Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

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flotter said:
I admit it's a little strange to see people dive into all in like it's somehow the secret best ending.

It's entirely possible that the only thing we get from this is trauma, or that we find out that giving all of our best ships away will have serious consequences that we might not like, you know? It's called a sacrifice for a reason, please don't think of Freddy's health as something you can trade in for shinies.
:(
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The more ships we sacrifice and the harsher the keelhauling, the more appeasement/approval we get. Nothing secret about that. It also gives Maghda the most leverage with the cult.

And again, the greatships we give will not be lost to Ostland. They are being given to the cult to use. Maghda cares about Manann and his faithful and she will not leave the Ostland faithful defenseless.

Anything less than all in may be enough to satisfy enough of the cult that we get our trade functioning again, or maybe not. It's less likely to silence the zealots. Or at least appease enough of the masses and priests that those still grumbling are quickly dismissed. The best way to guarantee we get that much approval is to go all in.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Chaosbrain on Jan 26, 2021 at 11:28 AM, finished with 850 posts and 85 votes.
  • [X] Plan Not Quite ALL the Way
    [X] Plan: All In, As Usual
    -[x] Sacrifice Them To Manann: Set the things aflame, get some dockspace back, and offer a minor but appreciated appeasement to Manann. [Minor Appeasement/Maghda Approval]
    -[X] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
    --[X] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. (All 5) [Major Appeasement/Approval For Each Ship]
    -[X] Accept the Keelhauling: It will hurt. That's rather the point. The only thing to think about is how sever you want to be about it. This is less about appeasing the priests, and more about quieting the mob, the fury of the common flock....and some of the priests who are especially angry. Who wish punishment, regardless of the fact that very, very technically, you were legally in the right. (Choose Ship Choice From Below)
    --[X] Triton's Fury: A traveling temple-ship of Manann, practically the size of a Greatship, but its structure has been given far less over to battle than to making a mobile living space for its crew of Sea-Born. [Most Dangerous/Extreme Appeasement/Approval Gain]
    [X] Plan Not all the Great Ships
    -[x] Sacrifice Them To Manann: Set the things aflame, get some dockspace back, and offer a minor but appreciated appeasement to Manann. [Minor Appeasement/Maghda Approval]
    -[X] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
    --[X] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. (Write-In How Many If Any/Which Greatships) [Major Appeasement/Approval For Each Ship]
    ---[X] Frederick's Fist and Oskar's Omen
    -[X] Accept the Keelhauling: It will hurt. That's rather the point. The only thing to think about is how sever you want to be about it. This is less about appeasing the priests, and more about quieting the mob, the fury of the common flock....and some of the priests who are especially angry. Who wish punishment, regardless of the fact that very, very technically, you were legally in the right. (Choose Ship Choice From Below)
    --[X] Triton's Fury: A traveling temple-ship of Manann, practically the size of a Greatship, but its structure has been given far less over to battle than to making a mobile living space for its crew of Sea-Born. [Most Dangerous/Extreme Appeasement/Approval Gain]
    [X] Plan NUTS to Quest Masochism
    -[x] Sacrifice Them To Manann: Set the things aflame, get some dockspace back, and offer a minor but appreciated appeasement to Manann. [Minor Appeasement/Maghda Approval]
    -[X] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
    --[X] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. (Write-In How Many If Any/Which Greatships) [Major Appeasement/Approval For Each Ship]
    ---[X] 2 Greatships. Fist of Frederick and Natasha's Grace
    -[X] Accept the Keelhauling: It will hurt. That's rather the point. The only thing to think about is how sever you want to be about it. This is less about appeasing the priests, and more about quieting the mob, the fury of the common flock....and some of the priests who are especially angry. Who wish punishment, regardless of the fact that very, very technically, you were legally in the right. (Choose Ship Choice From Below)
    --[X] The Rambler: An average trading ship, regularly barnacled. [Somewhat Dangerous/Minor Appeasement/Approval Gain]
    [X] Freddy's Established Response To Performing Public Penances
    [X] Sacrifice Them To Manann: Set the things aflame, get some dockspace back, and offer a minor but appreciated appeasement to Manann. [Minor Appeasement/Maghda Approval]
    [X] Plan Two Proper
    -[x] Sacrifice Them To Manann: Set the things aflame, get some dockspace back, and offer a minor but appreciated appeasement to Manann. [Minor Appeasement/Maghda Approval]
    -[X] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
    --[X] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. (Write-In How Many If Any/Which Greatships) [Major Appeasement/Approval For Each Ship]
    ---[X] 2 Greatships. Fist of Frederick and Natasha's Grace
    -[X] Accept the Keelhauling: It will hurt. That's rather the point. The only thing to think about is how sever you want to be about it. This is less about appeasing the priests, and more about quieting the mob, the fury of the common flock....and some of the priests who are especially angry. Who wish punishment, regardless of the fact that very, very technically, you were legally in the right. (Choose Ship Choice From Below)
    --[X] Marvelous Maisel: An extremely large supply ship, apparently used to confer certain supplies to Sea-Born vessels out on the ocean such as medicines that cannot be sourced out on the ocean. Has not been cleaned at all. [More Dangerous/Major Appeasement/Approval Gain]
    ---[X] Volunteer to go twice. Get healed between bouts.
    ---[X] Don't wear the Light of Summer during the keelhauling.
    [X] Accept the Keelhauling: It will hurt. That's rather the point. The only thing to think about is how sever you want to be about it. This is less about appeasing the priests, and more about quieting the mob, the fury of the common flock....and some of the priests who are especially angry. Who wish punishment, regardless of the fact that very, very technically, you were legally in the right. (Choose Ship Choice From Below)
    -[X] Marvelous Maisel: An extremely large supply ship, apparently used to confer certain supplies to Sea-Born vessels out on the ocean such as medicines that cannot be sourced out on the ocean. Has not been cleaned at all. [More Dangerous/Major Appeasement/Approval Gain]
