Ask @EarthScorpion, @Jon Chung and I think possibly @Revlid, who I believe have been working on a Praxis system that is essentially "hey, oMage paradigms were pretty sweet, can we do that in nMage too?"

Sort of. That alteration is in the context of retooling Mage to have a tier of lesser magicians (Proximi and Sorcerers) with the focus set there rather than the reality-warping baby Exarchs that are actual mages. Mages get their mage on just like they usually do.

In essence, a magician is one who has learned fragments of Supernal Truth but is not a Mage, they do not exist 'outside the Matrix'. As such, the magic they can use is defined as a strict list of Contract-like powers granted by the Mysteries they have learned, and because this is about Truth, every Mystery they have must be rooted in something that by definition is something they believe is true. Praxis here is just 'all the mystic secret things you know are True'. This can obviously vary by characters' Mystery sets, and you obviously can't learn something that you can't justify fitting into your Praxis worldview.
 
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Sort of. That alteration is in the context of retooling Mage to have a tier of lesser magicians (Proximi and Sorcerers) with the focus set there rather than the reality-warping baby Exarchs that are actual mages. Mages get their mage on just like they usually do.

In essence, a magician is one who has learned fragments of Supernal Truth but is not a Mage, they do not exist 'outside the Matrix'. As such, the magic they can use is defined as a strict list of Contract-like powers granted by the Mysteries they have learned, and because this is about Truth, every Mystery they have must be rooted in something that by definition is something they believe is true. Praxis here is just 'all the mystic secret things you know are True'. This can obviously vary by characters' Mystery sets, and you obviously can't learn something that you can't justify fitting into your Praxis worldview.

Also, notably, the chain of causation here is precisely the opposite of oMage. In oMage, you cast magic by believing in a paradigm and that gives you power. In our Magician hack, belief is utterly, utterly irrelevant. You cast magic by knowing a tiny fragment of the Truth, and because it's the Truth you know it with more certainty than you know things like "the sky is blue". Which inevitably warps your beliefs, because... well, for example, if you were a devout Christian and then find a Mystery which relates to demons and how every human mind is made up of demons and how to whisper to a few of them to affect the emotions, then your beliefs will warp to adjust to your sudden and incontestable knowledge that self-awareness is a demon. Your praxis is basically therefore how you handle your knowledge of fragments of Truth and build them into a framework that stops you going utterly insane, rather than just the notably eccentric that most magicians default to.

(You get mana by performing oblations to Mysteries you're initiated into, Unknown Armies "charge" style. Which just adds to the fact that magicians are weird by Sleeper standards.)
 
So, some of the Convo we had.

First, here is Omicron's Read-Only character sheet.

The Laurent Mage

Let's see. First Change to make is make it Acanthus-ish. Because we'll be going slightly loose with things.

Now, choose either Resolve or Composure to get one extra point. To clarify here, this represents your magical awakening, or at least the legacy of 'I have magical powers.' And so try to think what would most be in-line with that.

Which aspect of her willpower and ability to endure the non-physical was bolstered by the FACT of magic.*

*) She won't be meeting big-time players for a while, but I'm thinking she'll instinctually have a feeling/opinion leaning towards that Silver Ladder/Dresden-esque 'Imperium is the right of Mankind' thing, where she views magic as an amazing, wondrous thing.

That sounds fitting, yeah.

I'm inclined towards Resolve because I think of her as being a very strong, driven person who never back downs, but...

Actually no, Composure. She used to be that kind of person. But the sickness wore her down. Now she's lost part of that inner strength, that drive. But she can still pretend. She can still put up a wall, a facade against the world even if it eats her up inside.

There is also a kind of numbness to it. Composure because the slings and arrows of the world numb more than they hurt.

So then we got to talking about Rotes and I decided that, what the hell, I'd make up entirely new Rotes because that's not cheating or anything.

Rote #1: "We are all Connected"

Pool: Science+Intelligence+Fate 1

Effect: She places a hand over her heart briefly, and then pictures that she is living, that all things living and dead have a fate, have connections and ties to each other, and through this she can see the sympathetic connection and ties of fate itself between people, their fates and current connections and so on and so forth.

Rote #2: The Gravity of a Moment

Stamina+Athletics+Fate.

Effect: She was panting slightly when she learned she had cancer. She'd not even been running, and yet the knowledge that she was dying made her feel for a moment as if she was running. She can use this very moment to see the eddies of Fate itself, the knowledge that in a single moment, a phrase can divine the truth of a matter. This Rote, notably, involves a heightened breathing pattern, which *can* thus be noticed by some people. Cause Mages look like weirdos to normies.

