they immediately take damage as if they were affected with this ritual. Characters with the Faith Virtue, who choose repentance do not take the penalty either.
Exceptional Success: They must roll against Fear Frenzy as well.​
 
Sorry for double posting, but I only noticed this one now and I simply have to comment on it.



This format is good, the flavor is wonderful and very appropriate.


The activation is definetely good. So far, so good.



This is all good, Sanction is definitely good. The fact that it works on vampires in Frenzy is a nice touch, and also makes it more generally useful.

The fact that Blood Potency is used in the dice pool is also good.



Dramatic Failure is definitely good, failure is the usual "nothing happens you fucking casual" failure-state.

Success, I would change to a penalty of (10-[target's Humanity]), due to the fact that Theban Sorcery should interact with Humanity (just not your Humanity), and while this can become a very hefty penalty it is balanced out by the fact that it is a rather situational ritual, but otherwise a very well-written ritual. Now I will respond with one of my own:

The Uncloaking of Sin

"Longinus once came to the Greeks, who all debated and talked and asked him what the meaning of sin was. And Longinus responded by showing them a mirror and said 'Here you see the face of sin! For sinful is the man who would rather debate the meaning of sin, than act against it!' and they repented their sins and asked to learn from him."

The vampire activates this Miracle after declaring a character to be sinful or weak, and successfully persuading someone in the same room or locale that this is true.

Action: Instant
Duration: Special
Dice Pool: None
Sanction: May only be used on a character observed to be indulging in a Vice, and may not be used if you have indulged in your Vice in the same scene.

Roll Results
Dramatic Failure: The vampire sees the weakness within himself. He becomes affected by this ritual, and in a show of how even the mighty must bow before God, subtract their Blood Potency from their Humanity for the purpose of the ritual.
Failure: They remain unable to see the sin for what it is.
Success: Roll their (10 - [Humanity]), causing one point of lethal damage per success, and applying a -1 penalty to all social rolls for the remainder of the scene. If they immediately promise to repent, they do not take damage from this ritual, but must act upon their Virtue on the next chance they get, or spend a point of Willpower in which case they immediately take damage as if they were affected with this ritual. Characters with the Faith Virtue, who choose repentance do not take the penalty either.
Exceptional Success: They must roll against Fear Frenzy as well.​
But.... 2e Vampires don't have virtues.
 
How does inducting someone into a bloodline work, by the way? Can it be done against someone's will?

I mean, they're already a vampire, and I know that plenty of people are made vampires by force, but are Bloodlines different?
 
How does inducting someone into a bloodline work, by the way? Can it be done against someone's will?

I mean, they're already a vampire, and I know that plenty of people are made vampires by force, but are Bloodlines different?

I do remember that a vampire can inherit a bloodline without it being their will.

Like, for example, a Mekhet whose sire is a Morbus can find themselves becoming a Morbus even if they don't want it.
 
Chehrazad looks at Fighting Styles and cries herself to sleep - Episode 4
Because I am practically livid with anger right now at what is going on in Panopticon Quest, I figured I needed to channel this into something:

Chehrazad looks at Fighting Styles and cries herself to sleep - Episode 4


In which we look at the following Styles:

Fencing
Fencing is on the 1-4 scale and has a requirement of Dexterity 3 and Weaponry 3, making it rather easy to pick up. It can also only be used with curved swords, fencing swords, rapiers and sword canes, using other swords take a -1 penalties.

This gives you a +1 to attacks when you make them from a fencing stance, quite probably the saddest first level I've seen yet.

Make an attack roll as normal, if successful you may call a feint and not do any damage to them, instead disallowing them to apply their Defense at all against your next attack. This one seems good, and is fairly acceptable but it really isn't that good.

This one, however is absolutely hilarious when used one on one. If you are Dodging, and an attack misses you, you may immediately make an attack at a -1 penalty that the opponent cannot apply Defense against, the drawback is that other attacks aimed at you will ignore your Defense until your next turn.

Now this one is glorious, it allows you to spend a point of Willpower and forego the usual benefits of doing so, this allows you to add (your Dexterity) automatic points of damage if you do at least one point.

Observe as a Life Mage boosts his Dexterity to 10 and laughs and laughs and laughs and laughs...

Filipino Martial Arts
This Style can only be practiced with blunt weapons, when you reach the final dot you may perform it unarmed. It requires Dexterity 3 and Weaponry 3.

If someone makes an attack against you, you may make a Strength + Weaponry roll, if you succeed this, they are automatically grappled. This is not contested and has no other drawbacks. You may also add your Defense to the roll, but then you can't apply it to anything else.

Make a Dexterity + Weaponry - Defense roll that needs a number of successes equal to the target's Stamina, if you accomplish this, the opponent drops his weapon and takes (your successes/2) points of bashing damage.

Off-Balancing Blow (3)
Make an attack at a -2 penalty, if it succeeds the opponent's next attack takes a -3 penalty.

This is fucking sad for a level 3 ability jesus fuck what.

Many-Handed Defense (4)
You no longer take Defense and Dodge penalties from multiple attackers.

Yes I am serious.

