- Location
- Winchester
Yeah I could have guessed that. But that part of my brain demanded ironclad clarification, reasonable suppositions be damned!
Thank you, and keep up the good GM work.
Thank you, and keep up the good GM work.
Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism
- Thread starter torroar
- Start date
- Mature
-
- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy intrigue happens male protagonist ck2 quest belief stronk count of cannons drunken wisdom foes in the shadows graf of guns (guns) if you have a question check the front page first it begins... mountain vietnam ogres paranoia rising unseen enemies everywhere use the search function before asking waifu wars wake the bull
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I would expect that there are plenty of gunsmiths who don't live at the main physical campus of the Ostland engineers in the capital, but that are still dues-paying and reputable members of the institution.
If only because there's got to be some cross-pollination from the way other trades work, where guilds are important but where you really don't want to concentrate the craftsmen excessively because then they're competing with each other too much for business, so you'll have individual masters spreading out across the country widely.
Dwarven guilds are a little different because effectively all dwarves live in a concentrated bunker-city and it's common for all craftsmen of a specific type to be members of one or of a handful of closely interrelated families.
If gunsmithing is concentrated at garrisons, there may be some friction from that, which is not me saying "this is wrong" or "this is disaster" to be clear, just... potential minor social friction.
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Oh sure, you'll get that here and there. I mean, it's the Empire. Most of the time, it's a good thing to see a bit of that, because the Empire is several nation-states corralled into one bigger one. That's just sort of the culture they have, bits of competition and territorialism now and again.
See, its when minor social frictions are being deliberately and massively set by the wayside, that's when there's a really big problem going on. The sort of stuff that makes everyone go 'oh shit we're all in this together everyone run for the castle or the capital because the Chaos Lord/Warboss/Etc. is coming for us with his teeming hordes.'
MrRobot
In doubt there's always the Sun!
Basically it's a verry Warhammer thing to do because unlike the real world their world is actively hostile and you are expected to deal with forces of darkness in the wild that hide from the light of civilization. In Ostoland this mean the state have a vested intrest in keep their population Armed and fight ready as well as waging war against their own forest to truly claim that region.
In the end trough this merely being active in trying to solve the Empire's biggest limiter, the fact their internal territory is not secure.
In the end trough this merely being active in trying to solve the Empire's biggest limiter, the fact their internal territory is not secure.
Looking back at some old posts:
Wonder if border patrol up there in Schonfeld and Gauschdorf noted the ever increasing number of expatriates and immigrants coming down from Kislev as their Civil War essentially blew up- I'd imagined they won't stay long in the area as these two aren't built yet to hold an ever growing number of people trickling in over the months. They'd likely move to to the rest of our hubs- Wulfenburg now probably has a bigger influx of people within its Kislevite section than usual.
Hmm… With the standardisation of Ostland law, maybe it's high time for a provincial census?
Huh, Nuln beat us to it on a repeating crossbow design native to the Old World. Wonder how they solved the ammo storage inputs/ outputs in the stock and how they solved the not sacrificing fire power bit. Would be very intriguing getting those compared with the Druuchi crossbow design.
With the cyclers already invented, I think a possible Ostlander redesign on the crossbow would involve a Windlass or a crankshaft to help span the crossbow string into position to solve moving the highly tensioned string into place. Something like:
View: https://youtu.be/STUtUW36q-4?si=e8AL2WR_oX_uZqe8
Just move the gear positions, shape the stock so that cranking the wheel pulling a couple hundred pounds of armour piercing tension isn't going to be much of a hassle. With what looks like a gravity fed bolt feeder inspired from the Druuchi crossbow, the hypothetical early versions of this would likely be used to rain down mass volleys down the enemy far more than accurate shooting.
Wonder if border patrol up there in Schonfeld and Gauschdorf noted the ever increasing number of expatriates and immigrants coming down from Kislev as their Civil War essentially blew up- I'd imagined they won't stay long in the area as these two aren't built yet to hold an ever growing number of people trickling in over the months. They'd likely move to to the rest of our hubs- Wulfenburg now probably has a bigger influx of people within its Kislevite section than usual.
Hmm… With the standardisation of Ostland law, maybe it's high time for a provincial census?
Huh, Nuln beat us to it on a repeating crossbow design native to the Old World. Wonder how they solved the ammo storage inputs/ outputs in the stock and how they solved the not sacrificing fire power bit. Would be very intriguing getting those compared with the Druuchi crossbow design.
With the cyclers already invented, I think a possible Ostlander redesign on the crossbow would involve a Windlass or a crankshaft to help span the crossbow string into position to solve moving the highly tensioned string into place. Something like:
View: https://youtu.be/STUtUW36q-4?si=e8AL2WR_oX_uZqe8
Just move the gear positions, shape the stock so that cranking the wheel pulling a couple hundred pounds of armour piercing tension isn't going to be much of a hassle. With what looks like a gravity fed bolt feeder inspired from the Druuchi crossbow, the hypothetical early versions of this would likely be used to rain down mass volleys down the enemy far more than accurate shooting.