Rote #3: Body Clock

Composure+Medicine+Time

Effect: This spell allows a mage to accurately assess all of the temporal components occurring in her immediate presence, giving her an opportunity to act at exactly the proper time to have the maximum effect. If she wants to throw a punch, she knows how and where to strike with the greatest possible (mundane) precision and force. Or if she wants to convince someone of something, she knows the most opportune instant in which to speak. Each success grants the mage a single extra die in the next roll that has to -- or is chosen to -- be made. This does not include spellcasting rolls. If the next roll is for a spell (perhaps the mage needs to quickly cast a countermagic), the character loses the benefit.

This rote specifically involves her stopping for a moment and holding her breath in, the better to get a feel not only for herself, but for her internal time, to tune it in with that of the rest of the universe, and thus it relies on her Composure and Medicine.

*****
What do you think of these? Am I going in the right direction?

Omicron likes it!

"You're panting, are you having a panic attack?!"
"I CAN SEE THE OUTLINES OF FATE"
"...you're having a panic attack."

So then I had an idea and started to think about Paradigms, and also had a proposal...

...I'm laughing so hard right now.

Also, if you wanted to do a random concept I had once, I had the idea of a type of Mage that has three primary Arcana...and two inferior.

The idea being that they're *highly* focused, sorta.

Time, Fate, Life

Inferior: Probably Death, because it's thematic, definitely NOT Mind, because she has enough Science to *know* that Life and Mind are basically the same thing. Or "know" it.

So if we went with that, she'd not be so good with Ghosts, Spirits would confuse her...and Vampires might sorta scare her.

I had this idea for a first meeting with a vampire where she does her whole 'sense life' trick...

And he's standing right in front of her. And she doesn't sense life, and it's like 'holy shit what the fuck'.

To be continued later because I didn't want this post to be too long!
 
well, just like syndicate PU lets you extract PE from business ventures, chorister prime lets you extract Quint from the faith/worship of belivers.

that's probably why choristers have the seat of prime in the first place.

which means that certain skeevy televangelist types are probably working for the syndicate, using the "competetion" paradigm to cut off chroister access to large numbers of fathful who would otherwise be probiding quint.
A scam that involves teleevangelists trying to get you to send in donations via suspiciously cult like activities vs a cult that involves trying to get you to perform worship via suspiciously scam like activities?
 
... sooo does the total lack of response to my Rote mean that it's balanced, or that it's just too boring to comment on?

And while I'm asking Mage questions, there's a thing that apparently doesn't work but I don't quite understand why.

Namely, why can't you use the Digital Web as a manufactory?

You can move people bodily in and and out with Corr or DSci - naturally, since it's just another subdimension to the Technodigm. And the Digital Web just makes making things so much easier - even before you get to the whole "you can use Forces for everything and you have an extra dot to play with," purely at the mundane level you can just instantiate all sorts of expensive materials on the fly. I mean, sure, you'll end up paying out a few hundred quint to do it that way - but in return, you need much less manpower and much less skill, so that certain designs that were "lost to the Anomaly" could be recreated by a Master of Forces. And then you just waltz on out with DSci and your fancy new ship/Device/whatever.

... this can't work or a) the VAs would have a much larger power base than they do (put in quint, take out hypertech that the Technocracy would otherwise have a monopoly on due to infrastructure) and b) the Technocracy itself would be spamming it everywhere, borderline Reality Deviance or no - it's just too useful and they're already on the back foot after the Anomaly.

Sooo what'm I missing?
 
That would depend heavily on which fansplat it is.

Princess. Specifically, I'd like to incorporate some of the Road of Dawn expansion.

I was playing in a game when said expansion was coming out, and found it really meshed with how I saw my character, so I was able to convince the GM to allow my character's story be about rediscovering one of the lost Invocations.

Then the GM burned out and I've been left hanging.
 
Namely, why can't you use the Digital Web as a manufactory?

You can move people bodily in and and out with Corr or DSci - naturally, since it's just another subdimension to the Technodigm. And the Digital Web just makes making things so much easier - even before you get to the whole "you can use Forces for everything and you have an extra dot to play with," purely at the mundane level you can just instantiate all sorts of expensive materials on the fly. I mean, sure, you'll end up paying out a few hundred quint to do it that way - but in return, you need much less manpower and much less skill, so that certain designs that were "lost to the Anomaly" could be recreated by a Master of Forces. And then you just waltz on out with DSci and your fancy new ship/Device/whatever.