Sniping
With a requirement of Dexterity 3, Resolve 3, Firearms 3 and Stealth 2, this stands in stark contrast to the earlier Fighting Styles and can only be practiced with weapons of rangefite.

The benefit you receive for Aiming is now capped at your (Composure + 1), unless you use a bolt-action, lever-action or break-action, in which case it becomes (Composure + 2). In addition, you gain a +2 to your perception rolls when you use long-range optic devices such as binoculars or scopes.

This ability is either absolutely hilarious or absolutely useless depending on the situation.

Battlesight Zero (2)
With this ability, you double the number of attacks that benefit from using sighting tools. Also your weapon's short range is extended by (5 * Wits), medium range is extended by (4 * Wits) and long range is extended by (3 * Wits).

Neat if you play Dogs of War I guess?

Penalties are a lie, made to chain the minds of men.

This ability allows you to reduce any penalties to an aimed shot by your Resolve.

If you play a Dogs of War game, this is absolutely fucking hilarious. Unfortunately no one plays Dogs of War, so it isn't.

Tactical Intervention (4)
Whenever you make an aimed shot, you halve all penalties for shooting into close combat and concealment, rounded down. I don't think I need to mention how neat this is in Dogs of War.

One Shot, One Kill (5)
Spend a Willpower and add your damage modifier as successes instead of dice.

It's a nice style, but plagued by the dreaded "will only be used if you play with this specific book" syndrome.
 
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Make an attack roll as normal, if successful you may call a feint and not do any damage to them, instead disallowing them to apply their Defense at all against your next attack. This one seems good, and is fairly acceptable but it really isn't that good.

Once again, I'll point out that its main use appears to be with Fighting Style Werewolf who's up against ludicrously overstatted spirit Defences which may be nearly as high as his attack pool. So after Boxing Werewolf has punched a bird spirit unconscious, he draws his rapier when a big nasty high Defence spirit shows up [1].

This merit is only useful when (2*pool - 2*defence) < (pool), or to put it another way, when Defence > (0.5*pool).

Which means you're in the weird position where your Feint gets less useful to you as you get better at fencing.

[1] Or, you know, he pulls out a shotgun. Which is just better at this.
 
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Because I am practically livid with anger right now at what is going on in Panopticon Quest...
I hate to ask this, but I was actually considering reading that quest, so what's gone wrong?

Like, are we talking "Black Sun Bart leaves his entire fucking crew to die" levels of psychotic threadgoers bullshit, or ShaperV-style authorial bullshit?
 
I hate to ask this, but I was actually considering reading that quest, so what's gone wrong?

Like, are we talking "Black Sun Bart leaves his entire fucking crew to die" levels of psychotic threadgoers bullshit, or ShaperV-style authorial bullshit?

Nah, the quest is awesome, read the fuck out of that quest.

The problem was that a few people didn't like some characters and a specific vote, and it kinda escalated.
 
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Once again, I'll point out that its main use appears to be with Fighting Style Werewolf who's up against ludicrously overstatted spirit Defences which may be nearly as high as his attack pool. So after Boxing Werewolf has punched a bird spirit unconscious, he draws his rapier when a big nasty high Defence spirit shows up [1].

This merit is only useful when (2*pool - 2*defence) < (pool), or to put it another way, when Defence > (0.5*pool).

Which means you're in the weird position where your Feint gets less useful to you as you get better at fencing.

[1] Or, you know, he pulls out a shotgun. Which is just better at this.

It's all worth it for that last dot though.

Jesus fuck whose idea was it?

EDIT: The combo of Riposte and Moulinet is also pretty dumb, allowing you to constantly dodge and make attacks that do six damage at minimum if they hit, assuming you possess Dexterity 5.
 
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It's all worth it for that last dot though.

Jesus fuck whose idea was it?

EDIT: The combo of Riposte and Moulinet is also pretty dumb, allowing you to constantly dodge and make attacks that do six damage at minimum if they hit, assuming you possess Dexterity 5.
I remember the first time I tried to read Panopticon. I was like, "okay I've just read the few entries, this Jamelia person seems interesting, I'm gonna jump to the last updates to get a sense of where the Quest is now- who are all these people and what are they doing and where is Jamelia?"

These days when I occasionally glance at a PQ update or debate because people mentioned it on IRC, the question at the front of my mind is always "where is Jamelia?" and I never get an answer :V
 
Panopticon really suffers from character bloat.

It's what happens when you start with a full pc-alike party and then introduce more people.
 
I don't have a problem keeping track of them (though for some reason I bailed out at...end of Act 3 and just haven't gotten back on), but it is really difficult to do the ensemble cast sort of thing well, and while I think I've seen a lot of interesting character beats, and none of the character's are two-dimensional, the demands of the plot mean that people (other than Belltower who gets a hell of a lot) mostly only get serious fleshing out at the whims/interests of the voter-base.

Not sure how to put it, exactly. Certain people get a lot of characterization, while others, while not quite flanderized, are more played as a relatively simple character/joke because that fits the beats of the story more in the mind of whoever is writing the post. (I say whoever because, well, ES writes half the Quest as a voter, and other people have also taken turns writing part of the Quest as a voter. That still sorta baffles me.)
 
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