Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism

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torroar said:
Shallyans dislike surgery, and general medical care, in favor of 'soothing the pain away', and due to their influence a lot of people distrust physicians in general despite the aid they can bring. They also canonized their version of Typhoid Mary as a SAINT, and follow Her teachings when dealing with plague situations, which from a modern standpoint is incredible horrific.
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JFC. There are times I really despise GW'S general lore-writing philosophy.
 
Is the current vote by plan? I am not quite familiar with this particular thread etiquette. I know its the default for province management stuff, but not sure about this particular case.
 
spudman said:
You got the wrong thing out of paying the tribute.

You will never satisfy everyone, yes. Adolf not forgiving us and Talabacland not particularly liking us was never in the cards after what happened. But going all in on recompense silenced the greatest amount of and most vocal critics. And those that remained either dialed it down or were considered too harsh by everyone else. That's only possible by going overboard with reconciliation rather than just 'good enough'.
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And every Greatship we give is a major appeasement in and of itself. With the older Greatships having more value as sacrifices due to being more storied(which is another reason why Oskar's Omen is the worst Greatship to sacrifice, the thing is less than two years old).

The absolute minimal cop-out of gestures would be to just burn the Ravenships and get hauled under the Blue Bunny. Donating all the Greatships would be more appropriate for if we wanted to dodge the keelhauling altogether.

And arguably, taking extreme measures is kinda how we got here. Some restraint could be good.
 
Acolyte said:
I understand your points. I am just willing to face economics and societal problems if I can avoid having Freddy suffer. It's deeply uncomfortable to read about and I give a lot more shit Freddy than some peasants near the shoar.

So, yes I agree manann is important big God. But I don't care about him making Freddy suffer.
I just care more for the characters you have created instead of nameless peasants.
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Well, you should have darn well led that way if you absolutely had to, instead of voting "tell Manaan to fuck off" and acting like a child in saying "no, I can vote how I want"
 
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Acolyte said:
I understand your points. I am just willing to face economics and societal problems if I can avoid having Freddy suffer. It's deeply uncomfortable to read about and I give a lot more shit Freddy than some peasants near the shoar.

So, yes I agree manann is important big God. But I don't care about him making Freddy suffer.
I just care more for the characters you have created instead of nameless peasants.

@torroar
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In case you didn't notice, the GM has left in frustration.

I hope you're proud of yourself.
 
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Qeqre said:
I do view it that way and actually considered writing in the additional sacrifice of 10 Galleys and 5 Wolf Ships before deciding against it(cue joke about me hating on Galleys).
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Well, if it's simply how you view it I don't think I can change that. But can I ask why? I don't recall any indication that Frederick would consider giving the ships to the cult attaching his kid's names to be a punishment or reflect poorly on them (the kids or the ships) in any way.


Qeqre said:
And every Greatship we give is a major appeasement in and of itself. With the older Greatships having more value as sacrifices due to being more storied(which is another reason why Oskar's Omen is the worst Greatship to sacrifice, the thing is less than two years old).

The absolute minimal cop-out of gestures would be to just burn the Ravenships and get hauled under the Blue Bunny. Donating all the Greatships would be more appropriate for if we wanted to dodge the keelhauling altogether.

And arguably, taking extreme measures is kinda how we got here. Some restraint could be good.
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That's fine if you're arguing 2 vs. 3 greatships.

My point is go all in. The highlighted part makes no sense to me as the two situations between extreme interrogation/execution and extreme reconciliation are entirely different. The exact opposite really.

We saw that extreme reconciliation paid off with Talabacland (an additional name, preventing a possible province-wide grudge lasting generations), we saw our audacity in taking the harshest possible punishment pay off in Zhufbar. Those aren't the same situations, of course, but they all involved reconciling. The principle of more goods/greater deeds=more approval still holds.
 
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Acolyte said:
I understand your points. I am just willing to face economics and societal problems if I can avoid having Freddy suffer. It's deeply uncomfortable to read about and I give a lot more shit Freddy than some peasants near the shoar.

So, yes I agree manann is important big God. But I don't care about him making Freddy suffer.
I just care more for the characters you have created instead of nameless peasants.

@torroar
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Then don't read and go the fuck away, this is warhammer bad shit happens and if you don't like it write your own.

I honestly don't know why Torroar doesn't just ignore you and go about his business along with everyone else in the thread.
 
you just made the GM walk away from the quest for the whole day or week.
you guys realize this is the kind of thing that makes quests end right?
stop discussing this the GM has already told you to stop so fucking stop.
 
[X] Plan Not all the Great Ships

The sheer balls on this woman, threatening Ostland and Fredy with economic ruin because of a minor, singular over reaction to their nation wide organised terrorist attack which they haven't even paid reparations for.