... this can't work or a) the VAs would have a much larger power base than they do (put in quint, take out hypertech that the Technocracy would otherwise have a monopoly on due to infrastructure) and b) the Technocracy itself would be spamming it everywhere, borderline Reality Deviance or no - it's just too useful and they're already on the back foot after the Anomaly.

Sooo what'm I missing?
The reason you can "use Forces as Matter or Life" in the Web is that most things there are Forces, and making energy objects/energy beings is natural to the Web's inherent paradigm. If something is a Matter or Life pattern there (like if transferred by holistic immersion), that rule doesn't actually apply.

Conversely, if you make something in the Web with Forces, it is fundamentally made of forces. So if you use a pure Correspondence rote to pull it into realspace... then you have an energy construct in realspace, which is precisely as unstable and Vulgar as if you just made one in realspace. Possibly moreso - if you use the 'bonus' dot to of Forces create a digital object, that effectively means you're making it in a way that's dependent on the Web's inherent paradigm.

You can turn the energy object into a material object, but that requires actually transmuting it into Matter/Life/whatever. And that's... basically exactly the same as if you just wrote up a specification for it and then created the object (via, say, 3D printing one). Same Spheres to transmute, except you're adding in Forces and Correspondence on top of it.

(Also note that use of pure Correspondence to move things in and out of the Digital Web is a Panopticon houserule; the usual rote is a Life 4/Corr 2/Forces 2 deal for moving people, and presumably an equivalent for materials. It's a reasonable houserule, but the canonical way is basically equivalent to destructive uploads/3D-printing from an electronic template.)
 
What is the current state of princess, anyway? i remember a bunch of rants by ES over how some of the people doing that were actually in fundamentally irreconcilable design spaces.

A scam that involves teleevangelists trying to get you to send in donations via suspiciously cult like activities vs a cult that involves trying to get you to perform worship via suspiciously scam like activities?

Hey now, those things are TOTALLY DIFFERENT. Unless you have arete 6.
 
Princess. Specifically, I'd like to incorporate some of the Road of Dawn expansion.

I was playing in a game when said expansion was coming out, and found it really meshed with how I saw my character, so I was able to convince the GM to allow my character's story be about rediscovering one of the lost Invocations.

Then the GM burned out and I've been left hanging.
Not it.
I would rather run some Infinite Macabre.
(Seriously, I can't get Science Fantasy WoD out of my head.)
 
What is the current state of princess, anyway?
Currently it is split into the Dream and Vocation versions, with both being theoretically complete.
It has one supplement called Road of Dawn, which details a what-if where the Antagonist Factions survived in their un-Fallen state.
The two main books are still getting content added to them or edited every now and then, depending on what's happening on the main Princess thread on RPG.net.
The last time I looked they were talking about adding content to the Sample City(Detroit) and whether or not the Malleus Maleficarum would view Princesses as Witches.
 
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Hm...
I might just have to start an Infinite Macabre Quest. It just will not leave me alone.
Of course, Mage is also trying to make my life difficult and wanting it's own Quest.
Sometimes, there is just not enough time in the day. Damn you Space Mages! Give me a ring that lets me be in multiple places / be multiple of myself at once!

Same. It's a design space I wish OP would take more interest in. I wanna play furry deathmachines in spaaaaace.
Yeah, the issue is that IM doesn't really play well with Demon, or the concept of the God Machine from GMC in general. : /
 
Can you expand on this? I don't see the issue. Sure the GM isn't mentioned but it should slot right in. We know from Demon Storyteller's Guide that the machine isn't earth bound.
This is, obviously, my own personal opinion. As such YMMV.

The primary issue comes mainly from the primary decision that hast to be made about any individual IM game. "Does the 'veil' of secrecy surrounding the supernatural still exist?"

If the answer to that question is Yes, well then the God Machine and Demons fit in just as much as they fit in with WoD in general.

However, if the supernatural in your world is exposed, so is the very presence of the God Machine. Remember, a central conceit of GMC is that the God Machine actively covers up supernatural occurrences that might attract to much attention for fear of itself becoming exposed as a result. The idea that the God Machine can actively hide, and that Demons aren't just going to expose it when literally every other supernatural is on display by exposing themselves and dragging the gears and workings of the God Machine into the light, just breaks my Suspension of Disbelief. If Onyx hadn't been quite so insane with the God Machine (IE: the fact that it's got Infrastructure and Machinery basically EVERYWHERE, with most of the obvious stuff hidden behind what amounts to "Wards of You Cant See Me!") then it could have worked.