    [X] Plan Not Killing Ourselves
    -[x] Sacrifice Them To Manann: Set the things aflame, get some dockspace back, and offer a minor but appreciated appeasement to Manann. [Minor Appeasement/Maghda Approval]
    -[X] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
    --[X] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. (Write-In How Many If Any/Which Greatships) [Major Appeasement/Approval For Each Ship]
    ---[X] All the Greatships
    -[X] Accept the Keelhauling: It will hurt. That's rather the point. The only thing to think about is how sever you want to be about it. This is less about appeasing the priests, and more about quieting the mob, the fury of the common flock....and some of the priests who are especially angry. Who wish punishment, regardless of the fact that very, very technically, you were legally in the right. (Choose Ship Choice From Below)
    --[X] Five-Tined Hunter: A wolf ship of the Cult of Manann that sails regularly against corsairs, pirates, worshippers of Stromfels, Druchii, and so on. [Dangerous/Appeasement/Approval Gain]
    [X] Accept the Keelhauling: It will hurt. That's rather the point. The only thing to think about is how sever you want to be about it. This is less about appeasing the priests, and more about quieting the mob, the fury of the common flock....and some of the priests who are especially angry. Who wish punishment, regardless of the fact that very, very technically, you were legally in the right. (Choose Ship Choice From Below)
    -[X] Triton's Fury: A traveling temple-ship of Manann, practically the size of a Greatship, but its structure has been given far less over to battle than to making a mobile living space for its crew of Sea-Born. [Most Dangerous/Extreme Appeasement/Approval Gain]
    [x] Shark dive.
    [X] Refusal: Perhaps you can negotiate for other ships, other tasks? Repeated keelhaulings or something? (Write-In)
    [X] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
    -[X] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. - Fist of Frederick, Natasha's Grace
    [X] Plan All Ships, No Masochism
    -[x] Sacrifice Them To Manann: Set the things aflame, get some dockspace back, and offer a minor but appreciated appeasement to Manann. [Minor Appeasement/Maghda Approval]
    -[X] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
    --[X] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. (Write-In How Many If Any/Which Greatships) [Major Appeasement/Approval For Each Ship]
    ---[X] All the Greatships
    -[X] Accept the Keelhauling: It will hurt. That's rather the point. The only thing to think about is how sever you want to be about it. This is less about appeasing the priests, and more about quieting the mob, the fury of the common flock....and some of the priests who are especially angry. Who wish punishment, regardless of the fact that very, very technically, you were legally in the right. (Choose Ship Choice From Below)
    --[X] The Rambler: An average trading ship, regularly barnacled. [Somewhat Dangerous/Minor Appeasement/Approval Gain]
    [X] plan do it right the first time mk1B
    -[x] Sacrifice Them To Manann: Set the things aflame, get some dockspace back, and offer a minor but appreciated appeasement to Manann. [Minor Appeasement/Maghda Approval]
    -[X] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
    --[X] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. (Write-In How Many If Any/Which Greatships) [Major Appeasement/Approval For Each Ship]
    --[X] 'Fist of Frederick, Natasha's Grace, and Oskar's Omen
    -[X] Accept the Keelhauling: It will hurt. That's rather the point. The only thing to think about is how sever you want to be about it. This is less about appeasing the priests, and more about quieting the mob, the fury of the common flock....and some of the priests who are especially angry. Who wish punishment, regardless of the fact that very, very technically, you were legally in the right. (Choose Ship Choice From Below)
    --[X] Five-Tined Hunter: A wolf ship of the Cult of Manann that sails regularly against corsairs, pirates, worshippers of Stromfels, Druchii, and so on. [Dangerous/Appeasement/Approval Gain]
    [X] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
    -[X] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. (Write-In How Many If Any/Which Greatships) [Major Appeasement/Approval For Each Ship]
    -[X] Fist of Frederick
    -[X] Natasha's Grace
    -[X] Oskar's Omen
    [X] Accept the Keelhauling: It will hurt. That's rather the point. The only thing to think about is how sever you want to be about it. This is less about appeasing the priests, and more about quieting the mob, the fury of the common flock....and some of the priests who are especially angry. Who wish punishment, regardless of the fact that very, very technically, you were legally in the right. (Choose Ship Choice From Below)
    -[X] Five-Tined Hunter: A wolf ship of the Cult of Manann that sails regularly against corsairs, pirates, worshippers of Stromfels, Druchii, and so on. [Dangerous/Appeasement/Approval Gain]
    [X] Something Else: (Write-In)-gave them to the cult of Manaan to be used as they say fit.
    [X]Plan No crippling our defence.
    [x] we got this
    -[x] Sacrifice Them To Manann: Set the things aflame, get some dockspace back, and offer a minor but appreciated appeasement to Manann. [Minor Appeasement/Maghda Approval]
    -[x] The Greatships of Ostland
    --[x] Give Them 2
    -[x] Accept the Keelhauling
    --[x] The Rambler
    [X] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
    -[X] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. (Write-In How Many If Any/Which Greatships) [Major Appeasement/Approval For Each Ship]
    -[X] 'Fist of Frederick, Natasha's Grace, and Oskar's Omen
    [X] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
    -[X] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. (Write-In How Many If Any/Which Greatships) [Major Appeasement/Approval For Each Ship]
    --[X] 2, The two named after Fred and Natasha because having a ship named after you is all about pride.
    [X] Plan Not all the Great Ships
    - [X] Sacrifice Them To Manann: Set the things aflame, get some dockspace back, and offer a minor but appreciated appeasement to Manann. [Minor Appeasement/Maghda Approval]
    [X] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
    -[X] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. (Write-In How Many If Any/Which Greatships) [Major Appeasement/Approval For Each Ship]
    --[X] 3, including Oskar's Omen
    [X] Freddy's Established Response To Performing Public Penances
    - [X] Sacrifice Them To Manann: Set the things aflame, get some dockspace back, and offer a minor but appreciated appeasement to Manann. [Minor Appeasement/Maghda Approval]
    [X] Do the bare minimum penance an take no personal risk.
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[X] Plan Not Quite ALL the Way
 
