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White Wolf's World of Darkness

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The "why not just get it from a blood bank" discussion from a few pages back amuses me, because of a scene I recently read in The Rhesus Chart - an installation in Lovecraftian spy thriller series The Laundry Files which involves vampires - where two newly created vampires try to use their mind control powers to steal blood from a hospital, resulting in the somewhat-dazed hospital technician explaining that they store about one unit of whole blood in the actual hospital and order the rest in on a per-patient basis, because it's just too valuable and has a short shelf life. The NHS, she tells them, values blood at around £120 per unit (a pint, or a third of a liter), never has more than ten days supply in stock at the Blood and Transplant Service's stores, and is tracked down to the unit, on a per-patient basis.

So "stealing blood from a blood bank" would be less like waltzing in and using Dominate on the nearest syringe-wielding nurse, and more like owning your own business which you quietly and dangerously embezzle a really quite expensive resource from. In this case, the business is a hospital.

Malkavian said:
So how hard would it be to use nWoD for a Worm quest? So far I've been looking at Mirrors to streamline it which has helped but I'm unsure how to incorporate powers[1] and the like. I have looked at Weaver Dice and while nice it's not something I'm sure that I'd want to run.

[1] Since the PC is essentially going to be a Changing Breed I did think about Forsaken 1e or 2e, but I'm not sure how well it'd fit. That is using mechanics alone with none of the setting involved in it like the Urathra or Maeljin.
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Not really sure why you'd use nWoD, to be honest. There are existing systems for running superhero games that would handle Worm perfectly well, or you could always just do the generic thing and adapt FATE.
 
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Revlid said:
The "why not just get it from a blood bank" discussion from a few pages back amuses me, because of a scene I recently read in The Rhesus Chart - an installation in Lovecraftian spy thriller series The Laundry Files which involves vampires - where two newly created vampires try to use their mind control powers to steal blood from a hospital, resulting in the somewhat-dazed hospital technician explains that they store about one unit of whole blood in the actual hospital and order the rest in on a per-patient basis, because it's just too valuable and has a short shelf life. The NHS, she tells them, values blood at around £120 per unit (a pint, or a third of a liter), never has more than ten days supply in stock at the Blood and Transplant Service's stores, and is tracked down to the unit, on a per-patient basis.

So "stealing blood from a blood bank" would be less like waltzing in and using Dominate on the nearest syringe-wielding nurse, and more like owning your own business which you quietly and dangerously embezzle a really quite expensive resource from. In this case, the business is a hospital.
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That's also something that is the case in the nWoD - it's mentioned in the Blood Farm stuff in Shadows of the UK that, yeah, no you actually can't just get your hands on blood from a blood bank. It doesn't work - blood is just tracked so well.

(Which is why an amoral businessman has been taking illegal immigrants and then using them for blood extraction, and then selling the corpses as pet food. Sometimes a Kindred just needs a stockpile of reserve blood and he's willing to provide it.)
 
EarthScorpion said:
That's also something that is the case in the nWoD - it's mentioned in the Blood Farm stuff in Shadows of the UK that, yeah, no you actually can't just get your hands on blood from a blood bank. It doesn't work - blood is just tracked so well.

(Which is why an amoral businessman has been taking illegal immigrants and then using them for blood extraction, and then selling the corpses as pet food. Sometimes a Kindred just needs a stockpile of reserve blood and he's willing to provide it.)
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Given the number of people you'd have to bleed for a blood farm, it seems that at this point, it might be better to run an actual farm, in the 'vampires as analogy for nobility' thing. Provide protection and services in exchange for blood. Yes, you're still being a predatory parasite but at least you can convince yourself this way you're doing something nice!
 
Clearly the solution is to be a mad biologist Tzimisce, make Revenant rabbits, and unleash them on some poor, undefended woodland. Then feed off their blood pool rather than eating things that're sapient.

Invasive species? Bah, a paltry concern for OPTIMAL ETHICAL CALCULUS.
 