But as is? How does the God Machine fit into IM? As a sort of " 'evil' Culture Mind", it can definitely work. In the Storyteller Guide, we see a whole city that the GM has basically regressed out of normal reality, slowly pulling it out of the world and into its own little pocket dimension. To quote a relevant passage, " They do not see it for what it is, nor can they see past the veil hiding the gears or agents of the God-Machine. Instead, they have a sense of it, an intrinsic knowledge that Mechopolis is a living city and they are all pieces and cogs within the greater whole. People live their lives knowing their god has a plan for them, and they serve it without fail. They willingly go each day to tend and maintain Infrastructure, build new machines, and submit to experimentation — all in the name of their glorious god."

But, in order for the GM to be Evil Culture Mind, it can't be the GM as we know it. It can't be capable of just traveling across all of time at a whim, it can't have it's gears and infrastructure everywhere, it cannot be the 'Real' God Machine. Because if it has these powers, then why hasn't it used them to conquer the whole of existence? Unless, that isn't in its nature, but as we've seen in GMC and Demon, all that the GM seems to care about is growing in power. It doesn't care about humans, or vampires, or even whole cities, unless they can serve a purpose. When faced with a Meteor that will strike the earth, it doesn't thing, "omg, all those humans are going to die!" it thinks, "Unacceptable. This strike will destroy 90% of my infrastructure on this planet."

And so, we come to the main 'thing' of it. The reason WHY the God Machine and Demons don't "fit" Infinite Macabre is, "This product is written with the second assumption in mind. We want the monsters out in the open because it creates more fantastical conditions. Instead of having to worry about bizarre-faced aliens wandering the market bazaar or space-dock, we get to have pale bloodsuckers, porcelain Prometheans, and the truly bizarre Lost rubbing elbows with humanity. In this mode, the monsters become the aliens so frequently seen in the various iterations of space opera." And you want to know what isn't fun? Spy Games going on out in the open. Which is what Demon is all about. As such, they just do not fit because I cannot reconcile them with the very theme of, "supernatural exposed" that is a major conceit of IM.

I don't play / run Infinite Macabre to hide supernaturals. I do so to explore things that just can't / aren't explored in basic WoD, which includes a fully exposed supernatural world.
 
And so, we come to the main 'thing' of it. The reason WHY the God Machine and Demons don't "fit" Infinite Macabre is, "This product is written with the second assumption in mind. We want the monsters out in the open because it creates more fantastical conditions. Instead of having to worry about bizarre-faced aliens wandering the market bazaar or space-dock, we get to have pale bloodsuckers, porcelain Prometheans, and the truly bizarre Lost rubbing elbows with humanity. In this mode, the monsters become the aliens so frequently seen in the various iterations of space opera." And you want to know what isn't fun? Spy Games going on out in the open. Which is what Demon is all about. As such, they just do not fit because I cannot reconcile them with the very theme of, "supernatural exposed" that is a major conceit of IM.

You know what's a spy game where the spies are hiding in plain sight and people know they exist?

Still a spy game. :V

People should know the God-Machine exists. People should know that whatever space empire runs this sector does so with the tacit approval of the God-Machine, which has declared that Thou Shalt Not Fuck Around With It In Its Historic Light-Cone Or Else. People should know that the God-Machine has autonomous synthetic lifeforms which serve it, in the form of Angels. And people should know that Daemons are rogue automata built by the God-Machine. They should know, they should be watching, they should understand. And Daemons should still be able to slip through the cracks and play their game, because simply the knowledge that spies exist doesn't give you the tools to instantly vanish them.
 
(Also note that use of pure Correspondence to move things in and out of the Digital Web is a Panopticon houserule; the usual rote is a Life 4/Corr 2/Forces 2 deal for moving people, and presumably an equivalent for materials. It's a reasonable houserule, but the canonical way is basically equivalent to destructive uploads/3D-printing from an electronic template.)

I didn't think we ever used pure Corr to move in and out of the Web. I thought every time we had someone physically enter the Web, they were using Spirit in some way (either Spirit + Forces or Spirit + Corr).
 
Con Man, Professional Gambler, Fake Psychic.
There are plenty of options for things that you WERE doing, that now you can ACTUALLY do.

A Professional Gambler, for example, is a great one for a Time Fate mage. Just so long as you remember to actually loose on occasion.

One of my nMage characters is an Arrow Acanthus who lives full time in a suite at the Bellagio. All his bills are paid with casino winnings and manager comps. There are a few reasons he hasn't been kicked out. One, none of his play habits look anything like counting cards or similar tricks.
Two, he takes a lot of his winnings from other players, and not just the house. Three, being a 2e style acanthus, he has a detailed yet aggressively randomized winnings/losings rate that is only normalized on about a six month scale. And four, he goes out of his way to be pleasant to the staff, so no one wants to kick him out.
 
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