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White Wolf's World of Darkness

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It's hilarious, the way I forget Geist exists.

I was thinking through this character who has a lot of ghost-based stuff, and I was working it out, and then I briefly thought, "What about Geist?"

My second thought was: "What about Geist?" and then moving on to more interesting topics.
 
So I'm getting into a Beast: The Primordial game and as of yet it isn't that bad. We've only just started designing our characters but so far I like the powers that are available and types of monsters aren't too bad. I just wish it involved more body horror coupled with elements of change as you grow in power maybe permanently taking on aspects of your monster which further divorces you from the world or something like that. Also cutting out the relations to the splats would be nice.
 
The Laurent said:
My second thought was: "What about Geist?" and then moving on to more interesting topics.
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Yeah, Geist like Wraith, while interesting and bringing in some good stuff for the rest of the WoD, doesn't really feel like it 'Fits'. It's a game about second chances, but we already have that kind of thing in multiple other lines. As well, it's power scaling in it's powers is all over the god damn place, with a relatively basic Sin-Eater being able to cast 100% convincing illusions for miles around themselves. As well, they don't have anything even remotely like a 'drawback' iirc. Vampires have their morality stat capping out interacts, plus sunlight, and fire. Werewolves have the rage and need to balance being a Spirit Predator with a Human. Mages have Phenomenal Cosmic Power, that harms the minds of witnesses and can potentially summon anti-reality demons to eat us all. Prometheans have being a Promethean. Changelings have the fact that Loyalists and Fae might be coming to get them at any time, the fact that no matter how close they get to other humans that they'll still be utterly different, and a just plain lack of grip on sanity. Sin-Eaters have... the fact that they're possessed by a Uber Ghost that gives them Uber Ghost Powers....?

Malkavian said:
So I'm getting into a Beast: The Primordial game and as of yet it isn't that bad. We've only just started designing our characters but so far I like the powers that are available and types of monsters aren't too bad. I just wish it involved more body horror coupled with elements of change as you grow in power maybe permanently taking on aspects of your monster which further divorces you from the world or something like that. Also cutting out the relations to the splats would be nice.
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We don't care Malkavian. You're a giant hive consciousness of insanity anyway, it's not like Beast can drive you any MORE insane then you already are.

PS: That was a joke. :p
 
AshenFox said:
Sin-Eaters have... the fact that they're possessed by a Uber Ghost that gives them Uber Ghost Powers....?
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Eh, if they die they take permanent synergy damage, and if that drops too low, then the Geist (which more often then not is highly inhuman in its thinking, and very goal focused) will take control of the sin-eater's body. even before you hit bottom, having low synergy interferes with polite communication with, and use of, a Geist's abilities, not to mention the horrible nightmares (which can either be normal nightmares drawn from the Geist's past, or actual things the sin-eater did while under the Geist's control) that can plague them as synergy drops lower.

the real problem is a lack of a driven antagonist to push them to go out and use their powers, instead of just sitting around safely and never getting into a situation where you could lose synergy.


I'd love to see some more Geist, but with only a single book in it's line, with said book having a number of problems that were never addressed (due to not getting more books), no one is interested in seeing more of it... which just continues the cycle of it being too unpopular to bother fixing.
 
Broken25 said:
A flaw that activates when you die.... isn't really a great problem. I mean, all splats have the dying flaw, and usually with worse penalties.

(As in, the penalty is that now you are dead)
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Geist is all about second chances, and being an avatar of something similar to a grimm reaper. dying isn't an issue for this kind of a being, but otherwise your a squishy wizard without ultimate super powers that let you survive being a squishy wizard.

besides, there are more ways to lose synergy than dying, dying is just the only way to permanently lose points to your morality trait. as in, if you die, you lose 2 points and never get them back, until you're either insane, or being used as a meat-puppet by a Geist.
 
I mean, don't get me wrong. I like the idea of ghosts and ghost-powers and ghost adventures.

I mean, the build that's currently winning in a Quest I'm running involves 'Maximum possible Changeling ghost-shenanigans' and 'Lord Sage--Ghosts' to pick up a Ghost Familiar, even though to admit, Changelings can do a lot less than, say, a Death Mage could.