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MrRobot
In doubt there's always the Sun!
The problem about crossbows is that they are kinda expensive to make and maintain. To manny moving parts for a niche that is better serviced by a cannon.
The empire as a whole don't have a ranger tradition that would warrant an extremely expensive ranged elite unit.
The Dwarfs have but Im probably sure they already have repeating crossbows.
The empire as a whole don't have a ranger tradition that would warrant an extremely expensive ranged elite unit.
The Dwarfs have but Im probably sure they already have repeating crossbows.
- Location
- Africa
they have an existing tradition of empire huntsmen who just hunters that are tough and skilled enough to survive in the supremely dangerous forests of the Old World which are infested with threats most common of all being the beastmen who would have every natural advantage over the huntsmen
odds are the reason no ranger tradition every emerged it because of factors limiting resources at the time cause for last 13 hundred years the empire has been a losing streak , first was the ineffective rule of the Drakwald emperors then the black plague happened killing 70% of the empires total population then the Skaven wars , the collapse of the centralized government with the era of the 3 emperors then the vampire wars then the era emperors continues until less that 50 years ago with Magnus the Pius coming to power
for all we know there could have been an empire ranger tradition that died out during the black plague and no support was given to them cause every province preferred to pour funds towards fighting each other and occasionally the undead while practically ignoring the beastmen in the forests after all this is how and why the drakwald province was lost
though we can found an elite ranger tradition right now to be honest we have all the needed parts , between Bugmen's rangers getting antsy for some action, Lumpin's halfing rangers , the knights of taal and our good ties with the Enoir possibly loaning us form of there wood elf tier rangers we have access to the best possible instructors for founding an elite ranger Corp
MrRobot
In doubt there's always the Sun!
Sorry but I think we already learned the lessons about Dwarven help.
TLDR we might get some help to setup basic tradition if we go directly to the guild doing it out of guild it's a recipe for drama and In guild it will be some limitations on the education.
So yeah we can make a ranger unit, it wil not necessarily be "good".
Edit:
It's doesn't help that the Empire's good foresters are Ludites by religion so automatic crossbows are icky. And it's not like with the ulricians that the people out of the clergy can rationalize as boiling down the tenants to "dont be a bitch and using the gun is tolerable".
TLDR we might get some help to setup basic tradition if we go directly to the guild doing it out of guild it's a recipe for drama and In guild it will be some limitations on the education.
So yeah we can make a ranger unit, it wil not necessarily be "good".
Edit:
It's doesn't help that the Empire's good foresters are Ludites by religion so automatic crossbows are icky. And it's not like with the ulricians that the people out of the clergy can rationalize as boiling down the tenants to "dont be a bitch and using the gun is tolerable".
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- Location
- Africa
I am pretty sure there is no such thing a ranger's guild, as rangers are considered too maverick by greater dwarf society to formalize into a guild
typically rangers are dwarfs who don't fit in with normal dwaven society but don't want to leave and become imperial dwarfs nor have they done anything to warrant becoming slayers(ie getting cast out from society outright), so they get pushed to edge of dwarf hold's society hence they become rangers, so there won't be a guild of rangers to come bother us
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MrRobot
In doubt there's always the Sun!
It's not that simple. Rangers are not outcasts as you seem to think, they are scouts yes but are still very much part of the society, the secrets of their trade is as well keepth Oath as any guild secret. And Oaths and Grudges are a BIG deal to the dawi. Their main point of divergence with humanity even.
Hmm. Could we at least train them in skills that the dwarves don't consider secret, like basic tactics and trap setting.
and have them act as instructors during the training process to correct any deficiencies?
Honestly, if they've been rangers for hundreds of years, they should have a solid foundation, even if the races are different.
and have them act as instructors during the training process to correct any deficiencies?
Honestly, if they've been rangers for hundreds of years, they should have a solid foundation, even if the races are different.
DevilsAdvocate
Always follow the golden rule.
True, but it's not we don't already have really good human rangers, heck we have a knightly order of what are essentially religious Templar/Rangers. They might be better and are certainly a more available source of expertise than Dwarven Rangers.
While the dwarves tend to be better than humans in most things, I don't think most of those advantages carry over to being rangers. Sure, they have inhuman resilience and discipline alongside generations of information of secret passes and hidden stockpiles in the mountain areas surrounding their homes which let them do their job extremely well but that wouldn't necessarily translate to helping us do better.
If you wanted help developing a Ranger Guild/equivalent from a non-human ally, I would recommend going to the elves rather than the dwarves even if I would be unsure how much of their supernatural skill is something that can be taught they are certainly better than the dwarves at it. Plus, it might give the elves a bit more influence later on/help us stay in touch more.