Look -- everything we have heard in the update, and everything that torroar has said about Maghda... has confirmed for us that Maghda will not screw us over on this. Magdha's greatest priority is the people of Manann, of the coasts, of the sea. Those ships WILL be defending us.

Therefore, it becomes purely a question of: is Frederick willing to sacrifice the pride of the navy of Ostland to dedicate and give them up to Manann, in order to secure Ostland's defense and safety and even prosperity? And the answer to that is a resounding "yes." I truly, honestly, do not think that this aspect of the votes is "Choose a tradeoff of safety for your people." I genuinely do not think that.

Imagine it this way:

Imagine it was Magnus the Pious we were talking to. (Or Ar-Ulric Logan Kron, or the big-shot Cult of Morr guy, or whatever.) Do you think Magnus would screw us over on this? No. And neither would Maghda, I think.

With that said... There is an element of risk in this update. I acknowledge that. But, that element of risk... is in Freddy's personal safety.

So, let me offer a compromise vote of sorts. A compromise for something people are willing to do anyway, no, since the most popular decision(s) are the ones that include the second most dangerous Keelhauling option anyway, no?

With that said...
Stelarwand030 said:
  • Plan: All In, As Usual has us give all our Greatships to the Cult and do the most extreme Keelhauling option and the most dangerous. (Triton's Fury)
  • Plan Not Quite ALL the Way has us give three of our Greatships and do a lesser Keelhauling option, but not as dangerous. (Marvelous Maisel)
  • Plan Not all the Great Ships has us give two of our Greatships and do the most extreme Keelhauling option and the most dangerous. (Triton's Fury)
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Click to shrink...
Would people feel better if they had another option that had the Marvelous Maisel, but which gave all of our Greatships?