Then again, that's Mages, so you could say that about anything. :V
 
Xyzarach said:
Eh, if they die they take permanent synergy damage, and if that drops too low, then the Geist (which more often then not is highly inhuman in its thinking, and very goal focused) will take control of the sin-eater's body. even before you hit bottom, having low synergy interferes with polite communication with, and use of, a Geist's abilities, not to mention the horrible nightmares (which can either be normal nightmares drawn from the Geist's past, or actual things the sin-eater did while under the Geist's control) that can plague them as synergy drops lower.

the real problem is a lack of a driven antagonist to push them to go out and use their powers, instead of just sitting around safely and never getting into a situation where you could lose synergy.


I'd love to see some more Geist, but with only a single book in it's line, with said book having a number of problems that were never addressed (due to not getting more books), no one is interested in seeing more of it... which just continues the cycle of it being too unpopular to bother fixing.
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Essentially, Geist would have been better as a Blue Book, or series of Blue Books, like the Underworld book was and like Hunter probably should have been. The issue is that everything that you want out of Geist, can be accomplished via already existing stuff in WoD. The most compelling thing I ever saw out of Geist, was a Sin-Eater who was running around playing poker for Lifespan. But not for himself, but for some random girl he saw almost die. Who is now walking around at the eye of a hurricane of bad luck, because apparently bad things happen to everyone around you if you outlive your 'timeline'.
 
AshenFox said:
Essentially, Geist would have been better as a Blue Book, or series of Blue Books, like the Underworld book was and like Hunter probably should have been. The issue is that everything that you want out of Geist, can be accomplished via already existing stuff in WoD. The most compelling thing I ever saw out of Geist, was a Sin-Eater who was running around playing poker for Lifespan. But not for himself, but for some random girl he saw almost die. Who is now walking around at the eye of a hurricane of bad luck, because apparently bad things happen to everyone around you if you outlive your 'timeline'.
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Maybe I should check out the Underworld book then. Is it good?
 
Ridiculously Average Guy said:
So, closer to the Zanpaktou from Bleach then?
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closer, but rather than then getting a sword that's a representation of your own soul, an old ghost that's become less human and something more, by becoming symbolic of a form of death itself, makes a deal with you on death's door, bringing you back in exchange for bringing it back with you.

from there, you can use powers symbolic of your own death, manifested through the lens of the Geist's power. so, someone who died in a fire will be able to throw fireballs, while someone who died to an animal attack (or a werewolf attack) will be able to command beasts.

all the while, you have a reaper hanging over your shoulder, and if your relationship gets bad enough it'll try to wear you like a meatsuit.
 
Xyzarach said:
closer, but rather than then getting a sword that's a representation of your own soul, an old ghost that's become less human and something more, by becoming symbolic of a form of death itself, makes a deal with you on death's door, bringing you back in exchange for bringing it back with you.

from there, you can use powers symbolic of your own death, manifested through the lens of the Geist's power. so, someone who died in a fire will be able to throw fireballs, while someone who died to an animal attack (or a werewolf attack) will be able to command beasts.

all the while, you have a reaper hanging over your shoulder, and if your relationship gets bad enough it'll try to wear you like a meatsuit.
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Obvious antagonists: Some sort of mortality police that think this 'second chances' thing sucks.

The dead themselves. Let the dead bury their own dead. A Sin-Eater existence in the world is a stain upon the world, a strain on what it is, on mortality itself, and the longer they are around, the more they affect the world, the more the dead rise, the more ghosts come out, something something 'thrown the natural order out of balance.'

But have their Geists be hungry/demanding, so if they curl up into a ball and refuse to use their powers, it'll start screwing them over. So they have to use their powers...but not too much, or the dead start walking the earth, cats and dogs, etc, etc.
 
There's also the classic "eat more of my kind to grow more powerful/advance". Maybe if a Gheist collects enough aspects he, I dunno, get a chance of reincarnation or can build themselves a new body.

So you pin the Sin-Eaters against each other.
 
The Laurent said:
Maybe I should check out the Underworld book then. Is it good?
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If you're going to do Ghost and Underworld stuff, it's a Must Have.
It has a general topography of the Underworld in it (in so much as what amounts to maze collection of tunnels, caves, crypts, can have it such a thing), more information on what and how ghost 'live' out their deaths, and a whole lot more, including how to GET to the underworld if you're something other then a Geist or Mage. Also, it's one of the few books that literally goes, "Mages think they know shit, but they don't know dick." Which, as a player of humble mages, is always something nice to hear. :p

Ridiculously Average Guy said:
...Does WoD have a time travel book?