Otherwise, I would say that supporting Taal and getting more rangers through him, even if it does by necessity remove the ability to have our rangers use metal/crossbows or give them other technological upgrades, is the best option. It isn't the best, but the job of rangers is less to have the firepower to take on small groups of nasties and more to tell the army where the nasties are, so I think it is an acceptable compromise.
TLDŔ-
Getting dwarven help is uncertain to help us and will certainly bring trouble. Wood elves are amazing rangers though not sure how mu h of that is magic/spirits. Taal has a lot of good rangers equivalents devoted to him, using that is probably the best choice even if we can't give them guns
While the dwarves tend to be better than humans in most things, I don't think most of those advantages carry over to being rangers. Sure, they have inhuman resilience and discipline alongside generations of information of secret passes and hidden stockpiles in the mountain areas surrounding their homes which let them do their job extremely well but that wouldn't necessarily translate to helping us do better.
If you wanted help developing a Ranger Guild/equivalent from a non-human ally, I would recommend going to the elves rather than the dwarves even if I would be unsure how much of their supernatural skill is something that can be taught they are certainly better than the dwarves at it. Plus, it might give the elves a bit more influence later on/help us stay in touch more.
Otherwise, I would say that supporting Taal and getting more rangers through him, even if it does by necessity remove the ability to have our rangers use metal/crossbows or give them other technological upgrades, is the best option. It isn't the best, but the job of rangers is less to have the firepower to take on small groups of nasties and more to tell the army where the nasties are, so I think it is an acceptable compromise.
TLDŔ-
Getting dwarven help is uncertain to help us and will certainly bring trouble. Wood elves are amazing rangers though not sure how mu h of that is magic/spirits. Taal has a lot of good rangers equivalents devoted to him, using that is probably the best choice even if we can't give them guns
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- Location
- Africa
No need to pigeon hole ourselves by relying on the luddit taalists , halfling make excellent rangers and game warden and Lumpin Coop and his band who are some of the greatest halfling rangers alive are in our employ and we can also reach out to the Enoir as well for those wood elf bushcraft skills while being able to give our rangers technology as well
The rangers might be the impetus to develop long rifles, utilizing trained bird bomber ravens as messenger birds for example
DevilsAdvocate
Always follow the golden rule.
True, the Halflings are a good source of training, and it is far more likely that most of what they know is transferable to our potential "Rangers of Ostland", unlike the elves whose skills are probably mostly non-applicable to most human rangers.
That said, I am pretty sure we already have messenger birds. Like, we are probably not training the specific bird bombers to also double as messenger birds but we have other birds that we train to carry messenger, right?
Again, for all that we look down on the Taalites not "keeping up with the times". I don't think we can make any technological trinket/weapon/tool that would help a Ranger more than the institutional experience that the Taalites currently provide.
The idea that everyone should become Luddites is patiently ridiculous of course, but I am not sure that that having metal armor matters for a Ranger whose job is to report the location of beastmen to the army. So giving up on Taal, the generational knowledge of those who follow the and the possibility of minor divine assistance does not seem to be worth it, in return for having our rangers use guns/crossbows and metal armor.
A possible exception might be the wingsuits. But I think that will have limited success in scouting the dense forests that our enemies keep hiding in, so it would probably be more of a separate thing for the army and to scout roads/carry messages.
- Location
- Africa
The rangers are not meant to warn us against beastmen war herds , the existing empire huntsmen can already do that well enough, the rangers are meant to take the fight to the beastmen and act as elite skirmishers , the rangers are meant to carry out operations in the deep forests, hunting down and killing scattered bands of beastmen before they ever get to join into a war herd , tracking beastmen migrations, pathfinding through the forests for our armies, setting up hidden caches in forests to support their long term operations and hidden outposts to operate out of in the deep forests (think the tree house outposts from dragon inquisition Jaws of Hakkon DLC)
Also the taalites institutional knowledge isn't much to look at compared to what the longer lived elves and halflings can offer , also we don't need to bend over backwards to accommodate the cult of taal to get them to support the rangers, Ulric is opposed to guns but that doesn't stop priests of Ulric from joining our armies who use all sorts of guns
Plus the rangers will be fighting the beastmen, the same beastmen who are the number one cause of dead taalites and desecrated temples of taal in the empire, if taal and his priests would spurn the rangers for refusing to confirm to their luddid ways despite fighting the beastmen who threaten them, then we don't want them nor need them and good riddance cause the amber wizards are better anyway
- Location
- Canada
So the Rangers are actually just guerrillas? That make sense.
Dammit, now I'm imagining dwarves that looked like Viet-Congs and other stereotypical guerrillas fighters.
MrRobot
In doubt there's always the Sun!