Revlid said:
Not really sure why you'd use nWoD, to be honest. There are existing systems for running superhero games that would handle Worm perfectly well, or you could always just do the generic thing and adapt FATE.
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Mostly because it's what I'm familiar with. I suppose I could try it with M&M 3e though I've only dabbled with the system. I'll have to look others as well.
 
Revlid said:
The "why not just get it from a blood bank" discussion from a few pages back amuses me, because of a scene I recently read in The Rhesus Chart - an installation in Lovecraftian spy thriller series The Laundry Files which involves vampires - where two newly created vampires try to use their mind control powers to steal blood from a hospital, resulting in the somewhat-dazed hospital technician explains that they store about one unit of whole blood in the actual hospital and order the rest in on a per-patient basis, because it's just too valuable and has a short shelf life. The NHS, she tells them, values blood at around £120 per unit (a pint, or a third of a liter), never has more than ten days supply in stock at the Blood and Transplant Service's stores, and is tracked down to the unit, on a per-patient basis.

So "stealing blood from a blood bank" would be less like waltzing in and using Dominate on the nearest syringe-wielding nurse, and more like owning your own business which you quietly and dangerously embezzle a really quite expensive resource from. In this case, the business is a hospital.
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It's the limited shelf life that makes it viable. The blood bank is going to dispose of it on schedule. All you have to do is use the Preserve Blood ritual on it when its fresh, so that it doesn't actually go bad, and then pick it up when they throw it away. It won't be noticed missing because they'd expect it to be incinerated.

Quantumboost said:
Clearly the solution is to be a mad biologist Tzimisce, make Revenant rabbits, and unleash them on some poor, undefended woodland. Then feed off their blood pool rather than eating things that're sapient.

Invasive species? Bah, a paltry concern for OPTIMAL ETHICAL CALCULUS.
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If you're going that far, you might as well make Settite Beer and get a couple of Ghouls.

Settite Beer costs 1 blood point per gallon to make and is worth 1 blood point per pint when a Ghoul drinks it. So your ghoul chugs some, you drink from your ghoul, and he can burn a little to heal the damage and still have some left over.
 
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hyzmarca said:
It's the limited shelf life that makes it viable. The blood bank is going to dispose of it on schedule. All you have to do is use the Preserve Blood ritual on it when its fresh, so that it doesn't actually go bad, and then pick it up when they throw it away. It won't be noticed missing because they'd expect it to be incinerated.
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This gets much easier if you have a few Ghouls working there.
 
MJ12 Commando said:
Given the number of people you'd have to bleed for a blood farm, it seems that at this point, it might be better to run an actual farm, in the 'vampires as analogy for nobility' thing. Provide protection and services in exchange for blood. Yes, you're still being a predatory parasite but at least you can convince yourself this way you're doing something nice!
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Yes, that's the standard "Herd" merit fluffed a certain way. The Blood Farm in Shadows of the UK is a spin on a British urban myth - that some dog food companies traffic people and put them in pedigree dog food sold to breeders.

But blood farms are a real world problem.
 
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MJ12 Commando said:
Given the number of people you'd have to bleed for a blood farm, it seems that at this point, it might be better to run an actual farm, in the 'vampires as analogy for nobility' thing. Provide protection and services in exchange for blood. Yes, you're still being a predatory parasite but at least you can convince yourself this way you're doing something nice!
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I mean, if you're offering them a service at what is effectively a lower rate than the competition because you just want some blood while everyone else wants money or your life, well, is it really being a parasite? Trade makes everyone better off after all!

Vampire as a capitalism metaphor ho!
 