Because that would be something pretty fun to play.
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Nope. The only beings in all of WoD who can fuck with time are Mages (who can only do so to their own personal timeline until they become an archmaster), the Gentry (who can, theoretically, live in places of Arcadia who's causality run backwards, because fuck you it's Arcadia), maybe Time Spirits (and that's a BIG maybe), and the God Machine (because fuck you, it's the God Machine). However, theoretically it's possible to do Time Travel stuff in a WoD game. In fact, one of the examples I used for my recent Hunter Quest to describe TFV is Project Backstep, which was the name of a government run Time Travel program in the old late 90s / early 2000s TV show Seven Days (the titular catch being that they could only travel back in time seven days to prevent whatever they wanted to prevent).

PS: Stipulation. oWoD does, in fact, allow Time Travel. There's an entire Vampire Clan who's power is Time Traveling after all. Of course, the Technocracy is likely to get mighty pissy if you start messing with causality an trying to change history.
 
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Ridiculously Average Guy said:
There's also the classic "eat more of my kind to grow more powerful/advance". Maybe if a Gheist collects enough aspects he, I dunno, get a chance of reincarnation or can build themselves a new body.

So you pin the Sin-Eaters against each other.
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Hm... there is a mechanic in place where you can eat ghosts to get power points.it's supposed to cause issues with synergy, because you're perma-killing ghosts in the worst possible way (which your Geist doesn't take kindly too), and there isn't anything on what happens when you do this to another sin-eater/Geist... But, I think this is a very interesting idea, and since the morality system needs reworking anyway, it could be made to work.

although, eating other aspects of death probably won't bring a Geist closer to being human in any way. more likely it's to become a proper god of death, or some similar type of ascension to a higher plane. that leaves the problem of what happens to the sin-eater afterward... maybe they become a Geist themselves, or retain their bond, but with the effects reversed (being the shoulder reaper for the death god)?
 
AshenFox said:
If you're going to do Ghost and Underworld stuff, it's a Must Have.
It has a general topography of the Underworld in it (in so much as what amounts to maze collection of tunnels, caves, crypts, can have it such a thing), more information on what and how ghost 'live' out their deaths, and a whole lot more, including how to GET to the underworld if you're something other then a Geist or Mage. Also, it's one of the few books that literally goes, "Mages think they know shit, but they don't know dick." Which, as a player of humble mages, is always something nice to hear. :p


Nope. The only beings in all of WoD who can fuck with time are Mages (who can only do so to their own personal timeline until they become an archmaster), the Gentry (who can, theoretically, live in places of Arcadia who's causality run backwards, because fuck you it's Arcadia), maybe Time Spirits (and that's a BIG maybe), and the God Machine (because fuck you, it's the God Machine). However, theoretically it's possible to do Time Travel stuff in a WoD game. In fact, one of the examples I used for my recent Hunter Quest to describe TFV is Project Backstep, which was the name of a government run Time Travel program in the old late 90s / early 2000s TV show Seven Days (the titular catch being that they could only travel back in time seven days to prevent whatever they wanted to prevent).
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Though, in one of the settings I'm doing, the Underworld is about to be totally wrenched away, and a whole new cosmology supplanting it partially, which will be fun. Someone who knows the old style of ghosts and even has one as a familiar, dealing with similarities and differences between them, etc, etc...oh, by the way, I probably need to vote in your Hunter Quest?
 
Xyzarach said:
although, eating other aspects of death probably won't bring a Geist closer to being human in any way. more likely it's to become a proper god of death, or some similar type of ascension to a higher plane. that leaves the problem of what happens to the sin-eater afterward... maybe they become a Geist themselves, or retain their bond, but with the effects reversed (being the shoulder reaper for the death god)?
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Well there could be two options. Take the aspects and grow closer to ascending, or leave the aspects and take the left over humanity of the Geist.
 
Ridiculously Average Guy said:
So you pin the Sin-Eaters against each other.
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From what I remember of them, Sin Eaters already are against each other based on.....well, a fair bit of things ranging from incompatible hodgepodged magic "traditions" they put together to conflicts between how they should handle ghosts and the people related to them(both in the sense of family and in the sense "This person was apart of the ghost's life and/or death), and probably a couple more things I can't remember off the top of my head.

I don't really think they need more reasons to get in each other's way.
 
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