Listen. It is not a risk to our shore's safety. "But how is it a sacrifice still then, Garlak?" Because it is a sacrifice of pride and prestige; it is Frederick giving up the pride of the Ostland fleet and his dominion over it, to Manann.

But, conversely, this will do great things for morale and safety and reassurance for our people. Because, for probably the next decade or so, we'll probably have all 5 and at minimum I suspect/expect at least 3, ships defending Ostland specifically all the time anyway. And even after the decade is up and we have rebuilt multiple Greatships... those Manannite ships will still be defending the Sea of Claws anyway.


[X] Plan: Almost All In, But Less Personal Danger
[X] Sacrifice Them To Manann: Set the things aflame, get some dockspace back, and offer a minor but appreciated appeasement to Manann. [Minor Appeasement/Maghda Approval]
[X] The Greatships of Ostland: Sacrifice requires actual sacrifice. Wolfships are common vessels, and war galleys are meant for close coastal patrolling. You can rebuild later. Perhaps even with actual blessings and aid from the Cathedral, if you accept a bit of loss beforehand.
-[X] Give Them: It stings, yes, but you'll know that the Cult of Manann will not misuse them. It would literally be sacrilege to do so. They will be honored vessels, surely, given what they are they'll not just sit in dock doing nothing. It could, even, show them off to the rest of the Empire in a positive light given time. (Write-In How Many If Any/Which Greatships) [Major Appeasement/Approval For Each Ship]
-[X] Give all 5.
[X] Accept the Keelhauling: It will hurt. That's rather the point. The only thing to think about is how sever you want to be about it. This is less about appeasing the priests, and more about quieting the mob, the fury of the common flock....and some of the priests who are especially angry. Who wish punishment, regardless of the fact that very, very technically, you were legally in the right. (Choose Ship Choice From Below)
-[X] Marvelous Maisel: An extremely large supply ship, apparently used to confer certain supplies to Sea-Born vessels out on the ocean such as medicines that cannot be sourced out on the ocean. Has not been cleaned at all. [More Dangerous/Major Appeasement/Approval Gain]

I will be switching my vote back to "All in, as usual" eventually. (Or if it looks like this isn't getting any steam at all to it.)

But meanwhile, I wanted to present a compromise vote. To add in another plan into the top 3; making it a top 4 where half of the options are "less (personally) dangerous ones.
 
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VexMasterTyrant said:
Dude...Did you not read the QM's latest post? Do you really want to ignite the firestorm again?

If you don't like how other people pick their votes the don't talk about it.

Only post the vote that you are choosing and be done with all this stuff for the day. we don't need more headaches.
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He may not have noticed it since he was likely working on his own post. I didn't notice it when I posted earlier.

Looking at torroar's post now makes me more confident in my own vote of going All In.
 
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VexMasterTyrant said:
Dude...Did you not read the QM's latest post? Do you really want to ignite the firestorm again?

If you don't like how other people pick their votes the don't talk about it.

Only post the vote that you are choosing and be done with all this stuff for the day. we don't need more headaches.
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I did not, no. I was typing up my post. ((This has, hilariously, been the exact same pattern of all my posting for this topic! Always pages behind. Even though I caught the thread opening soon, I still wasn't able to get this post out soon.))

Even after I read torroar's post though, I think my post was still acceptable?

I tried to frame it as: "This is what I think the option is about, and this is what I think it means, and this is why I think you should vote for it."

I was literally... just... supporting my own views for the topic, and trying to argue for my own views.

If you want or feel strongly enough about it, I'll remove the "I implore you" parts of that post, as that can perhaps be interpreted as a "I'm telling you how to vote, mwahaha!" thing?

But all of my post was trying to explain my position and what I think the options mean, and trying to offer a compromise or... or... something!


[X] Plan: All In, As Usual
 
Fanhunter696 said:
Good, to know... I suppose that having Adira cast Barksing on Fred before Kneelhauling would not be allowed, (I mean it has not been explicitely forbidden, but I don´t know if the cult would allow it...)
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That will not be allowed.

Garlak said:
If you want or feel strongly enough about it, I'll remove the "I implore you" parts of that post, as that can perhaps be interpreted as a "I'm telling you how to vote, mwahaha!" thing?

But all of my post was trying to explain my position and what I think the options mean, and trying to offer a compromise or... or... something!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It's fine. There is no need to discuss the matter further.
 
@torroar are we supposed to be voting only, and not allowed to discuss or say anything at all? I hadn't quite gotten that impression (even after I read your latest post) so...

If that was meant to be a "Please just vote it out", then I'll spoiler most of my previous post or something, if that's what needs to be done?
 
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