In the post-atomic future, the wasteland is dotted by tiny patches of civilization maintained by vampire blood magic. Survivors flock to these blood-fueld oasises, which are often the only available sources of clean food and water. In exchange for meals, shelter, and an opportunity to build a real life, they regularly tithe to the vampire lords, who use their blood to further grow and maintain the oasises.
 
hyzmarca said:
In the post-atomic future, the wasteland is dotted by tiny patches of civilization maintained by vampire blood magic. Survivors flock to these blood-fueld oasises, which are often the only available sources of clean food and water. In exchange for meals, shelter, and an opportunity to build a real life, they regularly tithe to the vampire lords, who use their blood to further grow and maintain the oasises.
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Wasn't that a legitimate post-Gehenna option?
 
Sydonai said:
Really?
I thought there was a "the End of the World happened, what little of humanity survived are kept in a single city and protected by the vampires that feed on them" one.
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Nope.

1) Wormwood: God kills all the vampires. If you're sufficiently angsty, he might turn you into a human instead.

2) Fair is Foul: Lillith tries to kill Caine while Losambra tries to kill Lillith and Tzimisce tries to diablarize both of them. Also, God kills all the vampires. You might survive if you make a deal with Lillith for her protection.

3) Nightshade: Vampire ninjas fight Kaiju in the streets of New York. Attempts to contain this masquarade breach fail. The Camarilla effectively breaks up, and so does the Sabbat, to a lesser degree. New faction lines are drawn as the vampires try to work out how to deal with this mess. Lots get diablarized in the infighting. Vampire powers go wonky. The PCs do archeology for no reason and find Saulot in the Second City. The Antedeluvians show up near Jerusalem for some reason and force the surviving vampires to build a giant stone city. Saulot kills the other Antediluvians and himself by channeling God's power, then God kills all the other vampires except high humanity 15th generation ones, including the PCs. And then Tzimisce comes back to life, having effectively outwitted God. Other than collapse of the Masquarade, the humans don't really notice any of this. Though one can presume that they'll all be devoured by Tzimisce now that there is no one left to stop him.

4)Crucible of God: The Masquarade is broken, but not because of something as cool as a vampire vs kaiju fight. The PCs just screw up so badly that no amount of effort can cover up their mistake. And this is plot mandated. The book tells the storyteller to screw over the PCs in a grossly unfair manner in order to force a masquerade breach. Some Kindred are able to use their vampire status to get a measure of fame. But then the government flips out and sends the army after them. The army wins. Flamethrowers > Disciplines. Vampires are either exterminated outright or herded into death camps where their blood is drained for the consumption of high-ranking politicians. Then the Antediluvians wake up. They eat most of the surviving vampires, mind control most of the ones that survive that. Some of them try to conquer the world. Some of them just try to fuck shit up. They fight and kill each other. Then Tzimisce wakes up, eats everyone except the PCs and Saulot. Then he eats the PCs and Saulot. If they have very high humanity they can kill him by channeling the power of God. Otherwise, Tzimisce wins. There are three possible endings from here, depending on how dickish the Storyteller is feeling. 1- God kills all the vampires (you can see a recurring theme here), including the PCs unless they have high humanity. If they do then they become mortal and can help rebuild human civilization. 2- God kills all the remaining vampires except the PCs and Cain. The PCs get upgraded to First Generation, and they lose their clan weaknesses. Caine just gets trolled by an incredibly dickish omnipotent being. 3- Tzimisce dies, so does everyone he devoured except the PCs, which includes all life on the planet, plant, animal, bacteria, or otherwise. The PCs are the last beings on a barren and lifeless world.
 
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hyzmarca said:
3) Nightshade: Vampire ninjas fight Kaiju in the streets of New York. Attempts to contain this masquarade breech fail. The Camarilla effectively breaks up, and so does the Sabbat, to a lesser degree. New faction lines are drawn as the vampires try to work out how to deal with this mess. Lots get diablarized in the infighting. Vampire powers go wonky. The PCs do archeology for no reason and find Saulot in the Second City. The Antedeluvians show up near Jerusalem for some reason and force the surviving vampires to build a giant stone city. Saulot kills the other Antediluvians and by channeling God's power, then God kills all the other vampires except high humanity 15th generation ones, including the PCs unless they're 15th Generation and have high humanity. And then Tzimisce comes back to life, having effectively outwitted God. Other than collapse of the Masquarade, the humans don't really notice any of this. Though one can presume that they'll all be devoured by Tzimisce now that there is no one left to stop him.
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This is why you don't write drugged, kids.
 