But whatever, if she can pressure Fredy using her followers as a cudgel he can do the same. By taking the highest personal risk and publicly undergoing extreme penance he can effectively force her into using Ostlands ships in Ostland, as failing to respect his show of faith would undermine her and her cults position as leaders of Manaans faith.

That's the danger of relying on religious arguments, when the other side can make a comparable religious claim you have a very hard time saying no.
 
qwolfs said:
[X] Plan Not all the Great Ships

The sheer balls on this woman, threatening Ostland and Fredy with economic ruin because of a minor, singular over reaction to their nation wide organised terrorist attack which they haven't even paid reparations for.

But whatever, if she can pressure Fredy using her followers as a cudgel he can do the same. By taking the highest personal risk and publicly undergoing extreme penance he can effectively force her into using Ostlands ships in Ostland, as failing to respect his show of faith would undermine her and her cults position as leaders of Manaans faith.

That's the danger of relying on religious arguments, when the other side can make a comparable religious claim you have a very hard time saying no.
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OH FOR FUCKS SAKE!!!!!
 
spudman said:
See the above quote from the update for the keelhauling options. Almost certainly fatal if we didn't have ways to heal ourselves...which we do have and Maghda is aware of us having (specifically confirming those).

Nothing about Maghda suggesting one ship over the other.




Fair enough. But I think my point stands that these are not Frederick's kids or their good names. They're ships. They were built to defend Ostland with his wealth and are a symbol of his pride as Elector Count and what he's done with Ostland's navy.

Giving them over to the cult does not remove them from defending Ostland/the Empire, Maghda wouldn't allow that. It also doesn't remove prestige from the ships. It actually gives them a chance at greater prestige in the wider world as working for the Cult of Manann. But it's still an important sacrifice and show of humility on Fredericks' part personally. That's what is key here. All while having those ships continue to do what they were actually built to do.




You got the wrong thing out of paying the tribute.

You will never satisfy everyone, yes. Adolf not forgiving us and Talabacland not particularly liking us was never in the cards after what happened. But going all in on recompense silenced the greatest amount of and most vocal critics. And those that remained either dialed it down or were considered too harsh by everyone else. That's only possible by going overboard with reconciliation rather than just 'good enough'.



I think you're focusing on the wrong part of that situation.

You will never satisfy every single person, yes. Adolf not forgiving us was never in the cards after what happened. But going all in on recompense silenced the greatest amount of and the most vocal critics. And those that remained either dialed it down or were considered too harsh by everyone else. That's only possible by going overboard with reconciliation rather than just 'good enough'.
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I think that I voted for an earlier version of the plan.

When I voted for it, it appeared to include the maximum of everything except that it only gave up 2/5 great ships.

Since the Matriarch seemed to imply that doing the max keel-healing would be enough on its own, the extra stuff seemed like the "over the top element" that should silence everyone we need to as much as we can hope to.

Since it seems that the keel-healing has been dialed back, I'll probably need to pick a different plan. I'll wait till later to do it though, since I get the feeling a lot of plans are going to fluctuate.

So long as it's nothing crazy, like making up conditions that the Matriarch didn't even suggest, in order to make it worse, I think it's been pretty thoroughly demonstrated that Frederich can take the pain of the max keel-healing.

The reason that keel-healing would be absolutely lethal in our world, is that they were guaranteed to get killed by infection, or drowned. Infection isn't going to happen because magic, and drowning isn't going to happen either, because the matriarch isn't interested in a war with Ostland. She would be acting against her stated (be GM and in character) intensions if she didn't make sure we didn't get drowned by some fanatic's dawdling.

When you get down to it, it's not all that much worse than needing to flense out our own throat and mouth in order to get our sense of taste back after guzzling used engine geese.
 
qwolfs said:
The sheer balls on this woman, threatening Ostland and Fredy with economic ruin because of a minor, singular over reaction to their nation wide organised terrorist attack which they haven't even paid reparations for.

But whatever, if she can pressure Fredy using her followers as a cudgel he can do the same. By taking the highest personal risk and publicly undergoing extreme penance he can effectively force her into using Ostlands ships in Ostland, as failing to respect his show of faith would undermine her and her cults position as leaders of Manaans faith.

That's the danger of relying on religious arguments, when the other side can make a comparable religious claim you have a very hard time saying no.
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Dude, torroar just explained the issue and has left for a week or so over the frustration.

Maghda isn't threatening to do anything. Manann is very much real and is very much pissed off. The reason why people are voting is that the very superstitious sailors will flat out refuse to do anything that could piss off Manann even further, that being sailing to and from Ostland while Freddy has yet to make amends with Manann.

Maghda wants this shit over with. She understands why Freddy stock the Witch Hunters on them, though she very much disagrees with the decision.

The mods have come in the thread over this exact issue before, could we just tone this down?
 
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I really wish plan Not Quite all the way didn't give away Oskar's Omen. Shouldn't two Greatships be enough?
 
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