The ranger elite unit discussion revolve around using repeating corssbows, wich are expensive that's why Dwaves would be better as source of teaching, elves by and large use bows. Taalites are ludites. And while halflings make great prospect recruits and generally stealth they are as mechanically incline as a normal human.
If we are using bows for rangers the empire have a decent tradition of bowman and we could get some Asur instructor to get to the level of "sucking as less as Humanly possible at it".
Trough if we want a bow elite we have them in the form of ogre bowman.
If we are using bows for rangers the empire have a decent tradition of bowman and we could get some Asur instructor to get to the level of "sucking as less as Humanly possible at it".
Trough if we want a bow elite we have them in the form of ogre bowman.
DevilsAdvocate
Always follow the golden rule.
I just believe dismissing the Taalites for their backwards ways is a mistake, and that people following its teachings to the letter, for all their detriment in pitched combat, should be very well suited for stealthy scouts/guides whoes job is to roam the woods and bring back information to the army.
It shouldn't be the Rangers job to will isolated warbands, but rather the job of the Army that we set up to keep the provinces forest under control. At least, I believe so long as we don't give them tasks that would require technology/steel then having a devoted Taalite Ranger guild to help find the beast men should be all we need. (Besides more army, but we probably need to wait for that)
It shouldn't be the Rangers job to will isolated warbands, but rather the job of the Army that we set up to keep the provinces forest under control. At least, I believe so long as we don't give them tasks that would require technology/steel then having a devoted Taalite Ranger guild to help find the beast men should be all we need. (Besides more army, but we probably need to wait for that)
MrRobot
In doubt there's always the Sun!
It's not dismissing the Taalites for their ways is that they will not take repeating crossbows, hell they raised hackles for the seeding drill.
It's more like the real harcore taalites are the really good foresters and we can't really force them to commit heresy.
And if you say "but the crossbows are not necessary" again they are the basis for this whole argument to being with, we already have some scouts for the army role the discussion is to see what use we could have for a repeating crossbow.
Hmmm sort of in the form of supporting private organizations
to bring or encourage the formation of homegrown rangers or groups led by Taal's followers and priests into the system.
by creating a force that is directly controlled by the government and empowered to use any weapon at their disposal, whether it be gunpowder or multi-shot crossbows.
sort of a two-track strategy, using the Ta'al ranger tradition and territorial patrols and river patrols and special forces.
to bring or encourage the formation of homegrown rangers or groups led by Taal's followers and priests into the system.
by creating a force that is directly controlled by the government and empowered to use any weapon at their disposal, whether it be gunpowder or multi-shot crossbows.
sort of a two-track strategy, using the Ta'al ranger tradition and territorial patrols and river patrols and special forces.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Kinda wondering how different things would be if Fredrick had been a veteran of the GWAC like the rest of the Trident leaders. Let's say he gets roped in by a series of unfortunate events, Joseph keeps him on the edges out of reluctant "all hands on deck", canon happens, Fredrick's skill comes through and he manages to survive and not be too badly injured and so goes north with Magnus, fights and distinguishes himself a bunch and maybe befriends Stephen and Ortrud earlier, and maybe even has an early non-arranged romance with Natasha. And then he comes home to find his family dead, the Witch Hunters giving him Brain Wounder.
He'll likely would have met Urgdug earlier as he was serving his stint in the army way, way earlier than Freddy. Although that meeting wouldn't have last long before they'd split up before they'd (Joseph and Freddy) have gone to Kislev. If we're going with Urgdug's words, he wasn't with the Ostland expeditionary force going to Kislev.
Anyway, without Freddy weighing a bit on the scales for Jegow, that poor village would probably have been levelled at least one count higher than what we already have now.
As for Natasha getting romanced earlier? Bets on them meeting going real bad at first, but had to work together in battle to tagteam Daemons, since Freddy hasn't gotten a runefang yet, he'd have to facetank it more often than not. Nat would, over the course of the War against the Everchosen, pick up Freddy's habit of near suicidal runs and after
And maybe, just maybe he'd have make something of himself in the eyes of if not to his father, then to the rest of the Empire.
They'd bond over their inadequacies, irreverence to the gods- booze, well we know the rest by now.
I wonder if Natasha ever had enough of a resentment of her sister then, to just one day leave a letter saying she's going on a sabbatical with this insufferable man to help fix his Province after recieving word that his entire family was gone by a string of assassinations. Ah, the rumour mill's going to have a blast with this one.
You know what, never mind- it seemed Kattarin wouldn't have cared less if her sister eloped, gotta grind that centralised authority!
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- Location
- Texas
Sorry to to go picking through past posts for mistakes, but do you mean Alyssa at this part talking about the Druchi that took over the aqua-farms?
No worries at all! You are absolutely correct, this was meant to be Alyssa. They're the two major Sorceresses on the Ark, I sometimes get the names mixed up.