Laundreu said:
Laundreu said:
I've got a bit of a question - where would I go to learn how to run Mage: the Ascension revised? Is the Storyteller's guide any good for teaching someone how to ST the mechanical bits or is there some useful website or another that goes over the ins and outs of the game?
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Re-asking, hopefully avoiding the Mage/Werewoof genocide debate~
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Laundreu is a friend, so @MJ12 Commando, @EarthScorpion, mebbe @Revlid, can you do anything to help them out, or maybe point out somebody who can? You're basically the most knowledgeable Mage folks I know.
 
hyzmarca said:
Caine just gets trolled by an incredibly dickish omnipotent being.
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To be fair that's pretty much how has always treated Caine.

And I have to admit, the first time I read that passage in the book I snickered a little.

hyzmarca said:
Nightshade starts out with a great premise. Ninja vampires fight Kaiju in New York and how vampire society deals with the masquerade collapse is actually interesting. Then they screw it up by inserting the Antediluvians and God.
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All four scenarios had great parts to them, largely ruined by the Antes and God.

And of course prolonged moments of intense railroading but that's common to the final books of the Big Three.
 
I liked Wormwood, honestly, and it was the most God-centric of them all. :V The final challenge isn't one you can fight, or seduce, or run frightened into the shadows from, and it had a certain... coherence that the others didn't. Just the idea of twenty vampires locked in a church, contemplating judgement is one that appeals to me more than the others.
 
Imrix said:
Laundreu is a friend, so @MJ12 Commando, @EarthScorpion, mebbe @Revlid, can you do anything to help them out, or maybe point out somebody who can? You're basically the most knowledgeable Mage folks I know.
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I have actually found that mage STing advice depends oh so heavily on the group and what they know or don't know about the game, as well as what the actual theme of the game is. Like, something that's super broken in a street level game where everyone is playing gutter mystics is probably not nearly as broken in a game where everyone's an Iteration X cybersoldier ready to kick names and take ass.

(Yes, kick names, you can do that with Entropy).
 
So, i got Gehenna and opened it by a random page:

Storytellers who trust their players to roleplay a suicide attempt can secretly inform a Setite character of this new compulsion[..]. It's up to the other players to detect the suicidal drive of his coterie-mate and decide what to do about him. if you think your players can't handle such a situation, declare the Setite now a storyteller character.

(This is, of course, grossly unfair to Setitecharacters. Don't worry, though - they will have a lot of company soon. The End of the world brings a lot of "unfairness" for everyone).
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Now, if i ever need to build a railroad i know who to call.
 
NonSequtur said:
I liked Wormwood, honestly, and it was the most God-centric of them all. :V The final challenge isn't one you can fight, or seduce, or run frightened into the shadows from, and it had a certain... coherence that the others didn't. Just the idea of twenty vampires locked in a church, contemplating judgement is one that appeals to me more than the others.
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Honestly, I think that Wormwood is the scenario that most benefits from removing God, or at least all direct evidence of Him. Wormwood, as it is set up, tells the players to always take the paragon option, or else they will lose. Its detrimental to roleplay, because it has an obvious correct solution.

But, if you add some ambiguity to it, that's different. If you don't tell them that it's God's judgement, let them come up with reasons on their own, that's different. That leads to a wider variety of acceptable choices.
 
Sydonai said:
Really?
I thought there was a "the End of the World happened, what little of humanity survived are kept in a single city and protected by the vampires that feed on them" one.
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I'm fairly sure that's a 'alternative setting' for Vampire the Requirem. I'm not sure what book its in (might be the chroniclers guide, Danse Macabre or Damnation city. Though I think its more there's one city and the vampire population is ruthlessly kept stable because there is simply not enough mortals left.
 
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